Topic awaiting preservation: More scary stuff to look faorward to...

Can this be real? (the part regarding Microsofts future plans)
http://kimber-ja.demon.co.uk/Docs/palladium.txt



[This message has been edited by Xpirex (edited 07-24-2003).]

Yep. Palladium's gonna be a bitch.

I've resolved that Win2000 is the last OS I'll be using from Micro$oft.
Any Linux geeks in here care to comment?

Ack! VSBOD!!

And I second ozphactor's sentiments. I have no idea what the fuck Microsoft is thinking but they look like they're going to be making the same mistakes AOL just made and start losing customers by the assload*.


*assload (ass-load) n. - lit. the amount of weight an ass can carry. The total amount varies but is reputed to be quite a large amount.

Xpirex: I started a thread on Paladium last year but I really don't think it is going to sink in until it is here and we are all screwed.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I refuse to be screwed!

I remember when people used to joke about Micro$oft's schemes of "global domination". I think we can safely say that this no longer qualifies as a joke. It's dead real and it's coming to a computer near you.

[EDIT: Feel free to sign some >petitions< while you're at it. It won't help shit, but it feels good to have some backing.]



[This message has been edited by ozphactor (edited 07-24-2003).]

[This message has been edited by ozphactor (edited 07-24-2003).]

Actually, the scary thing is that Microsoft is being a little reluctant to release all of this information. Instead, they are hailing Longhorn (What Palladium runs under) as a security revolution, so the majority of the public will run to their local Fry's and buy it.

I use XP pro right now, 2000 pro before that, and if Longhorn actually goes through, Linux next. (Although I'd still run XP or 2000 for my PS and Painter.)

--

(EDIT: Oh yes, you might want to look up the Fritz chip. Even scarier.)

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 07-24-2003).]

*Just one more reason why I love my old mac...*

I knew that Microsoft was in league with the forces of Hell! I knew it!!!

I thought that I hated XP but after seeing this it makes XP looks as attractive as 2000.

Here is the previous discussion:
www.ozoneasylum.com/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20020930-1-004894.html
www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum1/HTML/007220.html

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

It sounds a little too far fetched to me, I think there's some huge exagerations in there. It's basically saying that there's going to be supporting of monopolies, Microsoft have already been spanked for this, and I don't see how it'll happen again.

Anyway, didn't they say that all this would happen with windows 95?

Blaise

There's no way that this would *ever* happen.

#1: If everything in that article is infact true, who the FUCK in their right mind would pay money to be jerked around like that?
#2: Some if not most of the things the article says M$ plans to do have to be illegal. I mean, come on - M$ could potential read the contents of my computer and DELETE whatever they deem "inappropriate" ? I don't fucking think so...

I just don't buy it.

quote:

---

If everything in that article is infact true, who the FUCK in their right mind would pay money to be jerked around like that

---

The ones who don't know any better ( = most of the world). And the ones who don't think such things could be true, or even scarier, the ones who think "they wouldn't do something like that!"

And it doesn't help that Micro$oft is promoting this as a "security" feature.

Huh.

Secure for who? The customer, or MS?

I wouldn't be surprised if they make this a gradual thing. Very very gradual. But there's gotta be some major problems with all this...

#1 What the fuck are they gonna do when 50% of the internet uses Pre/non-Palladium stuff and 50% does? The internet would be effectively divided in half and all hell would be breaking loose, unless they have a temporary disable plan going.

#2 Hackers / Crackers etc are gonna have a field day, I don't care how good MS thinks they're code etc is, when 80% of the hackers in the world could be devoted to breaking they're code so that they can use pirated software and mp3s, or whatever.

#3 MS has gotten busted once for monopoly stuff, this is going farther than they were going before.

#4 Wouldn't it be illegal to do that stuff like making your documents invalid if you in fact own the data within, no matter if the format your data is in is not yours? Okay, that was an idiotic statement, but I don't see how I could say it another way, heh. I'm not even going to get into that forcing people to update crap, either. I can see this stuff happening for mp3's maybe, but when they hit applications and file formats, I'll go find Bill himself and take a piss on him.

#5 How the hell would they tag all this stuff? I don't even wanna get into how many different documents, programs, versions, updates, web pages, and files in general there are on the net. It's unthinkable that they could tag every single file generated to lock them down when they please. And people could quite easily do a copy/paste and add an extra "space" at the end of the document, repeatedely, making other variations etc to confuse the tag stuff.

All sounds a bit radical and extreme doesn't it? But the theoeretical structure of these plans indicate these people are not joking. It seems to have been thought out very thoroughly. God nothing suprises me anymore but this stuff is pretty mad. If it happens then I for one will abandon the whole system... and go back to playing guitar..

I say we abolish computers and the Internet all together and go live in a shack in the woods.

The problem is that the "Fritz" chip is going to enforce this. AMD and Intel have agreed to ship it in their mobo's which enforces Palladium's security features.

*Very low, resonating bass sound*

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 07-25-2003).]

http://www.stoppalladium.org

actually, I've wondered what I'm gonna do if and when this rolls around and the solution is quite simple-

I already have Linux Boxes ready to let me do whatever the fuck I want with them, they won't touch the 'good computers' running Palladium/Longhorn and connected to the internet except to burn my files to CDs and disks and swap between them...

Palladium/DRM/TCPA -- KissMyAss/Linux -- Back again...

To mod a popular phrase: "They can have my Linux box when they pry it from my cold dead hands."


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

[This message has been edited by Petskull (edited 07-25-2003).]

Click

...and Click

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 07-25-2003).]

On a side note, I did a paper for school a while ago called "1984, now" in which I detailed what life would be like under 1984(ish) circumstances. It's actually fairly close to this.

To go along with the hardware enforcement, what if we don't pay for Palladium? What if it's just one of those critical updates that get shot out to us? They don't need to make money SELLING Palladium. They KNOW they'll make money after it's in place. A piece here and piece there... most users wouldn't have a clue. Who knows if we don't already have half of it in our XP boxes right now? Not to start a panic or anything but it is an underhanded and dirty sort of things to do. Isn't that what we've been saying the M$ is capable of all these years?

Straight from M$: Palladium NGSBC News

Specifications for the "Fritz chip": (pdf) Download

"I've resolved that Win2000 is the last OS I'll be using from Micro$oft." Thats how i feel too, the only decent OS they've made its why it isnt supported anymore I recon , if everyone stuck with 2kpro noone would need to upgrade, just the odd patch down the line.

I don't think this is such a bad thing, hopefully it'll push everyone over the edge to rid there hard drives or microsoft crap. Manufacturers are goin to refuse this crap, who is goin to build these motherboards and other MS specific hardware ?

Linux(and others) from what I can tell from afar are getting more user friendly and GUI orientated by the day, soon it'll be far superior to MS and just as widespread.

let them palladium about all they like.

quote:

---

Manufacturers are goin to refuse this crap, who is goin to build these motherboards and other MS specific hardware ?

---

The question is, who is not going to?
Here´s a short excerpt from the TCPA members List at http://www.againsttcpa.com/tcpa-members.html
(TCPA is the old name for Palladium, BTW)

quote:

---

3Com Corp.
Acer, Inc.
Adobe Systems, Inc
Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. aka AMD
ALi Corporation
American Megatrends Inc.
Compaq Computer Corporation *
Computer Associates International, Inc.
Dell Computer Corporation
Fujitsu Limited
Fujitsu-Siemens-Computers
Gateway, Inc.
Hewlett-Packard Company *
Hitachi, Ltd. PC Div.
Infineon Technologies Corporation
Infineon Technologies Asia Pacific Pte Ltd
Intel Corporation
International Business Machines Corporation aka IBM
Iomega Corporation
Micron Electronics, Inc
Microsoft Corporation *
Motorola
National Semiconductor
NEC Corporation
Network Associates, Inc.
Novell, Inc.
nVidia
Philips Semiconductors
Phoenix Technologies, Ltd.
Raytheon Company
RSA Security, Inc.
SAGEM MORPHO, Inc.
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO. LTD
Siemens AG
Sony Electronics, Inc.
Toshiba Corporation
VIA Technologies, Inc.

---

Scared?

[This message has been edited by MW (edited 07-25-2003).]

Holy fuck.

What about foreign markets?

Oh wait, I just remembered. To those of you who don't know, Palladium is only 3/4th's the story. The new OS that Palladium is run under doesn't use the FAT32 or NTFS file structure. Microsoft decided that they'd better switch your file structure into something resembling a mySQL database, so that anything pre-Longhorn (the OS) won't run! YAY!

Me, I just downloaded a distribution of Linux, and am going about the fairly daunting task of installing and getting to learn Linux. Be prepared, as the Boy Scouts would say.

(QUESTION: Are their any good Windows emulators for Linux, because I'd like to be able to still use Painter and various freeware that I am currently using?)

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 07-25-2003).]

Try Lindows.

I thought that Lindows was just a Windows-ey looking Linux? Anyways, I'll look it up. Thanks.

Yeah, heard about that too. The new file system is going to be called WinFS for "Future Storage" or some bs like that.

Goddamn... even VIA's on that list now?

Chances are though, that some overseas manufacturers will resist and make some anti-Palladium mobos and anti-Palladium chips and the such...
I'd but them, at least

Actaully, MS sued Lindows for infringing it's copyrights and claiming there'd be market confusion with two OS's named so similarly... wtf?

Lindows OS. Windows XP.


Damn, I'm confused already...




[This message has been edited by ozphactor (edited 07-25-2003).]

Windows 1984.com

You know what this looks like to me? The end of the information age. I mean, think about it, in the 80's and 90's, there was a gigantic increase in computing technology and power, along with vast improvments in software. With all of this being monitored, is there any room for innovation. Look at the above link, the music industry is trying to stop Sony from releasing a 100 hour CD, because they fear the it will cause pirates to "pirate more." If computer usage drops, then the vendors will stop making parts, and researching etcetera.

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 07-25-2003).]

sheesh, i may have to save money to buy an SGI

Photoshop on Linux
Wine- "Wine is an Open Source implementation of the Windows API on top of X and Unix."

[This message has been edited by Petskull (edited 07-26-2003).]

I just installed a test version of Red Hat, Debian and Slackware on 5 gig partitions to see which one I like best. Welp...

I just built an abacus from a bag of M&M's and some chopsticks and some chewing gum. Still working on the operating system. Welp!

M&M's suck, Full of security holes and buggy. If I were you I would "Switch" to Skittles, they are far superior much more user friendly and secure. I have used my Skittle abacus has over a year with out a major crash. Let's see M&M's do that. Skittles are worth the extra cost.

J. Stuart J.

This looks like a wonderful way for M$ haters to spread a lot of shit, see, it's already doing wonders here.

Half of what was said in that article would be illegal in my country, and lets not forget that the *nix community dominates the web server market, you really think their going to waste millions on supporting fritz so that MS OS's can network with them?... Hah, not a chance in hell. If MS can't dominate the server market they can't enforce this kind of thing, at least, not to the extent *implied* in that article, which isn't worth the paper I printed it on IMHO.

If you ask me this sounds like some slashdot geek who hasn't been getting enough sun dribbled his delirious thoughts onto his semen stained keyboard in a hope to justify his existance.

Some of it may be true, if it is, I'll vote with my feet when the times comes -- but it's things like this that started witch hunts many years ago.

I remember when windows ME first came out, some so called *nix geek tried to convince me that Windows ME would automatically corrupt any installation of a Non MS web browser. I also know lots of *nix geeks who were convinced that IE4 had *hidden* routines in it that tried to stop you from downloading NN4. -- I've heard a lot more crap like this before too, just goes to show how bloody stupid people can be regardless of the OS they use.

You wanna know what scares me, still, is the anti-piracy measures and the new SQL based architecture. The anti piracy measures will prevent the sharing of (even legal) mp3's and video files, as well as prevent ripping. The inclusion of this "auto delete" software might make it so that your own recorded mp3's could accidently get deleted, and legally shared mp3's could get deleted. Also, with access to your Word documents (etcetera) you won't be able to keep anything a secret. Bascially, your computer will be able to be remote controlled from (somewhere) and controlled, scanned and edited without your knowledge and against your will. Since you aren't able to pirate programs, this is going to make a lot of people mad. Think about it, most everybody that works with PS now got their first version pirated, and they learned on a pirated version, same goes for MSDN etcetera.

With their new SQL architecture, it will be impossible to use old freeware programs. The reason that this won't work is that everybody develops and knows how to develop for NTFS and FAT32 architectures. Think about your old games. How will those work. Computers will be starting anew. I heard that Vivendi (Blizzard) and Valve aren't going to program anything for the new file system.

(Dracusis, a lot of what their doing is illegal in the US also, but since their teamed up with the goverment in this, and not many people know about it, it isn't getting the attention that it would need in order to be destroyed.)

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 07-27-2003).]

Obtain information.
Investigate that information.
Confirm.
Get any operating system other than Microsoft.

My husband has had Linux on his machine for a long while now, being an "old Linuxian". He has a small partition with Windows 98 on it just so we can play games together sometimes. After reading this he will immediately remove this partition from his hard drive.
I will switch to and start learning Linux as well (*sigh*) as soon as possible.

I REFUSE to let any company take over my privacy, with the sweet promise it is for my best!

~~Kasta sten i glashus? Jag?~~

^^^ What the? Why remove windows 98? Christ all mighty, is it mob mentality week or somehting....

CFB, The govnernment isn't who you'd need to keep quite about this, it's the press M$ would have to worry abuout, and no gonvernment or monoplistic company can keep them quite if they think a story will sell.

As for M$ making any radical changes what will hamper the efforts of freeware/open source development. Well, look at the shit fight that happened over M$ removing the Java Virtual Machine from XP. If history is anyting to go by and if you were to believe everyting that's being said about M$'s new OS, then one would be inclined to think that MS is run by 3 year olds.

A company doesn't get the kind of market share MS has by being stupid. Sure, a lot of their marketing stratiges have been somewhat underhanded, but I highly doubt their stupid enough to do what everyone thinks they're trying to do.

[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 07-28-2003).]

Ok, so on Freeware. It won't run unless adapted to the new architecture.

And what about webservers? Most are Sun or Linux run Apache webservers which microsoft's new architecture (supposedly) can't communicate with.

Maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion, but this is what I've read.

OK I have started an FAQ on this:

:FAQ: What is Palladium?

and if people are thinking about moving to Linux then we have a good section in the FAQ for this:

:FAQ: Linux

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

So I will just have to have a couple of machines then if this awful situation occurs. One big monster with all my applictions on and NEVER connect it to the net. Also a second barebones system with just an operating system and empty disk space always online and thats all it will do. Then I'll start using 2054 bit encryption on everything. I bought these machines, and paid a lot of money for my stuff, what is mine is mine... and no one is going to alter or take over or tamper with any of it either. That could make me really antagonistic.

Still there's always CB radio and carrier pidgeon..

Microsoft pidgeon...





[This message has been edited by Xpirex (edited 07-28-2003).]

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Love the idea, Xpirex- mind if I borrow it?

Go ahead...

Hello everyone.. Im a newbie here
here is my view..
There is no denying the fact that Microsoft uses all sorts of tactics to lock users into their products.
This is their primary tactic and always will be ( almost all closed source businesses do this )
Knowing about this its only logical that palladium will be designed with this tactic in mind.
You also have to know that MS is famous for shooting themselves in the foot (XP product registration).
And you cannot make millions of users swallow this new "inovation" easily. From what I understand about palladium
and DRM software is that it will be an OPTION. You can either turn it on or OFF. Therefore the only use
I see for DRM is for companies that want to keep their workstations data internal.
Linux users .. Linus himself said that he has no problem with DRM software.
So I would expect DRM palladium machines to talk to DRM enabled linux desktops/servers.
This technology is more usefull in server security than for the desktop user although i think MS just to
look like the protector of the music and movie industry will sell it like candy to the normal user.

As for me I have not touched windows in 2 years..
I have been using Linux Mandrake in my desktops (work and home) and Slackware + Red Hat for the servers.
I can use applications like:
Dreamweaver MX
Flash MX
Office XP (although i use Open Office www.openoffice.org all the time)
many more.. thanks to www.codeweavers.com and wine

I play games like:
Neverwinter nights,
Enemy Territory,
UT2003,
Tribes 2,
GTA Vice City,
War Craft 3 FT,
ect.. ect..
thanks to native ports and transgaming WineX (www.transgaming.com)

and im happy to say that i can do everything i could do in windows and more .. except.. uh.. Play Half Life 2 when it comes out.. darn.. hehe
but .. im sure that transgaming will port it very fast..

weeee....

[This message has been edited by megalex (edited 07-28-2003).]

Welcome Megalex and thankyou for that more tempered viewpoint. Aahhh, I breath a little easier after that.

Bloody hell, I opened up a can of worms here didn't I. But I'm a stubborn bugger when I want to be and I've not seen anything to warrant a change of opinion on this issue.

What I'm trying illustrate is that MS isn't out to get you. Underhanded and egotistical yes, but if they screw you, you won't give them money for their product and if you don't give them money then they screw themselves. They know what sells and they know what doesn't. They also know that they have a bad rep and that people are watching them and they know if they don't give people what they want, it won't sell.

The thing I don't understand is, everyone seems to be acting as if this has already happened. People are switching to *nix desktops and the product hasn't even been released yet? Does that not seem absurd to anyone else?

If all of this is true then mark my words, I'll be voting with my feet.

On the other hand, if MS's new OS doesn't infringe on my privacy rights but does hinder the efforts of pirated software, pirated music and information theft through increased security then I'm all for it. But no one here seems willing to see that as a possible outcome. Everyone seems to be assuming MS is out to screw the public whilst ignoring any possible benefits. If that's the way you want to see it then fine, be that way, but I thought people here were a little more open minded. I guess I underestimated the power of MS bashing.

On the issue of piracy, yes my first copy of Photoshop was a pirated version and yes I still have illegal copies of some software on my PC, but only because it's too easy for me to do so. I should probably feel guilty because of this but I don't, and that's the biggest problem with piracy, people don't see is as a serious crime. Now, if I could never have installed PS then I'd turn to free open source solutions and I'd probably never have purchase Photoshop if that had happened. You don't have to be a genius to know that a large chunk of the people using pirated software eventually go out and pay for it. You also don't need to be a genius to know that eliminating piracy will see a large chunk of people turning to free and open source solutions and sticking with them.

So, what will Adobe and Macromedia do to deal with that sudden loss of income from the elimination of piracy. Sure they may gain some income by forcing some people to pay who otherwise wouldn't have, but they know a certain % of piracy turns into profits for them in the long run. The solution is easy and companies like Alias wavefront and discreet have already answered that by creating free versions of their products for people who simply wish to learn the software.

This will also feed back to the open source community, more people will use free software and more free software will be developed. As for the MS file system not being compatible with existing apps... I find this hard to swallow that there won't be some kind of emulation to help the transition, but even if there isn't theres no difference between this and the move from Mac OS 9 to OS X. People praised OS X for making such a bold move but now MS tries something to benefit the speed of their OS and everyone starts crying foul? -- again, I think the train of thought that automatically makes people see the bad before the good is a product of the anti MS stigma that's been around for ages.

The music side of things is the same. Almost everyone I know who owns a computer has pirated music. This doesn't make it OK to have it though, it's still a crime but without serious measures in place to prevent it no one will ever see it as a real crime. Eliminating music piracy will also have increased benefits for the music community at large as no-name armature artists will have a greater opportunity to distribute their music. People will be more willing to explore armature artists music if commercially produced records aren't at arms reach.

But maybe It'd be more productive for me to convince people to switch to an OS that needs to emulate the OS I just switched form in order to do everything I could have done if I didn't bloody well switch in the first place!

Yeah, that sounds like a top notch idea to me. Where do I sign up for some of that insightful logic?

Ultimately, until this OS is released I'll abstain from making any decisions as to which OS I'll use in the future.

[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 07-29-2003).]

Speeding is bad. Speeding kills people. But that's my choice, sometimes not a very wise choice, but still my choice. If they make a law that american cars max out at 25mph, then I'll buy a car from another country.

Dracusis - I don't wholly disagree with you, but there a couple key points that *need* addressing -


1)

quote:

---

Half of what was said in that article would be illegal in my country

---

Yes. But does illegal mean they don't do it? I mean....christ, a large part of what this is about is stoppin gthe user from doing illegal things (which means that users are doing things despite them being illegal). PS's speeding analogy is a very good one. I speed. Just about everyone I know speeds. I see cops and politicians speeding all the time. They're the people who create and enforce the speed limit laws...and yet they break them.

Assuming that because something is illegal, it won't be done, is very dangerous.

2)

quote:

---

but if they screw you, you won't give them money for their product and if you don't give them money then they screw themselves. They know what sells and they know what doesn't. They also know that they have a bad rep and that people are watching them and they know if they don't give people what they want, it won't sell.

---

Except one big problem - most people don't know. Most people don't even realize that MS has a "bad rep" because to the average joe, they simply don't! To geeks like us, they do.

And if the manufactures sell crap, and there are no real, well know, viable alternatives, then the people *will* give them the money for crap, and thank them for it, and write letters about how good the crap is.

3) More general - perhaps there is over reaction. But I would rather see over reaction to this level of dangerous activity then no reaction at all. The posibility for governmental abuse of technology is astounding and terrifying. "Law" means little. We are already seeing our civil liberties eroded away under the pretense of "security", and what's more worrying, we are seeing people accept it as a good thing.

The first stages of totalitarianism are almost always embraced by the people, and are often scoffed at as "insignificant" by others. There is never an overt strike against the people by the govnerment. The people build big brother up...

Ok, I see your point.

I've even use that speeding analogy to try and rationalize smoking before, I believe I once said "you speed but you know it's bad for you, smoking is kinda the same with the added badness of withdrawals".

But about people not knowing that MS has a bad rep... I'm not too sure. Maybe the people I know (which I wouldn't consider geeks) are aware of the stuff MS has done in the past. But maybe the people I associate with that I consider to be the "average user" are a lot more savvy than most. If that's true then well *shakes head* ... I once read a rather arrogant magazine article that suggested we need to start soliciting licences to people before we let them use a computer, I'm second guessing my opinions on that right about now.

As for the whole "because it's illegal doesn't mean it won't happen" train of thought. I'd still like to think that to a certain degree the law would still apply, especialy to someone as big as MS. But maybe I'm wrong there too.

In any event, you've given me something to think about.

But I'm still not switching OS's, at least, not now. Like I said -- I'll vote with my feet if the time comes. But untill there's proof of what MS are planning on doing is anyone really going to listen to the whining of a few geeks?...

I've sent an email to a local tech magazing I subscribe to asking them if they could do some research on the situation and write something about it. I figure that's about all I can really do that'll have any real impact bar not buying the product if it is going to do what people say it will.

My main reason for concern here was that people seemed to be reading that article and switching OS's right now as if it was gospal.

How about we don't panic. Instead let's buy Lindows (etc.) and start supporting an alternative to MS. MS has us over a barrel. The question is, will they rape us or just invade our space a little? We need to have an OS that we control.



How ya like me now?

I'm a bit scared by all this to be sure. I like Xpirex's idea and that would seem to be the way to go if this should all come to pass. And for the author of the original article all I have to say is... fourthly is a word, but seventhly most certainly is not.

. . : slicePuzzle

Bigamus!!! where you been? I actually missed you!



[This message has been edited by Xpirex (edited 08-01-2003).]

Mucho mucho busy my friend. I'm hoping things will be settling back down to some normalcy very soon

. . : slicePuzzle

I will probably be using macs when this day comes to pass...

maybe i should just shoot myself now.

heh.

We don't want to lose you, Izzay! Take it easy

quote:

---

But about people not knowing that MS has a bad rep... I'm not too sure. Maybe the people I know (which I wouldn't consider geeks) are aware of the stuff MS has done in the past.

---

I talked to a few people at the office at my work. The man I am sharing office with is a computer guy, so he's cool. But the lady I am currently working with only knows how to use her computer when it comes to her work related tasks. When I - waving energeticly with my arms to illustrate the Palladium issue - told her about the new "secure" Windows that could become a threat to privacy, she yawned and said she really didn't care. "Windows has always been so stable on my computer" she said. "Bad reputation? I thought they had good reputation!"
When I talked about all bad files that are coming into your computer every day, being saved in registry and as cookies and so on, her reaction was: "Cookies? What is that? I never emptied my Temporary Internet files. Do I have to do that? I simply don't care much about those things." Next day her computer was attacked by a virus.

Another guy at my work had about the same reaction as her. Looking at his watch while I was talking about it, saying he wasn't too interested - like I was trying to sell him Tupperware's latest invention.

Me myself, I know barely nothing about computers but I can manage my own computer rather well. AND I am the one people call for at my work when they have problems with their computer programs (when the computer techs don't have the time to come). People at my work aren't stupid, but most of them aren't computer people - they use their computers at work and know nothing about the inside of the computer. A privacy threat - like Palladium could become - wouldn't be more important to them than doing the laundry. Most people I know use computers VERY MUCH but are not aware of what M$ does or how they have become so big. They are certainly not aware that there are better products for free on the market.

So don't tell me Microsoft doesn't know what they are doing if they would try to "take over the world" - like someone in here put it. They could easily do it, because there are simply too many computer users that wouldn't care less, or wouldn't even notice.

~~Kartis - in Cell 1025~~

[This message has been edited by Kartis Shone (edited 08-05-2003).]

Ok, my take.

1. I'm a Windows user, plain and simple.
Why? I as well as almost everyone I know learned to use a pc with windows, I'm so very used to it, where to find things, change them and so on. Plus there are a wide variety of software available that has interfaces similar enough for me to be able to use them in a reasonably fast time. This since there are defacto standards on how an interface should be built in windows.

2. Do I like Windows?
Yes, and no.
Yes because I'm used to it and the availability of legal and free software.
Yes because it's everywhere and you can always get help when you need it.
No because it's everywhere by design and domination from it's maker leaving no real space for healthy competition that usually brings forth better prices and higher quality.
No because it's so damned easy to break it even if you know what you are doing. No because it is so frekkin vunerable to viruses/script kiddies and so on.
No because it bleeding always breaks down when you need it the most.

Will I stay with windows?
Not sure. I'm thinking more and more of setting up a linux box to learn more about it to get an opinion based on my own experiences. I'm also thinking of getting a Mac laptop for much the same reasons (plus I need a laptop and a reference Mac-machine for my work).
For now Windows will stay on my box, that desicion is mainly based on the choice of applications that I use and need. And no, right now I'm not interested in learning a new OS plus an emulator to use clones or ported versions of things I already have.

What about M$ future plans?
I've read quite a bit on palladium (a swedish magazine did a good walkthrough of the proposed architecture a while back) and as I see it the article posted in this thread is a worst case scenario.
That doesn't mean that it won't happen though.
However, regardless of our personal views/opinions of M$, they are NOT stupid... Face it, if they were they wouldn't be where they are today.

Sure they have done and will do several really stupid desicions down the line, mainly because they are so big it is difficult to judge the little peoples reactions. But don't forget, In a company as big as M$, desicions are as much political as business related.

This whole adaption of DRM (which is one big part of the base of Palladium) would never have come up if there wasn't heavy political lobbying done from the whole movie/music business. My take is that M$ does not dare ignore those very powerful forces, thus a political desicion has been made in M$ that in order to continue (and strengthen) it's position and goal to make windows an integral part in every household as a work/entertainment/service platform they have to cater to the entertainment business need for DRM in some form.

Then there is another factor in this equation, Since M$ is almost everywhere today it's very very hard to show increasing profit by adding new users to the customerbase. They know as well as we know that people in general lend their CD's with Win.X to each other as well as burn copies to friends instead of going out to buy a new cd if you need an install on a new machine.

Thus came the product activation in the XP family. Plain and simple.

Now, if they must enforce DRM for political reasons, why not use the same technology to cover software as well? A quite effective and rational solution since they have to use it anyway, right?

Then to the tech parts.
As I understand it Palladium lives in a corner of the system servicing the applications enabled to work with palladium/DRM, if an application is not Palladium/DRM enabled it will not touch Palladium.
Somewhat like this pic:

I'm not saying this is the way it really is, however, in order to stay in business, MS must provide a way for allaowing non-palladium/drm software to run on the computer. If not they will lose out on a lot of the choices that makes Windows a platform that people stays with out of habit.

Do I like it?
No.

Do I understand why they are doing it?
I think so.

Do I agree?
As a person, no
In a business sense, well, partly yes.

Do I believe it can/will be misused?
Is the Pope head of the Catholic church...
Hell yes, it will be misused, if not by MS it will be by other companies products and hackers. No doubt.

Now will I change OS?
Perhaps, time will tell.
/Dan



{cell 260}
-{ a vibration is a movement that doesn't know which way to go }-

[This message has been edited by DmS (edited 08-05-2003).]

quote:

---

From what I understand about palladium and DRM software is that it will be an OPTION. You can either turn it on or OFF.

---

So by the way microsoft works...On and Off mean respectivley that you can see it work and that you can't see it work

This is the scary stuff that the most diabolical alien/government control conspiracies are made of .

With power like this MS would be godlike and you know what tht means in any PC environment.
Forget that absolute power corrupts absolutely what about the first ammendment the freedom of speech and expression???
We have to crush their ego dreams fast and now thru enlightenment and the option of an alternative OS that can run on the existing PC platform we could call it peoples OS. I hear that OS X is porting to PC That would certainly do ok ( I ´ll have six copies please!!!
Another really frightening thing is that the not so computer literate are the bulk of the cattle that are about to be rounded up by palladium and hideously branded with the MS logo. with Bill gates laughing his way to the bank
what am I saying the bank will be going to him for money if this goes thru

STOP THEM NOW !!!!



Razer Force