Preserved Topic: That's so "gay"...

Alright, something you will encounter probably in the majority of the internet forums is the expression "gay" used as a negative term, e.g. "that's gay", "you're gay" and similar expressions. Now - why exactly is it that this word has degenerated in such a fashion?

I still remember that old tune of Kookaburra, whose life must be "gay". As a translation, I found "lively" or "nice" or something like that. Another meaning is - that's why I actually put up this posting - homosexuality, mostly used only for male homosexuality. I'm not homosexual, but if I was, I think I'd be pretty much pissed off. Why is it that already younger kids use this expression? Does it not conclude hatred against those who are different from the mass? I feel VERY uncomfortable when a 14-year-old tells me that this and that is "gay", without knowing anything about the things he says. Is there some kind of new homophobe people around?

What I find even more interesting is that you make this post.... yet you feel the need to say "I'm not homosexual...".

Now, I'm not straight, but I feel I should comment on this thread anyway...

When kids these days (god I feel old) use the term "gay" to describe something that is campy, or sappy, or something else like that, it's true that they may not be directly making a slur, but the premise is still the same. After all, what kind of a weirdo buys candles for someone? That's so gay.

Then again...I enjoy using "gaily forward" instead of "straight" when referring to direction, so I don't continue the abuse of my inferior heterosexual friends.

~cough~

Oooohhhh...I had a good experience today. The former Arch-Bishop of the Arch Diocease of Melbourne was bening interviewed on the radio, the government station run by the ABC, 774 3LO on the AM band. I was at that time being given a tour of the ABC studios, and I happened to go past the 3LO studio as the interview was being conducted. The first words I heard out of his mouth were 'All Homosexuals are sick and depraved, and this is a disease on society that we must cure though the use of tough, head on campaigns, like those currently being used on drugs'. This guy is a complete fuckhead, I hate him, he is so blindly prejudiced. Anyhoo, after going on like this for 15 mins, the interviewer tunred all of his arguments back on him, and made him look like the dickhead he is. He eventually said 'I don't have to sit here and take this...this interview is over', turned off his mike and stormed out, accompanied my the mocking laughter of me and the rest of the group I was with. We then saw him later, and laughed again, then later again, and still we laughed...ahh the fun of it.

I hate people who are prejudiced, who are afraid of things they don't understand.




In the beginning, there was the word...and the word was 'God', although by the time it reached the other end of the phone line... the word was 'Gznd'

Arr crap... I type out several pages and it get's eaten by yet another random browser error anyhow, in a very small nutshell.

Context!

Ok, I'm not completly straight myself and have many male and female gay and bi friends. We all use the word gay. Why? eh, simple. fewer syllables, well that and homo really does sound like an insult.



everybody needs a swamp bear

"gaily forward"



that sums up, as well as could be, what it is I love about twitch^

There are still people who can't stand the fact that gay no longer means "happy". Language evolves, it's not a problem, deal with it.

I agree with timothymcnulty that most kids probably aren't making a direct connection with homosexuality when using the word "gay".

Dracussis is 100% correct in pointing out context here. Take the word "nigger" as an example. It depends who says it, where they say it, and how they say it that makes it offensive.

And this whole gay/straight issue as far as I'm conerned suffers from the same ignorance as the evolution/creation issue. So many people assume it is one or the other, black or white. The fact is that human sexuality is extremely malleable. In as much as possible, I think our sexual preferences are best kept a private matter.

Taxon, I wanted to clarify it, not because I would see a bad thing in being homosexual - in fact, a good buddy of mine is homosexual. And I hug him, I go out with him, I party with him. Where's the point in discriminating people because of their sexual preference?
I had a homosexual experience when I was 16. I didn't find anything bad about it. Unfortunately (and I MEAN it like that), that was the last one. Looks like I'm (booooring.) completely straight. I was watching the CSD parades on TV and really enjoyed that. Especially when I hear about discriminination, I feel pretty much ashamed of our society.

Bug, I second your point. Sexual preference is a private matter. But it becomes more than that if somebody is discriminated because of it. Like in "look, you don't get the job, you're gay" - as if anybody would slam it into somebody's face like that, but I think you get the point. It happens in the mind of the people, it's a lurking discrimination.

I just have to add.......


whatever. (<-- isn't that gay?)

No, its queer.

People who use "gay" like that are all a bunch of slime-balls.

Oh, wait.

Personally, I can't stand fags and would never put one in my mouth. My dad did that for years and it wasn't pretty.

Ah, Bugimus seems to know that the original meaning of the word "faggot" was a burning piece of wood or more likely, a cigarette. I have no idea how this changed into the way it is used today. Really quite interesting.

In my opinion, most of the slurs and colloquial imprecations people say are a far cry from their original meanings. In fact, most people who use said imprecations grow up not knowing the meanings and just use the words in general terms.

I thought I would jump in on this. I hear kids...and some ppl who are not kids refer to things as, "gay." Most of the time I just ignore it...but sometimes I dont think I should have to. I am a gay male. I know it is me and my lifestyle that ppl are using as a casual slur. I have asked ppl why they say this. They always say its not said as something bad...Or they just say, "no offense" But it is offensive. Along with this you would actually be surprised how much heterophobia is going on in the gay community. I have even been known to refer to ppl as, "damn breeders"

Makes you think twice about the phrase, "damn straight."

-+CarltonCig+-

Is it really important to talk about 'labels'? Don't really like reducing PEOPLE to labels...I mean, we are all different, one way or another. Now, don't get me wrong, I 'know' how it is in reality, but really...I think people use 'labels' to somehow reduce these 'differences' to discuss 'those people are different, so that makes me uncomfortable' sort of thing. What I really dislike, are people who say 'my best friend is..., so I understand.' As part native american indian, I first learned about my people in school through the lens of the white man's history, it wasn't until much later that I learned the other sides of my people's history. And because I am a half-breed (another icky 'label'), I had the feeling of being both conquerer and conquered. I like the word people. Just people, no more, no less. Unfortunately, we are still using languages where gender is an issue, as well. Would love to have a word like 'hisser' or 'hermer' for his/her. As to sexual situated, I don't really care, as long as the people in question are consenting adults. What they do is their own affair. Don't agree with bugs, however (one of the seldom times I've disagreed with bugs) that it should be private. That just fuels such labels on, IMHO. At least when it's out in the open, people can't deny it, have to deal with it. And knowing is the first step to understanding, which can then lead to acceptance. Not that it always does. In my travels around the world, I was (and still am) confronted with new ideas, customs, etc, that bring my american upbringing into conflict. I would like to think that has influenced me to be more accepting of what is different. Just my thoughts...

mm, are we to go to a 'don't ask don't tell' policy?

webshaman - I really hate the 'my best friend is....' bit too....


I think far too much emphasis is placed on being 'colorblind' and trying to think that we're 'all the same'.

No. We're not.

Plain and simple, there are differences between blacks, whites, asians, greeks, iraqis, hetero/homosexuals......so why do we have to try to iron everything out into one big generic 'people'?

I'm people.....you're people.....but we're more than just people. we have specific things that differentiate us from eachother, and part of that is our race, gender, 'class', family background, sexual orientation, etc.

I just wanted to add on to my last post. What Bugs said about our sexuality being a private thing. If I were to keep it private I would not be able to speak of my partner. I would not be able to tell the ppl I work with the wonderful things I do on my days off with the person I love. I would still have to listen to them tell me about their husbands and wives. My partner is no less important to me than your wife. I have just as much right to talk about him and post pictures of him on my desk.

I think that anyone, gay or straight, keeping their sexuality a private matter is just another closet. And unless you have ever come out of one you dont know what it feels like to have ppl try and stuff you back in one.

-+CarltonCig+-

[This message has been edited by CarltonCig (edited 06-21-2001).]

Hmmm...I think maybe that come over wrong. I prefer the word people to 'labels'. And if someone really read my thread (like DL) then it's clear that I recognize that people are all different. I just don't support hammering the differences into 'labels'. Because then we are not really recognizing the differences, we are just being discriminatory. However, that probably also has something to do with the limitations of language. Just as was commented on by flik, some people don't really understand the connotations behind the 'label'. So maybe they don't really mean to be discriminatory (or even aware of it). That's food for thought...gotta think about it for awhile.

Hey DL,
Why did you put the word 'class' in quotes??

I'm people.....you're people.....but we're more than just people. we have specific things that differentiate us from eachother, and part of that is our race, gender, 'class', family background, sexual orientation, etc.


mobrul

yup - pretty much what timothy said.....and class as it existed 200 years ago doesn't really exist now.......it's not as predefined amd rigid........I'm using the term loosely......

heh

funny, funny shit here. Like there's a debate. We're all on the same page here, yes? Well, we can move on. I mean, I'm as proactive as the next queer, but let us all be honest for a moment--it doesn't fucking matter.

heh... Though it's nice to know there's at least one other queer running around here, swishing his hips and wearing cut-offs with suit jackets. hehe

....that's so gay

So what is the current slang term in the gay community that describes a gay that acts stereotypically gay? I mean there is "Rock Hudson" gay, "Liberace" gay, etc.


CarltonCig, let me just say that some of my best friends are... just kidding! I do my best to view and regard each person I come in contact with as just that, a person. That goes for everyone here.

My guess is that most of your acquaintences know you are gay, is that true? If so, discussing your weekend with them and how you spent it with your partner doesn't really get into sex acts does it? What I meant was that defining ourselves by how we get off makes no sense to me. We are human beings with all sorts of differences and what binds us together or separates us are values and ideas. That is where the real battleground exists. We all know that we are dancing around a very volatile societal topic here and it is only going to get bigger in the next few years without doubt.

It disgusts me that anyone in any community hold *hate* in their heart for any other person. That is *never* justified but I also know it is all too common.


WebShaman, if you're a "halfie" can I consider myself a "sixteenthie"? What tribe?

Flamers & queens are the ones that lisp, repeatedly break their wrists, and wear tight clothes. That's very important.

And queens are not necessarily gay.

Have any of you heard of male lesbians?

I was sitting here trying to think of something witty and yet profound to say on this subject. And I decided that I coudlnt do it. damn.

Yep Twitch^...Yer not the only fag wandering these halls. Im sure there are also more lurking.

heee...the current slang. Fag, Queen, Flamer, Nelly, Mary, Sister. Those ar all for the Femmes. For the mor masculine ones you have, Butch, Daddy.
Oh My........I am so not good at this.

Bugs: Yes. Where I work and pretty much everywhere I go I am out. Everyone knows me and my partner...together. I dont feel the need to hide the biggest , and the most important, part of my life. No...I dont go in to work and tell ppl sexual details. I find that rude....and I dont even like listening to straight ppl do that...and I have heard casual conversations about that. How ppl get off should be private. But I think that how ppl love is more important and deserves to be shared.

-+CarltonCig+-

[This message has been edited by CarltonCig (edited 06-22-2001).]

Eh.. Nuf said...

Well, Bugs, I'm Cherokee. Not officially recognized by the tribe, my grandfather did something to piss them off, don't know what, and my family was 'erased' from the tribal histories. My father is a drug addict, don't know much about him, don't know if he's still alive. Spend some time on the reservation, but because of my 'white' looks, was never really accepted. So do I know what it means to be discriminated against? Yes, and that from both sides. Not that I bitch and moan about it. It's just the way it is. I would suppose that many people are in the same situation as I am, one way or another. Just seems that there is not much that one hears about it. On the totem pole of racial discrimination, indians are sort of the 'forgotten' minority, I guess. So go figure.

he he he...

Try being a goth in sunny queensland... dam I was such a wanker... heh, what's changed ??

everybody needs a swamp bear

I was gonna say that 'being goth' was far different from the other things being discussed here, but then I realized that being goth *is* a form of mental retardation.......so I guess it does fall under the same category....