Preserved Topic: PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT :: SiteComp (Page 1 of 2)

Good day to all my friends out there in web design world. I have a proposal that I would love to see take off in some direction.

I'm certain many of you remember my idea for WTF. Lamentably, I've not had time to finish putting it all together. I got a momumental response from it all (though few submissions--not an excuse, mind you) because it gave designers *something to do that was 100% creative*.

Well, by now I'm sure you also remember that this medium (the web) is one that anyone can participate in and publish with. Well, that's all fine and dandy, but so many people care about hits.. about revenue.. about so many things that are, for the most part, irrelevant.

Because of this trend in development, we've lost sight of the true goal -- the publication of sites to exist on the Net. I offer a change for that, if in a small part, in this small cubby of the Net.

Design. Design something. Put the site together. Publish it. Relate to it. Make it personal. Make it hip. Make it interesting. Make it substantial. Make it important.

Then few people that I've selected will help decide which is the best. And there's a prize involved. Those involved in the judging are exempt from winning the prize. There are no other disclaimers.

here is the official site. It's a placeholder, really, right now. Wait patiently. Design. Please. Give us back our medium.


stephen

and no comments about it not working in anything. I had to throw this up as a placeholder. Just wait. It'll be cross-happy sooner or later.

[This message has been edited by twItch^ (edited 04-25-2001).]

Isn't that the idea anyway...I mean, for some of us, we just throw a design up as our digital soapbox. I care less about who, when, how, and the number of hits I get. I had to worry about that as a job once. Hell, I'm happy if I get hate mail.

So, with that said...What requirements does a site have to have?

.: the gweeble did it :.

<shot in the dark>

It has to be:

1. A website.

</shot in the dark>

Your shot is right on target, Matt.

Though there's something else: It has to be created specifically for this competition. It's not something that you can pull up and enter. If I find anyone that does that, it's immediate disqualification. *freshness* is the key here. Remember that.

I'm stupid and I need an example. What should be the filler for this web site, or else is it going to be a splash page?

- VHS -

C O N T E N T - I S - K I N G .

It's your site. Make it so. "Just a splash page" isn't going to win.


stephen

[This message has been edited by twItch^ (edited 04-25-2001).]

Did you even go to the site VHS?

"Design something that is important to you."

Its up to you to make that decision my friend.

I was asking in terms of content and freshness, Kretsminky.

Those questions have been answered.

twItch^, good luck on your endeavor...If I had more free time, I would throw something together for it.

.: the gweeble did it :.

I'd hate to say it, but what I see in the site show above is a splash page. What I am saying is if it is a web site, then that means that there is more than just a page.


Never mind, I'll just go ahead and finish designin my own site. If I have any extra time, I'll go ahead and enter in a splash page.

- VHS -

Another fun idea.

Regrettably, I'll be totally choked up until the end of may, and won't be able to do...well...anything but study and sum up my reports

When is the deadline?


-nimraw
If you can't convince, confuse!

Yes, very interesting idea in deed... What kind of Time Frame are we talking about for this.... Is it open to all, or just US residents??

Dracusis

hey twitch,
nice idea, i think the broadness of the specs could scare some people off though.
too self-creativity-centric.

Q1: can one submit a (fresh) site that one has/will make a profit on? (eg current project, commercial site)

Q2: would you have any idea on the weighting of content and presentation when judging entries? (or are these two factors two interreated to do so?)

Q3: what's the timeframe?

Q4: does this mean you wont have a submission for the competition?

Yes, what is the time frame we are looking at here?

This sounds cool! I'm not a guru but I can at least try...thanks for the opportunity!

Jesus... Sometimes I have to wonder why you people are even in this business. Some of you clearly have no joy in what you do. You have no inspiration. You have no glittering worlds with which to play with reality in. It hurts me to read some of your words...I don't have time...You make time for the things that are truly important to you. I don't wanna...Then you're in the wrong business. I might throw something together...Are all of your projects similarly shipshod?

Now to the specifics, as clearly no one wants to design for the sake of design, and no one wants to create content for the sake of creating content. Deeply sorrowful, I am today.

VHS ~ You'll note that yes, that (and I quote myself) "placeholder" is nothing more than what you would call a splash page. That's true. It's also (and I'll quote myself *again* for the sake of people that are clearly too busy to read my words) a "placeholder." Move on from that. The *idea* is what I'm going for here. coolingtrend.com *IS NOT A SUBMISSION* It is an information page. Make sense? I kinda thought it was delightfully evident.

And I direct my entire first paragraph at you. If you "don't have time," then you're in the wrong business, buddy.

gweeble ~ It's lamentable that you've simply not enough time. Refer to paragraph one.

nimraw ~ Refer to paragraph one. And for the record, this is not only a competition for *design* but also for *content* If you're studying something that is particularly interesting, then ~cough~ make a fucking site for it. Chances are good that someone else wants to learn it too. Try sharing. It's an awesome idea. The Internet is a huge library...perhaps we could start treating it as one?

As for the deadline, I'm no good at that. I figure I'll leave that open for a few more days, and see what kind of response I get. This is, as of right now, going to be solely a ozone asylum project. I don't want to pit *real* professionals against you guys. ~ducks the flying produce~ I just want people to contribute to the medium that *I* for one have sworn my undying allegiance to.

Dracusis ~ Refer to above paragraph, and it's open to *everyone* because so is the Net.

bunchapixels ~ I personally hate to add stipulation onto something like this. If someone is incapable of producing something that is totally creative and self-centric, then they're *really* in the wrong field. Like, completely. This idea is something that should *drive* people to do something new and fresh, something unbounded by corporate policy, by language barriers, by anything of that kind. It should be something that interests anyone that *creates* things online.

So, to answer your questions (ones not answered above): I'd hate to accept commercial projects. This is about content, this is about expression. If you're selling yourself and your words, then sure, I guess I can accept that. If you're selling a dot-com, then no. I don't see that as a personal expression. As for content and presentation factors, they are *completely* seperate...well, they should be anyway. The judging will be done by a panel of people (whom have been informed and accepted and unveiled later) that are professionals in the field (myself included). We will judge on many, many aspects, each one taken apart piece by piece. I feel that's important. Of course I will have a submission. Mine just won't be judged (or, perhaps, it'll just be dissected by the panel for all to see) and I cannot win the prize. I design personal and non-profit sites *all the time.* It's one of my passions to give content to the thing that also happens to fill my belly as well as my soul. Just makes sense.

taxon ~ Refer to above.

Allewyn ~ See, I like your spirit. You're doing this for the right reasons. An opportunity... some people need a kick in the pants to get them to do something that takes time and *won't* net them a profit. Thanks for showing interest.

To All ~ As I said above, I'm kinda insulted by some of your reactions. Seriously. Wounded. This isn't about me, it's not about you. It's about the Net, and what it's fucking for. If you don't want to contribute to it because of time constraints or such, fine, just don't fucking tell me. Because I will get on your case like flies on shit. Why? I work 12-16 hours a day in an office, doing what I am paid to do--develop and design websites. When I come home, I do it more... sometimes for profit, oftentimes not. I do it because I like to. I do it because it inspires me to change new things, try out new ideas and experiment with the medium in new ways...to give something back.

Write about what you know. Why? Because you can.

It's not costing you any money.

My asking you to participate isn't insulting your "professional" integrity....

so why the hesitation? Why the barriers? What is it that you're protecting? To me, you just look like backwards-talking folk from another planet. You people, that come on here preaching to help people, asking for help...and you give it and get it.... yet when I ask for your help, on behalf of the MEDIUM, I get resistance.

Seriously.

I'm not asking for the world.

I'm asking for what you know.

For what you're passionate about.

Maybe I'm simply talking to the wrong crowd.


stephen

*leaves to go to his thinking corner*

quote:

---

This is, as of right now, going to be solely a ozone asylum project. I don't want to pit *real* professionals against you guys.

---

LOL

This sounds like fun. I might have a go at it. The content part does make it a bit more of a challenge, rather than just making a design.
Now I just need to come up with something I could do it about... *think, think, think*

This sounds like fun! I guess I could "throw something together?"

I don't know about the rest of you, but I use those words a lot, but they go *way* deeper than the surface, twItch^, please don't be insulted if I use that phrase, it's my attempt at modesty (not one of my strongest points, heh.) I think most people have trouble coming up with that content thing, it's one of the most frequent questions I get, "what should I *put* on my webpage?" Well, what d'ya got? =) This could be hard for me, typically as soon as I actually have 6 things that are roughly in the same category I make a webpage/archive thing out of it, it's what I *do*. As a result I gotta dig for something else to publish about.

Hmm, many of my current ideas revolve around toys/interfaces, could that be in line? My take is that as long as it can also work as a stand-alone project it should be fitting, but I don't really know.

Altars! Virtual altars to the things that are important to you, that could work. I like Photoshop, maybe I can do one of those. Slime could do an "ode to maths", Phil could write about his favorite truck, stuff like that? Here's one of my favorites, a friend of mine built this virtual altar to celebrate her lime-gree Karmen Ghia, at http://members.aol.com/ghiapet72/ - good site, and possibly inspiration for those of you uncertain as to what to write about.

I'll repeat, "what d'you got?"

Your pal, -doc-

*snickers at Twitch^'s frustration*

Hmm, I am just checking back here since I have a few minutes. I noticed that Gweeble and I have had our last posts deleted. I was just wondering why.

- VHS -

Wow, cool, I was just recently considering making one of those "weblog" or "blogger" things, basically online journals. Maybe I'll do that for this. I've been wanting to do some DHTML style sheet stuff too, that might be fun to integrate with this. Perhaps I could even use a little of the Perl I know to make it cooler...

VHS: Doc said there was a bit of trouble with the new server, probably nothing serious.

Ok.. I know what exactly you mean, twItch^ and I'm happy because you brought this in, thanks. So, we're going to design. yes, I like it. I think I'm gonna give it a try, or maybe two or more. THis is probably the place where I can put in and tweak in an out all the skills I've learnt and some engaging personal stuffs I've made before ( never publish them, still looking for a dedicated server).

This is, IMHO, just great. I love challenges, don't you? I'm gonna use some freeservers. Is that OK?

Rather than repost my missing post, I will just say...
Have fun folks.

.: the gweeble did it :.

twitch^ I love making web sites, contrary to what you beleive. Personally I don't care if you don't think that I am worthy of making web sites or not. I'm not trying to claim to be the greatest web designer, or even a descent one at that. However, what I do have is dedication for what I love to do.

- VHS -

Well content is no problem.

I've got a lot of stuff I'm constantly writing on just out of sheer interest, and I'm trying to come up with a new graphic manner for my oil-and-canvas stuff. (I just realized that the latest beta sucks - both code and design)

I really want to participate! However for me the deadline is of the essence. At the moment I have no spare time at all, and since I'm a very mediocre coder, taking my PS design and getting it to work as a GUI takes quite some amount of time. (Not even caffeine makes me do a good job if sleep is too far away )

I do not just want to whip something up. If I'm going to enter, I'd like to do it to the best of my ability, and that takes some of the precious time I actually devote to sleeping at the moment, since I do not function well with under 5 hours/night.

I sure hope this thing can come through as I think it's a great idea, and I hope I'll be able to enter.

-nimraw
If you can't convince, confuse!



[This message has been edited by Nimraw (edited 04-27-2001).]

I thought I'd replied here already, but since reading Slimes post, maybe that's why it's not showing.

Anyways......

twitch^, I shall be submitting a site and will mail you at the weekend.

Many apologies to folks who lost their posts. We changed servers yesterday, and while your DNS was waiting to be updated you were probably posting on the *old* version of this thing. I don't see any safe way to merge the two units, If I had thought about it in time I would have closed the old one but didn't catch it in time. Appy polly woggies!

I think I will do an altar to Photoshop, why it is great, etc... Fun!

Your pal, -doc-

You probably never heard of where I'm from, so I'm going to design a web about it. I give it a try...

hm.

ok.

..::Why Do I Design??::..
Twitch I may have misread your statements above, but to me it sounds as if you think that someone who doesn't do a site for pure art and design reasons isn't really doing a site. Design and art are a huge part of my life (already headed towards an art major in college 2 years from now) but when I do a site I do it over something I like not just to design. If I don't have content for a site that I think will interest someone else on the net (such as my life or sumthin... unless pple like hearing about parties, friends, sports, bad grades, music, and movies...) then I don't try and create a site for nothing. Cause I feel if its not going to benefit someone or actually be interesting to someone think of somethin else to do it on. And I may sound a little stupid/whiney/picky or sumthin in this post and if I do im not meaning it. Its just my humble opinion about why a site should be made.
Just to restate... do a site for the love of sumthing not just for the love of yurself.
>>ACO
P.S. to alley - What'd u think of the last 2 eps? Yur email addy keeps saying it cant deliver so im askin u on here lol I think sin francisco was the best ever but o wellz cya

Well ACO.... I think you may have slightly contridicted yourself somewhere in there.
Anywho...

As twItch^ said....

quote:

---

C O N T E N T - I S - K I N G .

---

ACO - im going to type slowly. im not sure if that will help, but i can only try.
here is my interpretation of this great commission:

combine two passions to make a website.

passion 1: the web as a medium.
passion 2: (photoshop, big rigs, your car, your pet, your life, your artwork/poetry) <-insert your own there

Q: why do i need to be passionate about these two things?
A: well, the reason for you making the website is because you want to add to the web. not for money, just for the web. if your not passionate about the web, then dont bother. if the medium doesnt interest you, how can you expect to create something interesting in it?
Next, you need to be passionate about your site content so that it actually *has* content. this is to avoid any 'spash page' type predicaments that VHS already voiced. If you're passionate about something, you will be ready to write about it, or research it, or take pictures of it, and you will know what sort of layout it will need, and what colors could suit it, what register best suits your delivery of information, what type of audience would appreciate your site, what existing links there may be to reinforce your site - if you're passionate about your subject, it will be a heck of a lot easier to create and fill out your site.

addendum - am i making sense? look at the site doc supplied: http://members.aol.com/ghiapet72/ see how you can just tell that this person is passionate about their car? ('i drive art' - that's beautiful.) see how they embraced the web? see how it seems that the only purpose of this site is to make people smile? see how my typing has soooo much bloody momentum? once i start, it's verbal diarrhea.
oh, and twitch, just delete this post if im not on track here.

<edit> ugh. i cringe at my own grammatical deficiencies. </edit>

[This message has been edited by bunchapixels (edited 04-28-2001).]

some of us *do* design for the sake of design.. things that are important to us.. so what makes your challenge so special?

"dont want to pit us against professionals". well i guess that all depends on what you consider "professional", cause ive been searching for web designers on the web via search engine, and i think ive only found 2 that i would consider "good".

you are just going to throw everyone in the same group? nothing to seperate tallents (photograph manipulation, server side scripting, dhtml/javascript, etc). of course, maybe you are just going to judge on "prettyness". *someone* is going to be disadvantaged if everyone is just lumped into one group.

------
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned

~sigh~

sasha, what is so compelling that you challenge everything that I do? It gets old.

Why am I not seperating the groups? Simply put, I need to gauge to see how many people want to be part of this. As it is, I think one lump group makes sense.

So whats special about this? A) there's prizes to be won and B) NO ONE ELSE IS DOING IT.

You're designing and populating the Net for it's own sake? I've *only* seen sites from you for commerce-driven sites. Okay. So that's design for the sake of design? You've make an effort to make sure that you never support CSS-2, so you're clearly not doing design for the sake of design, and you're constantly butting heads with me over idealogical differences in how the web should be treated.

I have no doubt that you care about the medium...though I have yet to see *any* proof of that.

Grrr.


s t e p h e n

*wanders on thru dragging moppage*......

ROFL @ Vp

Hey Doc - I *love* that site! I came across it about 3 months ago...been there off and on since! I wish I knew it was a friend of yours

I love ghias....especially bright green ones

No Vp, it's graphic minutiae III

That was *extremely* cheap but I couldn't resist.

Oh Twitch! You opened a can o' worms didn't ya I find this a great idea. Most of the 'challenges that come out of the asylum (no offense to anyone) don't get me too excited. Mainly because when all is said and done there's nothing to show for it (notice my lack of participation on wtf). This is great though, I've been needing a boot in the ass to put up a personal page, and this is it. In fact I've already started, watch out!

-D