Tyberius Prime
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers
From: Germany Insane since: Sep 2001
posted 11-05-2008 14:51
And the news is full of it, and it's by a suprisingly safe margin (compared to the last couple of elections),
and I might just be able to stop cursing my old english teacher for teaching me that 'change' means 'small amount
of coins'...
Boy, how's he ever gone life up to the expectations floating around though?
From: The Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 11-05-2008 15:31
I want to personally thank each and every American that made this possible.
I also want to offer a hand to those who did not, across the aisle. Now is the time to put aside our differences and work together, as a nation, to fix those problems we are now having, and to face the challenges that are surely coming.
quote:Boy, how's he ever gone life up to the expectations floating around though?
Well, no doubt about it, expectations are high.
He knows it.
One thing going in his favor (aside from the Popular vote and the overwhelming Electorial victory) is the gift that America has given him - majorities in both House and Senate. This I consider a mandate for Obama to actually be able to accomplish things, instead of having to battle Congress to do it.
The rest will depend on who he picks for what positions in his Staff and Cabinet. Considering the race that he ran, the organization and the skill involved, I think he has a good idea who is going to be offered what. It remains to see who actually accepts which offer.
If Obama brings the right people in the right positions, with the mandate that the American people have handed him in the Congress, then despite the massive problems and hurdles facing America, I believe that he will lead us out of our present difficulties.
I think this is a very positive thing for both America and the world.
Now let us bask in this moment of history.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
I think we can say that the next four years will make or break Obama. Given the circumstances in the world with the threat of terrorism, the enconomy and health care, his administration has a lot to achieve and it will take a long time to recover in regard to the world economy.
Though he is too liberal for me, I respect that his is now our commander in chief. And I will pray that he may change his heart in some areas I disagree with. I will also pray for his safety here and abroad.
Happy about results on Propositon 8 and other states ban on same-sex marriage.
And I am very happy to live in a state that just passed a resolution allowing same-sex marriage, and who just voted against a ballet question aimed at trying to ban it!
I wonder Jade, if your position would change if you knew, the way that I (and many of us) do, people who's lives have been so hurt by such bans?
dl..how could the voted marriage ban actually hurt so much? people choose not to marry and live together all the tiem and still are happy.
They can still marry.
quote:Boy, how's he ever gone life up to the expectations floating around though?
I think the honeymoon will be very short indeed once the weight of running this country comes down on him. I wish him godspeed all the same.
The same-sex marriage issue deserves its own thread to be sure.
DL, no deep divide on that issue eh? There's just another example of something that has no chance of people "coming together" over. Please tell me you're not suggesting that there aren't profoundly compelling arguments on both sides of that issue.
No theocratic nutbags? There was never a chance of that Now you just have two theists in there which surely is less than ideal in your estimation.
I too will honor Barack Obama as my president and pray for his success. I am now in the seat of the loyal opposition. I would be lying if I said I wasn't gravely concerned about his lack of experience and his left-wing policy proposals, but I truly hope he'll be able to do some good in his next 2 terms.
NoJive, yeah at this point I have no doubts he'll be in for the next 8 years. Of course, lots can change in this first term but if history is any predictor here he's good for 2 terms.
Also, it has been pointed out by twItch^ that the Republicans really dropped the ball on there own principles and in a way I'm glad they've been taken down several notches. It's going to be a good opportunity to get some better leadership in place and get back to the principles that made the party of Lincoln so good.
I also think that both of these candidates deserve TONS of credit for keeping the negative campaigning to a minimum. I know they both dipped into that tank but it could have gotten far uglier than it did. I'm quite proud of both of them and our country on this day.
From: there...no..there..... Insane since: May 2001
posted 11-05-2008 21:34
I am very glad that Obama won. I was never really concerned with politics until the past few years, esp. the last 4. I watched so many people loose their jobs and healthcare.
I am looking forward to seeing what Obama does now. His job will not be an easy one, and everyone needs to remember that during his term. Everything is so screwed up at this point, that it is going to take a long time to fix. It's sometimes easy to screw something up, but very hard to fix.
DL, no deep divide on that issue eh? There's just another example of something that has no chance of people "coming together" over. Please tell me you're not suggesting that there aren't profoundly compelling arguments on both sides of that issue.
I wasn't suggesting that, but that is precisely what I will say. I have seen absolutely no hint of a compelling argument in support of banning gay marriage.
And yes I mean that very much, very seriously, and very simply.
quote: Bugimus said:
No theocratic nutbags? There was never a chance of that Now you just have two theists in there which surely is less than ideal in your estimation.
Well there would have been at least one! There is just no denying that Palin fits the bill for that one...
Less than ideal? Perhaps...
But I have no delusions that suddenly theism will disappear, and no qualms with our president being one.
Having personal beliefs that I find silly, and feeling that you have the obligation and right to push them onto others are staggeringly different things...
quote: jade said:
dl..how could the voted marriage ban actually hurt so much? people choose not to marry and live together all the tiem and still are happy.They can still marry.
You answered your own question Jade. People CHOOSE to live together and not marry.
Other people choose to marry but are not allowed because of people who feel they have the right to tell them they cannot.
How would you feel if you were told that you and your husband would not be allowed to marry, because such a marriage was seen as wrong in the eyes of someone else's religion?? Think that sounds absurd? Then you understand how your arguments sound...
But yes....as Bugimus said, the topic deserves its own thread. If either of you feel like discussing further, start one up and I'll gladly join in.
From what I see in today?s trend, I believe your utopia of a secular establishment in society will never come to pass. Obama, will not be able to achieve or implement secularism in the mainstream even in his 4 or 8 year term(s). For the reason that he is a Christian.
My viewpoint in this proposition 8 is of a theological perspective in regarding keeping the foundations of family in our society protected. I know you would never be able to see my view because you believe in no God. You understand me, you just don?t see the world with my eyes.
Because of the recent strong state wide massive approach in protecting the traditional marriage, many crossed denominational lines to come together to over-turn the supreme court?s decision to allow same-sex marriage in one state. The majority of Americans do not want same-sex marriage to be allowed nationwide. I believe this was a wake up call and a start of an organized opposition that will grow to a giant goliath. The will of the people was spoken aloud in their vote. Can you respect their vote as you would respect a woman?s right to choose? Sure, gay persons want to be treated like good persons and I believe in this wholeheartily, but the push by them to accept that the committed relationship they espouse is equal to the one I share with my husband is irrational and really silly in nature. They are living in a dreamscape. Can they procreate by coming together to produce an entity of love by their union? No. This is what a real marriage is. Now..if they want to go to a civil union and pretend they are married ?ok. Let them act like married persons. Why go the trouble of marrying in a religious ceremony? It makes a mockery of a marriage blessed by a God. Can a gay marriage ever be a holy one? No. Never. Because the definition of ?holy? is to be faithful by imitating the good of God in all its fullness. Two men having sex (yuck) and imitating married life is so opposite and very un-holy.
Many believe that because we define marriage as man/woman commitment, they think of us as bigots.. This is so far from the truth in more ways that one, but we also base our beliefs in biology. Keeping marriage a traditional man/woman union is a good for society. If we look back at history in the Roman era of ancient times, we see the Roman elite masters having sex with their male servants and it was rampant. It got so bad that, the existing Cesar had to make a proclamation against it for the good of Roman society because the men forgot about the women. And desired only men.
Is it false to proclaim that children are better off in a stable environment with a mother and father? Or are they better off with two male partners? Would two male partners teach them how to imitate a love between spouses in the communal way? I don? think so.
quote:I am looking forward to seeing what Obama does now. His job will not be an easy one, and everyone needs to remember that during his term. Everything is so screwed up at this point, that it is going to take a long time to fix. It's sometimes easy to screw something up, but very hard to fix.
CPrompt, I hope you don't mind me using this as an example. It is precisely this sentiment that convinces me that Obama will have no trouble winning his second term. I think the Bush hatred runs so deep with so many people that Obama will be able to draw upon it for well into his first term.
quote:What's so wrong with the left?
Blaise, are you serious? We really could take a closer look at that if you want to know actual issues I have with left wing ideology.
DL, for you to see no hint of a compelling argument says to me you discount millennia of human evolution. I won't go so far as to say that shocks me but coming from someone who puts a lot of stock in science it does give me pause.
DL, for you to see no hint of a compelling argument says to me you discount millennia of human evolution. I won't go so far as to say that shocks me but coming from someone who puts a lot of stock in science it does give me pause.
I don't understand your conclusion or how you came to it...
From: there...no..there..... Insane since: May 2001
posted 11-06-2008 03:02
quote: jade said:
but the push by them to accept that the committed relationship they espouse is equal to the one I share with my husband is irrational and really silly in nature.
Silly and irrational? Says who? You?
quote: jade said:
This is what a real marriage is.
Says who?
quote: jade said:
Many believe that because we define marriage as man/woman commitment, they think of us as bigots.. This is so far from the truth in more ways that one, but we also base our beliefs in biology.
I think it's narrow minded as well as being a bigot. And yes I would call you a bigot since by definition a bigot is a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
quote: jade said:
Keeping marriage a traditional man/woman union is a good for society.
And what is it that is good for society about a man / woman union?
You base the definition of marriage on the sex of the couple. What about love and what brought them to this "union"???
Blaise, are you serious? We really could take a closer look at that if you want to know actual issues I have with left wing ideology.
Ok then, what's so good about the right?
Jade, you do realise that marriage was never invented by the Christians right? Your view point on this issue seems to be based around marriage being something that is owned by us, but I'm afraid, it isn't.
From: The Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 11-06-2008 12:01
quote: Bugimus said:
DL, for you to see no hint of a compelling argument says to me you discount millennia of human evolution. I won't go so far as to say that shocks me but coming from someone who puts a lot of stock in science it does give me pause.. . . : : . . Innervating Your Eyes & Mind : . . .
I must reiterate what DL has said in response to this -
Marriage has absolutely NOTHING to do with any Science or evolution, to be factual here. It is a human institution, a custom, a tradition. IT DOES NOT EXIST IN NATURE!
Other words used to describe it may be Partnership, Union, etc.
Only the religious would use Holy in conjunction with it as definition.
DL is not only right on when he says
quote: DL-44 said:
I wasn't suggesting that, but that is precisely what I will say. I have seen absolutely no hint of a compelling argument in support of banning gay marriage.
And yes I mean that very much, very seriously, and very simply.
Other people choose to marry but are not allowed because of people who feel they have the right to tell them they cannot.
How would you feel if you were told that you and your husband would not be allowed to marry, because such a marriage was seen as wrong in the eyes of someone else's religion?? Think that sounds absurd? Then you understand how your arguments sound...
but also just.
This is SOLEY a personal rights issue. It is nothing but a personal rights issue. Trying to bring anything else into it is wrong.
Now, I would suggest that we open up a new thread to discuss and debate this issue further.
On Obama and the Presidency
He is already being painfully careful with the selection of those going in his Cabinet and those being selected for Office.
He has also said that it is going to be a hard climb ahead. I truly expect him to have to implement things that I probably will not initially agree with, to solve some of the problems now facing America and those to come. I expect him to take the hard road, the one less travelled.
I think it is far too early to make any type of judgements about what he is going to do, etc. I would suggest that we first wait and see how he assumes office, and what the first things are that he does, before even attempting to define him.
I want to take this opportunity to say that none of us truly know or understand the length and breadth of the damage that 8 years of Mr. Bush has done to the nation. By this I mean that which is not visible to the public eye, including relations with other countries (stuff that goes on behind closed doors, obviously), the real economic condition of the US, etc.
I am pretty sure that he is getting briefed on all this now, and it is probably a very sobering experience.
One question for you, Bugs. I once asked you if you regret the actions of Mr. Bush, and you said that you loyally support him still (IIRC - please correct me if I am wrong here)
In light of this
quote:"Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid may go off the deep end," said veteran GOP strategist Tony Fabrizio, referring to the Democratic House speaker and Senate majority leader. "But Obama is a very, very skillful politician. Why do we think he will suddenly become a dope . . . by lurching to the left?"
Amid the hand-wringing Wednesday, conservative thinkers who helped fashion the Republican rise to power a decade ago were already moving to shape the debate about renewing it.
In newspaper opinion pieces and online essays, they heaped scorn on Bush and congressional Republican leaders for expanding government, driving up the national debt and abandoning the core small-government principles of the party.
"The party that we have supported has betrayed us and abandoned us," said Richard Viguerie, a leading architect of the modern conservative political movement.
and especially the state that the Republican Party is in now (not to mention the country), do you still hold to Mr. Bush loyally?
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
I had to take yesterday off from work because I was too busy celebrating this new chapter in America's -- nay, the world's -- history. He told us that we could do anything. And we did.
Thanks to all Americans who voted, for whomever you voted, in this historic election. This is a mandate.
quote:DL said this: No (theological) nut bags in the white house!
I have to agree with Bugimus. Just a different theology and one that's trying reduce the entire world to it's belief system. Have you studied Obama's history? Spent some years being educated in radical islam it seems. Could we have a sleeper cell in the White House? Don't choke DL, they are serious questions.
On another subject: has anyone noticed that Obama does not respect the flag of his own country? Or is it really his country...is this guy really for America or is he for himself? His psychology has been called narcissistic, the same as Adolf Hitler. This stuff is in the news and on the web. Is anyone even researching what they elected? Does anyone care who's in office, as long as it isn't Bush? Look back...see any really excellent presidents since Lincoln?
Maybe the fact that he will move to immediately disarm Americans doesn't move you. Maybe you don't care about your rights as an American. Hitler disarmed Germany in the 7th step of his 10-step plan. Are you ready to serve the master? Do you think we deserve it? Or are people just short-sighted enough to not care about what is coming over the next 20 years.
Or maybe he's really an OK guy because he will spit on all the bodies of dead American soldiers who actually believed that this country, and the freedom they have, is worth fighting for.
To me it was a sad day. America just took a turn for communism and our enemies are cheering. They are cheering because we will become just like them. We will become like them because America has chosen selfishness over compassion. Please don't make the bumper sticker claim that America helps others because of the resources it can steal. It doesn't wash back through history.
From: there...no..there..... Insane since: May 2001
posted 12-10-2008 03:59
quote: Allewyn said:
Spent some years being educated in radical islam it seems.
and this is where I almost stopped reading...
And to think I would have missed things like
quote:
His psychology has been called narcissistic, the same as Adolf Hitler. This stuff is in the news and on the web. Is anyone even researching what they elected? Does anyone care who's in office, as long as it isn't Bush?
Allewyn, if you want to understand who Barack Obama is then stop believing the bullshit republican propaganda and read about things that matter such as his Voting record and Wikipedia page - if you don't trust it then you can go through the 193 references
Of course, if you change the words in my quote...then you are free to turn it to whatever subject you wish...
But I'd appreciate it, if you're going to quote me, if you'd keep my words intact
Other than that, all I can really say is:
Where do you do your "research"? Rense? Weekly World News?
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 12-11-2008 00:45
OT
^ that Rense fella's a piece of work alright but I do like the work of dees who turns up on his front page. Some very uncomfortable objectionable takes on the world around us but I do like the execution. http://www.deesillustration.com/ps1.html
___________________________________________________________________________
?Privatize the Profits - Socialize the Losses.? Randi Rhodes
This word is utterly depreciated. The only possible marginally sensible definition (which virtually no one of import uses) describes actions that have occurred since time began... yet people have only used this word for a couple hundred years ? popularly only in the past half century. Calling someone who blows something up (e.g.) for whatever reason a terrorist is about as meaningful as labelling them angry person or person who scares. By the modern popular usage of the word terrorism, kids on halloween are terrorists, grade school bullies are terrorists, prosecutors are terrorists, most governments are terrorists, all military entities are terrorists, bears are terrorists, chihuahueños are terrorists. You might as well pick a word randomly from the dictionary and use that.
Tyberius Prime
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers
From: Germany Insane since: Sep 2001
posted 12-11-2008 10:59
What's a chihuahueño? Google images seems to suggest a kind of dog, but maybe you can clarify, reiso
Did you actually look at Sen. Obama's voting record?
You seem to be touting it as a strong point but I can only conclude you didn't actually look at it.
This has nothing to do with political ideologies. He just doesn't have a voting record - unless "Not Voting" appeals to you.
Edit: As a point of reference, in the last 100 votes he voted "Not Voting" 80 times. It doesn't seem to improve too drastically as I glance at the next 100 votes.
I'm surprised by the energetic denial but not disappointed.
If you don't like what I say, read this, from an independent: http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaLatest.htm
Let the parties begin huh? No more rules. Let's stop the killing in Iraq but kill people before they're born and when they become inconveniently old. You want to stop the killing? Then stop the killing.
Let's guarantee freedom of religious expression as long as it isn't about God or love. Make sure everyone knows THAT religion is about hating. What crap. I'm not even a Christian but it makes me sick to see people insist on their rights while denying others the same rights.
Much better is the religion of ignorance, because we can all be comfortable, and do whatever we like even if it hurts others.
Let's promote freedom of speech as long as the speaker says what we like.
It's so sad to watch this country willingly self-destruct. What happened to the America I grew up in? All it is now is one SIG or another crying llike mewling infants that they have been insulted in some way. The America I believe in has the same rights for all.
To think I fought for your rights to speak openly, when you will not honor mine.
But I guess this is the right place for this. The asylum.
People are crazy enough to believe Islam will leave us alone if we leave them alone.
Unwilling to look at the connection this president has.
A president that couldn't run a state having financial problems and abundant crime.
A president that repeatedly failed to provide documents. You've to be kidding.
BUT maybe he will be such a loser people will come back to their senses. I've lost mine. I'm not able to handle the destruction of my country from the inside. Yes, I'll go back to solitary. But you ought to be ashamed of yourselves for promoting the very hatred you say is wrong. Wonder what you'll say to that...
From: The Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 01-24-2009 00:09
*tries to read above post but fails*
Seriously, you need to seperate your...man, you need to take some writing classes, I think.
Pretty jumbled up, hard to make sense of just what it is you are really trying to say.
I think most of what you posted could be summed up thusly :
"I am disappointed that Obama won"
Ok, so we all know now. Thank you for voicing your opinion.
That is what I have to say to that.
Oh, and one more thing - and this was something I had to learn as well, the hard way (and Krets did not pull any punches, either). Just because you fought in a war, does not give you ANY DAMN right to belittle others who have not. Their opinions and beliefs are just as valid as yours are, that is, if you are living in America.
If you truly put your life on the line for your country, then you need to buck up and realize that others in the country are entitled to their free speech, freedom of religion, and other rights granted by the Constitution of the United States for that is what you should have been fighting for - to uphold this. You do not have to agree with them, of course. But you should recognize their right to do so.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
quote:does not give you ANY DAMN right to belittle others who have not.
quote:To think I fought for your rights to speak openly, when you will not honor mine.
Could you point out where I did that? I don't see it.
I don't believe you honor my right to freedom of speech if I disagree with the status quo.
At least that's what I typed.
Maybe I'm missing something. ~looks again~ Nope.
Anyway, you proved my point nicely. Thank you.
But then you admit you didn't read it anyway.
Too bad, you may have learned something.
I'm keeping my sentences short, ok?
Not sure what you mean by separating them.
And no, I'm not disappointed that Obama won. It was the reason.
I'm outraged that people wanted change for the sake of change.
All that mattered was he wasn't Bush or some other right-winger.
what effect is his election having on the sworn enemies of freedom?
All I have to do is monitor the Islamic websites and I know they are happy.
They're happy because America will be reduced to 3rd-world status, if it survives.
Lord Obama can't renounce Islam or they will send out a hit squad.
You don't like Christianity? You REALLY won't like living under Islam. And it's coming.
It's really going to screw with your religion.
Sorry some of my sentences were too long. Or not separated.
Somewhere above, Cprompt defined bigotry.
Apparently I'm bigoted. I believe in goodness to the exclusion of evil.
I think it fits in your case too. Intolerant of another's point of view.
Hey, we're all bigoted!
Arturio: you believe CNN tells the truth?
Sorry 'bout that. Couldn't get much from it.
I stopped watching TV two years ago and glad I did.
If you think I'm negative now, should've heard me then.
The media's sole aim is to turn this country into a socialist state.
Living with a bumper-sticker mentality ("news" media brainwash) won't save you.
I went back and put some spaces in. Hope it helps.
I'm taking a pill and going to bed.
Have a nice evening.
From: there...no..there..... Insane since: May 2001
posted 01-25-2009 15:24
quote: Allewyn said:
You don't like Christianity? You REALLY won't like living under Islam. And it's coming.
It's really going to screw with your religion.
WTF are you talking about? That really makes no sense. Are you suggesting that all of America is going to convert to Islam?
quote: Allewyn said:
Somewhere above, Cprompt defined bigotry.
Apparently I'm bigoted. I believe in goodness to the exclusion of evil.
I think it fits in your case too. Intolerant of another's point of view.
I don't remember defining bigotry but then again, I'm not going back and reading everything. I am not "intolerant of another's point of view". I can respect others beliefs, point of views, thoughts... What I can not tolerate is someone not giving me the same courtesy.
Obama has been in office for 5 days! 5 freakin days! Damn. Give the man some time. I actual heard Rush Limbaugh say the other day that he hopes Obama fails. DAMN! Talk about non-american! What happened to stand behind your leader?
quote: Allewyn said:
The media's sole aim is to turn this country into a socialist state.
Living with a bumper-sticker mentality ("news" media brainwash) won't save you.
Living with a bumper-sticker mentality...that's pretty good. I'll have to remember that one.
From: The Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 01-26-2009 00:37
Allewyn, you have every right to your opinion, and since the Constitution of the United States is still in effect (at least, it was last time I checked), you also have the right to express yourself (freedom of speech).
I have no problem with that. However, that does not mean I have to agree with what you say.
The content of what you say...man, do you really believe all that wacko stuff?
No wonder you see gloom and doom all around you, if that is a peek into what is boiling beneath your skull. I guess it is not worth the time or effort to take your...umm...well, words apart and examine them against the backdrop of reality. Are you really convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt in those things you posted?
Man, you seem in a really sad place to me. Sorry to hear that.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Did you actually look at Sen. Obama's voting record?
You seem to be touting it as a strong point but I can only conclude you didn't actually look at it.
This has nothing to do with political ideologies. He just doesn't have a voting record - unless "Not Voting" appeals to you.
Edit: As a point of reference, in the last 100 votes he voted "Not Voting" 80 times. It doesn't seem to improve too drastically as I glance at the next 100 votes.
I'd say that 46.3% missed votes is not something to be proud of but yes I have examined Obama's voting record and I have done the same for Mc Cain. Please notice that in the 110. Senate the biggest vote missers are either presidential candidates or were hospitalized for a long time. Then look at the numbers for 109. Senate.
quote: Allewyn said:
Arturio: you believe CNN tells the truth?
Most of the time: Yes. I don't watch/read it that often though. I get my news from a multitude of sources and try to piece the truth together myself to the best of my ability. Everyone is at least a little biased either one way or another ... unfortunately there's no such thing as completely unbiased media.
OZONE Asylum
posted 11-05-2008 14:51
Now you just have two theists in there which surely is less than ideal in your estimation.
I don't understand your conclusion or how you came to it...
