Topic awaiting preservation: About J2EE (Page 1 of 1)

well I'm looking for quality information on the subject of J2EE application and how practical the practice of this programming is for web development .. any type of quality links or first hand experience anyone has or shares is most appreciated .. even any recommended books to read (and if free to DL, would be appreciated greatly)

any in case thanks in advance to any that share their knowledge with me


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I've heard a few people say Java is a good first programming language to learn. I don't really agree...I mean they're probably just spitting out what their silly college instructor told them when he made them learn Java, but anyways, that's just programming languages in general, not web development.

What exactly would you use it for (in web development)?

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I've heard a few people say Java is a good first programming language to learn. I don't really agree...I mean they're probably just spitting out what their silly college instructor told them when he made them learn Java, but anyways, that's just programming languages in general, not web development.

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Yeah, and I've heard someone in this thread say Java isn't a good first programming language, but, like his uninformed, unskilled friends who told him everything he knows about the language, he's just a moron who's taken no actual time to evaluate the technologies before making himself sound informed.

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What exactly would you use it for (in web development)?

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You obviously haven't the faintest clue as to what you're talking about. What would you use Java for in web development? Good god, man.

Go for J2EE if you're serious about dynamic web content and building scalable business solutions. In Java is where the real money lies.

Before you take on something like Servlets, Enterprise JavaBeans, and Java ServerPages, you'll need to learn the Java programming language. If you've had programming experience, learning Java isn't hard at all. If you're new to programming entirely, it's going to take serious dedication. It's taken me about a year to get to a point when I'm never limited by a lack of understanding of the language-- To where if I can think it, I can code it.

Go with Java if you're serious about web development. J2EE, as I mentioned before, is an excellent path to a big corporation's IT department managing the complex internals of complicated web sites. I'm not taking about sites like OzoneAsylum, but things like www.half.com , http://ed.gov , http://delta.com , http://mastercard.com , http://nyc.gov , http://bestbuy.com , http://circuitcity.com , etc.

Go buy some books on the language. Read Java programmers' blogs. Connect with the community. I've never regretted one single second of time I spent learning the language.

If you're just a casual web designer, I'd stick with a LAMP setup (Linux-Apache-MySQL-PHP). PHP is great, easy to learn, sophisticated where it needs it, and best of all, open source.

Most importantly of all though, regardless of the route you take, be sure to learn everything you can about XHTML, CSS, and web standards. These are universal and paramount to every web designer.

(Edited by Jicksta on 06-05-2005 08:17)

(Edited by Jicksta on 06-05-2005 08:18)

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Jicksta said:

Yeah, and I've heard someone in this thread say Java isn't a good first programming language, but, like his uninformed, unskilled friends who told him everything he knows about the language, he's just a moron who's taken no actual time to evaluate the technologies before making himself sound informed.

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Paid a lot for college, did we? (j/k)

So, I claim that what someone (a professor) says is probably not based on immense knowledge and you then suggest that I listen to what average people say instead? Doesn't make sense to me, but anyways...

I am a great egotist and I rely very little on anyone - I do my own homework. I have "evaluated" many programming languages and voiced my opinion on Java. He asked for advice on "how practical the practice of this" (Java) is, and I gave it. Drink less coffee (or more, perhaps).

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Jicksta said:

You obviously haven't the faintest clue as to what you're talking about. What would you use Java for in web development? Good god, man.

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Java is not the only tool for web development and certainly is not the best suited for every possible aspect of it...and he did not specify what aspects of web development he's considered this for, so I asked him. Get a grip?

It's interesting to note that you apparently share my curiousity:

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Jicksta said:

If you're just a casual web designer, I'd stick with a LAMP setup(Linux-Apache-MySQL-PHP). PHP is great, easy to learn, sophisticated where it needs it, and best of all, open source.

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I do my own homework. I have "evaluated" many programming languages and voiced my opinion on Java.

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So, let me get this straight. You've "evaluated" many programming languages, and the only opinion-wise advice you gave about Java is,

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I've heard a few people say Java is a good first programming language to learn. I don't really agree...

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I'd love to read a thesis paper you've written. "Yeah, Beowulf was a cool guy. The poem was long. Some people wouldn't like its length."

You definition of evaluation seems at best synonymous with "glanced at."

Moving on,

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He asked for advice on "how practical the practice of this" (Java) is, and I gave it.

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Pardon me again, but I'm afraid I don't quite understand. He asked for how practical Java is for web development, and you claim you gave it. My eyes may be deceiving me, but the only thing I see in your original post is

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I've heard a few people say Java is a good first programming language to learn. I don't really agree...I mean they're probably just spitting out what their silly college instructor told them when he made them learn Java, but anyways, that's just programming languages in general, not web development.

What exactly would you use it for (in web development)?

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Sorry, but no where in that post do I see insight for how practical Java is for web development. Granted, my eyes may be playing tricks on me. Surely within your original post lies great insight and tactful rhetoric. I'm just missing it. That's all.

We've turned this thread into a flamewar. Now, my advice to you Reisio: don't give Java advice to anyone. If you know something fluently, more power to you to help others, but don't talk about crap you've never even looked into.

I'm through.

Wow.

Take it easy, buddy.

You're in a safe place...

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We've turned this thread into a flamewar.

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Let the record state that the only actual flaming going on here has come from you.
I suggest you take a deep breath before your head pops off....

Opinions are like assholes....we all got one. don't let someone else's turn your world upside down...

I have a job now, and all we use it Java, for web development.

I'll admit that if you want to write a short script, or a short page Java isn't your canidate, but if your going to write a huge internationalized web-application, working with several other developers (and making money) it's probably your best bet, unless maybe your thinking about .net. I haven't really worked enough with .net to know enough to say anything about it, but when I did work with it in school it seemed imflexible, like you didn't have alot of control over the output, since Microsoft pretty much has most of that encapsulated. This could be because Microsoft encapsulated most of the code or because I didn't really go deep enough into learning it. But Java seems to give you alot more freedom (sorta like PHP) in designing what the output of the page will look like.

And anyone who thinks Java is a dumb way of doing things hasn't delved into the language deep enough to find out its capabilities.

Flame on my friends....

Maskkkk

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Maskkkk said:

I'll admit that if you want to write a short script, or a short page Java isn't your canidate, but if your going to write a huge
internationalized web-application, working with several other developers (and making money) it's probably your best bet, unless maybe your thinking about .net.

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...or Perl or Python or Ruby or C or C++ etc..

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Maskkkk said:

And anyone who thinks Java is a dumb way of doing things hasn't delved into the language deep enough to find out its capabilities.

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I said I didn't really agree that it's a good first programming language to learn (which is not to say it's necessarily a bad one, I just think there are more appropriate ones to cover first).

Personally, I found Java was a nice and simple introduction to programming. Since then I've learned several other languages, and I still prefer Java.

Every tool has its purpose, sometimes mutliple tools are capable of doing the same task, in which case it's simply a matter of preference/convenience.

It's pointless to argue about which languages are better for which tasks because they all have their pros and cons. Like I said before, it's a matter of preference.

Reisio, the five solutions you suggested, Perl, Python, Ruby, C, and C++ are all CGI.

When a request come in to the web server, the appropriate file on the filesystem is found, loaded into memory, executed, then destroyed. When you're building "a huge internationalized web-application" (to quote Maskkkk), you'll end up with a webserver and database completely bogged down from the CGI overhead. Every single one of your suggestions are in fact worse than PHP for web content with the exception of Ruby, in which case the Ruby on Rails platform outperforms Apache's mod_php in most aspects.

J2EE is hands-down the fastest server of dynamic content. Why? Because every program, including the JRE, is kept in memory. When a request comes in, the Servlet container just passes the parameters to the HttpServlet's appropriate method and it is invoked immediately. It's hard to beat that speed.

The fact that you even suggested Python, C, and C++ for making "huge internationalized web-applications" just goes to show you're just spitting sh** out with no basis for your opinions.

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...I just think there are more appropriate ones to cover first

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More appropriate languages to cover first? Do enlighten us Reisio on your opinions of what makes a particular language a more appropriate choice to learn first and, furthermore, what that language is you ambiguously refer to.

Jesus Christ, Jicksta - everyone is entilted to their own opinion. Just because someone disagrees with what you think doesn't mean you have to personally attack them everytime they make a suggestion.

We here at the Asylym don't stand for attitudes like that.

Refute reisio's suggestions all you want but leave your insults at the door please.