Topic awaiting preservation: "does intellingent conversation within the asylum still exist? this thread will decide" (Page 1 of 2)

once upon a time in an asylum far far away.....

There used to be a great little forum called Philosophy and other Silliness where intelligent sometimes extremely witty, often heated debates over various topics, but normally with respect for other members....

seems to have changed somewhat.. gone are the days of bugismus webshamen dl44 etc enjoying a great debate or difference of opinion, yes they still happen but it seems that threads now more often or not degenerate into petty bickering, or someone takes the thread off on another tangent and gets pissed off when someone try's to return it back to it correct theme.

maybe times have changed or people have come... but this forum was a great little spot where u could talk about anything not related to the normal themes of the asylum (by which i mean creativity)

anyway thats just my thoughts...see what everyone else has to think...


this may die a slow death but maybe then ......

...dribble...

I know what you mean... that's why I don't come here that often... or when I do I mostly lurk... I just don't find it worth my time to come here and be vilified for my point of view. I make a point of trying to see other people points of view even if I don't agree with them but there seems to have been a rash of 'my way or the highway' mentality that just... isn't conducive to the tolerant environment that used to be here. I don't think I'll ever get the Asylum out of me... but I don't think it's as much of a fixture as it once was. Too many that I met here have moved on and their places have been filled with... what we have today. I have to say I almost mourn the days of yore when the Asylum was as much a haven as a repository for the even keeled crazy people we all were.

<sigh>

GD

quote:

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GrythusDraconisI know what you mean...

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I do not!

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

Just a thought...

I haven't been around as long as some, and even then I've disappeared for great stretches at a time, but it seems that the "death of the Asylum" is an oft-discussed topic. The premise is usually that the old gray mare, she ain't what she used to be, and what a pity that an institution has gone the way of the dodo.

The Asylum is a fluid entity. There is a small, core group of people who have been around for a long time, but most of the Asylum experiences a rather regular turnover. We get new people joining all the time, and these new people are usually eager to get involved (in one way or another) in the community. So the Asylum is never going to be what it used to be--and even if it was what it used to be, it wouldn't be what it used to be, if you get my meaning. To be static means to atrophy and die. To be dynamic is to grow and live.

I suppose where people differ in opinion is whether or not the "new Asylum" (meaning the latest incarnation, the current state) is better or worse than the "old Asylum." This all depends on your point of view. Honestly, I don't participate nearly as much here as I used to. Is that because of the Asylum or is it because of me? A little bit of both, I think. But I wouldn't dare say that the Asylum is worse off now than it was, or that it is going into its death throes, or that it is stuck in a downward spiral. I'm sure there are plenty of people who enjoy participating in the community, and for them the Asylum is the bee's knees. And that's cool.

I guess what I'm saying is that the Asylum is always changing because people are always changing, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It may not be a great thing for some people individually, but when considered in the greater scheme of things, it's just part of the natural progression.

___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

Just take a trip down memory lane...

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

I am not saying that i think that asylum is going downhill, or dying what i am trying to get at is the way the mutual respect for other members and their points of view seems to be dissapearing fast. Sure we have had blow ups here before, but not stupid bickering on a scale as seen now..

this place has always been changing faces come and go, but some of the most talented and respected members have dissapeared into the mist. That's the question why? it seems everytime someone dissapears its due to some incident about a clash here that never used to happen...

anyway i'm not bashing the asylum just the mentality of some that now haunt these walls...

WS an Suho nice to see u guys still around...

Yeah, I pop in every now and then, but I usually read the Asylum feed rather than browse through the forums, so I have to say I'm not familiar with the stupid bickering. Then again, I don't read many of the Philosophy threads anymore. So I guess I missed the point of your original post.

___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

Yeah, I'm with Suho on this one. For mine I sure miss a lot of the people that used to come here often, but the occasional bickering doesn't bug me too much - ya just sort of skim over it

In my lurking days I well recall long threads - that grew much like the current " Greetings from 2039" thread - but they often disappeared under the weight of conficting personalities; I don't notice that so much now. Having said that, I agree with Tom that there's a helluva lot less of anything to notice! The one recurring theme seems to be the looming demise of the Doc's great creation - but it's sill here.

On a practical note, I think a lot of what inspired the Asylum has become much easier to achieve; the techniques developed and stretched to breaking point here are now everyday tools. The people that contributed now have families etc and the place will grow in other ways, hopefully.

Maybe it's the pills lately; they seem to lack that certain something - perhaps it's pipe time

[sense] Organisation is anathema to organisations [/sense]

With 6100 members, (Damn, no wonder my pill quota went down!) it's kind of hard to have the same sorts of discussions there were when there were 1500 or 2000 members. And that seems to happen on all the fourms I frequent.

Here in Philosilly, I think we've been through enough of the big issues frequently enough that we all know where everyone else stands on the matter. There's no need for further discussion. More generally, I agree with Ian that part of the matter is that web and PS stuff we used to debate is no longer new and experimental but has become mainstream.

And forums in general seem to have taken a different direction lately as summarized by this, which I found in a new post today in another forum I frequent:

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How many posters does it take to change a light bulb?

1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed
14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently
7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs
1 to move it to the Lighting section
2 to argue then move it to the Electrical section
7 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs
5 to flame the spell checkers
3 to correct spelling/grammar flames
6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb" ... another 6 to condemn those 6 as stupid
2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp"
15 know-it-alls who claim they were in the industry, and that "light bulb" is perfectly correct
19 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a lightbulb forum
11 to defend the posting to this forum saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant to this forum
36 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty
7 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs
4 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected URLs
3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this forum which makes light bulbs relevant to this forum
13 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures, and add "Me too"
5 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy
4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?"
13 to say "do a search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs"
1 to hijack the thread by asking how to cook pasta
1 forum lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again.

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And that sort of thing, overall, just seems to make all forums less fun for me.

^ brucew

Here you go that's 'dmocracy' at work...

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:: Develop yourself, develop your life, develop the world ::
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brucew said:

1 to hijack the thread by asking how to cook pasta

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Good point. Just what is a good way to cook pasta? I've often wondered about grilled pasta. Like maybe ravioli, because you couldn't BBQ angel hair pasta, it'd just fall through the cooking grate.

this is quite funny in some ways, because it started off as a parody to the jesus christ thread...

but also i just wondered what other peoples thoughts were on the discussions more recently compared to those of the past... as everyone says we get more and more members which should theoretically mean more and more view points, but maybe its me just being cynical but the quality of discussion seems to have gone downhill....

nvm

The only ways I've ever cooked pasta are boiling and baking or, to be more accurate, just boiling and boiling and then baking. I guess whatever method you choose, it pretty much has to start out with boiling, huh? Even if you were to, say, grill raviolis, you'd have to boil them first or else you'd just end up with hard, burnt pasta.

Oh, wait, I take it back. I've also stir fried pasta (after boiling it, of course).

Oh, and then there's deep fried pasta (like those crunchy Chinese noodles).

Hmm... I guess there are quite a few ways to cook pasta. There are probably some others, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

(Sorry, tom. )

___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

"The old gray mare, she ain't what she used to be, ain't what she used to be, ain't what she used to be..."
Can't get that darn song out of my head now
I think I understand well what you are saying Tom, although I would add, in answer to your inital question, yes there is still is intelligent conversation here in the Asylum as well. I also agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments expressed above by GrythusDraconis, Suho, Ian, and brucew as to the reasons for the changes.
I think Suho summed it up perfectly when he said:

quote:

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the old gray mare, she ain't what she used to be

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Erm, no not that.
My online time has been spasmodic of late so when I do get hooked up it is usually for a short block of time. So I try to spend that time being more productive in the areas I prefer like photoshop or photography. Philosilly used to be a frequent haunt, and a fun one too, but I find I have not the time to waste on people ranting about how much they hate the pope or believe/disbelieve the bible or any other religion etc.
"You've got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In-Between"


::tao:::: ::cell::

I've been thinking a bit more about this one and it seems to me--which of course implies that it may not be true--but it seems like the biggest change here in Philosilly is that even in the old formal debates the attitude was different.

I recall it more like of getting to know and understand other people by way of their opinions. There was repect for others' viewpoints and positions. The debates weren't necessarily a means to change anyone's mind, but rather, to see how they tick.

I can't remember ever changing my mind on any position debated here in the past, and I highly doubt that my contributions changed anyone else's. But what I got out of them was a better understanding of how other people get *to* their viewpoints, and a better understanding of my own, given that I had to communicate them clearly and back them up.

These days things seem to either start out with, or rapidly degrade to, something more along the lines of "I don't like this" or "These people are stupid" or "You're wrong if think this" and junk like that.

There's really no room for discussion and learning when that happens.

What do you think?



(Edited by brucew on 02-13-2006 00:18)

yup thats my point exactly, i put a comment very simmilar into the last post in the jesus court to decide thread...

i dont think its because we covered all the topics, i think simply the mutual respect has gone by the wayside..

people were once more interested why someone thought something, the formal debates were interesting..

now as you say its more personality bashing going on... or when someone is interested in a thread continuing along its original course and suggesting someone digressing start a new one, then a mini flame war starts.

the crazy pasta thing here is one of the fun parts of this place.. just a moment of lightening it up, and in this thread its apt..

I'm not saying the asylum is dead , more just the spirit of mutual respect that was once here... or the lack of wanting to know why someone's opinion is so different to ours (no matter how far off base we think they are )

tao u are right intelligent conversation does still exist here sometimes

anway enough from me for the moment....

Of all of the sites I enjoy, I get something from each of them. So I am never disappointed.
Yet when I see the same thought behind these sorts of threads, I think of it as stated by Suho.

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Suho1004It may not be a great thing for some people individually,

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Mean response: Stop living in the past.
Nice response: Life goes on.

As for the personal attacks, and hijacking threads, and a lack for respect for others, I think that this only shows that this world has a long way to go before we see any true understanding of others. While sites like Asylum allow people to HIDE and state their opinion, at least it is an opinion/idea that we need to discuss, and evaluate. To defeat the hate, we need to discuss the hate.

What happens here at Asylum, has happened, and is happening, and has already happened, on many, many, many other sites. I like the idea to RE-discuss such ideas, but I think it all ends up with the same answer. And we all deal with it in different ways.

"Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes"

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

The Only Thing that Doesn't Change, it the Fact that Change Happens... Go Figure

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Out of Insanity comes brilliance(Or was it the other way around?)

Ok, ok let's get really deep here for a sec...

There once was a king who called all his wise men together and said; "Make me something that will make me happy when I am sad, and sad when I am happy". The wise men went away for a long time, and came back with a simple ring. Inscribed upon that ring was; "This too shall pass."

quote:

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F1_error said:

Ok, ok let's get really deep here for a sec...There once was a king who called all his wise men together and said; "Make me something that will make me happy when I am sad, and sad when I am happy". The wise men went away for a long time, and came back with a simple ring. Inscribed upon that ring was; "This too shall pass."

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And Was the King Bipolar

(as For Deep...Kind of Like A Puddle ..Tricky Things Ponds are...A ALLLL-A-Ways A Scheming )

================================
I don't Suffer From Insanity .... I enjoy every moment

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tomeaglescz said:, the spirit of mutual respect that was once here...

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So your one of those people who DEMAND respect, without ever EARNING it?

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

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Zynx said:

So your one of those people who DEMAND respect, without ever EARNING it?

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Yeah Zynx, that is exactly what tom meant, how perceptive of you.

::tao:::: ::cell::

Zynx, it is not a matter of demanding respect. It's a matter of courtesy. I find it absolutely amazing people feel that respect has to be earned in some fashion. I don't have to know who you are, or anything about you to respect you and your opinions. I am not a frequent poster here by any means, and I certainly don't have the history here that many do. But I think that maybe some of the change here that is being discussed is that s time has passed, rather than everyone starting with a full bucket of respect (that may occasionaly leak...) there seems to be a shift where everyone has an empty bucket that somehow has to be filled. I find that rather odd.

<shrug>

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Moon Dancer said:Zynx, it is not a matter of demanding respect. It's a matter of courtesy. I find it absolutely amazing people feel that respect has to be earned in some fashion. I don't have to know who you are, or anything about you to respect you and your opinions. I am not a frequent poster here by any means, and I certainly don't have the history here that many do. But I think that maybe some of the change here that is being discussed is that s time has passed, rather than everyone starting with a full bucket of respect (that may occasionaly leak...) there seems to be a shift where everyone has an empty bucket that somehow has to be filled. I find that rather odd. <shrug>

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That's a more approchable answer. Thanks.

I haven't been here long myself, but I see such threads pop up every so often. I'm sure that Ozone, and other such sites have changed many times over before I rolled in with disgusting abandon. I don't deny that. I guess I see it as some people can handle change and others pine for the good old days. I predict in the future, that such a thread will again rear it's head, and hope for the old to come back, while condemning the present, and fearing the future.

And when it does, today's Asylum, which is unwanted by some, will become the "old Asylum" that people will wish to return to?

" There is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It is realm as vast as space,...."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

Zynx said:

That's a more approchable answer. Thanks.I haven't been here long myself, but I see such threads pop up every so often. I'm sure that Ozone, and other such sites have changed many times over before I rolled in with disgusting abandon. I don't deny that. I guess I see it as some people can handle change and others pine for the good old days. I predict in the future, that such a thread will again rear it's head, and hope for the old to come back, while condemning the present, and fearing the future.And when it does, today's Asylum, which is unwanted by some, will become the "old Asylum" that people will wish to return to?" There is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It is realm as vast as space,...."~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "
[/quote]


Or They could Be Enjoying Happy Memories...


Well Maybe the Longing for the "old Asylum" isn't as bad as you think...

Just because something is changed... doesn't mean its better...or worse..

Maybe the Longing for the "Old Asylum" means that... The Person Just liked it better

And the Nice thing about this change... is that it can be changed by will... and Code [quote]


As For Intellavision at the Asylum... Everyone Is Crazy Here... ( well Except me...I?m INSANE...) and Because of that... well I guess I depends on Definition and Point Of View...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There Is A Fine Line Between Genius and Insanity... I Have Erased this line

(Edited by INSANEdrive on 02-18-2006 03:36)

quote:

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Zynx said:

I predict in the future, that such a thread will again rear it's head, and hope for the old to come back, while condemning the present, and fearing the future.

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As noted above a couple of times, this is certainly not the first time we've had this thread...

It certainly won't be the last.

Each time, there is plenty of truth behind it. Very often, the asylum has hit a point where it dies just a little.

~shrug~

'it is the way of things'

The Past is there, to remind us of the path we took.
The Present is here, to remind us of the path we currently are on.
The Future is there, to remind us of the paths we can choose from.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

To carry on the theme of Nostalgia Ain't What It Used To Be

Yesterday's history.
Tomorrow's a mystery,
and now is a gift
that we call the present

::tao:::: ::cell::

" History doesn't repeat itself but sometimes it rhymes."

Heard that on the radio the other day. Don't know who to attribute it to tho' but I do like it.

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F1_error said:

...dribble...

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Worth saying twice...

quote:

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F1_error said:

quote:

F1_error said:...dribble...


Worth saying twice...

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thrice to be precise.... (it's a slow night)

quote:

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vogonpoet said:

quote:

F1_error said:quote:F1_error said:...dribble...Worth saying twice...


thrice to be precise.... (it's a slow night)

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Well ya are a Poet

quote:

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vogonpoet said:

thrice to be precise.... (it's a slow night)

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Damn it's good to see you VP, you've been missed.

Hi VP,

I've felt your presence lurking.

.



-- not necessarily stoned... just beautiful.

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NoJive: " History doesn't repeat itself but sometimes it rhymes."

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It is attributed to Twain all over the Internet. Either way, great quote.

Here is another from him that I have always liked:

"It is not worthwhile to try to keep history from repeating itself, for man's character will always make the preventing of the repetitions impossible."

Not neccessarily on theme, but worth noting for its truthfulness nonetheless.

Ram

(Edited by Ramasax on 02-20-2006 03:02)

zynx i dont demand respect, never have never will, i prefer to earn it.. however times change so does the asylum, all i was ever trying to get across was simply the mutual respect seems to have taken a nose dive...

quote:

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Moon Dancer said:

quote:Moon Dancer said: But I think that maybe some of the change here that is being discussed is that s time has passed, rather than everyone starting with a full bucket of respect (that may occasionaly leak...) there seems to be a shift where everyone has an empty bucket that somehow has to be filled. I find that rather odd. <shrug>

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that sums up exactly what i was trying to point out

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Zynx said:

while condemning the present, and fearing the future.

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It doesn't have anything to do with condemning change or fear of the future or even a want of the past. The neighborhood has gone to crap as far as relationships between people go and I mourn that fact. I'm not planning on moving but I'm certainly not hosting the neighborhood barbeque. It's that kind of thing. I guess, for me, it stems from an ever shrinking list of people that I would want to associate with (See respect issue mentioned above). I dunno... the whole thing is depressing.

I miss my friends. I guess that's what it comes down to. It has less to do with the new people here than the lack of the old people here.

Huh... that changes my perspective a bit.

GD

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tomeaglescz said:, all i was ever trying to get across was simply the mutual respect seems to have taken a nose dive

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Mutual respect between exisitng members, as taken a nose dive? Or new memebers disrespecting old members? I guess I have not been here long to see what others see.

quote:

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GrythusDraconis said:It doesn't have anything to do with condemning change or fear of the
future or even a want of the past. The neighborhood has gone to crap as far as relationships between people go and I mourn that fact.

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"Gone to crap as far as relationships between people go". Again between who? New and new members, or new and old members? If it's between the odl and old memebers, I guess I have not been here long enough to see it. If it's between new and old members, then that's just expected.

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "