Rather than hijack kimson's thread on laptops, I thought I'd open a new thread about keyboards.
poi wrote:
quote:
Or maybe Dell's keyboards' layout is more retarded than I thought. I really don't like having the Home, End, PageUp, PageDown, Delete, Insert keys in a 2x3 grid. It should be 3x2, like the arrow keys. Oh well at least they don't have that smallReturn key I've seen on US keyboard. It's no longer if the shape of a fat '7', but the size of the Ctrl key. Weird.
Yeah, yeah I know I'm an*l about keyboards layout.
I think a lot of us get anal about keyboards since we spend so much time with them everyday.
I have three keyboards that I bought two or three years ago. They are MircoSoft brand keyboards with a natural (split) layout. They are "pretty" keyboards in shades of blue and grey. I have three major complaints about them 1) MircoSoft decided to totally botch-up the keypad where the Home, End, PageUp, PageDown and Delete keys are. Rather than the 3x2 layout that was used for several years they decided to make it 2x3 and made the Delete key use two of those spaces so they had to remove the Insert key. It took me almost a year to get used to that arrangement. I was constantly hitting Home when I wanted to hit Insert and hitting PageDown when I wanted to hit End. (I think this is the same thin po1 is complaining about)
2) The Function keys are not active on these keyboards. You have to engage the Fxn Key Lock to get them to work and then there is a bright green light that comes on to remind you that the function keys are active. It just drives me nuts.I also leave it off most of the time which means that when I want to boot into safe mode , for example, I end up re-booting the machine two or three times because I forget to enable Fxn-Key Lock before re-booting.
3) A couple of months after getting the keyboards, the keys on all of them started to stick. Most of the time it's just a nuisance because a key doesn't depress as fast as I want, but sometimes, I almost have to stand on the key to get it to depress. The larger keys (Enter, Shift, Ctrl) seem to be the worst.
I really like to use natural (split) keyboards and it's really hard to find good ones. I have one I like a lot. It came with my Gateway server about ten years ago and I haven't had any problems with it, yet (I notice that it also has the name MircoSoft on it)
I don't have the problem you guys seem to have with the smaller Return keys (all of my keyboards seem to use the small key), but, I really hate a keyboard with sticky keys.
What keyboards do you guys use? Where did you get them?
My brother got a box of four brand new natural keyboards with the old (proper) home/end & arrow keys (these are discontinued) off ebay for very little... it was under $100 for sure, I want to say $80 or $40.
From: buttcrack of the midwest Insane since: Oct 2000
posted 05-15-2007 05:52
I use a split keyboard that came with my Gateway computer several years ago. It has the 2x3 layout for the home-insert keys, and the function keys are active all the time.
I like it. It hard for me to use a "straight" keyboard now.
On my laptop I use an old MS Natural (split) keyboard, with 3x2 Home-End keys, and the functions keys are active all the time. Only minor point, the useless 19 "multimedia whatever" keys at the top that I never used except when shuting down the laptop by mistake :\ Oh and it has a FR layout, which I now only appreciate when chatting with my family and friends in French ( typing in French without the accents looks stupid and wrong ). One nice plus is that it serves as a small USB hub with its 2 USB ports behind the bulge.
I grew addicted to the UK layout of the normal ( neither split nor really slim ) keyboard I use at work. It's so damn more efficient to code and use PhotoShop than the FR or NO layout. Alas it has that stupid 2x3 layout of the Home-End keys. Trust me the layout does make a difference if you're a keyboard shortcut maniac as I am.
Side note, as I switch between UK, FR and occasionnaly NO layout, I get the extra annoyance of an adaptation time when using another keyboard, or worst closing a document by mistake when pressing Ctrl-Q or Ctrl-W instead of Ctrl-A or Ctrl-Z.
Logitech seems to have decent, simple, keyboards with sensible layouts in many languages. I will buy a UK one online for my laptop. I think the only issue is that they are in PS2.
Tyberius Prime
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers
From: Germany Insane since: Sep 2001
posted 05-15-2007 09:58
I also swear on old MS Natural keyboards.
I even pick them up on ebay and put them on the shelf, just in case one of them breaks (and buy usb adapters to make them work on macs ^^).
Last one was 15 EUR ( 20 if you include the usb adapter)... and these things have just the right feel to them.
It's getting harder and harder though - every keyboard the built afterwards isn't as great, and it's a hazzle to avoid all those with 'funny extra keys' and the like.
You can try dvorak with a qwerty keyboard, AFAIK. I've seen keyboards that take the extra step and align the keys in a perfect grid (rows are not offset) ...dunno about that.
I have to say though, I don't think I've ever had RSI... One time I played an MMOG (SubSpace) for 48 hours straight and my right hand's finger tips hurt from aggressive continuous jabbing; my hands become tired after many many hours of typing, but there's not really pain. I have horrible keyboard posture, too.
Tyberius Prime
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers
From: Germany Insane since: Sep 2001
posted 05-15-2007 18:47
I've also been typing dvorak for 8 years now ( just change the keyboard layout on a regular keyboard via whatever your operating system offers).
that and a ms natural keyboard reduced the stress on my fingers tremendously, they never tire the way the used to.
It's quite a pain in the but to switch from touch-typing querty to touch-typing dvorak, but in my mind it's been well worth it...
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 06-04-2007 19:43
My favorite keyboard was the old ibm selectric typewriter and if I had the where-with-all I'd mod one today. It just felt good period.
When the dvorak appeared I was very much intrigued but being somewhat long in the tooth rewiring my brain would likely take longer than the time I have left. =)
I recently used a new Mac for a few weeks and found the keyboard that came with it.... just about the most useless
peripheral attached to a computer.... ever.
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 06-04-2007 22:15
quote: Tyberius Prime said:
re: (newer imac ) mac keyboards - pretty, but horrid to type on.
Yup. I really do wonder sometimes how a product like that makes it past the prototype stage... or even that far. The first time I saw one I thought ...well that'd be a bitch to try and type with.... Several months later there i was ready to take a hammer to it. Clearly someone or several someone's was/were hit with a stupid stick.
Form over function was the clear winner over that one.
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"Capitalism hears all prayers...." Lore Sjöberg
Tyberius Prime
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers
From: Germany Insane since: Sep 2001
posted 06-05-2007 21:37
never the less, if you're using a mac, I highly recommend Quicksilver.
It's a blaze to start apps with this ( and it learns what you do often), and it can do a lot more - for example I've tied a macro in my editor to a mouse gesture,
letting me basically apply different latex formatings to raw text just be selecting and shaking the mouse ( no second hand needed), or start music in 5 minutes
(good to annoy office mates, if your mac suddenly starts playing with no one around) to tying compilation runs to hotkeys... it really is nifty and well
worth getting into.
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 06-05-2007 23:18
TP: Meant to ask about switching between dvorak and qwerty. How easily does it come? If you're at home on your own system with the dvorak keyboard and then you find yourself dealing with the qwerty.... does your brain jump between the 2 with little difficulty?
Or is it simply a case of taking the dvorak keyboard wherever you work?
I'm not sure I've made sense there... but I think you get the idea.
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"Capitalism hears all prayers...." Lore Sjöberg
posted 05-14-2007 19:14
(and buy usb adapters to make them work on macs ^^).
