Preserved Topic: Zeldman is (not) a ripper

He ripped this 13 year old, innocent guy. Even some of the text, like on the contact page, he ripped. http://www.nathanshor.com/

Hah. Wow. What sort of idiot would copy the design of what may be the most popular web designer out there?

(For those who aren't aware: www.zeldman.com was the original)

How did you find this? It should be submitted to pirated-sites.com if it hasn't already. And I'm sure Zeldman would like to know, unless he's already recieved hundreds of thousands of emails about it.

Actually he (not zeldman of course ) ripped both bratta.com (down at the moment) and pupius.co.uk some time ago too. I think that was reported to pirated-sites-com. I keep checking this one a little now and then for other rips, heh.
I mailed Zeldman yesterday too.



[This message has been edited by HZR (edited 01-17-2003).]

maybe the title of this thread should be changed, as it stands now it looks like zeldman is being called a ripper

yep.

Oh, sorry, just me being ironic.

Yup. Do it by the book...screenshots, emails...and this

Seems the boy has a forum here...already posted...

Just took a screenshot...saved.



[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 01-16-2003).]

quote:

---

maybe the title of this thread should be changed, as it stands now it looks like zeldman is being called a ripper

---

I think it's pretty clear that HZR was being sarcastic there....

Sarcasm? We don't much of that around here... what is it again?

quote:

---

Website made by Nathan Shor. NathanShor.com: Powered by Creativity.

---

Whose creativity??? That's classic!

Also the header graphic still has pieces of Zeldman's name in it. This ripper didn't even take the time to totally remove it. You've just got to love that, it's better than anything on TV.

I whipped an email off to Jeffrey earlier...included a screenshot. Chances are he'll be laughing about this soon enough.

Although he has given his rippers some exposure in the past by making them a nice entry on the zeldman.com frontpage.

Dl without getting ibn a long discussion about this , simply put anybody not knowing who zeldman is wouldnt get the sarcasm

nuf said, back on with the show

boy that's a widely used forum

seems that his host should just take it down and then ban him for constant use of others work. That's pretty bold to steal someones layout and stuff like Zeldman.

From the looks of it, it would seem that he also ripped some Photoshop tuts. Don't have time to go through them all, but, that Stone tut sure looks a lot like the Phong tut.

Later,

C:\


~Binary is best~

[This message has been edited by CPrompt (edited 01-16-2003).]

Oh. ok, let's delete this thread and start it over without the sarcasm for those 3 people who don't know who zeldman is

I didn't have time to go through the whole site, but wow, that is really sad. At least it's a 13 year old...

sad, no kidding, if you're gonna rip something at least make it interesting

Jason

Get a load of this Looks like he has taken his favorite past-time to regular artistry other than ripping off others websites.



The programmer's national anthem is 'AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH''

Wolfen's Sig Site

Yeah, that gradient at the bottom is a total Matisse ripoff. Nice work on the big swirly night sky, though...

quote:

---

nathan
Administrator:
what do you think?
Here is a picture I made with photoshop. Please tell me what you think.
nathan has attached this image:

-----------------
nathan
Administrator:
posted on 9-10-2002 at 07:38 AM hey nathan, I like it!

nice work!

---

LMFAO

Ooooh, nice catch Jeni. this is an odd duck, or perhaps he doesn't think anyone's watching him? If that's the case we just walked in on him in his mom's underwear singing BSB at the top of his lungs. Or maybe it's his daily affirmations therapy? Now I'm embarrassed.

Jason

Please to be interesting oneself in comparing these pages two:
http://www.phong.com/tutorials/newstone/
http://www.nathanshor.com/experimental/tutorials/stone.html


How did the final image from both come out identical in pattern? It looks like our good little ripper started with his own images in his tute but couldn't finish it somewhere along the way and substituted Phong's image from there on out. Could anyone check me on that?

you guy, I think it would be the best idea to leave him alone. Flaming him wont help. Let him discover his mistakes by himelf, and maybe then he'll take care of it. As much as I think he's an idiot, maybe he just doesnt understand.

Not about flaming...it's about copyright infringement.

If someone doesn't show him what's wrong with it, then how exactly do you propose that he "discover his mistakes by himself"?

Nope, mailing him to let him know what the problem is is a first step. Sorry man, that's just the way it is.

holdfold, if he really doesn't understand then perhaps he won't mind being told why what he's doing is wrong. It's good to make him aware of the problem and then give him a chance to correct it. If he does, then all will be well. If he doesn't, then we'll know he really doesn't care about hurting others.

He's just a kid. I think it would be best to stop flamming, delete all post (especially his), and talk o him. Maybe it's all the posting that's causing this. I really think this would be the best way to handle this case. I'm sure I can persuade him, but I'll need all your help to STOP IT ALL. It may be a long process, but it would be worth it. EMail me privately to continue this converstaion.

Thanks,
--holdfold

Check your mail.

Holdfold, nobody's flaming anything. They're just contacting the original website owner as well as the individual involved to point out the ramifications of what's wrong.

Also, there shouldn't be any persuasion involved at all. If I'm caught speeding, I'm sure the cop isn't going to persuade me to take the ticket.

Now imagine that scenario when applied to copyright infringement. If you decide to come out with a soft drink called Coco-Cola and use the exact same logo as Coca-Cola, their lawyers are going to be on you like a ton of bricks.

Website designers usually don't have that kind of legal muscle and have to rely on their friends and people in the internet community to protect their copyright interests.

Well...looks like he deleted my post...

So it's gonna be like that, is it?

That's a very bad sign.

Bugs : Yea, they age definately the same image. Color adjusted, or maybe a new flat light, but they are identical in every other way.
Any of you math majors want to figure the odds against that using a random filter as a base ?



<edit> Good thing is, the forum only seems to have 4 members ( including WebShaman )</edit>

[This message has been edited by docilebob (edited 01-17-2003).]

Well...just spammed his forum...he'll have fun deleting...

Zeldman...now, where did I hear it from?

"Trust" is a dirty word that comes only from such a liar but "respect" is something I will learn...if you have faith!!

http://www.zeldman.com/ perhaps? Yannah, the person behind that site is a very respected and long standing member of the Internet as we know it. But then of course you could be confusing his name with the Legend of Zelda game?

[This message has been edited by Bugimus (edited 01-17-2003).]

The two are closer than you think.

I remember that now but I totally forgot it was called that. Cool beans.

This thread shocked me. I thought Jeff Zeldman really did that. Next time I wish to see a better thread title..

he put his board in super stealth mode but I used my leet hacking skillz to cipher it's whereabouts. Next I shall hack the gibson.

Jason

Hehe...he's really trying to avoid taking the ripped stuff down...*sigh*

Why do they always respond like that? Would be a lot easier, to apologize, and then take the ripped stuff down.

He's blocked my registered name, again, so I registered as YouRipper...hehe...

He's also blocking E-Mail addresses...

Thanks, JK...for the link.

WS: 'UR A L337 W/-\NK3R RIpp3R NOW, HUH?' you are funny



The programmer's national anthem is 'AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH''

Wolfen's Sig Site

OK, I wasn't sure how well this was going to work, but I did manage to change the title of this thread. Good thing it's a slow time of the [night/day/whatever], or I might have screwed someone else up! I didn't, did I?


Your pal, -doc-

What I posted on his forums... (sung to the barney theme song...)

I rip you...
You rip me...
We're a ripping family...
With the html and the javascript too...
We all wanna to rip like you.



The programmer's national anthem is 'AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH''

Wolfen's Sig Site

If it's about copyright infringement, let the original designers/artists deal with him. If the original designers/artists do not take the appropriate action, then the ripping fest will continue. While Cease & Desist letters might help, C&D letters with attorney backing will accomplish a lot more.

I really don't want to say about the flood of "you're a leet ripper" posts on his forums though. Hrm... I don't see how that accomplishes anything except wasting your valuable time.

What if he's doing this to gain attention? I mean, otherwise, he'd just shut it all down. He just wants the whole world to see his site, really. So what would happen if we just screwed this whole thing?

The problem is, that it's not all 'his' site...that the title page belongs to Zeldman...and that's not only wrong, but it is illegal. And to the point - if he needs to resort to ripping to get attention, then he has a problem, and I mean a big one. There are plenty of legal means of getting attention...namely, by joining a forum (or whatever) and/or learning the skills necessary to design such a page. Play is one thing...and having someone's permission to use their work is also one thing...but ripping is plainly another.

Then, is his reaction...or lack of reaction, one could say. Yes, he is getting attention...but it is negative attention. It would be much easier, on him, to just drop the ripped stuff. Also, if one just ignores this, it only serves as encouragement, especially later. One could say, that we are doing a favor, and letting him know, in no uncertain terms, that his behavior is wrong, and illegal.

By not reacting to this, it will only encourage him, IMHO. I have seen this type of stuff, again and again...they start ripping young, and grow up to be 'better' rippers, later... and tend to use the excuse 'Oh, I didn't know that that was wrong' when caught...well, now he knows.

Well...he's dropped the forum...looks like he has either renamed the start URL for the forum or has shut it down, for now...but the Main page is still there...

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 01-17-2003).]

Well, by the looks of it, he's pretty good at ripping. I've heard he's ripped other sites as well in the past. Perhaps he's trying to get in the newspapers?

Hehehe...someone calling themselve's 'Ripman' just put a good one up there on his forum.

here's his whois data:
http://www.register.com/whois-results.cgi?ee3a07e4abb7a1810d53f869b9e8a979449dcb275ddf0c35501162ef6f5690fb297f7de02f02ec208d424af44f536b62

Rippers baaad!

We also have IP traces, through WHOIS:

quote:

---

VeriSign reserves the right to modify these terms at any time.

The data in Register.com's WHOIS database is provided to you by
Register.com for information purposes only, that is, to assist you in
obtaining information about or related to a domain name registration
record. Register.com makes this information available "as is," and
does not guarantee its accuracy. By submitting a WHOIS query, you
agree that you will use this data only for lawful purposes and that,
under no circumstances will you use this data to: (1) allow, enable,
or otherwise support the transmission of mass unsolicited, commercial
advertising or solicitations via direct mail, electronic mail, or by
telephone; or (2) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes
that apply to Register.com (or its systems). The compilation,
repackaging, dissemination or other use of this data is expressly
prohibited without the prior written consent of Register.com.
Register.com reserves the right to modify these terms at any time.
By submitting this query, you agree to abide by these terms.


Organization:
AT&T Corp.
Corporate Administrator
32 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10013
US
Phone: 908-221-5578
Fax..: 908-221-5581
Email: no.email.here@att.com

Registrar Name....: Register.com
Registrar Whois...: whois.register.com
Registrar Homepage: http://www.register.com

Domain Name: ATTBI.COM

Created on..............: Tue, Oct 02, 2001
Expires on..............: Sat, Oct 02, 2004
Record last updated on..: Mon, Apr 01, 2002

Administrative Contact:
AT&T Corp
Legal Demands Center
183 Inverness Drive West
Englewood, CO 80112
US
Phone: 800-871-6298
Fax..: 720-267-2794
Email: abuse@ATTBI.COM

Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
AT&T Corp.
William Holland
8372 E. Broad Street
Reynoldsburg, OH 43068
US
Phone: 614-501-2720
Fax..: 614-501-2702
Email: william.h.holland@att.com

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.ATTBI.COM 204.127.198.4
NS2.ATTBI.COM 216.148.227.68
NS6.ATTBI.COM 63.240.76.4
NS5.ATTBI.COM 204.127.202.4

Register your domain name at ]http://www.register.com

---

and VisualRoute:

This link still works...hehe...here

Looks like the forums are still there...just the index has been moved(or taken down, or renamed, whatever)...I guess he is actually reading this thread...so he knows that he has done wrong.

He's also not that smart...but then, we knew that already. I also send off an email.

Any word from Mr. Zeldman?

He should be happy -- his forum's getting plenty of activity. In fact, it's practically buzzing.

Maybe he rips people so his site gets a lot of hits for secret banners or something crappy.
http://www.nathanshor.com/emotions

BA HA HA HA HAHA HAH AHAHAHAHAHahah ha h ah .dfmgsmgd,m.. .. . ' ~ -

He needs one for "horny."

"Me sooo horny!"

Today I feel...like putting a damn shirt on!

I'm confused. Who is holdfold , and why are you taking up for him? Just like the others said, this is how we do things here.

Later,

C:\


~Binary is best~

Tom and I thought that this little piece I did wasn't bad





[This message has been edited by Skaarjj (edited 01-17-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Skaarjj (edited 01-17-2003).]

Hahaha

lol

Hehehe i dont mind donating a bit of space to skaarj for such an awsome piece of work......


Kind of Ironic, Having fun made out of ya by your own images, talk about giving the enemy perfect ammunition...ROCK ON SKAARJ




[This message has been edited by tomeaglescz (edited 01-17-2003).]

Hahaha!

Lol!!!

Oh man...that's gold, man...puuuure gold!

Good show, Skaarjj.

this thread has got to be archived even if its just for the sake of skaarj's image, that is a classic, they say pictures are worth a thousand words...

You funny bastard Wolfen Just read your posts at that place and before what you said in this thread. LMFAO&IWMP&PMSL!!!!!!!!
Mind you, LMAO @ Skaarjj's pic! *thumbs up*

They should have rules about little shits like this 13 yo kid having forums, webpages or anything like this or whatever. His too young I think and has got a foggiest as to whats going on.


"You don't know how paralysing that is, that stare of a blank canvas, which says to the painter: you can't do a thing." - Vincent Van Gogh

[This message has been edited by Luxo_Jr (edited 01-17-2003).]

Lol, great work Skaarjj

Any word from Zeldman yet?

_________________________
"There are 10 kinds of people; those who know binary, those who don't and those who start counting at zero"

I think the addition of 'holdfold' in shor's defense is a little time suspicious don't you? 3 posts all in this thread and all in his defense? Leaves me wondering.

GrythusDraconis
I admire a man who can budget his life around his pint of Guinness and I envy a man who's wife will let him. ME, inspired by Suho1004 here.

I think it might be a good idea to stop spamming his forum so heavily as it does seem a little 'childish' and liable to muddy our good name

Try and engae him in constructive debate, etc. It might not work but I think we are more likely to make a change if we point out in a reasonable manner where he is actually going wrong - some people do have some funny ideas about copyright and putting him on the defensive isn't the best way of getting the message through.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I agree. Lets try and be constructive, not destructive. I think it's a little early for him to get slapped in jail. But he does need to know what's going on. I'm not saying leave him alone. Lets just be a little more... gentile about it.

GrythusDraconis
I admire a man who can budget his life around his pint of Guinness and I envy a man who's wife will let him. ME, inspired by Suho1004 here.

quote:

---

Lets just be a little more... gentile about it.

---

Are you suggesting we're being too...Jewish?

Yeah, Wes, maybe we shouldn't crucify him just yet.

Perhaps a friendly email to his host about the activities would be in order, unless that's already done.

silence: Technically its not really our business - none of us have been ripped and no one has asked for our help. So we can grab information and pass it on those effected and express our concerns to the ripper but we don't have any authority to report them to their host as Zeldman may not wish to take it any further.

It does look like our friend should be filed under 'One to watch' - those repeat offenders are the trickiest ones

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

... And where the fuck is RipperReport?!?


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

uhhh... guys, the forums are now gone.... just to let you know... hehehe...

I emailed holdfold as soon as he asked me too to continue the conversation and I have not gotten any reply so I'm starting to think that was either our friend or one of his friends. Oh well. Has anyone gotten any replies back from Nathan about this?

This is a great site to look around, look at this gem: http://www.nathanshor.com/aip/
Not that its funny, but its prolly original content . . .

"I am planning to do a monthly journal kind of thing, "The Monthly Bowl," in correlation with The Daily Dish. It will consist of neat satirical articles--yes, kind of like in The Onion. "
Someone is obviously ready with their copy+paste hat on.

I really wanna see what he does next, should be a giggle.

edit: Have you read his short stories ? . . . priceless:
?John, what are you doing? Are you out of you mind?? asks the duck.
?No, Brewster, I?m fine?


It reminds me of the stories at: http://www.realultimatepower.net/ (but there a piss take)

[This message has been edited by Hugh (edited 01-18-2003).]

You ever seen a 13yr old kid with a mustrash before???? Looks closer to 16, maybe even 18.

I don't call that a mustache.

My nephew had something similar about that age, actually. Wasn't really a mustache, wasn't really...not one.

I guess you could say it was "not unlike a mustache."

No, he isn't 13. Unless he is a really early bloomer.

Actually he said 13 in his forum (not that I trust that guy ).

[This message has been edited by HZR (edited 01-19-2003).]

Take a look now http://www.nathanshor.com/

Sufficiently unripped?

This falls into the category of "People Unclear on the Concept."

and...just to be Australian on the subject, it also falls into hte category of 'Complete and utter Mad Drongos'

Say, I like both of those actually, but here's my take (a dumbed-down version of PT's): "People who Just Don't Get It."

I also took the time to read through some of his crap, and I found these two gems quite amusing...

quote:

---

Working on a school project, knowing someone who speaks a different language, or just for plain fun, we all at some point use a translator--in this case, let's say dictionary.com's translator. But they aren't perfect, I mean, all languages are different.

---

OK... so the reason that computer translation programs suck is that all languages are different? Well, yeah, I guess they would work pretty well if all languages were the same.

quote:

---

I just finished reading The Catcher In The Rye. It¡¯s a pretty good book.

---

That's his entire post. Sounds 13 to me, if not chronologically, then at least mentally.

Heh. Mail from Nathan

quote:

---

Dear WebShaman,

Thank you very much for your letter. First of all, I'd like to assure
you that I didn't mean any harm when using Zeldman's design. I'm just
a beginner (13 years old) and did not realize I was doing something
wrong. I was just very fascinated with Zeldman&#8217;s design. Please accept
my sincere apology.

I would very much appreciate it if you could please give me some time
to change my site. I can&#8217;t take it down (for some extremely important
personal reason I need to have it available at all times).

Thank you for your consideration,
Nathan

---

Anybody hear from Zeldman yet?

Been following this thread and I must say that if this reply from him is honestly meant (the site has changed after all, perhaps not that much, but it's at least an attempt), he has answered in a way that is a lot more mature than most 13 year olds that I'e seen.
Esp after the "treating" his forum went through. I'm impressed he didn't blow his top completley.

May I suggest a temporary truce until we see any reactions from zeldman? After all, they must decide if the apology and the redesign is enough, we can't really do that can we?

ANd Nathan, in case you are reading this. I hope you sent a similar letter to zeldman, I figure that would do you good.
/Dan

{cell 260}
-{ a vibration is a movement that doesn't know which way to go }-

Yup. I agree. I think any further action is now in Zeldman's hands...

Thanks to all for helping on this one...good job.

Yes what DmS said (no need to apologise to us but I'm sure Zeldman might appreciate one).

We'll keep this thread open to see if there is anything from Zeldman and then I think we can shut it down (until next time).

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

....ripper.....report.....

status?


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

I'm still working on the content...I'll get it over to my content partner...

PS: And I'll sort what needs to be done to get the design working crossbrowser and make sure it gets done. Happy?

[edit: Oh and WS and I have had a bit of chat about strategy and what needs doing to push this through to completion so no need to worry there - technically it wouldn't have helped in this case anyway (despite some of the spam on his forum mentioning the Ripper Report) ]

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

~LMAO~

Okay, Jeffrey was apparently swamped with email over this. I really hope that not TOO many of those clogging blights came from the people here. I know we're ravenous dogs around here...most, poorly fit for human cohabitation but...

Nonetheless, no more clogging. After an initial email is sent, he really will read it...no need to do it en masse. Still, good show guys (aside from the teenaged antics).

Heh =) I would believe that many other individuals found the site, too. I doubt all those emails came from us. =) (I, for one, didn't send him an email; didn't think it would help anything, since he doesn't know me personally)

The next ripper case that comes up will be a test of whether we've refined our methods.

We need to be much more clear about not letting loose all our might *until* it is warranted. Rippers need to be given a chance to correct the problem before we pounce on them. I'm not sure how we can make this more clear around here but I'm sure there's a way. Remember our reputation as a community can be damaged by our actions if we're not careful. I would like to think we have a good to decent rep now.

Check: http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0103c.shtml#thief

Bugs (as always) makes some good points there and I'd like to reiterate some of my own before closing this thread down:

1. No inmate was ripped.

2. The people who were ripped didn't ask for our help.

Although we all (?) respect Zeldman and his work all that was required here was for people to grab a few screenshots and drop Zeldman an email (and let us know that you had so you aren't spamming their inbox). Anything beyond that was not only overkill but just not required.

As Bugs said - perhaps we can learn from this for the next time?

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I'd just like to add that we've had this conversation may times before.

It seems that every time someone finds a rip (or alleged rip) people just want to jump all over it and the real issue just gets totally buried in a bunch of stupid self righteous bullshit.

The range of nonsensical reaction always ranges from infantile and abusive crap like went on in this guys forum, to people who like to show off how many legal terms they've heard in their life, and threaten the person with some sort of punishment or legal action.

It's really sad quite frankly, and I'm embarrased sometimes by the level to which many people here seem to sink in an effort to show how high and mighty they think they are.

I really wish people would learn that it's not their place to fight a battle that doesn't involve them, and for which their help has not been solicited.

Wanna report it? Great!

Wanna offer your assistance? Great!

But realize that unless your help is requested, it's not your palce to act on the issue!

I`ve stayed quiet about all these incedents before, but since the subject is up...
I have to agree (out loud) with Bugs, Emps, and DL. This kind of unsolicited, infintile response is embarassing, as well as unwarrented. I hope we can expect a more mature approach from the Ripper Report when it goes live.

I understand that the hearts were in the right place, but the heads weren`t .

Just my .02

db:

quote:

---

I hope we can expect a more mature approach from the Ripper Report when it goes live.

---

You can your ass it will. We hope to establish 'guidelines' for action which will cover the steps people should take if they've been ripped and if they've spotted a rip. Its clear we haven't (as a group) learned much from the mistakes of the past and the more clearly its stated the better - I'm not really there is anything that will be 100% effective against people forming a baying mob and rushing off to lynch the 'offender' but after this mess I'm quite prepared to rapidly shut this kind of thread down in the future.

So for futrue reference:

If you think you spot a site which has ripped another one take screenshots and email the person who has been ripped.

If they want advice on how to progress then they should contact the ripper and let them know, in reasonable and moderate terms, that you think they have stolen your content. If you still think you have a case then contact their host.

The Ripper Report will be providing support, help and advice for people who have had their content stolen and won't act as a meeting room for potential lynch mobs.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

ripping here, ripping there.........but remember: I AM STILL THE BEST RIPPER



-THE SPACE-

I can only stress what Emps said - the RipperRepport is not for 'abuse', or for fancies...it's a serious site...and professional. If it ever comes to a point, where it starts to get out of hand, I'll personally shut down the website. It's one thing, to have people running wild over a ripped site...quite another, for a site that includes Educate and Protect as a basis for functioning, to do so. Not to mention of how it would reflect on the seriousness, and professionalism that we wish to bring to the subject...I think we had this discussion before, as the RipperReport was first being formed.

As for the 'running wild' that has occured, I must also guiltily raise my own hand...yes, it could of (and should of) been better handled, that is true. However, the fact that the ripper in this case was not willing to be reasonable on the issue, and was given more than enough time, and reasonable suggestions, that were ignored, is also a factor, I think. Still doesn't excuse the behavior, though...I will keep this in mind, for future occasions.

And now we have heard from WS I think it is time to shut this down.

Perhaps next time we'll get it right. Perhaps.........

[edit: Damn always the one for a quick last word Hopefully by extracting our dealings with content thievies ut of the madhouse we should be able to take some of the 'heat' out of these kind of things.]

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor