Preserved Topic: Attack Topic VI (Still No Sigs Please) (Page 1 of 1)

Well...here we go again.

The last topic is here: http://www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum1/HTML/002481.html

Donate at Amazon; http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/paypage/PKAXFNQH7EKCX/102-9380197-2142517
I've been watching this figure rise by about $1,000.00USD every few min.
I also took the time to figure that the average donation was between $35.00-$40.00USD.

To put this in perspective:
- About the cost of two music CDs.
- About the cost of an average computer video game.
- About the cost of one month, major news paper.
- About the cost of a pair of pants.
- About the cost of two cartons of cigarettes.
- About half the cost of Rolling Stones concert tickets.

I think everyone here can stand to donate at least that much. And if you can donate more, please do.
If you can donate time, labor, clothing, anything at all. The Red Cross not only helps those whom are working the wreakage, but those whom now have so little, when they began the week with everything.

You can also donate your time at your local Red Cross. They are always in need of people.

First of all Optic, it wasn't rude, it was damned fucking rude. But if you go back and read your post its exactly what you were saying.

Second of all, fine, lets go by your analogy.

Your mom should die of cancer because she has friends who smoke.

Sheds a little bit different light on it when you put your loved ones in the situation doesn't it?

F1 good to see you back man



:[ Computers let you make more mistakes faster than any other invention in human history, with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila. ]:

Oh, and they just arrested 10 more people with knives and similar weapons at two different airports. They all had falsified IDs and were accomplished pilots.

But yeah, lets give those bastards a nice slap on the wrist.

Yeah, krets.. they're going to regret this..

F1, welcome back, man.. long time no see..

My mother shouldn't die because her friends smoke, but if she does die because my father smokes a pack of unfiltered lucky strikes a day(like he does), and she's been standing downwind of him for 30something years, then she should be prepared to deal with it. I'm sorry, I'm not going to get all emotional when she lived with the full knowledge that she is living with a breathing cancer factory. And I love both of my parents dearly. There is a world of difference between what should be, and is. In the fairytale world, the friends and families of the thousands of civilians that our military has slaughtered over the past few years would be able to handle themselves with courage and honor, and bring their grievances against us in a civilized way. But in the real world, these people have no opprotunity to bring their claims against us, no chance to seek justice, and they are consumed with hate, and so seek to get vengeance in some way.

So No. It doesn't make one fucking bit of difference whether my loved ones are involved.

Don't think I support these actions, far from it. But we have been involved in war for some time now, and in war, there is no justice, no honor, no ethics.

As for giving them a slap on the wrist, I don't think anyone has even suggested that. But I am no victim of this, nor am I privy to any amount of knowledge regarding this other than that of the extremely biased american media, and as such will refrain from judging them.

Let the world be the jury, and the families of their victims the judge.

Come on guys; let?s leave our personal life out of this. What does your mom or dads have to do with this? I have to agree with krets on this. It DOES play out a lot different if you have had this hit close to home. I'm pretty much over the "shock" factor of this, but a lot of us are not! We have to be sensitive to other people's feelings. damn if I lost someone in this I would we fuckin mad still right now. you can't say it's wrong to be angry in that moment just because it is ultimately wrong to begin with. but, like krets said are we going to slap them on the wrist so they can have a change to hijack a plane that your family member is on? Or maybe we should let them come to you house and screw sister? This is an extreme, but yes it appears to be equally set up in my mind. Like I said this doesn't shock me anymore, but does that mean I can't be mad? Jesus hated the sin of the people, not the "people". I can still be angry for others as well.

I cope with all that have lost, and I wish to God I was on that plane, at least then I could say "I did my best to stop it", I think we all need to reevaluate our tolerance level and measure all the elements in this game before we tell someone here that their view of this isn't valid.

I got this info off of another MB I visit.

**************************************************************************
The date of the attack: 9/11 - 9 + 1 + 1 = 11
>
>September 11th is the 254th day of the year: 2 +5 + 4 = 11
>
>After September 11th there are 111 days left to the end of the year.
>
>119 is the area code to Iraq/Iran. 1 + 1 + 9 = 11
>
>Twin Towers - standing side by side, looks like the number 11
>
>The first plane to hit the towers was Flight 11
>
>There's More.......
>
>
>State of New York - The 11 State added to the Union
>
>New York City - 11 Letters
>
>Afghanistan - 11 Letters
>
>The Pentagon - 11 Letters
>
>Ramzi Yousef - 11 Letters (convicted or orchestrating the attack on the WTC
>in 1993)
>
>Flight 11 - 92 on board - 9 + 2 = 11
>
>Flight 77 - 65 on board - 6 + 5 = 11
>
********************************************************************************

Very interesting.

[This message has been edited by Xcessive Force (edited 09-14-2001).]

This comes down to whether you think this sort of unspeakable act of violence should be allowed to happen again or not. All the opportunistic rhetoric that I've just read in this thread can all be divorced from whether the world community is going to allow terrorism to continue to flourish.

Emp, I hope you had a chance to read this article that also appeared in the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,551028,00.html

I just heard something about 8 ppl getting arrested, because they were trying to hijack a fifth airplane just a few hours ago...

XF - that is very interesting...

[This message has been edited by CryoniX (edited 09-14-2001).]

[This message has been edited by CryoniX (edited 09-14-2001).]

Right on, Bug! That is the question. Stop it now. Not tommorrow, or sometime in the far future. Now. Here and now. Otherwise, the deathtoll through terrorist attacks will just grow. They won't stop by themselves. Someone has to stop them. Let it be us.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010914/ts/attack_afghan_muslims_dc_1.html

Jason

Bugimus: I did indeed read Hugo Young's piece which was one of three editorial articles on a page including the Seamus Milne link I posted. The Guardian's coverage has been impressive but there is so much material that it is difficult to track down some pieces so thanks for the link which takes a more balanced view of things (and he is right to say that we Europeans nee to start asking ourselves some serious questions too and we need to do it now). the third piece on the page, which I've just tracked down. Its from James Rubin and adds some interesting perspective to some of the discussion from both sides in this thread (esp. on retribution vs pre-emption):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,551067,00.html

Emps

Jason. Thanks for that link. *shakes* head. I have to say that I fear for Pakistan...

Stupid people should be shot.... well beat up ....

The guy that owned one of the flight schools in Florida just said on TV..... he took $1.500.00 CASH to train 2 of the guys they now have been identified as being terrorist on the planes. He stated that .....he thought it odd they only wanted to learn straight flights and turns yet no take off or landing....

Hello

WHY didn't he report foreigners asking for that type of training? Was it the almighty dollar? I am trying so hard to understand all of this weeks events. How this was such a easy thing for them to do. They say it was about 5 years of training and preparing this attack on our own soil yet nobody noticed. Sad...very sad. Excuse my ranting...my anger...my hurt...my numbness...this is such a sad thing to happen...but to see the RED FLAGS everywhere that could have stopped it.....makes me sick.

BTW.... Mike (Taxon) and all other military family members and friends...my prayers are with you



[This message has been edited by Shiiizzzam (edited 09-14-2001).]

Shi - The guy you where talking about, I mean he couldnt know that they were going to do this, its not his fault... It was weird that thay only wanted to learn that, but he couldnt have known that, just by tham wanting to learn that...

[This message has been edited by CryoniX (edited 09-14-2001).]

Nostradamus (nonsense)
look here for yourself!!what was really written

"In the City of God there will be a great
thunder,
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the
fortress endures, the great leader will
succumb",
The third big war will begin when the big
city is burning"
- Nostradamus 1654

what i found out!!

Unfortunately, Nostradamus died in
1566, so it's rather unlikely he wrote
this passage in 1654. The quatrain is
not to be found in his published
oeuvre. It's a hoax.


*dont always believe what you read**



[This message has been edited by Nell (edited 09-14-2001).]

Yeah, that's been pointed out already. I was given the quote by someone directly, and my only verification of it's validity was, "...is that a real quote, Virg?" "Yeah, it's real." so I posted it. I should have asked if it was a real NOSTRADAMUS quote... but I didn't. Oh well, so sue me. Nothing lost, nothing gained.

Actually Nell in the link you posted they made referance to a true Nostradamus quote. As well as pointing out the flaws in others.

This is from Henery C. Roberts translations of Nostradamus 1947.
Century VI
97
The heaven shall burn at five and
forty degrees,
The fire shall come near the great
new city,
In an instant a great flame dis-
persed shall burst out,
When they shall make a trial of
the Normans.

And the translators thoughts;
A cataclysmic fire shall engulf the greatest and newest of the world's big cities, particularly at the level of the 45th parallel, i.e., New York, Chicago, Minneappolis, San Francisco, Bucharest, Rome, Paris, and Madrid.

However if you read further;
Century VI
98
Ruin shall happen to the Vandals
that will be terrible,
Their great city shall be tainted, a
pestilent deed,
They shall plunder sun and moon,
and violate their temples,
And two rivers shall be red with
running blood.

And the translators thoughts on this one;
The atomic bombing of Hiroshima is foretold by Nostradamus. Its location, between two rivers, is given, as well as the mention of the temples of the Japanese. Also, once again, a prediction of the events following the acquittal of the four officers in the Rodney King trial.

While #97 seems to fit, the next #98 does not.
Now I have not studied Nostradamus, nor am I knowledgeable in his verses. But in my very humble opinion, this seems pretty bunk to the current situation.

It was very similar to the Persic Gulf situation too, and the IIWW too and everytime that something similar happens, Nostradamus comes out....

Yeah shiiz, cryonix is right. Everything looks so simple in hindsight, but it's not that easy in the present.

Two foreigners going to flight school in the US is in itself hardly evidence of terrorism because several foreign countries use US flight schools for their own legitimate pilots.
That they only wanted to practice flying and not take off or landing is also not suspicious in and of itself. These are usually the most difficult things a pilot has to learn and most beginners leave them for afterward or later. In fact, some people like to have an instructor of registered pilot perform take off and landing and take control of the plane only when it's in the air.

Looking back, it's easy to think that this might have been prevented but the reality is that we live in a society that values its freedom. In doing this, we sacrifice certain parts of our security. We value the freedom of being able to travel easily from state to state, but that also makes it possible for illegal items to be taken across state borders.

In the modern era, we have taken our safety for granted. We face no daily threats on our lives and feel a sense of security because of that. The truth is, while we are alive, there will always be danger. But we cannot let that paralyze us. We just have to go on living. However we can.

amen, silence. same goes for security measures at airports, and the general complacency that much of the Western world seemed to be settling into. what's that saying about hindsight being 20/20?

i for one find it fascinating that for years lobbyists have been trying to ban public prayer in schools and other forums... and then after a tragedy like this, one of the first things the US president does is set aside a day of national prayer and remembrance.

sometimes tragic loss can teach so much ..


//*Certified Card-Carrying Christian*//

United

The truth is one of those wonderous things that sweeps in and does damage to all things that stand in it's way ~Stephen~

I personally think Shiiizzzam could not be more on the money in her observations (pun intended). Foreign pilots do not train in bush (pun not intended) league little airports in Florida (i.e away from mainstream security). Foreign pilots need to takeoff and land as well fly on autopilot..but the real morons are the ones that rented out flight simulator time on the Boeings...you can't move from a Cessna to a Boeing without this kind of training...

Has anyone seen the pictures of the terrorists? They look like terrorists! and why would they want to spend so much time learning to fly a plane they would, in theory, never fly? Money talks. These guys should have been reported.

Sure there are guys like McVeigh who don't have the profile but there is an expression that learned medical doctors employ: when you hear hoof beats think horses, not zebras. If you take Occam a bit further, when you see terror think Middle East, not Midwest.

RED FLAGS WERE ALL OVER

*sigh*

qoute: "They look like terrorists!"

Could you please explain to me what a terrorist look like, so I know when to run?

*even deeper sigh*

instead of saying *sigh*, why don't you say what you really mean.. why hide your
condescension behind derivatives of smilies?

If you're implying i'm a racist, fine, do so. If you put my words back in context you will note that
the point i was trying to make was that the majority (not all) of terrorists share some commonality.

FACT: A few terrorists are Fundamentalists from the Middle East
FACT: A few people in the Middle East do not like the U.S.A.

SUGGESTION: Perhaps a few questions to people who "fit the profile" might be worthwhile

You know what? fuck this.

This isn't about race or any of that type of issues. It's hard to pick a person out of a crowd and say omg I think he would rob a bank...however, sometimes ...there ARE people that look a bit shady and a few if not most of these guys did. There were RED FLAGS everywhere ! Not to mention that AS SOON as the passenger list was GLANCED over they noticed KNOWN TERRORIST names on the list...right away.

Bottom line .... we live in a false make believe freedom. VERY laid back and as someone put it...hind site
is 20/20. There were signs of this ALL around us and yet cash was taken and terrorist taught how to ONLY fly in the air and turns and KNOWN terrorist were let on airplanes.

I hope out of all this death and destruction we learn something... many things.



[This message has been edited by Shiiizzzam (edited 09-15-2001).]

Hey everyboy!

Lets play our favorite game today.

SPOT THE TERRORIST!!!

This is a picture of a group of my best friends, can you spot the terrorists in this picture?




Here is the solution

The people who commited this act had been in the US for several years atlantid. They looked just like your or me with a little darker skin tone. Do you think any of the people pictured above feels any less heart broken than you or I? Should they be subjected to any stricter security at an airport than you or I?

Tough question isn't it?





[This message has been edited by kretsminky (edited 09-15-2001).]

I see them, I see them!!!! You better run away krets!


christ almighty......as if there hasn't been enough racist bullshit around here lately...

just for the record, the WTC buildings were full of people other than white americans.......


shutting this down.....if for some godforsaken reason anyone feels like continuing this, please, by all means, start another on



edit: Fixed DLs slimie. Way to go jackass!

[This message has been edited by kretsminky (edited 09-15-2001).]