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lallous
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Lebanon
Insane since: May 2001

IP logged posted posted 07-22-2009 10:21 Edit Quote

hi guys,

i think it is my time to buy one of those.

what do you advise per your experience?

(game availability, accessories, online play, ...)

--
Regards,
Elias

Blaise
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: London
Insane since: Jun 2003

IP logged posted posted 07-22-2009 11:50 Edit Quote

I own an Xbox 360, and a few friends of mine also own PS3's.

In my opinion as a long time gamer and with no bias for either manufacturer or system (Certainly not Microsoft!) I would say buy an Xbox 360.

Simply put, they have won this round, there are more games available for the 360, more unique games, and it's true to say that the majority of multi-platform games run better or with less glitches than their PS3 equivalents, oh and the 360's controller is better.

The 360 came out first and developers were more accustomed to it by the time they had to develop games for the complicated PS3, games will always be developed with the 360 in mind and then ported to PS3 not the other way round.

There are only two reasons for getting a PS3 in my opinion, the online multiplayer system is free, and it has a Blu Ray player integrated.

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: The Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 07-22-2009 13:59 Edit Quote

I would recommend the XBox 360 as well - even Tekken 6 BR is going XBox (normally it is an exclusive title for Sony PS) as well as PS3.

As for companies...hard to say which one is actually worse...hehe. Manical Microsoft or Sick Sony.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

White Hawk
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: zero divided.
Insane since: May 2004

IP logged posted posted 07-22-2009 14:04 Edit Quote

The PS3 has been sabotaged by Microsoft's aggressive game-license acquisitions. It is undoubtedly the superior machine... but it lacks the title library that Microsoft has zealously monopolised.

I wouldn't bother with an XBox360, but that's because I'm a PC gamer, and all the games I really like for the XBox are available for Windows. Of course, between Games for Windows Live(*) and XBox Live hogging all the downloadable content, PS3 owners are forced to wait for game addons that may never come due to Microsoft's evil ways - the word 'monopoly' begs to be repeated. I have been playing Fallout 3 on my PC, and most of my games (Live or not) work perfectly well with the XBox360 controller I have plugged into my PC.

*- A fantastically successful scam that banks phenomenal amounts of money from hapless users who are forced to exchange real money for excessive 'points' packages that can't be refunded. As an example, if you should wish to purchase an addon that costs 800 points, you are forced to buy a thousand points; two hundred points (equal to their proportionate monetary value) now languish in your account - too little to purchase anything, but non-refundable (the money's already in Microsoft's hands). The only choice for someone wishing to make the most of their points is to buy more points... but there's no '600-point' package, so for another 800-point addon, you're still left with change. In fact, in order to ensure you've not wasted money on excess points, you must usually make more than three purchases... and then the issue comes up again the next time you want to purchase another addon! Still, you could always accumulate leftover points and use it to change you gamer tag or profile picture - only several pounds for those! *horror*

It's a shame that the XBox360 is the way to go. To buy the complete package with all addons and extras (in other words, all the standard bits that are 'missing' in the basic package), you pay as much as a standard PS3 that already possesses all those 'extras' as standard, but instead of getting a truly next-generation console, you get a bespoke gaming PC made with off-the-shelf parts that cost Microsoft bugger-all to acquire.

I actually prefer the Dual-Shock (not the weird banana) design used for PS controllers to the 'pillow' design of the XBox360 controller, but that's not perticularly important.

My opinion is this; buy an XBox360 if you want to feel like a part of some great club (that sucks all your money, makes you think you're getting some sort of value for it, and stops just shy of brainwashing you into performing special tasks to cleanse yourself of Thetans) and if you don't mind perpetuating a highly successful sabotage campaign against a superior product.

On the other hand, you could buy yourself a PS3 - get a well-priced Bluray player and truly next-gen console that is Linux-ready (yes, it has built-in support for installation of an alternative/secondary OS). The downside is that some ports will be inferior to their XBox360 cousins (part of the licensing agreement that Microsoft held for GTAIV, for instance, forced restrictions on the porting process that limited graphical performance/quality to something on a par with their own console, and introduced some frustrating issues into the PS3 version that would otherwise never have been present), and some games may never be available simply because Microsoft wanted you to join their cult first.

Or do what I did - save up a bit more and buy a gaming PC that craps on both of them, plug in a 360 controller... and hope that you can handle the odd PC-based hassle that supposedly doesn't bother console users... or does it..?

Uh... yeah, buy an XBox 360 and be the proud owner of one of the worst products for failure rates and hardware/software issues/glitches ever known, with the consolation that at least the games that Microsoft hordes are great and varied... when they work, that is...

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: The Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 07-22-2009 14:53 Edit Quote

So, in other words, buy a XBox 360, right?

On the serious side, since you are a PC Gamer, HOW ON F**KING EARTH can you support Sony, maker of SucuRom?!

Seriously WH, wtf are you thinking?!

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

Blaise
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: London
Insane since: Jun 2003

IP logged posted posted 07-22-2009 15:03 Edit Quote

What's the point in getting a truly next gen console if you've got nothing to play on it that next gen?

It may be so that the 360 has a subscription fee to play online, but you don't pay anything for demos that you can freely download to try before you buy. the experience and UI that MS have put together for the xbox is really very good, and is what is truly next gen.



(Edited by Blaise on 07-22-2009 15:04)

White Hawk
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: zero divided.
Insane since: May 2004

IP logged posted posted 07-22-2009 18:18 Edit Quote

@ Webshaman: Not at all - SecuROM has never bothered me personally. Of course, Sony's willing partner-in-crime and enabler-of-all-things-unholy is just as culpable for SecuROM; Microsoft!

@ Blaise: I like a lot of PS3 games, personally. I don't know what a lot the fuss is about... besides the fact that Microsoft have employed various tactics to acquire a majority of licenses, so depriving PS3 gamers of first whack at many new titles and addons.

I wasn't referring to the subscription fee, by the way. Despite having purchased my game for ~£14 through Steam, I had to pay Microsoft ~£17 for 2000 points in order to purchase two addons for Fallout 3, both worth 800 points each, which leaves 400 points sitting around in my Live account. That's either money wasted, or a way of strong-arming me into making further investments for more purchases in order to avoid the waste. It is precisely this sh*t that has made me seriously consider acquiring the remaining addon packs (DLCs) by less legitimate means, purely on principle.

Blaise
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: London
Insane since: Jun 2003

IP logged posted posted 07-22-2009 19:12 Edit Quote

Well, my point was, that there's nothing more next gen on the PS3 than the 360. I'm not really sure what you meant by your earlier statement.

Unless you're talking about the integrated Bluray player, but I don't get why that makes something next gen or not.

lallous
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Lebanon
Insane since: May 2001

IP logged posted posted 07-22-2009 20:42 Edit Quote

I bought a PS2 in the past just to play God Of War.
Now GoW 3 is coming for PS3.

I did not expect to hear that Xbox will be the advise from most of you guys.

Thanks for the feedback, will research more about it and take your thoughts into consideration.

--
Regards,
Elias

Arthurio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cell 3736
Insane since: Jul 2003

IP logged posted posted 07-22-2009 21:22 Edit Quote

I'm with WH here ... if you don't really need a 50" LCD TV for anything else, buy a gaming pc instead ... because it can do so much more than just games. If you like the controllers - hook em up to the pc, if you like the big screen - then hook that up to the pc too... if you want to have some fun with a few friends of family once a week ... get a Wii ...

Logitech rumblepad 2 is a nice option I think if you're into pc gaming with a gamepad ... really good quality construction, good software that allows custom, automatic profiles for games.
I generally dislike (ported shitty console) games that require gamepads to play but sometimes I use my rumblepad for racing games ... keyboard and mice combo is the way to go for most others. Steam is a nice option too if you don't mind not having physical media - for me it suits perfectly. When I re-install windows all I need to do afterwards is install Steam and choose which games I want to play. By next day all the games I want will be downloaded, installed, updated to the latest version and ready to play. 12mbit downstream helps ofc.

All the games I know are better on PC or shitty to begin with ... except for guitar hero ...

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: The Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 07-23-2009 02:15 Edit Quote
quote:
@ Webshaman: Not at all - SecuROM has never bothered me personally. Of course, Sony's willing partner-in-crime and enabler-of-all-things-unholy is just as culpable for SecuROM; Microsoft!



I could go into a lot of technical details about how wrong you are about SucuRom here - and about SBlade, who has been investigating SucuRom for awhile now - how it can destroy CD-DVD drives.

I, like many thousands of customers, have been "bitten" by SucuRom before. That you haven't yet is meaningless - the more PC games that you play, the greater the risk that eventually you will be affected. It is just a matter of time.

I used to think much as you do - SucuRom It has never caused *me* any problems...but then one day it did (with NWN2) and for 3 weeks I could not play a game that I had paid for at all, until a patch came out eliminating the problem for me. Had that patch not come out (and it was not brought out by Sony, btw), I would have been stuck with a rather expensive piece of plastic.

You don't think SucuRom is affecting your PC? Try running Processor Explorer (a better Task Manager than the windows version) and boot up a SucuRom-ridden DVD of your choice.

It will not run as long as Processor Explorer is active. Try Alcohol X% (doesn't matter which version) or any number of programs that create virtual drives.

So now you have Sony telling you what programs you are not allowed to run on your PC when you want to play games!

The real nasty "suprise" is whyt it can do physically to your CD/DVD drive, however. And yes, this stuff is documented (though Sony is doing everything it can to keep this stuff out of the limelight - like hitting anyone trying to publish it with a lawsuit immediately). If you want to know just how insidious SucuRom is, I can put you in contact with SBlade and I am sure he will be able to provide you with all the proof you will ever need.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

Blaise
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: London
Insane since: Jun 2003

IP logged posted posted 07-23-2009 10:36 Edit Quote

Anyway, a PC costs at the very least twice as much to run the same games as a console, and besides the latest games these days (not including some RPG's and RTS's) are written first for the consoles then ported to PC, just look at Gears of War and Assassins Creed for example.

At least with a console you know that for as long as games are released for it, they will run flawlessly compared to a PC of the same age.

Arthurio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cell 3736
Insane since: Jul 2003

IP logged posted posted 07-23-2009 13:26 Edit Quote

I agree that a gaming pc is more expensive but I would argue that you also get at least 5 times as much value out of it.

I would think that most rts, fps, mmo (and casual) games are made for pc first but that's just my opinion ... we need real numbers. Anyway it's meaningless to brag which games are made for consoles first and then ported because consoles are the more limited systems and that's why interfaces are designed for them first.

I've looked around on the web a bit and I don't think that anyone has any meaningful sales aggregates for pc games... there are many comparisons between consoles but not much for pc, the reasons are ofc simple: there's no central entity that would keep track of pc games sales.

edit: Today's consoles aren't built to last. It will become very obvious in the next few years.

(Edited by Arthurio on 07-23-2009 13:31)

White Hawk
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: zero divided.
Insane since: May 2004

IP logged posted posted 07-23-2009 14:33 Edit Quote

@ Webshaman: No, it doesn't bother me because I um... well... 'work around' it. There are plenty of ways to skin that cat. Simplest; buy a single-player game you like, don't install it; download it from TPB; install that. There you go - legally owned game, SecuROM-free version installed. I don't give a flying blue monkey what the law says about that because it's my machine, and I can hack the crap out of it if I want. As for online games, I stick with media-less (Steam, EADM, GFWL). Other games, I install with 'no-cd' cracks; I hate having to dust off my discs every time I want to kill hordes of marauding pixels...

Unless your optical drive is several years old, you shouldn't suffer any damage because of SecuROM. If it's old enough not to fully support SecuROM's access methods, it's got to be a lot older than the machine you're trying to run the game on... unless you like playing at 0.5fps...

I have two or three virtual drive tools running on my machine, and at least one virtual drive active all the time (I'm always using the damn thing, so there's no point in disabling it), yet every game I have runs fine (admittedly, in ways less than entirely legitimate). I still have SecuROM on my machine as EADM requires it, but it's not going to do any damage in that respect, as those games are media-less and they run regardless of my virtual drive(s) (it doesn't have an issue when it's not looking for a disc).

Should I be afraid that SecuROM is sharing my girlfriend's bra size with the world whenever I run a game through EADM? I think a lot of the hype surrounding SecuROM's 'spyware' allegations are just hysteria.

quote:
...boot up a SucuRom-ridden DVD of your choice.



Um... no. I simply will not do that. I only ever buy single-player games on disc - then crack/hack them into submission. The only time I use the original media is when the game gets installed (and even then, I usually use other sources for installation). Multiplayer online games I purchase as media-less - no disc, no crack, no hassle. This is why it doesn't bother me - it bothers 'legitimate' users more than phreaks like me (or, in fact and far more importantly, pirates). If 'legitimate' users are incapable or scared of using Google (or making use of resources like gamecopyworld) they really should stick to consoles, anyway, and perhaps buy an Apple as their PC... sucks for games and actively discourages intelligent or advanced users.

Are you referring to the SBlade from the Daemon Tools forums? He has a few interesting things to say, but it makes no real difference to my thinking.
_____

@ Blaise: Console gamers have just as many problems with games that don't work as advertised nowadays, on both the XBox360 and the PS3. Even on the Megadrive/SNES there were games that caused massive slowdown or suffered from glitches - that has never changed. Yes, it should be the case that things run as they were designed to run on the systems they were designed to run on... but it simply is not the case. At least with PCs, you have countless methods and options for dealing with potential issues, and the software patching process is far more convenient and expedient.

As for cost - for just a couple of hundred quid more than the cost of a PS3/XBox360 (assume full packages) I could build you a machine that will play GTAIV very well, and at higher quality settings than you'll see on either console. In the long run, particularly with downloadable game services like Steam, you save yourself a fortune in game prices (I usually wait till prices drop anyway, but they are generally lower through these services than they are in the shops). I get a lot of games on deals, bundles, or sales weekends - I reckon I've saved more on those games than I spent on my G-15 keyboard, Razer Diamondback mouse, or XBox360 controller...

Next-gen is not referring to the software - there's no such thing! There aren't any new genres - just hybrids, crossovers, and graphics/physics improvements. The hardware in the PS3, on the other hand, is decidedly 'next-gen'. The PS3 is superior to the XBox 360 in all ways but licensing; and no, I'm not dismissing the licensing issue out of hand - it highlights the dirty methods used by console manufacturers to ensure their market share. Regardless, it makes no difference to the fact that the PS3 is simply a more powerful, advanced, and evolved console than the XBox 360... if only it had games you'd like.

Again - it's easy as 1-2-3 to get Linux onto your PS3 and use it as a PC, if you were so inclined... and yes, I would be!
_____

@ Arthurio: I very much prefer to purchase the majority of my games through download services. Lose the discs for a game and you're buggered unless you remembered to keep the serial number and receipt, and don't mind paying for a replacement disc after phoning a premium-rate phone number for half an hour. Buy it online and you've got access to it from any machine connected to the internet, for life (though there are limits to the number of installs you can perform in a given time period - but who needs five installations of Battlefield over the next six months, anyway).

I agree about control pads. I rarely use them unless for racing. If you plan to play games that are designed for Games for Windows Live, you may run ionto issues. No pad but the XBox 360 controller works properly with GTAIV for isntance, and I'm pretty sure that the lack of quick fixes in this regard are a deliberate ploy to get people paying Microsoft for their hardware - call me cynical if you like.

Addendum (I'm slow today):

I heartily agree with you, again, Arthurio. PC games are far more rewarding for several reasons. Take Fallout 3 for example - I have access to the same DLC as XBox users (which are denied to PS3 users), but I also have access to thousands of mods and addons that are not so official. Just outside Megaton, I have my 'Hover Chair' parked up outside my personal Vault (which has many cool toys and features to play with), Dogmeat is a pack mule (can carry stuff for me) and wears leather armour, Moriarty's bar is now a strip joint (woot), my plasma rifle sears the flesh from the skeleton (rather than vaporising the target), and the list goes on and on. Can't have any of that on any console!

quote:
Today's consoles aren't built to last. It will become very obvious in the next few years.



Already evident... very evident. Check the links in my previous post.

(Edited by White Hawk on 07-23-2009 14:47)

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: The Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 07-23-2009 14:44 Edit Quote

Well, since your opinion is set in stone, no use wasting words here.

For the record, SucuRom destroys modern CD/DVD drives as well as older ones, for reasons you have not mentioned.

But perhaps that is a different cat to be skinned.

The SBlade that I have mentioned may well be the one on the Daemon Forum - he is active all over the net (especially when it is dealing with SucuRom). One can safely refer to him as a Guru on SucuRom - and when he says it can (and has) destroyed CD/DVD drives and offers the proof, well, that is where my money lies.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

White Hawk
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: zero divided.
Insane since: May 2004

IP logged posted posted 07-23-2009 15:08 Edit Quote

Fair enough - though my opinion may seem set, my methods are pretty dynamic, and I continue to make as much use of no-cd cracks, mini images, launchers/loaders, and hacks as is required to avoid just such wear and tear on my optical drives and/or discs.

Suffice it to say, this isn't really the issue for console users. Based on these arguments, the choices are:

Buy a PC; best games library, full stop. More expensive to get started (scale depends upon desire) but more rewarding... though also perhaps, more work. OMG - ph34r the SecuROM! Play online for free.

Buy an XBox 360; re-hashed old-gen console with a great collection of games for the most part, but with ongoing hardware/design problems that can prove to be expensive and frustrating time-killers. Pay for online gaming.

Buy a PS3; a more powerful console (though not 'twice as powerful' by any stretch) with in-built support for Linux, that is generally criticised for not having a better games library, has exceptional build quality, but suffers from a sloppy-seconds affair with MS. Play online for free.

Not much of a choice, is it?



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