Preserved Topic: Whos Who 3

bah ...

I have something else to add.
me: when I ask peopl;e for opinion on something, no matter over the net or directly, I really prefere true more than take beautiful words. I am 17.5, I can round that to 18, I am not going to cry if someone say my art piece sucks when I ask them for opinion, in the other way, I would think about what I can do to improve what I did to make it satisfy to everyone. See, if I ask and you reply with "oh, dont hurt his feeling" and say something nice while the thing is really a trash, no no no. that will only prevent the person from improving.

any one agree with me? If you don't, 1 on 1 me, outside!

I totally agree. I think a person can grow from being shown things. However, there is a way to do that without going... that sucks blah blah yada yada.

Constructive criticism is great but being obnoxious does more harm than good and causes some of the problems that have been happening on the board lately <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif">

~Better to keep your mouth shut and let people wonder if you are stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt~

: noddes his head:

When I post something for critique, you all better kiss my butt and say how phenomenol it is, or I'm gonna go back to my mama and cry, you hear? I don't want none o' these bad words and mean talk aimed at me. I'm fragile.

there there....

Galaxal sed: "I would think about what I can do to improve what I did to make it satisfy to everyone"
I don't think any piece of art could ever please everyone, well maybe some of the old masters. Wow, maybe that there is something to shoot for? Son! I'm having revelations here, can I type fast enough b4 it all goes away?!?!

What does everyone think? Art to please yourself or to appeal to the masses? Is there anyone who has *seen* a painting from one of the universally accepted 'masters' and thought it sucked? I always hated the renaissance stuff til I *saw* it in a museum, then I was completely blown away by the power of the pieces and the time spent and attention to craft...

Personally I like to consider myself one of the "masters" and like to think not only do i ALWAYS please myself but everyone else too. Of course there must be someone out there who doesnt share my or everyone elses views. So if your out there come forward... hello? <cricket> <cricket> Well that settles it, I am the only true perfect artist ...

Well, to be the money-grubbing capitalist here:

I don't have to like it, the client has to like it..

if I'm the client (homepage), then I have to like it..

I know, I know...

tskull@techie.com">
"A kleptomaniac is a person who helps himself because he can't help himself." --Henry Morgan
ICQ: 67751342

ohm, please don't bite at everyletter I typed, alittle bit of comment sense.
I mean to please as much majority of the people. And I also do think that a good piece of art can please everyone who sees it. I want to make that possible, in a few years, when I get more CELLS in my brain.

later

Hah! I've met a whole binch of first year art students who were convinced that all their art should have a message. And not just *any* old message, THIS particular message, allow me explain, "Blah blah blah..." Heh.

<opinion> Good art should provoke some kind of strong emotional response, that's how you know it's good art. The ideal situation would be if half the folks in the room thought it was the most awesome thing they had ever seen, and wanted to talk about it, and the other half thought it was the *worst* thing they had ever seen, and also wanted to talk about it. Picture the scene! </opinion>

<advice> You never want the people who hate your stuff to hate it because the technique sucks! Push their buttons a different way, let them be offended by the (apparent) message, but make 'em admit the technique was brilliant at least! If you simply must put a message in your images, make it subtle, and make sure to have *several* messages, both an obvious one and a hidden one. Don't be offended when folks simply don't *get* the message, or put entirely new ones in their that you hadn't planned on. Shoot for the STRONG EMOTIONAL RESPONSE. Good art provokes strong emotions. </advice>

Hmm, advice = opinion? Probably. That's life. That's art.

Your pal, -doc-

It is interesting to me how the "purpose" of art has changed through the ages. For example,

• To the ancient Greeks art was a way of explaining nature and science,
• To the Renaissance Artist only religious subjects were worthy of their time
• During the 1600, 1700, and 1800's the main purpose of art was to enhance architecture and glorify the rich and powerful.
• In the latter part of the 1800's and early 1900's art became a medium of self-expression.
• Today, it, is almost as if we have lost the reason of art. No one seems to know why we do art.

I wonder if this is just a historical perspective and it becomes easy to see the motivations for doing art once the period is past, but, we can't really define what we do while we're doing it.

.... "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"..

thats my take on art.

hyperbole,

why? Because it's pretty.
Sad but true.

And VP is right, too: Beauty is in the eye of ME, who is doing the beholding...


"A kleptomaniac is a person who helps himself because he can't help himself." --Henry Morgan
ICQ: 67751342

[This message has been edited by Petskull (edited 24-10-2000).]

I say:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

But if they don't like what they are beholding.... Poke 'em in the friggin eye! <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/mad.gif">

you cant say that Krets! I aready did! hehe lol <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif">

ha. hyperbole, i just went over that in history. The 15th century, was when people started painting in perspective. and it just got crazier from there.
so if you do art to please your self and nobody else likes it then is it really pleasing to yourself? ah.... but if just a few people like it then you are happy with it?
hhrrmmm.....

ZAER

Ok, I gotta put my input in here.

I'm a freelancer so I've got a bit of leeway. When I take on a new client, I design for myself, I've been doing this long enough that I now know when I am satisfied my client will also be satisfied. In past I've learned that if I show the client a piece before it's done I'll get oohhhs and aahhhs and be told it's perfect. Taking it to that next step my clients are even more satisfied. Also when designing for others satisfaction, and not your own begins to drag you down. You find yourself lowering your own standards. Of course I do let my clients know that no matter what they say or like about a design, I won't release it until I am satisfied with it. It makes me and my clients happy. If I am unsure of a design I will show it to others and to the client and look for input. If I get they like it and I still don't I will scrap that design and start over, I usually come up with something much better. Other times they will point out to me what is wrong with the design.

It's fun doing what I do, I now demand more power for myself when I work, and I don't take on clients that aren't willing to give me that freedom.

...as wise twItch has said about projects he has reviewed in the past..."it sucks."

Here endeth the third chapter.

..or to quote a swedish artist with a fetish for Mickey Mouse:

"Konst ska vara snyggt!"

roughly translates to "Art should look nice!"

Fuzzy enough for you?
<img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif">



-nimraw
If you can't convince, confuse!

Art should look nice..
but for whom?

tskull@techie.com">
"A kleptomaniac is a person who helps himself because he can't help himself." --Henry Morgan
ICQ: 67751342

exactly my point!

LOL



-nimraw
If you can't convince, confuse!

Whatever way you look at it, Art is self expression, it comes from your soul, it's what you perceive to be beautiful...it's an emotive thing. How your art is viewed by others, is a question of taste by the honest, and unfortunately - in this follow the sheep in front day & age - whether or not it's in fashion, by the shallow.
Designing a web site and the Artistic creation that you put into it opens up a debate. Either you stick to your principles (which don't always pay the bills), and decline the work on account that you wouldn't want to put your name to the end product; Or, you accept that the clients instructions have to be followed to the letter of the law, even if you know the site will look awful when its complete; Or, you work on it as F1_error has done, achieving YOUR Art put across in YOUR way to satisfy the clients needs and convey his/her message....not easy.

...'n that's my 2 cents worth....

Phil, that's a lovely halmark moment..

that's why I prostitute myself for my client but then am very careful about hurling afterwards...

tskull@techie.com">
"A kleptomaniac is a person who helps himself because he can't help himself." --Henry Morgan
ICQ: 67751342

should professional programmers be good on designing too?
see, since a designer might not know all the capabilities of a language because they don't program, how can they devote the full power? And Since programmers know how to apply all power of a language (js, vbs blah..) they should then come up with more cool tricks and eye candies. So, is a designer higher level of a programmer or a programmer higher level then a designer? or they aren't related to compare?(I think they are).
I really like coding more than designing. Not just webpages, but every kind of programs.

btw Im Jestah for those who don't know. We've had similar threads like this before, if you really care who I am do a search for them. Im sure you wont be dissapointed.

Can everyone safelty say then that mastering technique is a common denominator in everyone's opinions on art?

I think it is and that's one of the things that I love the most about this place. Everyone helps everyone else to master techniques.

I know what you're saying there Doc about stirring the emotions but the Mona Lisa is a snoozer; *until* you see it up close and consider the technique...

JK: I agree that you can't do art without mastering technique. But, if all you have mastered is tecnique, you are just a craftsperson, you're not creating art.

[This message has been edited by hyperbole (edited 25-10-2000).]

jestah: bullseye!

Think your point was lost though <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif">

nimraw


I love deadlines! I like the wooshing sound
they make when they fly by...
- Douglas Adams

galaxal, none is better at all, they must be one and the same, or an extremely close-knit team...

At the agency, we're three people (in the web designing division) that are allowed massive creative control, because they've seen that that's how we operate. We are also best friends. But on top of that, we try to 'think through the other person's eyes'. I am just the web developer, I program and I do a little else, but I cannot pretend to do the graphic designer and the web designer's jobs. That's becuase, let's put it this way:

those jobs are for artists, and as an artist, I'm a brilliant programmer. Know what I mean?

I have to know what they can do, and they have to know what I can do, so superflous communication is extremely necessary. We actually want to be asked the stupid questions because we want the same train of thought to be going through everyone's minds, we have to create like if we were one person that can so it all. And if a 'stupid question' yields a "Yeah, I can do that." then everyone benefits, because we don't restrict our minds to the limits that each other can create, we can create spectacular things.

tskull@techie.com">
"A kleptomaniac is a person who helps himself because he can't help himself." --Henry Morgan
ICQ: 67751342

GALAXAL: i recall a great man once saying "specialisation is for insects".
this was said by a guy who's graphic artistry still dumbfounds me, and as for his javascript.... sheesh!
get my point?

um... maybe I'm very dense, bunchapixels, but what DO you mean?

tskull@techie.com">
"A kleptomaniac is a person who helps himself because he can't help himself." --Henry Morgan
ICQ: 67751342

all i was saying is that if one is attracted to all aspects involved in a web presence, one shouldnt limit oneself to one area (eg "i am a graphic artist" or "i am a hardcore programmer").
sucessfully combining aesthetics and functionality is an art in inself.
but why on earth am i saying this in an ozone forum! for crying out loud, half the people here are absolute web gurus.

.... "beauty is still in the eye of the beholder"...... be it programming, graphic, or a combination...

if the beholder(s) dont like... then no pay! LOL... sad but true... <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif">

*soul for sale.. going cheap* <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif"> "you want me to compromise my artistic integrity for how much??????.... errrrrr (mental math) OK <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif">

[This message has been edited by vogonpoet (edited 26-10-2000).]

I think you are talking about reading each other's mind and combine to teamwork.

great

glaxal... that's exactly what I'm talking about... as near to it as we can get...

tskull@techie.com">
"A kleptomaniac is a person who helps himself because he can't help himself." --Henry Morgan
ICQ: 67751342