Topic awaiting preservation: Has anyone ever heard of "Wicca"? (Page 1 of 2)

Hey, I was wondering if any of you have ever heard or studied about Wicca?
I am currently studing in this field of religion and just wanted to know some of your thoughts! And for those of you who have no clue what I am talking about, just let me know and I will be sure to tell you about it if you would like to know.

BiGCaC

yeah tell me, I am pretty much clueless what you are talking about

I sort of know a bit about it. It's related to Witchcraft somehow and has to do with the nature spirits, spells and what-not. More info on this would be nice. And by the way, can men be Wiccan's?


.quotes.

Wicca is a neopagan, earth-centered religion .. Wicca is a religion based on the moon and the sun .. when they raise and set .. not to mention the beginning and end of civil twilight .. ever Monday the faeries play .. and play they do .. even more so if it's a full moon

there is a 1734 Tradition .. it's practically the witch 'laws' .. it's the teachings, writings, and inspiration of Robert Cochrane.

Do not what you desire -
do what is necessary.
Take all you are given -
give all of yourself.
"What I have - - - I hold!"
When all else is lost, and not until then,
prepare to die with dignity.

yes GN .. men can be Wiccan


.::. cEll .::. 513

[This message has been edited by RammStein (edited 05-09-2003).]

DEFINITIONS OF WICCAN TERM

Airts or Arts - The art of causing change through systematic use of the will and other natural forces. Some common goals in magic are healing, guidance, protection, and insight.
Cuveen or Coven - group of Wiccans with common religious goals and purposes, which meets regularly for the purpose of holding Esbats, Sabots, teaching, or for any other activity having a direct connection with Wicca.
Coven Council - a council selected by the High Priest and/or High Priestess of a Coven. It is convened due to a complaint made by them or a member of the Coven against them or a member of the Coven.
Cowan - A person that is not a Wiccan.
Esbat - Meetings held once or twice each Lunar month. Most Covens hold Esbat at the Full Moon (or the three days proceeding). Many hold Esbat at the New Moon or the Dark of the Moon (or the three days preceding or following).
Sabbat - Meetings held at the eight major seasonal holidays: the Equinoxes and the Solstice called the Quarter Days, and at the time of each season called Cross-Quarter Days; the Cross-Quarter Days fall at or about February 2, May 1, August 2, and October 31. There is also the festival known as
Twelfth Night - which occurs twelve (12) days after the Winter Solstice (Yule).
Tradition - A group of Covens having a common lineage and/or common form of practice.
Wicca, Witchcraft or The Craft - A religion including diverse Traditions related to many European and Mediterranean cultural sources. This religion worships feminine and masculine deities, and pays homage to The Mighty Dead. This corporation specifically excludes the Native American Religions, Native American Shaman and Native African religions from the definition of these words.
Wiccan - A person that has been properly Dedicated, Initiated or Ordained into the Religion of Wicca by a member of the Clergy who has the authority to perform that Dedication, Initiation or Ordination.
Witch - A person who worships and respects the Goddess(es) and God(s) of Witchcraft.




.::. cEll .::. 513

Yes, I've heard, studied, and AM Wiccan. What do you want to know? Personally I find the religious aspect of Wicca to be as fraught with dogma as most any other religion. Not to mention the attraction of "fluff" as I call them, people who have been drawn to the 'occultness' of it all. The magic inherent in the belief.

Yes, men can be Wiccan/witches. Don't ever call someone a warlock however. Warlock means othbreaker and is considered an insult of the highest degree.

My views differ from most Wiccans because, like I've stated here about most religions, I believe in the theology of the faith, not necessarily the religion. Most Wiccans believe you can be a witch without being Wiccan but have to be a witch in order to be Wiccan, that the rituals are vital to your Wiccan worship. Well I've been through the Rede and it doesn't seem to mention anything about a requirement to cast spells or to worship in any particular way. It requires a belief in magic (please don't ever, EVER say magick, I just find that irritating) but not necessarily the practice. The Rede is where 'Do as you will, 'an it harm none' comes from. Your basic golden rule modification (or precursor), as it were.

Lets see here...

The Witches' Voice Is an excellent site that has a great deal of information. It isn't a fanatics site nor is it some Fluffhead trying to make a name for themselves. Fritz and Wren are very level headed people and do their best to provide a good site and help Wiccans/Pagans network together. BTW Fritz has some great music out there. Buy a disk if you think you'll enjoy it.

SpiritWolf's Page I was looking for my Ex's "About Wicca" page that we had worked on together but apparently it has been taken down. This site has some of that information in an adapted/interpreted form. *WARNING* There is sound on this page... It's an irritating looping midi track and you can't shut it off. The page has good info though, so kill the speakers and read along.

Feel free to ask me questions... I'll be happy to answer them as best I can. Just know that I speak for myself only and no Wiccan speaks for all Wiccans.

GrythusDraconis
"I'm sick of hearing that beauty is only skin-deep. That's deep enough. Who wants an adorable pancreas?" - Unknown

{EDIT}Stupid finger's{/EDIT}

[This message has been edited by GrythusDraconis (edited 05-09-2003).]

magick

{edit - runs into a side room as GD runs by screaming with webshaman's tomahawk...}

[This message has been edited by Gilbert Nolander (edited 05-09-2003).]

WHAT??!!??

GD stole my tomahawk? This is war!!!!

ok I heard enaugh....umm no thanks I dont wanna join it

Starts scratching

I told him that irritated me. OW! Where the hell did this come from? It does do the job though. Ahhhhh... Yeah... That's the spot....

Did you want this back, WS?



GrythusDraconis
"I'm sick of hearing that beauty is only skin-deep. That's deep enough. Who wants an adorable pancreas?" - Unknown

So, GD, I had no idea you were a warlock that is totally into magick

Seriously, I have a few questions. I understand that the idea of witches in the Middle Ages was fraught with Xian superstition and fears and was basically pushed onto some of the existing pagan beliefs. But how does your being Wiccan relate to anything that could be considered religion?

Do you have any beliefs that involve gods, nature gods, etc.?

If not, then what do you get out of Wicca?

Is it more a philosophy of life like Buddhism?

Are there rules that you must follow to be a Wiccan?

Is there an afterlife?

Is there good and evil? Who determines how they are defined?

I have more but those are the first that come to my mind.

. . : slicePuzzle

I studied Wicca for a while... even got through my first degree initiation, but somehow, it lacked something for me. Not quite sure what it is. Though I immensely enjoyed celebrating Sabbats. Nothing like running around and dancing on Halloween night with a bunch of other "normal" adults dressed in black robes drinking hard warm cider... Quite liberating, actually.

I always understood that adding the final "k" onto the word magic was only meant to distinguish between stage, or illusionist magic, and what occult groups refer to as "real" magic. It's a Crowley thing, I guess...



Bodhi - Cell 617

The idea of dancing around a fire on Halloween in black robes seems so odd to me. Can you please explain why that is done? I am very curious as to the significance of that. GD, do you participate in those kinds of rituals too?

edit

[This message has been edited by InSiDeR (edited 05-12-2003).]

Ooooo questions OK:

As the original beliefs of the Druids were effectively lost by the persecution of them first by the Romans and then by the Christians what is the basis of the Wiccan religion (I was of the understanding that it didn't effectively date back more than 150-200 years)?

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

GD

Also. Does your asylum name have anything to do with WICCA?
If so, what does it mean?

Ach... I'm not ignoring you Bug's... I'm just at work. I'll get at it tonight and have something, probably lengthy, for you later on.

Basic rundown on your quick questions though:

Do you have any beliefs that involve gods, nature gods, etc.?

Yes. Wiccan believe in a God and Goddess, but not as actual entities themselves. They are the male and female portions of nature and we humanize those natural things we can't understand. They don't have names but those we give, nor do they have faces but those we give them. Hence all gods are the same gods even if there is only one actual deity instead of many. For instance my representation of my Goddess is a Luminescent Dragon that I call the Celestial Dragon. Just my image for something beyond my understanding and hardly one that expect other people would say they visualized.

If not, then what do you get out of Wicca?

See above. Wicca is pretty much the same thing that most religions are. Basic structures to help guide people towards harmony with each other and some explaination of things that are beyond our reach. That's basically all religion is.

Is it more a philosophy of life like Buddhism?

Well, Hmmm... I'm not particularily versed in Buddhism but I know that Wiccan's believe all life is connected by the energies of creation (which I suppose is the 'real' deity of Wicca). All life and structure belongs to this pool of energy that I, obscurely, call the 'All' or the 'Essence of Creation'. Everything comes from the 'Essence' and returns to the 'Essence'

Are there rules that you must follow to be a Wiccan?

Only one rule. Do as you will as it harms none. This rule covers everything. There is the Threefold Law which is really more of a belief then a Rule that basically states that any wrong you visit on another will be returned to you three times.

Is there an afterlife?

There is but I always have a hard time defining it. It is somewhat collectively called the 'SummerLands' (or at least I call it that). Once you've learned how to control yourself and your mind you can control your afterlife. It is somewhat limited to the knowledge of life that you have however. If you are a 'bad' person I imagine your Summerland isn't going to be a very pleasant place... even for you. Spirits in their summerlands are in a place of reflection and comfort. Wiccan's don't call on spirits for this reason. It's tantamount to ripping someone from their dreams. The afterlife is not an ending point. It is a resting place. When we choose (if we've learned that much control) we can return to another physical form. In the SummerLands time does not pass and things are limited to our knoweledge of life. In order to learn, we MUST become corporeal again. It is the only way to expand our experiences.

Is there good and evil? Who determines how they are defined?

There is no good and evil. There is only creation. The raw powers of creation have made some pretty nasty things but is it at fault? I don't see creation as having a particular purpose or will. It just is. Without purpose there is no malice to define evil. Without purpose there is no benevolence to define good.

Like I said that's the quick and dirty and purely based on MY particular beliefs and interpretations. Please ask me questions. It's been a long time since I talked to someone about this. I had forgotten how much I like to discuss it.

quote:

---

The idea of dancing around a fire on Halloween in black robes seems so odd to me. Can you please explain why that is done? I am very curious as to the significance of that. GD, do you participate in those kinds of rituals too?

---

I have been to some rituals but they were very open and toned down forms of such things. It seemed rather hollow to me like going to church felt like when I still went. I haven't been to a... hmmm... somber(?) ritual before. I'm not part of a coven and I actually don't want to be. I have, and do perform spells but they are specific only to myself and nothing so stupid as lighting a 'money' candle or something. I don't have a book of shadows nor do I intend to have one. As a matter of fact most 'spells' have effects that are recognized by modern science and other paranormal abilities.

Well... I'm getting to the rant part of my feelings on this so I think I'll take a break. As I mentioned before. Feel free to ask me questions either here or in mail (my E-mail link actually *works*). I am GrythusDraconis(grythyn@hotmail.com) on MSN and my Q# is 36989887. I truly enjoy talking about this as I'm sort of closeted about it most of the time. Ask Away!

GrythusDraconis
"I'm sick of hearing that beauty is only skin-deep. That's deep enough. Who wants an adorable pancreas?" - Unknown

[This message has been edited by GrythusDraconis (edited 05-09-2003).]

edit

[This message has been edited by InSiDeR (edited 05-12-2003).]

Ok Wow I was surpirsed that so many of you replied and knew so much about Wicca. My name really has nothing to do with my religion, see I am not suppose to expose it to "the muddan" world. Muddan world is just people who are not witches. A guy is called a witch, because if you are a warlock or wizzard your consider evil, and your coven or the god and goddess abandoned you for wrong doing. And we don't all dress in black or dance around a fire! That is just movie stuff. We do dance sometimes it all depends on the ritual or spell. You don't really believe in Satan. The point of the rituals vary from spell to spell. See the reason why we worship the sabbats is because of the earths changing and each change has a different relationship to the god and goddess. Example is in the winter time the god has died and the goddess is going threw her birth process of giving birth to the god all over again. And when the spring returns it is to show that the god is born healthy and everything is alive and well.
Some of you may think this is similar to Christian beliefs. But Wicca goes back much further then Christians. We also believe in Demons. They are the trapped evil souls that just want to basically turn everything into hell. We also believe in Three Folds. Three Folds is what you do to others comes back to you times three. I am in a coven and we meet all the time, it is hard to be a witch because you have all these people who think wicca and witchcraft is evil and you worship the devil. But really that is not what it is about, and we are constantly critized for our beliefs. If any of you would like to know more about what my coven and I do, or just wicca and witchcraft ingeneral let me know!
Thanks for all the replies!

Also what GrythusDraconis is talking about beinging "intune" with life and nature and everything is all connected is called "The ALL". Which means everything is created equally and is all combined with a force.

BiGCaC

[This message has been edited by BiGCaC (edited 05-09-2003).]

Um, InSiDeR... I could be mistaken, but I think Jade was referring just to GD, not to everyone. Obviously not everyone's name will be a Wiccan reference, but perhaps GD's is. I think that's what she asked.

My name is derived in part from my Wiccan name. Not exactly to be sure but similar.

Sorry Emp's you slipped in there while I was posting. There is some conflict as to where the origins of Wicca have actually come from. There is some definite Druidic influences in pagan beliefs and certain parts of pagan structure can be seen in todays religions. Wicca, in and of itself isn't all that old. About... hmm... 65 years now? Gerald Gardner I think it was that came up with the idea in the 40's. There is much debate about whether this is true or not. No one can pin-point or find the impetus that caused him to begin this movement of paganism. Needless to say it has continued to grow and prosper. I've heard some tales that Gardner found some island somewhere in the mediteranean sea that had the remnants of the atlanteans that still followed this belief or something. Obviously I'm not putting much credence in this story.

I guess that makes it more of a philosophy than a religion I suppose. By definition doesn't that make most religions philosophy?

GrythusDraconis
"I'm sick of hearing that beauty is only skin-deep. That's deep enough. Who wants an adorable pancreas?" - Unknown

I tend to consider religion and philosophy to be similar but I would say religion leans more towards involved dieties whereas philosophy doesn't. I don't know how that compares to strict definitions.

quote:

---

My name is derived in part from my Wiccan name. Not exactly to be sure but similar.

---

Oh, I stand corrected .

See, when I first read that I didn't see "name."

Philosophy is more about the nature of humans (Mankind), and religion is more about the nature of everything...and Mankinds place in it...IMHO.

Wicca seems to have a lot of elements of my peoples beliefs...especially that we are interconnected with everything on a spiritual level (equal). No real 'gods' though...just spirit 'entities'.

Philosophy vs. Religion:

Philosophy we take credit for understanding or attempting to understand something.

Religion we attribute credit for something (or everything) to something else (god, nature, twinkies, whatever.)

Most of my experience with "wiccans" has been pretty poor. I know this isn't representitive of the majority, but just as with most other religions, factions, or cults, the worst of the group is usually the loudest. So I've mostly dealt with the "we're cool because we're witches ... wooo..." glamgoth wannabes.

That's probably a lot of the reason I've never been able to align myself to any religion. While I would consider myself agnostic, I'm basically a pragmatic atheist as far as the day to day basis goes. I envy those of you that can actually truely believe in religion (whichever one). I don't believe you can choose what you believe. If you have to choose it, then you don't really believe in it do you.

That all said, I've always lived my life according to a lot of the things that many of the older religions were based off of. "Do only that which is good" pretty much sums it up. I don't pretend to know what will happen in life or death. All we have is now and we should all make now as good as we can. If there is a later, good. If not, make what you can of now.

</babble>

<edit>mE iz kant tipe 2 gud</edit>

[This message has been edited by MindBender (edited 05-10-2003).]

For awhile I considered myself Wiccan, until I discovered the actual "religion". I thought it was interesting that there was a religion out there that contained a great many of my beliefs. But as the rituals started getting pushed down my throat, I became a little disillusioned with the whole thing. I've been very content to tell people that I can't tell them my religion, because it doesn't have a name. If pushed I'll hesitantly say pagan, because of the many connotations that word carries. But mostly I believe in the interconnectedness of spirit, that spirit is within everything, and through that interconnection there is a culmination of spirit... a higher entity beyond understanding. Oh... and uh... reincarnation too. : )

just a nitpick here:
philosophy of life - with or without rituals is religion imo.
wicca, xianity, buddhism, bahai, hinduism, zoroastrianism, islam - all have philosophies of life and rituals.. even cults qualify as they are subsets of a religion with philosophies of life and rituals...

ok, back to your arguments...

True, good point. I also studied Buddisim for all while, but I never really liked it. Though Wicca and Buddisim have similar things to them, they are still very different.

BiGCaC

I too am currently studying in the ways of wiccan and pagan, but my main interest is in native shamanism. Just thought I would let you guys know. I think at times that paganism kind of ties shamanism and wicca in some points, but then again that is my observation. Wolf, raven and panther are the totems that have chosen me.

[This message has been edited by Wolfen (edited 05-11-2003).]

Just to butt in for a moment...

I always find it funny when the term 'pagan' is used as if it were a religion, when all the word means is that the person in question is not a chirstian (or a jew, or muslim).

Here is the definition of pagan from Mirriam-Webster Dictionary...
1 : HEATHEN 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person

In my earlier post, this is what I was referring to with regards to all the connotations associated with the word pagan. It has come to mean many things in colloquial language; follower of a non-judeo-christian religion being one of them. (and all of the negatives that are associated with it- heathen and devil-worshippers often being used synonomously) In many references, and especially when referred to in a religious sense, it means a follower of a nature-based religion. Again, this is based on colloquial connotation, but then-that is how language grows.

Sorry for the off-topic-butting-in reply, but i was wondering if anyone could forward me some websites regarding neo-Druidic writings or information. Something credible if you would, please.
{edit}stupid diction{/edit}



[This message has been edited by Sanzen (edited 05-12-2003).]

Sanzen: check here: http://www.wicca.ws/modules.php?op=modload&name=Web_Links&file=index&req=viewlink&cid=6



The programmer's national anthem is 'AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH''

Wolfen's Sig Site

There are quite a large number of "traditions" of Wicca that are followed, in the US, and in Europe. The largest "tradition" of European Wicca is the Gardenerian Tradition, started by Gerald Gardener in the last century. It is a formalized tradition drawing from Celtic Druidism, and some other occult traditions, primarily those of the Golden Dawn and the Ordo Templi Orientis (that would be Alistair Crowley's group) as well as Egyptian religion and shamanism in some cases. There are many others, most draw heavily from Celtic traditions, some claim to be family traditions passed down for hundreds of years... in a lot of cases, most any practice that can be linked to Celtic spirituality is often considered "Wiccan", though I expect that's more due to people not knowing exactly what's what in the occult traditions.
"Modern" Wicca is truly only a few decades old, though the roots it is drawn from are centuries upon centuries old. I believe there are some families that have practiced hereditary witchcraft for generations, but there are fewer of those than you might think.

The "black robes" are only ritual dress - not all covens require black as a color - some actually prefer other colors, so as not to be mistaken for Satanists up to no good. The coven I was practicing with at the time was "herediatary" and very traditional. The dancing is just the types of traditional dancing common at these types of gatherings. Group dances, suitable for a bunch of people just out to have fun... And what Halloween gathering wouldn't be complete without a great big bonfire? No big symbolism there - just a cool thing to have at a party.

There is some ritual that goes on at Sabbats, but for the most part, it's just a big celebration of a holiday - same as Christmas, or New Year's, or Hannukah, or any other religion specific holiday. If you're a member of the coven, you're expected to dress in ritual attire, but if you're not a member of the coven, well, they didn't expect you would have ritual dress necessarily, and so there were people there dressed in plain clothes as well...

The only reason I'm not still a part of any coven is that while I enjoyed the practice of Wicca, I never quite felt that it really satisfied my spirituality. I've studied and practiced many other types of occult spiritual traditions since then, and have recently embarked on a study of shamanism and some eastern mystic traditions. I find that most of them teach the same things fundamentally. It all comes down to specific dogma.

Bodhi - Cell 617

I'm sorry that I missed this thread until now.

I am wiccan but I can't add to much more than what has been stated already. Basically, wicca is a brand of witchcraft. It is relatively new as it didn't exist at the time Margot Adler wrote Drawing Down the Moon. It is distinguished from other types of witchcraft in that it more eclectic and less hierarchial in it's power structures than older traditions .

Wiccans rever nature and believe in a god and a goddess. We believe men and women are equal. We believe in magic and are sometimes too concerned with the ethics of using it. Just like in other beliefs, we have our fundamentalists and our kooks. Because the witch has a negative image, the kooks tend to get the news coverage but most wiccans are regular people who just worship different deities from the judeo-christian god.

Bugimus, you'll hear that wearing robes come from a time when witches were persecuted and needed to maintain secrecy. I don't believe such stories. I believe wearing robes helps people let go of their day to day concerns. People don't wear this type of clothing; usually, so wearing it helps you get into the mindset that you are doing something magical. We dance around a bonfire at many of our holidays, not just at Halloween. Halloween is called Samhain and is both the beginning of the year and the time when the spirits of those who passed away visit their families one last time before departing to the Summerland, our version of heaven. Samhain tends to be a mix of solemness and merriment as we remember those friends who have passed away. Much like an irish wake without the drunkeness.

As opposed to Franciscan monks which wear... um. no.. wait, that's robes. Well, Catholic priests wear... no, er... those are robes too. But Bhudists... nope. Robes.

Really, wearing robes as part of religious attire is pretty common. Truth be told, pants are a pretty recent invention.


It's only after we've lost everything...
That we're free to do anything...

Ummm...no. My people have been wearing leather pants for who knows how long...now, Jeans are a relatively recent invention...especially designer jeans

Good point Mindbender. However, my point was that most run of the mill non-religious vocation people, such as me, do not wear robes on a day to day basis. Wearing the robes signals to your mind that you are doing something out of the ordinary.

By the way, I wear jeans.

Well, depending if it is allowed in a coven (given coven rules..) or if you work alone, you could always cast aside the robes and just go 'skyclad' hehehe.

I've never had the nerve to go skyclad. I would also find it distracting as some of my fellow coveners were quite attractive. Add to the mix the fact that I'm married and my Beltanes could have been rather uncomfortable. It's not easy to hide sexual interest when you're naked