Topic awaiting preservation: The existence of God.... (Page 5 of 5)

If it is a generalized statement and you take it personaly, it must apply to you.

N'est pas?

There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
Oscar Levant
(1906 - 1972)

Ehtheist: It's " N'est ce pas ? "

again, not so much. more just noting the width of your really big brush

chris


KAIROSinteractive | tangent oriented

Poi, in propre French no doubt, in Quebecois the 'ce' has pretty much been done away with phonetically.

My French is gutter Qebecois and long out of use, so please forgive any errors.

Well Fig, if it didn't hit close to home, it seems to me you wouldn't have noticed it or would have simply ignored it.

There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
Oscar Levant
(1906 - 1972)

Really ? That's always funny to see how French Quebecois has evolved separately of the French talked in the hexagon.

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Well Fig, if it didn't hit close to home, it seems to me you wouldn't have noticed it or would have simply ignored it.

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Or it's simply a matter, as Fig has mpretty much stated, of pointing out the fact that your broad generalization is inaccurate and simply doesn't apply to a lot of people.

Having had my views summed up and stuck to me as an atheist, by many an ignorant christian, I can see Fig's pointof view very easily.

It's not a matter of striking a nerve because you're right, it's a matter of annoyance at being summed up in a stereotypcial and shallow manner.

While your statement certainly applies to some, the basic point is there is a great variance in the realm of christian views, and plenty of reigious people who don't fit your nice neat little mold.

The trend you have displayed throughout many of these threads is rather troubling.

You can't knock one isde, and then behave in the same shallow, narrow minded, generalizing manner that you are knocking...

I agree with a lot of the things you say, but you lose so much ground when you do these kinds of things.

nicely summed up DL, thanks.

chris


KAIROSinteractive | tangent oriented

I must say that I agree with DL on this one, as well. It is one thing, to weight the facts and to make a decision. It is another, to behave as those you have labeled as not doing so.

Some of those that have been the brunt of this are deserving of this, of course. But others are not. And bunching them all under one blanket is not what I would call a very rational or logical approach.

Just my $.02 on it.

Have it your way, I disagree and stand by what I said.

Poi, Quebecois is French, merely a patois, though there are many who try to speak in the European manner. More interesting yet and the bane of he purists, is "Franglish".

English words, adapted to Quebecois pronunciation, or sometime just plunked down in the middle of a french sentence. This is merely short-hand because French, being one of the a linguistically "dead" languages must rely heavily on compound words to express new concepts. As compound words can be a pain to pronounce and may not convey the meaning precisely the word from the originating language is often used instead.

Makes for a very colourful conversation.

There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
Oscar Levant
(1906 - 1972)

An example might be something like. '..sacrayblu nome de chevrolet coupe wee wee manure bad smell.'


Back to your regular...bla bla... =)

(Edited by NoJive on 03-12-2005 07:14)

That's cool! This bla bla is also quite good

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Very droll Nojive, very droll indeed.

Some quotes for the faithful to mull over;

"All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant, useful to the politician, and ridiculous to the philosopher." -- Lucretius, Roman Poet (94 - 55 BCE)

The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ. Thomas Jefferson."

There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
Oscar Levant
(1906 - 1972)

Religion can, and has, been used in those ways, alas I am extremely troubled by how the great religions of this world have been used for evil purposes. But it does not logically follow that all religion is therefore based in myth and lies. I would recommend taking a look at "When Religion Becomes Evil" by Charles Kimball. I've got the book and scanned it but haven't read cover to cover yet.

Thomas Jefferson was a believer. It is quite true he did not accept orthodox Christianity but he most certainly believed in God. I would be very interested to know what you think about that. Do you regard him in the same light as the "religious" you rail against so strongly?

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(Edited by Bugimus on 03-13-2005 16:56)

Right, Bugs. It can be and it has been and all religions are not equal. To be blunt, the basis of the religion is unimportant however.

Look at it this way. Even if a religion is based on the truth, it can be and probably already has been, used in the same ways that other religions distort their histories to suit their wants. Religion is a man based institution and is subject to man's flaws, of which there are many but one typically stands out --> Greed. I don't find it at all surprising that the views of the church today are of a greedy, power hungry institution. I see that as humankinds biggest flaw. The fact that Greed is reflected within the actions of many religions only reinforces my belief that religion isn't a fitting arena to learn faith. To practice it... perhaps, but certainly not to learn it.

GD

I completely agree that even if particular religion were true, it can be perveted and abused by humans.

Faith that is not practiced is not faith at all. Therein lies the rub

This world is imperfect and faith practices here will also be imperfect. I don't see any way around that. So that leaves two choices. Either we keep faith a purely theoretical abstract in our minds or we do our best to implement its precepts knowing full well it cannot be done perfectly but believing that trying is better than doing nothing. I love this quote about walking that line:

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Longing for the ideal while criticizing the real is evidence of immaturity. On the other hand, settling for the real without striving for the ideal is complacency. Maturity is living with the tension.

--Rick Warren

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I prefer "walk it like you talk it", and it applies to all walks of life, IMHO, not just faith and/or religion.

I believe I read somewhere Jefferson was a deist;

"The word "Deism" is derived from the Latin word for God: "Deus." Deism involves the belief in the existence of God, on purely rational grounds, without any reliance on revealed religion or religious authority.

Deists:

Do not accept the belief of most religions that God revealed himself to humanity through the writings of the Bible, the Qur'an or other religious texts.
Disagree with strong Atheists who assert that there is no evidence of the existence of God.

They regard their faith as a natural religion, as contrasted with one that is revealed by a God or which is artificially created by humans. They reason that since everything that exists has had a creator, then the universe itself must have been created by God. Thomas Paine concluded a speech shortly after the French Revolution with: "God is the power of first cause, nature is the law, and matter is the subject acted upon."

http://www.teachingaboutreligion.com/Freethought/deists.htm

I approve of the deist rejection of religion, but disagree with their belief there once was a god.

As for Jefferson, his comment is as valid today as it was then. Benny Hinn is living proof, one of many.

Other than liking the quote, I have no opinion of him.

There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
Oscar Levant
(1906 - 1972)

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They reason that since everything that exists has had a creator, then the universe itself must have been created by God.

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The first part of that statement hasn't been proven, therefore it doesn't support the second part of that statement.

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I approve of the deist rejection of religion, but disagree with their belief there once was a god.

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Um, I would assume that most deists would believe that there still is a god.

I think that definition of God varies from deist to deist, since there are no standards on what their beliefs are based upon, or anything to support and back up their beliefs (such as scripture etc)

Based on the link Etheist provided, one could argue that deist are in no way men of faith. Since they do not seem to hold faith in anything, not even deity who supposedly for them set the universe in motion.

They rather act based upon the natural and rational law and seem to reject any form of superstition....

I dunno just my 2 cents

Yer right Biggl, the didn't reason that one out did they?

Can't help but agree Ruski

There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
Oscar Levant
(1906 - 1972)

From my recollection (which may be faulty), though there were those among the revolutionary americans who were deists (Thomas Paine comes to mind as a prominent example), Jefferson himself was decidedly christian (like many of his southern brethren).

He has some of my favorite quotes, but unfortunately was also very dragged down by the hypocrisy of his surroundings, of which he indulged himself plenty. His 'notes on virginia' (don't recall the exact title) bring out some views, particularly in the area of race, that most modern fans prefer to ignore...