Topic: Chimps spotted using caves, like early Humans. (Page 1 of 1)

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Savannah chimpanzees, which can make weapons to hunt other primates for meat, can also seek refuge in caves, much like our earliest human ancestors.

New findings suggest the chimps apparently shelter themselves in caves to hide from the extreme African heat.

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It's always cool to find what our sibling Hominidae do.

Chimps making weapons, eating meat, sheltering themselves from hazardous conditions ... we gotta be careful or the next thing we know, they'll ride horses and enslave us

Get your stinking paws off of me, you damn dirty ape!

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great stuff!
whole lotta other great reads there as well.

beware poi, chimps can do javascript rotating text in 256b!

If they do it as they reproduce Shakespear's work, I still have some time ahead



(Edited by poi on 04-24-2007 01:24)

Genetically speaking, there's not enough difference between Homo and Pan geni to justify having them as two separate geni. Many biologists argue that humans can be considered just the third chimpanzee species under the Pan genus (or more commonly argument in the other direction - that both kinds of chimpanzee should be moved from the Pan to the Homo genus, because Homo was coined first) and that the Homo/Pan distinction only exists because of legacy and because there is a cultural bias that "we're so much different". Most things that distinguish us from chimpanzee come from a very small, as yet not clearly defined, set of genes affecting embryo and infant development.

...in other words, it WAS a chimpanzee that created the whole of Shakespeare's work.

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Every time they discover evidence of "lesser or primitive" apes demonstrating specific behaviors that were once thought only within the realm of modern humans, it blows me away how surprised we act. I mean I have seen the more primitive primates forge and distribute bags of peanuts at the mere sound of an organ grinder. When was the last time you saw a human do that? Trust me I have seen documented footage from multiple films sources, some of this footage is well over a hundred years old. And even 30 years ago there was a documentary hosted by Clint Eastwood, chronicling an orangutan named "Clyde" that actually used hand signals to communicate the direction it intended to turn while in traffic. This alone obviously implicates an inevitable eventual rediscovery of an orangutan highway system complete with evidence of the vehicles they built and drove. Chimps crawling into a cave to stay dry? C'mon! beetles do that! Big deal.

EpicGilgamesh
"Convince me you are not a figment of my imagination -- but don't prove it."
Guy Edwards 1973-1998

EpicGilgamesh: I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, but there's a BIG difference between a domesticated and trained animals and animals manifesting elaborated behaviors in the wild.

Anyway, welcome to the Asylum. Enjoy you stay!

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poi said:

EpicGilgamesh: I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, but there's a BIG difference between a domesticated and trained animals and animals manifesting elaborated behaviors in the wild.

Anyway, welcome to the Asylum. Enjoy you stay!

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no actually he's right, it's not a big deal....even some insects use tools....not to mention a bird can create a better nest with its beak than most men could with both hands.

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Humans found flinging excrement like our earliest simian ancestors.

No, wait, that was Congressioal campaining.

Poi: Thanks for the welcome, I agree with you, there is a difference. Behaviors that appear identical in action and outcome can be differentiated by impetus; i.e. 1) domestic training, 2) natural adaptation, or even 3) a guilt-complex nurtured by the incessant nagging of a mother who just doesn't know when to quit using her passive-aggressive comments and off-handed remarks with the skill of a surgeon wielding a laser-fine scalpel, slicing away any dignity or pride, depleting you with out even an ounce of emotional strength to lift up your chin or stand on your own two feet, so you don't bother, rationing your energy instead towards adopting and accepting the pathos of a Pavlovian slave, because then and only then can you cope with whatever She defines as the next button to push or what lever to pull next, doing exactly as she dictates so you can get that minuscule serotonin fix provided by the memory--THE MEMORY of receiving a food pellet, because the real food pellets stopped long ago along with the ability to discern "why the hell is my Mom feeding me food pellets from the pet store? or why did She start calling them bobby pellets after my brother bobby disappeared/escaped." God I hope he made it.

Besides what were you alluding to riding horses and enslaving us. "You mean a planet where Ape evolved from Man?" That's not anymore likely than say.. I dunno seeing the Statue of Liberty fallen washed up on some shore.

EpicGilgamesh
"Convince me you are not a figment of my imagination -- but don't prove it."
Guy Edwards 1973-1998

(Edited by EpicGilgamesh on 05-05-2007 10:51)

Whoa Epic: Let's tone down the length of your posts. A glance at your last one makes me want to nap.

EpicGilgamesh
"Convince me you are not a figment of my imagination -- but don't prove it."
Guy Edwards 1973-1998

(Edited by EpicGilgamesh on 05-05-2007 10:43)

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Besides what were you alluding to riding horses and enslaving us. "You mean a planet where Ape evolved from Man?" That's not anymore likely than say.. I dunno seeing the Statue of Liberty fallen washed up on some shore.

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Sorry. Don't know what happen to me ... maybe a banana overdose, or I got sunburnt because my cave was occupied.

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EpicGilgamesh said:

Poi: Thanks for the welcome, I agree with you, there is a difference. Behaviors that appear identical in action and outcome can be differentiated by impetus; i.e. 1) domestic training, 2) natural adaptation, or even 3) a guilt-complex nurtured by the incessant nagging of a mother who just doesn't know when to quit using her passive-aggressive comments and off-handed remarks with the skill of a surgeon wielding a laser-fine scalpel, slicing away any dignity or pride, depleting you with out even an ounce of emotional strength to lift up your chin or stand on your own two feet, so you don't bother, rationing your energy instead towards adopting and accepting the pathos of a Pavlovian slave, because then and only then can you cope with whatever She defines as the next button to push or what lever to pull next, doing exactly as she dictates so you can get that minuscule serotonin fix provided by the memory--THE MEMORY of receiving a food pellet, because the real food pellets stopped long ago along with the ability to discern "why the hell is my Mom feeding me food pellets from the pet store? or why did She start calling them bobby pellets after my brother bobby disappeared/escaped." God I hope he made it.

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You had us at "Thanks for the Welcome"...but nice run on sentence.


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AH, teen-simial angst.
Good times, good times.

Teen angst? I'm over 30! By the way-- Being a week from Mother's day, I should say, in all reality, I had a very fortunate childhood due to my Mom. I owe my craft and career to her constant encouragement. And Bobby? He's alive and well. In fact I just got done talking to him. We talk all the time now that he lives inside my index finger.

EpicGilgamesh
"Convince me you are not a figment of my imagination -- but don't prove it."
Guy Edwards 1973-1998

Read all about it: Chimps spotted watching humans loiter about in their homes, because they have nothing better to do.

As always, I'm a bit late on this one... and as usual, only chiming in with an opinion...

I agree with one of Epic's comments on this one - I find it bemusing that experts are still so surprised by the discovery of 'human-like' behaviour in animals (not just primates). The discovery that some animals (birds, for instance) use tools, or that animals can work together to find a solution to a problem, mourn the death of another, etc. It seems odd that people remain who are convinced that animals are unfeeling, unintelligent, unable to communicate, or incapable of even taking shelter from the rain. They are surprised when their gym bag is unzipped by a curious crow, or a dog spontaneously decides to help its disabled owner insert a cashcard into an ATM.

I'm not surprised.

The line that divides us from the rest of the animal kingdom is often blurred by 'new' information. When it comes down to it, it isn't problem-solving, adaptability, empathy, awareness of death, self-awareness, or abstract thought that defines us as human beings and separates us from animals, but the vague and unshakable feeling that we don't quite fit-in with it all. We are different not just as a consequence of superior intellect and advanced abstract conceptualisation, but simply because we feel we are.

It doesn't surprise me either, when humans act like animals.

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For most of us it is not a matter of surprise - it's a matter of documentation and evidence. Statements about the relation of humans and other animals are abundant and varied. Evidence to document the real behavior of other animals that shows how little difference there really is becomes valuable.

My daughter came home from school one day last year a bit confused. A bunch of kids at school had been ridiculing her for stating that people are animals too. To them, and to many, humans are not a species of animal, but the special and chosen creation of god. We are bombarded with many stories and explanations of other species' obvious inferiority, and the supposed complete lack of relation between human and other species.

So stories like this, and so many others get me excited. Not because they are surprising finds, but because they offer evidence for what is, to me, common sense - but is to others controversial and dangerous...

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DL-44 said:
To them, and to many, humans are not a species of animal, but the special and chosen creation of god.

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well doesn't that make sense? since humans are not animals you don't have to argue about human evolution. on the other hand it still doesn't explain why we have a vestigial tail.

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it still doesn't explain why we have a vestigial tail.

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Because god has a furry fetish.

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poi said:

Because god has a furry fetish.

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then we would have furry ears too

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SleepingWolf: Some of us do.

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When it comes down to it, it isn't problem-solving, adaptability, empathy, awareness of death, self-awareness, or abstract thought that defines us as human beings and separates us from animals, but the vague and unshakable feeling that we don't quite fit-in with it all. We are different not just as a consequence of superior intellect and advanced abstract conceptualisation, but simply because we feel we are.

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We are all prisoners of the Matrix!

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To them, and to many, humans are not a species of animal, but the special and chosen creation of god. We are bombarded with many stories and explanations of other species' obvious inferiority, and the supposed complete lack of relation between human and other species.

So stories like this, and so many others get me excited. Not because they are surprising finds, but because they offer evidence for what is, to me, common sense - but is to others controversial and dangerous...

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Amen!

Well said!

Documenting these things are important - take a look at http://www.talkorigins.org/ to see why it is absolutely necessary to document such things ad infinitum.

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