Preserved Topic: Asylum DnD...Veneficuz's campaign (Page 1 of 1)

Continued from here: http://www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum1/HTML/006473.html

So Ven...are we on for this weekend? GMT 1100 as usual? C'mon! Speak up!

*Starts hunting the halls for V*

Come out, come out, wherever you are, V.

I'm here somewhere, just been really bussy with school things lately and it probably stay the same the rest of the semester as well. I rarely connect to the Internett through my home computer anymore since I'm rarely home, so those who want to contact me should send a mail..

GMT 1100 sounds good to me

_________________________
"There are 10 kinds of people; those who know binary, those who don't and those who start counting at zero"

Woohooo! 11:00 GMT it is...

In the immortal words of the Thing 'It's clobbering time!' - Marvel


WebShaman

Whew! Well, I'm glad to hear that bit of news. I'll be gone most of tomorrow, and I probably won't get back until shortly before the session--I didn't want to come back just to find out that we weren't playing.

Oh, WS: I know you're probably going to kill me, but don't be surprised to see a slightly modified version of Telana tomorrow...

Yeehaw, Made my deadline and finally got some sleep. Sorry I hadn't a been able to post for a while. Like suho said, I'm ready to play. I can't wait to use the new minis. Hopefully Skarrjj's dice won't show up.

Oh tell me about it. I'm about ot go out and make a blood sacriffice to Boccob to pray that the cursed dice of Indemar do not return this session.

If they roll like the used to three times in a row I'm just going to add 8 to all my rolls.

And so the hour approaches...54 minutes and counting.

* power word: bump *

Who's up for this weekend? Saturday GMT 1100?

I'm afraid this will be the last session for a while I'll be occupied the weekends between March 8th and March 29th. Going to France one weekend, a science conference the other and an 'almost national capoerira workshop' the third weekend...
_________________________
"There are 10 kinds of people; those who know binary, those who don't and those who start counting at zero"

[This message has been edited by Veneficuz (edited 02-24-2003).]

This coming Saturday is a holiday here, so I will not be able to make it. I can do 1100 GMT on Sunday, though.

I can make it on Sunday, 11:00 GMT...who else?

I'm in...

Damn.. Sunday isn't a very good day for me. Promised to help my girlfriend fix her appartment on Sunday, and night to Sunday I'm at a local concert so I wouldn't have been able to make GMT 1100 anyway...

_________________________
"There are 10 kinds of people; those who know binary, those who don't and those who start counting at zero"

*Kicks V*

Dammit...oh well...maybe PT has more time on Sunday? On the other hand, it gives me more time to play Neverwinter nights *yaaah!*

At the moment, I can do any time. My social life isn't down and dying, but it's definitely at less than 20% of its hit points at the moment. (In the Dragonhunt, that would mean "watch out, it's likely to do a desperation move to even things up.")

WS: You play NWN? I used to play that all the time! I still have it installed on my computer, in fact... not that I really have the time to mess around with it anymore.

PT: What's a "social life?"

Well, Master Suho, I downloaded the Demo...and liked it so much, I ordered the game...I'm really interested in the Building part of NWN...that is just awesome! Also, one could do with Neverwinter Nights, what we are doing with OpenRPG...just the graphics are much, much better...the DM part of Neverwinter Nights is also awesome. In fact, NWN is just plain awesome...and the support for the game is incredible...there are over 2000+ 'modules' for it...it would be cool, to get a few members here going on a server...I really like the 'action scripting', dungeon building, creature creation and well, just about everything about the Builder part...it's really cool. Why did you stop playing, BTW?

IMHO, it's much better than OpenRPG...anybody else playing NWN?

PT, you name the time...

Why did I stop playing? Well, I had a group of friends that I knew in university and we used to get together for sessions. It was indeed a lot of fun, bit it started becoming a bit too much like Diablo (not that I've ever played Diablo, but that's what I've heard). It was basically a race to see who could get to the treasure the fastest, and we had very little teamwork going on. Also, there was practically no role-playing.

I loved NWN, I did. Yeah, so it burned out my graphics card, but that's the price you pay, right? When it comes down to it, though, it is not what I was hoping it would be--a substitute for a PnP game. It is an action game, plain and simple, very heavy in combat. If you play with a DM he or she may be able to introduce an actual story and some roleplaying, but it's not easy (and no one in our group wanted to be DM, either), and things usual revert to the old hack and slash.

Not that it's not fun--it is. But I wouldn't say it is better than OpenRPG. Then again, this may also have had something to do with the group of people I played with, but I don't think that was entirely it.

That being said, if we had a bunch of NWN people who wanted to get together and play for a few hours once a week, I'd give it a shot. But if we did that I don't think I'd be able to do an OpenRPG campaign as well. And at this point, to be honest with you, I'd rather play OpenRPG than NWN...

As for the building part, yes, it is extremely cool, and I even started building my own module--but that sort of thing takes a lot of time, and I just don't have that sort of time to invest anymore... I don't know if I'll ever finish that module. And I had some really good ideas, too.

Heck, I had a little Dragonhunt module going for a little while. I was really making Gereval's "Dirty Fifth" come to life -- street merchants who'd yell out to you when you step close enough (and would remember your name), a dance club with rotating musical tracks, custom-scaled dragons that were HUGE (that is, normal dragon size, not those teeny little NWN dragons), and some truly beautiful-looking Heaven Knight armor. In fact, if you notice that most military and paramilitary insignia in the Dragonhunt are single epaulettes, that's something I came up with in the NWN editor.

But, as Suho said, no time. I've actually traded in my NWN, and deleted everything I worked on. Sure, I shed a little tear, but so what? It had a little fun working on it. It was just too much work for what would have been a half-hour of fun. Long-term benefit? NWScript opened my eyes to the benefits of strict data typing. PHP seems hopelessly sloppy now.

edit: Neverwinter Nights can do everything OpenRPG can? Wrong. Neverwinter Nights shackles the imagination; OpenRPG is simply a conduit for the imagination. I can easily type "okay, I climb up to a rooftop, then cast a custom researched spell, then go to a place the DM wasn't expecting me to." In Neverwinter Nights, I cannot do any of those three things, ever... you can jury-rig some hacks, but they're insufficient.

NWN is tremendously expandable (just look at the Hardcore Ruleset for proof)... but I have a feeling that the human imagination is more flexible and customizable than a computer program, at least for a few more years.

Honestly, comparing NWN to OpenRPG is comparing apples and oranges. NWN is a computer role-playing game with a strong multiplayer element. OpenRPG is an application that allows a traditional pen-and-paper RPG. It might be possible to bridge the gap some time down the road, but NWN -- despite a valiant and pivotal attempt -- does not do so.

[This message has been edited by Perfect Thunder (edited 02-26-2003).]

That's too bad, that your first PvP experience was so, Master Suho. One could make the game even better than OpenRPG...by one person being the DM. That puts an emphasis on the role-playing aspect, as the DM has complete control over every aspect of the game, including the creatures, NPCs, etc (including halting the current creatures action script). With the right DM and players, one would have an incredible role-playing environment, which would leave practically nothing to desire. In that sense, NWN has the potential to be much better than OpenRPG...as long as one doesn't have a bunch of hack-n-slash idiots in the party...or a DM that has no idea of what role-playing is...

PT, that sounds interesting...

quote:

---

Honestly, comparing NWN to OpenRPG is comparing apples and oranges. NWN is a computer role-playing game with a strong multiplayer element. OpenRPG is an application that allows a traditional pen-and-paper RPG. It might be possible to bridge the gap some time down the road, but NWN -- despite a valiant and pivotal attempt -- does not do so.

---

I couldn't have said it any better. NWN does not come anywhere close to replacing PnP, and whether you have a DM running the game or not, there are going to be plenty of things that you just can't do. I prefer OpenRPG because I prefer the type of game you can play with it. I loved NWN for what it was, but when it comes right down to it, I'd rather play a PnP game any day. But that's just me...

Yup, I hear that...PnP is the best...it's just that there are no players in my area *sigh*

In light of that, we have OpenRPG. This allows us to at least simulate PnP...albeit in 2D. NWN allows one to do it in 3D...which is one step up, IMHO...

But nothing is as good as PnP...on that, we agree.

What I'm saying is that Neverwinter Nights has giant limitations that a game played entirely through textual narration does not. It doesn't matter if NWN is more realistic-looking and pretty; there are things you can't do, there are decisions you can't make, things play out in a very specific way that is difficult to customize, there's a giant discrepancy between DM effort and player reward. Combat is a Diablo-like mess which doesn't allow for DM fudging, heroic flourishes or tactical trickery. Most importantly, the graphics themselves are limiting: how can the DM evoke a unique sense of place if what he wants to do isn't in the tileset? It's one thing to say "you're in an alien cathedral made entirely of pearl and diamond -- gossamer golden angel-like beings drift through the vaulted arches, leaving smeary trails of light behind them" and quite another to say "pretend this generic castle tileset is something completely different." It's just not nearly as flexible a medium.

[This message has been edited by Perfect Thunder (edited 02-27-2003).]

By making the tile set yourself. In fact, one can make just about anything in NWN. You just need the tools, time, and expertise.

Look. OpenRPG is very similiar...that's why I created the Min page. Otherwise, you are left playing with blue and red dots (or somesuch). Granted, that works. However, it is not very conducive to atmosphere...and not to real role-playing...such as

Players : Well, what kind of creature is that?

DM : Hmm...I don't have a graphic...so it's a *insert appropriate name*

Players : Ahhh...so it's one of those...here is what we do.

Now, of course, one can do that a bit differently, as DM...but a graphic is worth a thousand words...esp. specific graphics, of that love-to-hate villian...nothing gets a group going like that...'Look! It's so-and-so...get him!'

Now, there are some things which are easier to do in OpenRPG...like trying to jump from a table, and smash an opponent with a Greathammer...which is difficult to do in NWN...(you'd have to really customize the module, to allow this...possible, but difficult). But as I found out, it was difficult to do in OpenRPG (damn Dex!)...hehe...

But seriously, NWN does have the possibility of becoming a '3-d' version of OpenRPG...It's still in its infancy. This is what really appeals to me, about NWN...that one could modify it to do what OpenRPG is so good for - as a way of playing PnP over the internet, with graphic aid.

Well, we will see...I'm just getting started on the Building part in NWN...and I just wanted to draw attention to this...let's get back to the original topic...

Sorry to go off subject folks, but I am not going to b available this weekend. I have to attend a wedding and I'm under some serious deadline pressures due to the impending war with Iraq.

March will actually be pretty bad for me but to help y'all plan play times here's what my month looks like:

Mar. 8-9, can play
Mar 15-16, parents coming to visit from Colorado
Mar. 22-23 can play
Mar. 29-30 I'll be in San Francisco at the Flash Forward conference.

If you all can find a way to play without me, It's np. Sorry I can't play this weekend.

--tiki

Damn...guess this means PT is up...PT, you available to play on Saturday, 11:00 GMT?

Aye. See you there!

But to get back to the subject ( )...

I consider the graphics issue to be the least of the issues that PT raised... whether or not you can make your own tilesets doesn't change the fact that a whole lot of things are just not possible in NWN. And who has time to make tilesets?

I do understand the frustration of not having a local group to play with, though...

Anyway, have fun this weekend. I'll be visiting my wife's family and hopefully eating too much.

??

What things cannot be done?? Up until you said that...I haven't encountered much that couldn't be done...maybe you haven't visited Bioware's website lately...there are so many new tools there...it makes building in NWN a lot of fun...not to mention The Vault...it has a lot of resources...a ton of resources, actually...it's pretty cool...action scripts, skins, models, new hakpaks, etc...great stuff...

Have fun with the family, Master Suho...treasured moments...

Can you say 'ok...I climbed this wall jumped over to that roof and cast this custom reasearch spell, here's the rollers, blammo, enemies dead' in NWN and actually have it happen? Without a lot of custom programming?

Heh. You really are assuming a lot in that, as well, Skaarjj..custom made research spell...takes a while to do that in any campaign, irregardless of the setting. Doing the actions that you suggest, would take a number of rolls...and decisions on part of the player and DM...also irregardless of setting.

Could one do it in NWN? Some of it...custom spell, no problem. Jumping over the wall would have to be custom scripted (I think). However, it could be that such already exits (there are literally thousands of custom scripts available...). As I said, I'm just getting into this...but it looks really promising. Of course, the DM in NWN could just say 'Ok, you succeed (a couple of rolls later)' - and move your character over the wall (easy to do as the DM) - and activate the spell...no problem. So yes, one could do everything you just described...without using custom scripts. However, if you actually wished to see your character doing this, then one would probably need custom scripts for some of it...I think the jumping over wall would be one (wouldn't be all that hard, though...)

The custom spell would be easy...just need to make it, attach the spell affects, and *boom* there it is, ready to go...and you would be able to 'see' it working...coolness.

Well, hey. I guess I've made all my points already... DM/builder shoulders tremendous burden of time and effort; things not planned by the game designers require hacking, kludges, or pure imagination (flight, for example); increased realism decreases play of imagination (it's like the difference between a movie and a book)... so I don't have anything more to say about Neverwinter Nights. (Have you done the research on custom spells? Unless there's been a big change since six months ago, they really are nearly impossible, especially if you want to share them with a multiplayer group. I'd be delighted to hear that they've fixed that problem. Who knows, maybe they did?)

I mean, it's not like I don't see where you're coming from -- I built 30% of a module, just like everyone else. I played online with my friends, we bantered and roleplayed, it was moderately fun. I looked at all the custom content out there, I downloaded NWScript and analyzed it, I wrote custom AI for enemies. (My masterpiece was a rogue who used Dragonhunt-style fighting techniques -- he'd make Sap attempts until you were stunned, he'd stop fighting long enough to taunt you with custom text, he'd teleport back out of range just as you recovered, he'd shoot flaming arrow at you. Get him down to 20% health and he'd summon a veil of darkness and teleport right behind you for a free sneak attack. Trust me... I know how scriptable NWN is.)

But spending days building a city, scripting NPCs, writing NPC dialogue, importing music, and so forth just didn't compare to spending five minutes describing it in words; and the end result was not nearly as evocative and interesting. So, it could well be a matter of preference. Maybe my imagination just works better -- I like red and blue dots just fine, and I don't really care that much about miniatures. I don't see a red dot or a blue dot... I see the person or monster that it represents. Back in my friend's basement, we played D&D with old game pieces. A certain chesspiece came to represent one of the recurring bad guys. I saw that chesspiece come out, I saw him. That's what role-playing games are about, to me; imagination is all I need.

[This message has been edited by Perfect Thunder (edited 02-28-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Perfect Thunder (edited 02-28-2003).]

quote:

---

What things cannot be done??

---

Well, WS, before I answer, I must say that I have a strange feeling that we're going around in circles. You are apparently still in the "honeymoon" stage with NWN, which is fine, but there is plenty that you can't do with NWN. PT already mentioned a bunch of stuff, of course. NWN maps, for instance, are basically just 3D mazes, and if there is an obstacle you have no choice but to go around it. For example, you can't swim, you can't scale cliffs, and you can't (as PT said) fly. Along the same lines, you can only teleport if you find a teleporter that has been placed in the game. You are basically limited to actions that the module builder has planned, and that's it. No matter which way you cut it, it is always going to be more linear than a PnP (or OpenRPG) game.

But, like I said, we're going around in circles. We are comparing apples and oranges here, and as long as we realize that, then that's cool. I just don't think that NWN is as flexible as you think it is.

PT: I didn't even get %30 of the way through my module.

Hmmm...honeymoon stage? Actually, before I started playing NWN, I was playing POR II : Ruins of Myth Drannor...don't even wish to mention the problems...crappiest piece of s**t I've ever played...

So, maybe you are right, Master Suho...but for different reasons...coming from that...thing, yeah, that's about all I can say to describe it, and going to NWN is like a breath of fresh air...all the things I bitterly missed in POR II I found and enjoy in NWN...I even find NWN much better than Balder's Gate...and with the Henchmen hack, can even equip my henchmen. Yaaahhh!

But whatever...

As for the Builder part...haven't got quite started yet...been reading up on everything at Bioware's website first...lots (tons) of information there...I think my first module will be small...just a neat little 0 lvl dungeon-type thing...with lots of role-playing elements, and little actual combat. Start small, build big.

And NWN cannot really be compared to PnP...I know that. Nothing beats the actual...being together experience. But it is the closest that a program has come yet...IMHO. The fact that one can creat their own stuff, and that Bioware included the tools to do this, are just icing on the cake. Yes, I'm having fun with the game...but I'm really interested in the building part...I'll keep you updated, on my progress, thoughts, opinions, problems, fustrations, etc...as I encounter them.

FWIW...one could convert the tile sets from OpenRPG, to work in NWN rather easily...

Well, I'll tell you what, WS: if you manage to stick with it and build yourself an entire module, I will gladly join an Asylum test group. I haven't actually played NWN in ages (at least it seems like ages), and I wouldn't mind taking a crack at a fresh new module (can I use my lvl 19 monk? ;-).

*cough*Woo! Lots of dust on this one. OK...since I'm all netted up again, how about we aim to continue the DnD campaigns this weekend? I'm free almost any time.

Too much dust, Skaarjj. I'm out. Too many things to shuffle, too many unresolved problems that were put on hold, too many scheduling troubles.

Cell 1250 :: alanmacdougall.com :: Illustrator tips

5 months of inactivity and the thread is still here.. amazing Would be really fun to revive the campaign. Haven't thought much about it lately so my notes are probably hidden deep inside a drawer, but with some luck I'll be able to find them. But either way I remember enough to recreate most of it.

I can play either very early Saturday my time, have to finish before GMT 0730 so I can get to work. Or Saturday evening/night, anytime after GMT 1700 as long as we finish before GMT 0700 on Sunday



_________________________
"There are 10 kinds of people; those who know binary, those who don't and those who start counting at zero"

Hey, I've got some time alone coming soon.
I might be up for a one-shot or a sit-in.