Topic awaiting preservation: Gorillas are smart, too!

Gorillas Observed Using Tools in the Wild I just thought this was neat...

Great stuff!

Oh, but they are acting like humans! They aren't animals at all!

Very cool.

Indeed... and they're vegetarians too

: . . DHTML Slice Puzzle : . . .

Great Galloping Galapagos! They are evolving!

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

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Indeed... and they're vegetarians too

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Don't worry Bugimus, soon they will be hunting for tigers

Well I don't know if I'm going for it ...lookin' long'n hard at a coupole of those pics I'd be hard pressed to say it ain't my great aunt hester.

The only question now is which company will be the first to market an SUV tailored specifically to their lifestyle?

If gorrilas were to evolve, what would they become? Would they lose strength and hair and look more similar to us, or would they keep their atributes and just gain intelligence? If that's the case, we need to try to not kill Caesar.

I think it would be neat to have a conversation with a gorrila. I like tigers more, but they would just want to be left alone.

"For reason is a property of God's...moreover, there is nothing He does not wish to be investigated and understood by reason." ~Tertullian de paenitentia Carthaginian Historian 2nd century AD

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If gorrilas were to evolve, what would they become? Would they lose strength and hair and look more similar to us, or would they keep their atributes and just gain intelligence?

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That would depend on how they evolved further - that could include both, or something entirely different, depending on the circumstances.

James; wait and see.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

People please! Let's not get carried away with evolutionary possibilities, based on simple rudimentary, stick, skills.

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

Why not? They show better stick work than the nhl and nobody has suggested they are evolved beyond simple brutish animals.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

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Why not? They show better stick work than the nhl,..................

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This attempt at a joke, for me falls flat!

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and nobody has suggested they are evolved beyond simple brutish animals.

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I just want to hopefully stem the tide of potential, illogical possibilities.

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

Zynx+Diogenes: In case you missed it, James02 = Gideon, which explains the somewhat lack of understanding of evolution in his post ( where he seems to say that evolution tends to a single shape/phenotype : ours )

And for the record, one person made a statement about the potential "evolutionary possiblities".
It's rather rude to refer to the "people" in this thread based on one person's misguided statement.

FWIW.

=)

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If gorillas were to evolve, what would they become? Would they lose strength and hair and look more similar to us, or would they keep their atributes and just gain intelligence? That would depend on how they evolved further - that could include both, or something entirely different, depending on the circumstances.

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If if if if. What a way to run a "hypothetic" railroad.

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

Ok...we pretty much covered that. where are you going with it...?

Yup, you got me confused, as well. Just what are you asking/trying to say

And by the way, "hypothetic" is not a word. You can at least use real words, they work perfectly well.

DL - Hypothetical postulations, are silly questions, when one uses them in a debate.

WS - Sorry. What if, what if, what if, doesn't work well in a debate.

BRG - While I appreciate your attempt at constructive criticism, I also see it as being a bit anal.

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

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Zynx said:

DL - Hypothetical postulations, are silly questions, when one uses them in a debate.

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Well no shit.
Again - we covered that. And as I stated above, that was one person, who clearly went off on his own tangent. And yet you seem to want to address the rest of us based on his post.

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Zynx said:

WS - Sorry. What if, what if, what if, doesn't work well in a debate.

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Ok. See above. You seem to be very confused as to who you are talking to.
You are aware that all the different posts here, with different names, are actually different people.......right?

Where exactly do see a debate here, for starters?

And where do you see WS using "what if, what if, what if" to further his side of this "debate"?

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BRG - While I appreciate your attempt at constructive criticism, I also see it as being a bit anal.

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That's probably because I am a bit anal. And my statement stands.

Errr...my response was to an If postulation from James02 (who was also Gideon).

I don't see any "ifs" in my reply

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In case you missed it, James02 = Gideon,

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Sorry DL, WS, I didn't take this post as serious as I should.

Many other sites prohibit multiple usernames.

Why is it Ok here?

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

Well, I don't see how we could possibly enforce a limit on user names.

He used one name...and then for whatever reason decided to change it.

However, that's totally irrelevant.
While you may not have realized James = Gideon, you should be entirely capable of realizing James != DL-44, and James != Webshaman.

Who James actually is has nothing to do with the fact that *he* made the statement you seem to have a problem with, not the rest of us.

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Well, I don't see how we could possibly enforce a limit on user names. He used one name...and then for whatever reason decided to change it.

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DL, simplier versions of OZONE-Like, websites have been around for years! Throughout my college years, they were a norm. I used them as much as I could. In today's age, not only is it normal to have ONE username, it's a simple accomplishment, and quite easy to enforce.

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However, that's totally irrelevant.

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Sorry chum, but I find it very, very relevant. It makes no sense to respond honestly, when multiple responses come from singular individuals.

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While you may not have realized James = Gideon, you should be entirely capable of realizing James != DL-44, and James != Webshaman.

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Capability has nothing to do with it, DL. It's the stupid allowance of multiple usernames for 1 person, that I find unrealistic, and confusing.

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Who James actually is has nothing to do with the fact that *he* made the statement you seem to have a problem with, not the rest of us.

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Respect given DL, but yes it does! My responses are ALL ME! I am not hiding behind another persona! I am not trying to confuse other OZONE posters! I am not trying to be something I am not! No matter how people perceive me, I will always B MYSELF!

(Edited by Zynx on 10-17-2005 05:41)

Errrr...

I know of no websites that try to "enforce" that one has one username. I have membership in a number of forums across the net, and on some, I do have multiple "personalities" - so what are you talking about

Gideon decided that he would be himself, in case you missed that. That was his stated reason for the "personality" change.

And I still don't see how that could in any way, shape, or form, be an explaination for confusing james02 for me, or for DL, for that matter.

I am on a couple of sites where 'cloning' is prohibited. This is because there are a couple of trolls frequenting them with the sole intent of being as disruptive as possible.

In Gid defense, I believe he did announce the name change as did I when, for some reason the server suddenly refused to recognize "Ehteist".

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

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Zynx said:

Respect given DL, but yes it does! My responses are ALL ME! I am not hiding behind another persona! I am not trying to confuse other OZONE posters! I am not trying to be something I am not! No matter how people perceive me, I will always B MYSELF!

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What planet are you on here buddy??

Read carefully:

The issue at hand is the fact that you are taking one person's response and acting as if all of us said it.

The issue you brought up is that Gideon changed his name.

The two have nothing to do with each other.

It is also important to note that "james" is not hiding behind different names. He hit a certian point and decided to change his name. He announced this change. I don't see anything there that is dishonest, harmful, or anything else.
All of his posts in this thread are under the same name.

It is also TOTALLY IRELLEVENT in regard to the discussion at hand.

The point is very simple: you spent several posts trying to attack a statement that was made by one person, but addressing your posts to other people. That has nothing to do with the fact that someone changed usernames at some point before this thread ever started.

http://eldwood.com/zynx/index.php

I think all his dots have been popped.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

woohoo! it's "mass shock therapy" time.



(Edited by poi on 10-17-2005 18:25)

Thank God (or whomever you'd like to thank) for Poi! The Inmates are going crazy these days, i mean seriously since when was verbal diarrhea a big deal in the Asylum!? Y'all need to chill instead of waiting for the next victim to attack.

I only hope Master Suho makes it in time...

I quoted James02, and posted. That?s all it was DL, a simple post about disagreeing with his assessment. I was not trying to start a new debate. I was merely commenting on it. And no I was not confused on who I was talking to.

I responded to you, and WS, by using another way to describe what I meant when I disagreed with James.
1) DL - Hypothetical postulations, are silly questions, when one uses them in a debate.
2) WS - Sorry. What if, what if, what if, doesn't work well in a debate.
These are 2 similar descriptions to my original post; If if if if. What a way to run a "hypothetic" railroad. They are not a new line of questioning, or a new debate. This is why I say things like you sound like a broken record. What do you mean by THAT? Well what do you mean BY that? Well what do you mean BY THAT!?

Then I quoted, and posted on POI?s post. Here it was a second line of thought. It was a different debate. I didn't take it serioulsy in the beginning, because I am not use to this parameter here at Ozone. But I was not attempting to make a connection between the idea of a post I disagreed with, and a person changing his username. Honestly. Maybe after years and years of dealing with multiple usernames, behind one person, you can't see when a person is being direct and straightforward with you.

You also bring up, ?the rest of us?. I do post with some small expectation of people to read my post(s), but they either do or they don?t. And if I wanted the ?rest of us? to respond, I?d directly ASK the ?rest of us?. But I never did!

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It is also important to note that "james" is not hiding behind different names. He hit a certain point and decided to change his name. He announced this change. I don't see anything there that is dishonest, harmful, or anything else.

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I have generally mentioned that people with multiple usernames are hiding from something, but I never mentioned anything about dishonestly, or harmful, or anything at all, specifically about the persona of James/Gideon.

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The point is very simple: you spent several posts trying to attack a statement that was made by one person, but addressing your posts to other people.

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I did nothing of the sort. Clearly all I posted were colorful comments against a posters post. So if someone wanted to comment, then they could have. But I never ever directly asked, nor addressed the ?rest of us?. And what you call an attack, I call a disagreement. It?s like you are pitting me against another poster, in an attempt to stir up the shit. Why? If J.G. thinks I was attacking him, as evil as you are portraying it, then let him speak for himself.

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That has nothing to do with the fact that someone changed usernames at some point before this thread ever started.

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Here you are right. But again, I never attempted to make that connection. You seem to think that I did. I know I didn't. And even when you incorrectly perceived it that way, you assumed it was intentional. Why? Why would anyone intentionally do such a thing? Here again it seems that YOU are intentionally stiring the shit.



As for multiple usernames from one person, simply put I don?t like the idea of communicating with multiple ?SYBILS?! Unless you can give me a good reason to have more than one username, that a single username would not accomplish? And there are sites that prohibit it. The owner basically deletes any extra usernames coming from the same server IP address. But if Ozone allows it, then I must deal with, which I can.

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

Ok.

Are gorillas smart enough to change their user names?

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I am on a couple of sites where 'cloning' is prohibited. This is because there are a couple of trolls frequenting them with the sole intent of being as disruptive as possible.

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Errr...no-one can cancel an account, and start over on those websites? And how do they prevent this

How many Gorillas does it take to change a user name?

Don't know about that, but it takes one monkey to mess everything up

The Simian Council will hear of this, "monkey in the machine" business.

and the monkey pushes the button. Bzzzt.

I am sorry that my name change has caused such confusion. I was sick of hiding behind a different name, and I will not use Gideon anymore to post.

In response to Zynx trying to get something from my post, I was just having fun postulating a planet of the apes and thinking of what it would be like. As DL said, a tangent.

"For reason is a property of God's...moreover, there is nothing He does not wish to be investigated and understood by reason." ~Tertullian de paenitentia Carthaginian Historian 2nd century AD

I really don't like that type of reason for a name change, Gid. The idea of "hiding" behind a username is very odd. We are all conversing with one another via a medium which allows a great deal of built in "hiding". Whether you are Gideon to us or James02 makes little difference in how we regard your words and ideas here.

I personally would have very much preferred to continue to address you as Gideon while knowing full well that your real name is James.

You will quite often see people address me as Bugs around here. My real name is Harvey, but I hate being called that. I prefer to be known on the internet as Bugimus but my close friends and family call me Buggy. And through all of this I have never felt as though I'm hiding behind anything at all. This is just how I personally view this matter, FWIW.

: . . DHTML Slice Puzzle : . . .

You mean DL-44's real name isn't DL-44?

Now I am totally disillusioned!




(Edited by briggl on 10-19-2005 01:29)

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My real name is Harvey

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Well that explains the ears.

I do know of sites that take a hard stance to keep people from using more than one username. I tried it on such sites, in order to try and re-start my entrance,...............................................in an attempt to start fresh. They wouldn't allow it. Honestly,........................................................I was trying to hide from an earlier entrance, in which I was vilified by many of the MOD's, and attacked by many of the commoners. Just like here at Ozone.




This was one of my better moments. With a few changes in the name of the website.
For me the recent bashing of bashers bashing bashers just shows that people have OZONE in their lives. If someone's boss complains to them we hear it. If somone had a great day and wanted to explain it we hear it. If someone was feeling angry or hurt or mad or insane or loved or destoyed or guilty or innocent we hear it.

This shows me that many here feel comfortable enough with OZONE to include us in THEIR lives. It is a rare gem we call OZONE that lets us see into the heart and soul of other people. People we might have never met let alone talked to. It's my hope, that site's like OZONE will actually help bring the world closer to understanding each other and to have compassion for one another on this spinning ball we call earth.

Problems along that path are inevitable. They are almost expected of us in order for us to work out our differences. How else can we fix it if no one mentions it? If OZONE is a place for any ONE idea? Then it is a global one. Try and look upon OZONE as more than a community. More than a social experiment. Try thinking of OZONE as a fellow man or woman.

Are we all going to get along? Nope. Are some of us going to be nicer than others? Yep. Will others feel the slings and arrows of others and leave OZONE, as if it were on fire? Yep. Can we stop that? Don't know. Should we stop that? Don't know. I do know that I am a willing participant on a post-it website that many others have misunderstood my remarks. Slammed my remarks. And even gave praise of my remarks.

I am not angel on OZONE, and in much of my life. I care little about what should be cared about. I care not to be told what to do. How to do it. When to do it. Or who to do it to. I'm on my own when I come here and I'm on my own in my remarks. I have only me to answer to. And sometimes I even question myself.

I come here to learn.




Lastly I'd like to again ask this question:
Give me one good reason to have more than one username, that a single username would not accomplish?

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

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Zynx said:

Lastly I'd like to again ask this question:
Give me one good reason to have more than one username, that a single username would not accomplish?

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I think you are confusing the issue.
It's not that a choice was made to allow people to have multiple user names.
There is no real way to truly enforce the idea of a person having only one user name.

It's not logistically possible.
If you can explain to me a method by which a site could enforce each person having only one username, I'm all ears.

Aside form that - who cares?
We've had issues here in the past where someone using multiple usernames went to a lot of trouble to be an ass with the multiple names. It is usually immediately apparent in such cases. In cases where it is not, it can hardly said to be truly problematic.

In a case such as James here, it is truly irrelevant. He decided to change his name, and he announced it. It has happened many times in the past, and has never had any negative effect whatsoever.

So why attempt dedicating resources to something that is not causing any harm, and cannot be truly enforced anyway?

^ Amen.

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Zynx said:
Lastly I'd like to again ask this question:Give me one good reason to have more than one username, that a single username would not accomplish?

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It's always good to have an extra username or two, for special occasions...

*waits patiently for GOD to turn up*



Ok, i'm going to press the post button, before i make reference to gorillas using certain asylum inmates in the wild...



(Edited by reitsma on 10-19-2005 07:17)

*scratches underarm, then head*

I have no clue, as to who you could be talking about...

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NoJive said:

Well that explains the ears.

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Both my real name and my nickname match those of fictional rabbits. Coincidence?

: . . DHTML Slice Puzzle : . . .

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Coincidence?

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Surely not. Must be devine intervention.

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Lastly I'd like to again ask this question: Give me one good reason to have more than one username, that a single username would not accomplish?

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I think you are confusing the issue.It's not that a choice was made to allow people to have multiple user names.There is no real way to truly enforce the idea of a person having only one user name. It's not logistically possible.If you can explain to me a method by which a site could enforce each person having only one username, I'm all ears.Aside form that - who cares?We've had issues here in the past where someone using multiple usernames went to a lot of trouble to be an ass with the multiple names. It is usually immediately apparent in such cases. In cases where it is not, it can hardly said to be truly problematic.In a case such as James here, it is truly irrelevant. He decided to change his name, and he announced it. It has happened many times in the past, and has never had any negative effect whatsoever.

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Lastly I'd like to again ask this question: Give me one good reason to have more than one username, that a single username would not accomplish?

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

Time to drop it Zynx.

whatever, zynx.

Simple logic and reading comprehension will answer your question, even though I did not adhere to the manner in which you wanted your answer.

Ok, the one good reason to want another username?

Because.

Another site I post on explained that it was a simple rule from the founder, to keep things simple. There they have mods who can see their IP address, who can then cut 'em off. I think It was mentioned that here "we police our own". No problem.


I'm not trying to start a brushfire here for change. My connection went down, so my last post looks funny. But if the only good reason is "because",.........................................................then I guess that's that.

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

The "good reason" has nothing to do with "because".

Please re-read my post until you are clear on that.

There are many problems with using IP address to ban/limit members. First and foremost: many people have internet access that does not provide a static IP address. If you get into blocking rangers, then you risk punishing anyone else using the same ISP.

I access the internet from home. I access it from work. I access it from the local library on occasion.

How would a site account for that?

It is not uncommon for roomates to both access the same site, from the same location. How would that be accounted for?

Etc, etc, etc, etc.

What needs a "good reason" is not allowing multiple usernames, but prohibiting them.

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DL-44 said:

So why attempt dedicating resources to something that is not causing any harm, and cannot be truly enforced anyway?

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But if the only good reason is "because",.........................................................then I guess that's that.

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In other words, if someone feels that they need to have another username, for whatever reason, that they feel that they have to go to the trouble of doing it, then they will - irregardless of whatever the "rules" say.

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What needs a "good reason" is not allowing multiple usernames, but prohibiting them.

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'Nuff said.

(Edited by WebShaman on 10-21-2005 03:05)

For the sake of, "discussion".

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I access the internet from home. I access it from work. I access it from the local library on occasion. How would a site account for that?

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U do log in don't you? Same logon/username, with multiple IP addresses, is not the issue. Multiple logons/usernames, with the same IP addresses, is the issue.

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It is not uncommon for roomates to both access the same site, from the same location. How would that be accounted for?

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Understand the above!


DL, Ozone is not the only "post-it" site that exists. It is NOT unique!

I found that your post was a post, that did not contain a good reason. Unlike WS's post, your post was filled with your verbose opinion.

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

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Zynx said:

U do log in don't you? Same logon/username, with multiple IP addresses, is not the issue. Multiple logons/usernames, with the same IP addresses, is the issue.

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~sigh~

In other words, I could very easily use a different username at each, and there would be no possible way to prevent it. One user:multiple usernames. no way to stop it.

In the case of room mates - one IP address:multiple users. They would be prevented from both accessing the site under unique usernames.

In addition, as I said before, blocking an IP address does nothing if the user does not have a static IP address. Blocking a range of IP addresses to block one person results in a lot of people being blocked for no good reason.

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Zynx said:

DL, Ozone is not the only "post-it" site that exists.

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Which has....what....do to with....what??

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Zynx said:

It is NOT unique!

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Actually it *is* quite unique.

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Zynx said:

I found that your post was a post, that did not contain a good reason. Unlike WS's post, your post was filled with your verbose opinion.

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Your inability to understand the reason is not my concern.

This subject has used up far to much bandwidth already.

Let's move on, eh?



(Edited by DL-44 on 10-21-2005 04:06)

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This subject has used up far to much bandwidth already.

Let's move on, eh?

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yes, it is time to move on...I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread Topic - Gorillas are smart too!

Well...not all of them, apparently!

DL, sites do exist that STOP multiple usernames, and it is also not impossible to accomplish.
And again, a single username accomplishes everything, multiple usernames accomplish.

"Gorilla are smart too!". After seeing WHAT they accomplished, I doubt that such actions are "smart".
People forget that simple actions in the animal kingdom, does not mean that an animal has made an amazing leap of intelligence. How many millenia did it take MAN, to go from handle sticks to eat ants, witnessed with chimpanzees, to using tableware?

So let's not make a mountain out of this MOLEHILL.

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

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Zynx said:

DL, sites do exist that STOP multiple usernames, and it is also not impossible to accomplish.

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~sigh~

then explain to me how it would be possible to stop me from using multiple usernames when I have multiple computers, multiple IP addresses, and even multiple ISP's available to me.

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.~sigh~ then explain to me how it would be possible to stop me from using multiple usernames when I have multiple computers, multiple IP addresses, and even multiple ISP's available to me.

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Even if I can/can't, explain/answer your questions, U must first remember that there ALREADY exists sites like OZONE, that enforce 1 username!

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

Sorry to ( have to ) say that, but if you don't feel confortable in the Asylum or with its policy, you are free to move on.

My previous post may sound harsh, but trust me there really was no offence intended.

To quote him, he is making a mountain out of this molehill, as we do know that it is impossible to force a single username for all the reasons you gave plus the simple fact that one can delete its cookies.

Zynx: if that multiple user names thing really annoys you, you could well open a thread about it where you explain the cons of that situation and give some technical infos on how to prevent it.

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My previous post may sound harsh, but trust me there really was no offence intended.

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I meant DL no harm myself. He seems quite capableof handling my buffoon-ness.

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Zynx: if that multiple user names thing really annoys you, you could well open a thread about it where you explain the cons of that situation and give some technical infos on how to prevent it.

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Not annoyed POI, just curious. I did consider that the many responses, on my point, were more about their comfort here at Ozone. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", right? As for a thread about these and other simple questions, maybe there already exists such a thread?

Questions like;
Is it wrong to show the posters name, when quoting them? Is it more comforting to simply post a persons post as just [quote]? Quoting the posters username helps me understand who said what.

Not completely reading an entire 4 or 5 page thread, before posting, permits a poster to lambast you for repeating a previous point, when you finally post?

Posting a comment, rather than posting a point on the issue at hand, is fuel to be shat upon?

And so on, and so on.

Where do I go to ask such things, without hi-Jacking a thread. Does such a thread already exist?

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

[quickpost]

Honestly I don't know if such a thread exists. I doubt there is one, and there's no harm to create one. Though it's rather common in the Philosophy and other Silliness to see threads overflow their initial subject, IMHO it's better to create a new thread.

As for the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". There's probably a bit of that, but this is due to the fact that the people who maintain/fix the Asylum do this in their spare time. Add to that that for point you raised, it's technically impossible, to my knowledge, to really prevent a single person to have several username ( the workaround are too easy and many, i.e. : clearing the cookies, using several computers/ISP/browsers, ... )

[/quickpost]

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poi said:

[quickpost]Honestly I don't know if such a thread exists. I doubt there is one, and there's no harm to create one. Though it's rather common in the Philosophy and other Silliness to see threads overflow their initial subject, IMHO it's better to create a new thread.As for the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". There's probably a bit of that, but this is due to the fact that the people who maintain/fix the Asylum do this in their spare time. Add to that that for point you raised, it's technically impossible, to my knowledge, to really prevent a single person to have several username ( the workaround are too easy and many, i.e. : clearing the cookies, using several computers/ISP/browsers, ... )[/quickpost]

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Well, the only surefire way I know of is to have some users log on, create a persona, then to cut the internet connection. Now they only have one username (of course, the problem with them actually being able to use it is another matter )

I guess to each there own.

I just hope that any one persona using multiple log-in names, questions his own thinking.

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "