Well you're in luck - they start today here in CT (I think...).
And I'm a bit hard up these days...a few drinks and who knows
quote: GrythusDraconis said:
Can I get in on that Marriage, twItch^? Lets get this gay, group, polygamous ball rolling! GD
Might as well throw Krets' dog in the mix too, especially since twitch^ already consummated that relationship
Of course, we'll need at least one woman too...who's game?
Blaise - you know I wasn't actually asking, right? Just checking...
That Keith Olbermann's video was soooooo funny.. I thought he was about to weep many times and then he didn't. Such a passionate deep love for his fellow man.. Does he really think anyone would give a flip about what his opinion is or what he thinks.. just because he is on tv. Just like you guys don't give a flip about my opinion because it doesn't agree with yours or his. One thing I can surely see, ...Parts of him live in the closet. My odds are he has had a homosexual experience. His passion for the disbelief of the passage gives him away. And he sorta reminds me of many on this forum who are so heartfelt passionate about their fellow gays. When I sent the video to my friends they thought the same thing.
quote:don't think you are going to hell because you don't accept the gay lifestyle. I think you are going to hell because you don't live like Christ. You don't act like someone who aspires to live like Christ, which is the best that we can do. To act in accordance with your presumption of Gods will is to sin in pride that you know the will and way of God. I am not aware of an instance of Christ badgering the unwilling into submission. Christ arrived, Christ spoke. The willing came, the unwilling didn't. Christ moved on. Can you not live your life in such a graceful way?
You know GD, you really don't see me act... you don't really know me in person.... day to day.... and wow.... just because I don't agree with you, you have sentenced me to hell. Nevermind that I have never commited murder, adultrey, theft, prostitution, or am guilty of the seven deadly sins. I just have a differnce of opinion from you and that qualifies me as a canidiate for hell. According to how you view your faith in your God, I've got my green card to haddies. Well, I am not perfect and I surely will have to spend lots of time purging for my offenses in the eyes of God, but, I would never ever go so far as to say any one, gay or straight is going to the firey pit because they do not live like me. You don't come across as a loving Christian to me accroding to the Christian bible...What about love the sinner, hate the sin.. Or am I excluded and you don't love me cause I don't think like you. You need to look in the mirror, because you accusing me of what you are.....intolerant to those that do not share your views.
I wonder why there are more homosexual men than there are lesbians. I think the ratio is like 10 to 1. In my opinion from what I have read, I see that many straight men are more prone to accept the gay lifestyle, because they do not see the effects of what the lifestyle does to the human spirit/soul, but more in what they mostly see in it the erotic pleassures they can get. They don't see male, or female.. They see the act as a way of gratifying themselves sexually above being concerned with who or what they use. It seems it reveals that many straight/gay men are in more intouch with their animal nature as opposed to women. I mean, women don't frequent brothels, bath houses, neighborhood parks or cyberspace looking for sex a much as men do. That is why I believe some straight men (remember not all) think to be gay is ok.
Herein lies the difference between how we view people, Jade. I do not measure people by what i believe. I measure people by what THEY believe. If they cannot live to the standards they set for themselves... why on earth should I expect them to live up to mine. Your faith decrees that one should live their life like Christ and through Christ's sacrifice and grace you will be entered unto heaven. His is the way and the door and none shall come to me excpept through him. (paraphrased) Your actions here in this thread and on this forum have shown a pattern of belief that includes intolerance of anything that does not fit into your biblical view of the world. You walk through these situations dropping statements and not answering questions that are directed at helping you view things more openly. Namely, how many gay couples do you know and also How does a gay couple being married do ANYTHING to you?
Now to get down to the nuts and bolts of it... I do not condsider myself a follower of any religion so technically I am not a Christian. I do believe in the ideals of Christianity however. I don't really think you are going to hell. I don't believe in hell, or heaven for that matter. I believe those are gifts and punishments created to control the masses. The reality is, if you feel you've done wrong, YOU think you're going to hell. As I mentioned above, it does me no good to measure a person by my beliefs. The only true measure of a person is by what they believe and how they act on it. It appears to me that what you believe causes you to live out of harmony with others because you refuse to accept the differences between us.
I don't agree with you. I don't hate you. I don't want you to live like me. I want you to live like Christ, as your beliefs should guide you to do. The only thing I am intolerant of are people who can't live in a world without shaping that world to their wants. If we just let it alone and lived life as we would, we would all get closer to that ethereal 'peace' thing we all claim to want. Well, damnit, if you act like you want to make the world that way... well... we just might accomplish something. Wouldn't that be a fine day when people get along despite their differences because what you believe just doesn't impact me at all and what I believe just doesn't impact you at all. What a fine day that would be. I strive for it, belive in it. I don't know if I'll witness it. Christ as an ideal... I don't think i'll ever be able to be that... but damnit I'm going to try and in trying I just might become a better person. This is what I hope for you and everyone, regardless of what you believe, live by it and may it help you be a better person.
I think your hypothesis is interesting regarding the men/women aspect of acceptence of gays. I would agree that most men are more focused on gratification than emotion regarding sex. I think your hypothesis starts to break down regarding women not frequenting places such as brothels, cyberspace, etc. My reasoning is this... They don't have to. With a population of gratification hungry men they just need to be available. Women have always been in control of the 'free' relationship, they make the choice of what they want and when. Men just make it easy. While I don't know the demographic of men vs women accepting gays, I personally would think that more women would accept gays than men because they have suffered the intolerance of others and fought (are fighting) to overcome that intolerance. I would think they understand the want for equal rights and would accept and support those who were fighting to gain theirs.
1. So, just because Olbermann had an impassioned plea to his fellow man to treat each other with respect and decency, you think he is, if not actively, than passively or partially gay? I can't even begin to touch that one.
2. If you think homosexuality makes you spiritually bereft... holy crap, that's naive. First, look at most of the music produced for God in the past two thousand years. Many of those spiritual key-masters were openly gay, others it was recorded later they were. The great poets. The great literature of the world, often penned by gay men and women.
3. If you are so eager to pen my lifestyle into mere sexual gratification, I will do the same to you. Your lifestyle is cold, sterile, and meaningless. Your beliefs say that women are naught but baby factories--pleasure dumpsters for their male owners. You are ignorant of the world around you. Your beliefs exist outside the normal boundaries of evolution, and your kind will die off, pitiless and pointless. Your relationships are empty, and you are likely a homosexual.
Yes, jade, you are likely a homosexual.
I said it.
You're gay.
Totally queer.
After all, if someone issuing a plea to his fellow man to accept gay people as people first and gay second means that person is gay, I'll take the opposite tack and say that if you violently oppose the acceptance of homosexuality in America, you're quite likely gay. Thankfully, I'm a much better person than you, so I will not cast you into the pits of fire and brimstone. Because your imaginary friend in "heaven" and his imaginary enemy in "hell" do not exist. Instead, I can treat you with the respect I give to all humans. But since you're clearly a blind, malicious bastard, I will add to that respect a healthy dose of mockery. You amuse me. You're an artifact of the Puritan lifestyle that first brought people to this country. You are a palimpsest, under whose modern words and turns of phrases can be found the scratches of ancient hatred and mistrust. You are a dying breed, a species not worth saving.
Also, jade... you're gay.
Most importantly, I'm lucky that I'm not an intolerant asshole like you.
I wonder why there are more homosexual men than there are lesbians. I think the ratio is like 10 to 1. In my opinion from what I have read, I see that many straight men are more prone to accept the gay lifestyle, because they do not see the effects of what the lifestyle does to the human spirit/soul, but more in what they mostly see in it the erotic pleassures they can get.
ok... iam done.. i wanted to stir the pot cause it has been really boring on the asylum here lately...just thought i would drop in to stir some emotion.
yep...you guys still have some life left in you.
i am sure bugs will take up where I left off only his post will no doubt be well thought out and recieved.
Yeah, it's fun to stir the pot. You gonna go after black people next?
quote:
Genesis 9:25-27: "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers. He also said, 'Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem. May God extend the territory of Japheth; may Japeth live in the tents of Shem and may Canaan be his slave'. "
Noting, of course, that it was accepted by theologians that Canaan settled in Africa. The dark skin of Africans became known as the "curse of Ham" and therefore justified slavery. And by "justified slavery" I mean they used it to justify HUNDREDS OF YEARS OF SLAVERY.
i am sure bugs will take up where I left off only his post will no doubt be well thought out and recieved
I've been doing a lot of thinking about this subject for a while now to be sure. I doubt my position on this will be well received but that should never be the point anyways. We're here to share our ideas and thoughts. We should all treat each other with respect and only attack ideas we disagree with and not people.
My problem with this particular topic is it's becoming much like the abortion debate where people are so emotionally charged on the issue that rational discussion is literally obscured. I think this thread pretty much demonstrates some of that.
Personally this is a tricky one because my faith is crystal clear on the subject of homosexuality but how my faith affects my duty to society is less clear. I have to ask myself whether or not making same-sex marriage the norm for our society will hurt or help that society in the long run. This is really the crux of the matter for me. At this point it is coming down to the issue of children and the next generation and how they weigh against the personal rights of adult couples. This is very similar to the abortion problem in that it's a choice between personal rights of women versus the life of a nascent human.
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 01-07-2009 21:13
quote: Bugimus said:
duty to society
This duty should, in my opinion, ensure that laws and policies not be influenced by any flavor of relgion.
It's freedom FROM religion. Not OF.
btw what kinda of kite were you flying the other day. dual or single line? I haven't quite figured out the twitter biz yet. Must be something to do with my advanced years. =)
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?Privatize the Profits - Socialize the Losses.? Randi Rhodes
quote: NoJive said:
It's freedom FROM religion. Not OF.
Actually, it's both: it's the freedom to hold whatever religious beliefs you choose, or to abstain from religion altogether. Changing the "of" to "from" is swinging too far in the other direction.
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 01-08-2009 15:51
quote: Suho1004 said:
Changing the "of" to "from" is swinging too far in the other direction.
I always stand to be corrected but I thought freedom from, was what brought the first settlers to America. Were they not escaping from the rules of a church which were law of the land?
Yes you are free to practice the religion of your choice but I thought the basic premise was your government was to be free from religion.
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?Privatize the Profits - Socialize the Losses.? Randi Rhodes
Bugs, the reason that you will never convince me, and I will never convince you is summed up perfectly in what you said: "My faith is crystal clear on the subject of homosexuality."
You worry about how much this will "hurt" society. That's because your faith is crystal clear. You know, from your Good Book, that my lifestyle is evil and wicked, and will bring down society. Unfortunately, there's just no evidence of that. Massachusetts continues to exist, to this day. Similarly, your Good Book tells you that the earth we live on is around 5,000 years old, may well be flat, and is at the center of the universe. Unfortunately, there are mountains of evidence to the contrary. But that doesn't matter to you, because your faith is crystal clear.
And comparing this whole issue to abortion is fallacious at best. We're not talking about the definition of when life begins. Rather, we're discussing whether or not some people should be allowed to live their lives the way they feel best suits them. In much the same way as you're allowed to believe in a magical father figure who lives in the sky, I should be allowed to marry a goat if I so desire.
Why is that?
Because, at the end of the day, those choices do not impact anyone else's life. You can believe any number of fascinating things about fossils being created by God as a test of faith, or that people used to live upwards of 800 years at a time. You're allowed to think that Noah built a big boat on which he put two of each animal so that he could sail off during a flood that completely covered the planet. You're allowed to believe all that and more, because that's your God-given, government-supported right.
I'm never, ever, ever, ever going to tread on your right to believe whatever you want. THE MOMENT that you transcend belief and put that into action, wherein you take your beliefs and push them onto MY world view... Well, that's when you've crossed your God-given, government-supported rights. You've taken a piece of my right to pursue happiness. You've infringed on my God-given right to live my life the way I choose, to exercise my own free will.
And that, my dear friend, is when you exit the realm of faith, and enter the realm of fear-mongering. It is a very small step from saying homosexuals should not be afforded the rights of everyone else to Muslims are evil people and should be wiped off the face of the planet, or perhaps, enslaving the blacks is for their own good, as they lack the purity of the White Man, and maybe just an inch away from the Jews should be placed in camps where we can keep an eye on them. And I feel no shame in calling you out on it.
Please, continue to think that a marriage I would enter into with another man is going to destroy the fabric of society. PLEASE. Continue to read your Good Book and derive great moral principles and elitist propaganda. Please, endure the slings and arrows of unbelievers. Shape your life by the stories told in your stories. That is my gift to you. You're welcome.
Now, give me the same fucking rights. Just because I won't be reading the same book DOESN'T MAKE MY LIFE ANY LESS GOD-LIKE than yours.
I always stand to be corrected but I thought freedom from, was what brought the first settlers to America. Were they not escaping from the rules of a church which were law of the land?Yes you are free to practice the religion of your choice but I thought the basic premise was your government was to be free from religion.
This is a very misunderstood issue on many levels.
1) the "founding fathers" that we talk so often about were a very different group of people than the first settlers who were their ancestors.
2) there were two very distinct groups of settlers who comprised those ancestors - the puritans of New England and the Jamestown group and their followers in Virginia. To count the Puritans as the founders of the United States will do nothing but confuse things.
3) The Puritans were hardly fleeing persecution (it could as easily be argued that they were the persecutors in Europe), and were hardly looking to found a nation free from religion. The goal was precisely to found a nation based on and run via the premise of their particular and inflexible view of religion.
Freedom of religion (and freedom from religion) was a much later view. By the time of the founding of our nation, Deism was far more prevalent among the leading men than christianity, and they were sure to shape their government accordingly.
1) what is it that makes your faith "absolutely clear" about homosexuality? (Bearing in mind the obvious ridiculousness of the extremely over-cited leviticus passage)?
2) what is it about same-sex marriage that you think will harm society?
3) do you agree that homosexuality, both in terms of sexual relations and in terms of long term monogamous relationships will not be in any way reduced in society by laws that ban same-sex marriages?
4) given the absolute clarity of your faith in regard to homosexuality, what do think should be done in regard to the open and tolerated homosexuality in our society?
5) you mention in the other thread that there were "compelling arguments" on both sides of this issue. I replied that I had yet to hear any compelling arguments against the allowance of same-sex marriage. What do you offer as such?
I thought the basic premise was your government was to be free from religion
I suppose it's a matter of perspective. Looking at it from the perspective of the government, I guess you could say it is freedom "from" religion. Looking at it from an individual perspective, I guess you could say we have freedom "of" religion--that is, the freedom to hold religious beliefs or not. I think we probably agree on this, though: however you word it, Americans should be free to believe what they want without interference from the government.
Suho, this is actually one of the reasons that the Christians get so worked up about the issue of marriage recognition. They firmly believe that if/when the government recognizes gay marriage, it is an infringement on their right to practice their faith, as they believe such a recognition is an attack on their fundamental belief structures.
So, by recognizing the marriage, their own rights are being infringed upon.
The solution, actually, is to merely STOP ALL GOVERNMENT RECOGNITION OF MARRIAGE. In so doing, all rights would be brought into alignment, and no one's faith can be considered harmed. Christians can continue to have Christian marriages, Muslims can continue to have Muslim marriages, Jews can continue having Jewish marriages, and the homosexuals can squeeze in wherever there are left-leaning parishes/synagogues/temples/churches/etc that wish to recognize their marriages.
The government's involvement comes in if the pairing in question wants to have tax liabilities and end of life decision making powers, and all that sort of stuff--the truly civil actions. And for those, you just gotta have a certificate signed by a justice of the peace. And this is where Obama wants to take us, and this is where the Fundamentalists are pushing us, and this is the inevitable outcome.
Unfortunately for those who are fighting it, this is going to remove a lot of the government sponsored recognition that they should have never received. But as the primary purpose of government is to protect the minority from the majority, this is just how things go. The powerful must give up certain things to the weak, the majority must accede to the minority. Without this balance, without this protection, we as a civilization fall.
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 01-09-2009 19:11
quote: twItch^ said:
tax liabilities and end of life decision making powers, and all that sort of stuff--the truly civil actions
This is the sort of thing that troubles me most. I know this couple who've been together forever and 6 days and one is suffering with early onset alzhiemers..has for several years now and clearly he's in decline. The other not only has to suffer what Nancy Regan called "The Long Goodbye" (the only thing that woman ever said that made any sense btw) but the other had to go through hell to make sure all "paper work" was in order. If you're committed you're committed. Why should it be any different for a homosexual couple than it is for a heterosexual couple? Makes no sense.
quote: twItch^ said:
I should be allowed to marry a goat if I so desire.
One way to get kids. ~rimshot~
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?Privatize the Profits - Socialize the Losses.? Randi Rhodes
From: Out on the Sea of Madness... Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 02-18-2009 07:03
Interesting. I've been away from the Asylum for ages now, come back and find a thread on gay marriage where jade is still posting batshit insane things and there's no consensus.
Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose, n'est-ce pas?
(Or something like that, my French is old and rusty now from disuse.)
From: Out on the Sea of Madness... Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 02-19-2009 19:00
quote: twItch^ said:
oh, there's a consensus... I FUCKING WIN, MAN. I WIN!1!!!-S
Only if you make a yaoi manga of it, then I'll agree that U R TEH WINNAH!!
Thanks, WebShaman. Came looking for something and decided to poke around the Silliness forum and found this. I have to remind myself to check dates before I reply to threads though; don't want to necro some months old posts.
I should be allowed to marry a goat if I so desire.
quote: NoJive said:
One way to get kids. ~rimshot~
LOL! While that's so bad it's hilarious, the real difference here is that both parties are not obviously consenting. How can one prove that a goat has consented to own half of all your worldly goods?
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I thought this thread had died a death already.
My worthless opinion is that gay marriage is no more silly than the institution of marriage (as it stands) full stop. That there are small-minded bigots out there who feel that their superstitious nonsense should have any bearing on what, by all accounts, should be a civil matter is merely a reflection of their need to impose the rules (or those rules they've selected from a great number of contradictory passages) of their chosen cult upon the rest of the world at large.
I thoroughly believe that state and church should be distinct and distinguishable. The state serves the people (or bloody-well should) and the people want the right to a legal interest in the ones they love - this should be enough to make heterosexual and homosexual marriage indistinguishable by law.
A belief I feel should be shared, that I have no qualms about imposing upon others, is that all humans have the right to live with the same rights and freedoms as every other human. They should not be distinguishable by law, in sex, colour or creed.
Of course, I'm probably a hypocrite, and personally, I don't respect all people's beliefs. If my neighbour beat his wife and kids on a daily basis, it wouldn't matter one iota if he argued "it's my right, as it's allowed in my culture/religion". I don't give a shite if he thinks that some blah-thousand year-old preacher has final say on whether or not he can class his wife as sub-human - I'll still kick his door in and throw him through the window. His beliefs would contradict my sense of right and wrong... the difference for me is that my sense of right and wrong are not driven by some drivel penned by an aging cult.
Ah, crap. I don't even know where I'm going with this, but I do know I could go a lot further without contending with Jade for the crazy crown...
posted 11-12-2008 16:13
