Preserved Topic: is the fair? (Page 1 of 1)

$375.00 for 5 Page HTML Web Site,Includes Images, Buttons, Animated Graphics, we can also build you custum graphic at no extra charge, Guest Book,Unlimited Hyperlinks
Page Counter,Custom Site Themes,Custom tailored to your business ,One Time Search Engine Registration (up to 3500 Search Engines / Including Major Engines), Site Publishing, We set up Domain Name and Hosting, Real Player Support ,Includes Web Form Creation
Do you think that is a fair price?

I know a few people that would charge (and get) far more than that. I also know some people that would pay roughly twice that just for the search engine submission.

If I was some average Joe, I would pay that.

On the other side of the coin, I can't imagine it taking too long or putting real effort into do such a site. Sounds quick and sleazy at the hands of web-monkey with DW for that price.

I always get a chuckle out of such ads. The play on words is too much in some. But it's a marketing thing and apparently it works.

I agree, btw-this ad is from my small time company LTS

I think the "average" person would definitely pay for that, but is this going to be "quality" work, or possibly "you get what you pay for" kind of work. To me, the ad states the latter. It creates more questions than answers. That is just my humble opinion.

<soapbox>
I have some real personal problems with 'package' deals, they tend to lead to templates and as you all should know by now template based sites are the root of all uncreativity. Why bust your ass doing custom graphics when you can slap it in a template? Image links down the side, images along top, a few pictures, a bunch of links, screen covered in bile...

Try this instead....Hit a few Large Design sites, do you see any package deals? Fixed pricing? How much does wddg.com charge for a bunch of links,a guestbook and a one time search engin registration?

I know you're thinking...well I dont want to be the next razorfish, (who I have way too much of their stock by the way...bastards) you just want local busisness....right?

With package deals I can gaurntee with a 90% certainty that within the first 10 customers you will find yourself totaly phucked by at least one of them. Do those packages include any contingency for re-design, what if they are so fixated on that price you dangled in front of them like a carrot that they cant understand why you cant add/change/flip-upside-down every single picture on their site 10x over? Do yourself a huge, huge, huge favor and let your work be the incentive that brings them to you, let quality speak for itself, quote based on jobs, if you need portfolio stuffer do free work, dont help in the wallmartization of web design.

Spleen vented....
</soapbox>

Bravo! Encore! What he said! I couldn't have said it better! My thoughts exactly!

BeeKay
Murphy's 50 Laws of Combat Operations
11. Try to look unimportant -- the enemy may be low on ammo.
23. When in doubt -- empty your magazine.

that price and *package* scream "poop"

Jason

poop? same to you pal!!

large poop.. grande poop.. poop of epic proportions......... poop so incredibly massive that it could have only have come from one person...

you guessed it

Well, we typically start WAY above that (about 3 times) for less pages. I'd say if you can get that for some work, fine. But you're probably selling yourself short.

"Designer"


Somebody really better hit a dictionary soon. I believe there's a law against rape in most parts of the world.

Words should be no exception.

Let me just reiterate the important part of this: it's not so much the price that matters, but the quality of the work.

that price is fair, sure. But the old expression 'you get what you pay for' certainly seems to apply.

and, for the record, if you ask for people's opinions, be prepared for someone to call it "poop" and be happy that's the strongest word that was used

Fair price, sure. But, you will get screwed.

Think about it. You'd have to have the whole thing completed in about 30 hours to make even 12 dollars an hour. You can easily spend 30 hours just reviewing design concepts with the client and putting together a first draft for them. And the client will continue to tweak for weeks.

Incidentally, I never understood the concept of a #-page Web site. What constitutes a page? Hell, I could have you working on 600 image thumbnails for a single page and burn hours of your time.

good point, enough said

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you wouldnt know a good point if it stuck ya in the eye!

Ah Soc-x he exposed himself to cirticism and got it and accepted it, no need to troll him over.

Dark, I suggest doing a few from scratch, maybe even for free amoung your friends just to build some good stuff to show. No pre-made templates, no cookie-cutter junk, no web-monkey shinanigans. If you build a reputation, you will build demand -- and this will be based on quality.

Then start charging by the hour, which you will eventually be able to adjust up depending on how hard you keep working at it, the reputation you gain, and the quality you put out.

But I could be way off base with this advice because I don't know your skill level, level of committment, or past projects. Or maybe I'm just blowing smoke in general.

judge and jury are you moaiz? laing down the rules? hmmmm interesting.

*smiles* fuck-off soc-x *smiles*

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thank you warjournal, i enjoyed you comment the best

moaiz is right IMHO, soc-x. He asked for opinions on a peticular subject, took them in stride. I don`t remember reading anything about * Please be shitty with me *

Also IMO, this is the kind of petty, bickering bullsh*t that drives people away, and I , for one, would like to see a lid put on it.



Boldly going nowhere

possibly a MS could be kind enought to close this topic?
I might have a sudden retarded urgh to delete this topic,
btw- thank you all for your input on this, i really appreciate it.

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Sorry for re-opening this thread, but I feel this is a pretty good thing to discuss. The idea of a "package" price has been raised again, and the question probably should have been more along the lines of "is this a good idea or not?" As has already been mentioned before, package deals generally don't work from the designers point of view, as some jobs take a long time, and some do not, depnds on many factors. Better would be to indicate something like "most simple 4-6 page sites average about $375". Then go into the hourly billing rate, and start discussing all of your jobs in terms of HOURS SPENT WORKING (ie: BILLING!!!)

You're typically better setting your hourly rate as high as possible, people will place more value on your work at $60/hour than they would at $10/hour. If the estimate of hours totals more than you *know* they'll be willing to pay, either quote the job normally and then offer them a percentage discount, just lie about your hours, pretend you'll do the entire job in 6 hours. Explain that it takes a few weeks because you're *only* billing them for the actual time worked, your time brainstorming and researching new things is overhead. (Well, it is!)

The main thing that you want to avoid is selling yourself too short. If you and others sell yourself cheaply, *all* freelance designers can suffer, I sometimes describe my last 7 years in this biz as "training clients to pay me more money!" Good design is worth it.

Someone else can close this thread again if you feel you must.

Optionally you can instead offer up some useful and constructive advices for people looking into getting into this biz as a paying gig, cool? Carry on, but play nice!

Your pal, -doc-

Just as a side note: we can also do without threats of your 'retarded urges' dark.
if you are so offended by someone's insult that you feel the need to delete an entire thread, that's your problem.

(just someone remember that before they continue calling us MS's the 'brown shirts' and so on....)

Just don't close it before I find out what an "urgh" is...

Ok this topic can continue on, I have got the input I was looking for and thank you doc your comment was worth the reopening! DL-44 you nver make any sence so I will just ignore you, ok?

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Funny how when I describe your actions even you say it doesn't make sense.



maybe funny isn't the word I'm looking for....perhaps......SAD fits better.



[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 08-27-2001).]

are you trying to insult, piss off, or make me laugh? cause you aren't doing a complete job of either....

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If you boys don't quit your bickering I'm going to have to put you to bed with no dinner.

krets! no dinner!? awe man, shoot, he started it, damn no dinner

nope, none of the above.

just sick of your shit, that's all.

sick of my shit? I don't seem to remeber any rule saying that you had to post in my topic. So you are tired of bringing your own shit to my topics? is that it? I only deal out the shit I recieve from others, thats only fair, don't you think? I do



[This message has been edited by Dark (edited 08-27-2001).]

Getting sick........

No wakkos this isn't sick. It's damn funny and I belive this topic has served it's purpose and it's time to put it to rest unless like doc suggested, someone has something intelligent to offer about package deals or web design.

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No dipshit, pastiing half a page of 'This Topic Is Dead And Can Be Deleted' in bold CAPS is fucking sick. you need helpo you wierd lil scrote.

have to agree with Soc-X I am afraid. I saw that post Dark and I don't understand why you keep making posts in threads and then deleting them? You have to remember there are alot of people who come to the Asylum and deleting posts and threads is not a good thing to do. Please be respectful. Thanks

~Vp~

No DINNER!!!