Preserved Topic: If the computer is but a tool then I must ask, how do you create? (Page 1 of 2)

If the computer is but a tool then I must ask, how do you create?

Well, it's true really. The computer is but a tool. It helps us output and refine out creative efforts. So in turn I've put forward the question of 'how do you create?'. I know this is an extremely broad question but I'm looking for broad and diverse answers.

Although I personally hate trying to answer rather broad and vague question like this so I'll give you some possibilites to focus on:

Describing your creative process or creative approach to a particular problem/progect you've once worked on.

What are the things you do in your day to day life that you believe enhance your creative abilities?

Do you think your a creative person, why or why don't you think this?

What's your definition of creativity?

Basicaly anything to do with creative processes and creativity in relation to bloody well anything really. Let loose, have fun and rant all you want. Pick up other peoples ideas and run with them. Tell us about those odd thoughts that tick over in your head....

I have no idea where my ideas come from. Yesterday I stepped in the door of my house got and idea, and started laughing like crazy. The process come from trying to output the ideas... and failing every time. It seems my imagination is not restrained, and it is where everything starts. So it is also hard to controll.

Interesting.

Although I think my ideas come from my experiences and my perception of life. If I was to do nothing and see nothing I would in turn, think nothing.

Failing to output the idea? Output it in what way? were you trying to define the the idea with words or imagery or were you simply trying to understand the idea?

Its like, I have ideas for majestic paintings... but I lack the ability to output them. I imagine that many people have this... "problem"

It stems from a lack of experience and skill... and some times from not having the correct tools for the job.

Although it is not a complete failing. I do get someting accomplished... Just not what I wanted.

Edit: Oh crap! I made a huge edit boo boo. I was doing a quick spelling check of my post below in word and when I went edit in the new text I posted over the wrong one!

Crap! Hah!

Oh well. I can't remember what exactly I was talking about here but if the post continues on long enough i'm sure it will come up again.

Edit yet again:

Oh yah, now I remember. I was talking about problem finding stuff.

[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 04-05-2002).]

Not sure were I get my ideas from. Once instance they are not there, then suddenly they are in my head. I always keep some kind of paper and pencil around to write it down, so I don't forget them. This might be why my schoolbooks look like they do - one page history, a couple of pages with other completely other stuff, some more history

I rarely start working on the computer without having an idea to work with. I have tried it, but most of the time it just doesn't work. My brain seem to work much better with creating ideas whit a pencil in my hand. Might be because it is much faster to sketch (sp?) down the idea on the paper then on a computer.


-= Veneficuz =-

"Faith: not wanting to know what is true. "- Friedrich Nietzsche

pack of smokes, a case of the finest Rolling Rock, the right mood, and viola.

I really don't know whree it comes from, it's the same as eyezaer's case. Someone will say something, and some other stuff will click into place, and Ideas will form, and I'll watch themn play themselves out in full motion 3D in my head. I then try my damdest to output them in the swame way, but usually what I output is not what I see in my head.

Yeah, I think one of the most frustrating things we all seem to come across is trying to get those gems out of our head and into some kind of physical form.

Skaarjj, you do a lot of 3D work yes? Have you ever looked into how other people 'work' with 3D. I'm not talking about how they use this or that 3D application, more how they approach actually 'creating' their visions and ideas.

Ideas are wonderful things but many of us seem to have a common problem when it comes giving birth to them. It might be because we simply lack the skill of drawing or painting or don't have the right tool for the job. Although, is that really true or is it merely an excuse we like to use?

We don't understand how these ideas come into being but that's not really an issue. Well, actually it kinda is because I believe you can do certain things to increase the quantity of ideas you get simply by living your life in different ways. Although that's another huge subject altogether which I might start ranting about later but for now I want to focus on the 'Quality' aspect of the idea.

The one thing I don't think we can do is increase the 'Quality' of that initial idea. Although, who's to say the most amazing ideas were concived out of the blue. Personally I find that concept hard to believe. I think the most amazing ideas are born from the development and research of previous ideas. Developing and researching ideas is something many people seem to do yet at the same time so many of us don't. If you have an idea for a nifty 3D short or a character maybe you should be asking yourself what makes that idea good. It doesn't really matter where it came from but if you don't understand why it's good or why you like it then how can you honestly expect to be able to express it?

I'm really liking where this is heading. Thanks for all the input so far. If you want to jump in with your own stories or theories then please do. Actually, I don't suppose anyone would like to tackle this question:

Do you think your a creative person, why or why don't you think this?

Actually, some of you might be wondering where I'm actually going with this or why I'm even asking these questions. I'm not trying to find where creativity comes from rather I'm looking at how it evolves and unfolds. How does someone turn an idea into reality? Are there better ways to do this? Can I improve the way I use my abstract thought processes? Can I train myself to be more creative?

Edit: Fixed some of the confusing bits and added a paragraph or two.

[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 04-05-2002).]

Hey, vogon, what do you do with the viola?

I guess I'm the stubborn type...the idea comes (where from? I don't really know...from inside, somewhere) and I can't let it go until I've gotten it out. When I still can't seem to get it out, then I take a break, and let my sub-conscious wrestle with it. Up till now, this has always worked...

I think creativity is different from inspiration...a lot of people here have inspired me. However, my 'creativity' is something that comes from inside. It has never failed me, at least not yet...

This is a great thread! indeed where do ideas come from, how do we harness the daily bombardments of influences and experiences, can we even make those little connect-the-dots, er, well... connect? Perhaps when we see something that touches us, and later have an amazing idea we remember, because of the greater significance, but for the most part, probably not... as in inspiration is everywhere... so much so that sometimes its overwhelming... (crickey! did that sound too whimpy?)

Creativity? ~ interesting. Do I regard myself as a creative person, yes. In what way... who can tell? I'd like to say in all and/or every but heck, I aint ballsy or talented enough to say that! ~ esp. round these parts!

And though I spend all day everyday to sit and a 'puter and do some work... I'm not sure who or what I am, if I am to be defined by my job, Scarrry thought that!

Also and this may be just me... but I had a fantastic time at Uni, discovering new equipment, new techniques, new everything and I think each time, whether working in-tandem or alone, there were ways to up-the-ante just a little, do the research and see how your own idea flowed along with what had been before - - comply / contradict.. there are many directions to go, even with a tried and tested theme?

But hhmmmmph! though those experiences should have stood me in good/solid ground the problem I find, is in the real world (which occassionally I glimpse through the cracks in my cell...heh heh!) People want to put u in a box with one label... photographer, designer, illustrator, artist, musician... whatever.... I fear I have no such label...

Perhaps its just that theres so much to do, learn, play, master(?) and so little time...

lol Wes ! the "Violia" is a by product, and as such of course I recycle it for next time

Hrrmmm. . . .I was taught a way to help the creative process in my Design I class. I?ll talk to the professor to see if I can get it again.

I get an idea for something I want to do then I start to think about it a lot. I lose sleep over it, get distracted by it, or sometimes I forget about it (unintentionally) and move on to the next idea. (That?s one reason I keep telling myself I need to keep an idea journal like a lot of you smart people and artists do.)

Once I?ve thought about something enough I may finally sit down to work on it. The first copy/idea always gets thrown away (kind of a little ritual I?ve developed, probably because I?m psycho. I almost feel that the first of anything I do isn?t good enough no matter how good it is.)

Once I?ve been working on something for a while the frustration period comes. I dislike everything I do, throw stuff away left and right, and cuss a lot. I?m not fun to be around when I?m like this.

Now once I get all the frustration out I take a break. I?ll go shoot some pool and have a pitcher of beer, watch TV, play video games, pick my nose, you know just about anything. I avoid my computers like they?re portals to hell.

Then I?m ready for those 4 or 5-hour sessions where I do nothing but work. (I used to be 10 to 12 hours but I have a job now so I had to cut back.) I?ve gotten over the feeling to dictate ever little detail and try to get things to conform to my preconceived idea of what it should look like.

Then once I?m finished working on it I normally still don?t like it and throw it away. Occasionally I like something enough to let it sit around for a few weeks before I throw it away. Rarely I like something enough to keep it for a few years before I throw it away. Maybe 1 out of every 150 things, I?ll actually keep.


Now if I?m doing something for someone other than myself. I do it to the best of my abilities, check the quality then finish it.

I also feel the way Kit does about being categorized. I'm a Jack-of-all-trades master of none I guess.



[This message has been edited by Osprey (edited 04-05-2002).]

"If the computer is but a tool then I must ask, how do you create?"

Through the soul.



www.scansped.co.uk

how do athesist artists create then Phil? or dont they count?

wow... You people can rant! haha! Nice!

Interesting... Do any other animals, bugs (not to be confused with Bugimus), what ever... create? Spiders build webs that are realy cool... but they dont say, HeY! Check out my latest Web! can I have a critique?


. . .

I usually try not to think about it too much.

Some days I feel creative, and some days I don't. And trying to force it is a really bad idea.

For example, in the sig competitions and repeat performance, if I get an idea or a thought when I first see the image or idea for a sig, I'll fire up photoshop and go at. If I don't really feel anything, then I'll just wait for the next iteration.

And I, too, get those ideas out of nowhere. That flash of inspiration comes out of nowhere and it's up to chance whether I remember it long enough to put it into solid form.

To cite a recent example, this weeks repeat performance was an outstretched hand on a blue background. When I first saw it, I didn't really have much in mind. Then I checked out a few of the excellent images posted by other Asylumites, and then I looked at the original again. It kinda looked like the hand was holding something, so I decided to create that ball in his hand.

That was the main idea. I didn't think of a glass ball at first because it's overdone and it looks cheesy if it's not done right. So, I went through a glowing green ball, a shiny metallic ball bearing, and I realized that the background distortion of the hand should give the glass enough character to convey something from the image. The rest is history...

Boxes! I like boxes.

In fact I quite often tape a label to my forehead and fold myself up inside a box.

After all, if we can't define ourselves then how can we know what we're doing? Well, we can't. Although I'm not saying that should find a label for you but in many ways I am. You need to explore things and experiment before you can find a label that suits you. When you find one you'll adopt it for a while then cast it off again when it's no longer needed.

We need these labels and boxes to remind ourselves of what were doing and why. Some people wear the same label all of their life, which sound a little boring to me but one of the most famous people in the world did this. That person was Einstein! Yup, he labelled himself so he knew exactly who he was and what he was doing. Then he focused on that and nothing else. You know he actually wore the exact same sweater and trousers every day! Many people say that's because he was a nut case but do you seriously think a man like that would stop to ponder over weather he should wear the green sweater or the blue button up shirt? I don't think so.

Hey look, now I'm contradicting myself. Einstein was obviously a very creative person but he only focused on one area. Although he knew nothing about art and I doubt he'd be able to design his way out of a wet paper bag. Previously I was talking about being more child like and questioning everything. Problem finding, experimenting and exploring your life. So what's the deal?

Well, everything's complicated. Although it's not as complicated as you may first think. Creativity takes basically two things before it can exist. Firstly it needs a domain or area to exist in. Weather this be artistic expression, science or computer programming. Then we need the human element. A person or group of people to act upon and within that area.

So the domain is basically where the boxes and labels help. Although finding that domain requires experimentation and exploration. Not all of us like the same size and colour boxes as each other. And then you can start to combine several different domains, which will obviously increase you creative outputs in a certain way. It's also very important that we explore and experiment within the domains themselves.

A lot of this is something we already do but I think it helps to define it. If we are aware of how some of this works we can try and fix the habits we may have that hinder this. Although this is not by far the extent of things we can do to try and increase our own creativity.

Actually, if you ever get the chance I'd suggest you read the book "Creativity: Flow & the psychology of discovering and invention" by Mihaly Ciskszentmihalyi (I just call him Mick). It's an amazing book and he puts forth some theories that really get your brain pumping. I picked it up at a library about a year and a half ago when I first became interested in understanding how the creative process works and I just couldn't put it down. I've read many books on the subject since but his was always the best and more focused on one's personal creativity. Oh, and the last chapter was so good I photocopied it before I took it back to the library. I still read over it every now and then.

The day after I read his book was also the day I started my sketchbooks.

There's some amazing stories and rants here though. Keep em coming

quote:

---

Originally posted by ~vp~

how do athesist artists create then Phil? or dont they count?

---

Wasn't thinking about the religeous kick ~vp~ (assuming that's what athesist means), more a case of what stirs the juices fueling the mood...........

Thinks..."Essex totty"

www.scansped.co.uk

lol "Essex totty" !!!! hehe, ~sigh~ now that brings back mammories! nuttin like Essex Totty to inspire one!

lol...kinda makes you homesick eh ~vp~....

I'm glad I found my way back here....missed the banter....

Current Inspiration....Bottle of good Red, 'n Clapton......"Layla" Live, now that's something else.....
Take care Bro......

Phil


www.scansped.co.uk

I'm thinking I have too much free time on my hands. Still, it's an interesting read:
http://hotwired.lycos.com/collections/web_development/4.09_csik_pr.html

Creativity comes from emptiness or stillness in the mind. It's that point that you experience between an inhale and an exhale that you find stillness and that is usually when creativity occurs. It's a matter of relaxing and being open, and clearing the mind of mental chatter (the monkey mind) so you can listen to what is truly important, the void within.

So, your saying that by thinking of nothing you will be able to generate an idea about something?

Hmm... Maybe it's just me but I'm finding it rather hard to justify your theory against the reality of my experiences.

I view ideas as the fruit of 'creativity'.

I think my ideas come from some unexplained correlation of cognition between the left and right sides of the brain. Thus drawing from abstract thought and my experiences in reality weather these be our theoretical understanding of mathematics or our social views on terrorism.

Yet one can wilfully explore the abstract therefore partake in stimulating and exercising the right (or is it the left) side of the brain. Or one can rationalise and partake in an understanding of theoretical material like mathematics and science through real world interaction be it studies or playing sport.

Considering this I believe that it is possible to enhance one's 'creativity' so to speak with practise, both in abstract thought and experience. Thus varying your view of the world and exploring it further or in different ways should effectively increase your ability to generate an idea about something.

Basicaly I believe that to be creative you first need something to be creative about. More than this, you need to know that something well in order to challenge it and view it in abstract ways. Only then can you start to draw upon thoughts with a fresh and unique perspective.

But that's just how I think it kinda works. Your all welcome to challenge this or add to it if you wish.

[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 04-08-2002).]

"Thus varying your view of the world and exploring it further or in different ways should effectively increase your ability to generate an idea about something."

You've got the idea. And in order to do so, you yourself would need to open your mind to a different way of interpreting what I am saying. To think of nothing is to think of something. To be still is to be nothing. For as soon as you do something you become that something that you are doing.

From emptiness comes substance, from substance comes emptiness. You must bend western thinking to understand what I am saying and attempt to see the idea of creativity in a holistic sense for a moment. If we were to say for instance that creativity was a product of linear thinking which americans are very fond of, then we could logically construct a method by which one could always generate creativity at any time they chose to as long as they followed a certain procedure or series of methods. Now, we both know that is not the case for if it were we would not be discussing anything in this thread in the first place.

So if we are to approach it from a non-linear perspective, that being one of holistic sense (yin & yang), we would realize that from nothingness comes creativity, and from creativity comes nothingness. This is why in art one is able to draw and have the feeling that the art is drawing itself. This is the same idea that great poets say that their finest works occured when the poetry just appeared upon the page.

Extreme yang is yin, extreme yin is yang. This is an eastern way of seeing things. In a descriptive sense this is difficult for westerners to understand, as it is saying extreme heat is cold, extreme joy is sadness, extreme health is sickness.

The reason this type of thinking is so difficult to make sense out of is because it is a matter of how one experiences the world (referring to the quote from your previous passage above) rather than how one intellectualizes about the world. It is based entirely upon the way one approaches life, and less upon the way a person linearly and analytically pieces it together. Hence, for someone to understand the idea that creativity comes from nothingness (and this is not thinking about nothing, but simply doing absolutely nothing) they must experience nothingness first hand, or in that sense become still, become nothing, let go of all that is something. Now, this may at first sound abstract, but if you take it seriously, think about what you do every night. When you sleep, you are doing absolutely nothing, and yet something comes from that nothing, "Dreams". And dreams are what many artists acclaim their creative processes to, and hence we replicate that nothingness state of mind while we are awake through doing nothing (meditation).

This should add some clarity the previous post, and perhaps arise some more questions and linear arguments.

Yah, I see what your saying. I saw it before too, but I still disagree.

"To think of nothing is to think of something"

No offence buddy but that statement is fundamentally flawed. I doubt there'd be a single person here that has ever conceived an idea about a website layout by actively not thinking about it. Simply because from a cognitive scientific point of view that's impossible. A neural correlation must be made in order for any thought, idea or otherwise to be related to that website.

I can however understand how this could seem to be true if you thought an idea just came out of 'nowhere' becuse you weren't paying enought attention to reality to realise where it came from. Yet in any event the whole 'zen' or meditation theory has proven to hinder most creative thought. Although throught a 'zen' like act one can preserve their mental energy and I did express this earlier when I was talking about Enstine wearing the same clothes evry day of his life. However it is more likely that by paying less attention to reality and not questioning it we will simply become mindless dones contempt to do nothing, think nothing and believe that this is indeed something.

From what I can tell your theory requires a certain amount of faith. Faith is something I invest sparingly so you'll have to convince me with fact.

I do understand the eastern philosophy behind the Yin & Yang concept but I don't see how it applies here. The only example you've given that almost supports it is your theory is about dreaming.

Well, suffice to say this has nothing to do with the 'Creative Processes'. Sure, they make good inspirations but dreams don't hand you ideas. You gain insight to an idea by thinking about it though. Effectively your dreams are nothing more than an experience yet they would be the one exception to an gaining an experience by doing nothing. Except your not actually doing nothing, your dreaming.

I also find your assumption about the 'western' views a little short-sighted. Creativity is a subject that many different cognitive scientists, phycologists and philosophers the world over have theorised about since the early 1900's I'm talking about people like Freud, Jung, Rank, Adler, Maslow, Fromm, Rossman, MakKinnon, Gough, Schimek, Barron, Getzles and Csikszentmihalyi.

Most of what I believe has come from researching Dr Csikszentmihalyi who has written a lot of material based on his research as a cognitive scientist in turn loosely based upon some of what he could gather about those who studied the field before. From what I can tell none of these people approached creativity from a purely linear perspective. I'm sure people have tried this before but chances are they just got laughed at. I?m not saying your wrong, but your assumption about how other people view creativity was.

PS... I'm really really tired so some of that might not make sence... Anyway I have a phyc assignment dure in 8 hours and it's still not finished!

Life indeed requires faith and so does creativity, that being faith in yourself and the process of life. Life is a combination of mind and body, you are too much mind. As I said in the before post, to understand it requires experience, and my comments come from experience whereas yours are intellectualized sophistry and rheteric based on the logical 'flaws' as you call it of the words that I am saying. My words are conveying experience which requires one to look beyond the surface to see clearly.

Of course it's ok if this sounds offensive and a means of deploring what you have previously said, as some people will never be able to embrace anything beyond their 'own way' in terms of their own personal creative processes. This is not to say that thinking things through and emptying oneself don't both play their part, my suggestion is to embrace the entire mind and all of its possibilities, rather than limitting yourself to a perception filter of a single way of thinking.

In one more way of fashioning the idea of what I am saying to a clear picture, you must imagine something that is already full. How can creativity enter a mind that is already full of ideas and thoughts and forms and shapes.

It is when you empty the mind, that the space or (void) for creativity to manifest. You don't need to take my word for it though, in fact you could follow exactly what I am saying, allow your mind to clear, experience this for yourself, and never report back to testify to it's effectiveness and that would still be alright as it is a matter of experience and not a matter of linear validation. Ten minutes of quieting the mind and watching the breath teaches an individual more about meditation then reading fifty books on the subject.

The main reason why people are unable to do so is their ego's fear of letting go, a fear that if they do they themselves will dissapear which you have conveyed in your comment ". However it is more likely that by paying less attention to reality and not questioning it we will simply become mindless dones contempt to do nothing, think nothing and believe that this is indeed something." This comment indicates that you perceive reality to be that which is going on inside of your mind, which is the exact opposite of what I am referring to.

I am more than open to applying your suggestions and comments into my creative processes, as I see yours means of inspiration worthwhile. It is clear to me that your intention is understanding this situation, but it is also apparent to me that through the means you are investing in understanding it you will only tire yourself out with analyzing and thinking through as you call it the source of creativity. Creativity comes from within, and it is not a linear process, it is an experienced process, and if you think that somehow a person is slipping from reality by embracing the process of obtaining nothingness then you talk out of ignorance and not of experience. It is obvious from your response that you have not given meditation or clearing the mind enough time or effort to have any personal credit as to it's effects on creativity. This is certainly not a 'my way is better than your way' ordeal, and you need to be clear with yourself not to view it that way. Instead it would be best viewed as alternative ways of accessing the same thing, that being, creativity.

In the end, it may have been more simple for me to have just said 'go meditate and find out for yourself.'

I just got an email from Microsoft. They say my creativity came with XP and I need to download the security patch or it could get hacked.

I got the same email, but someone told me that it was a joke. I still downloaded the patch though just to make sure. What would we do without Microsoft?

Arrr... now ya making sense .

I think I was getting hung up on the whole Yin & Yan "To see you must close your eyes"?.

I completely understand what your getting at though, clearing a cluttered mind and letting it wander in a 'dream-like' state. Yeah, that?s stuff's cool.

That's a variation of Freud?s psychoanalytical views of the process of Creativity. He was a big believer in the creative personal ability to access the unconscious mind. The other stuff I was talking about before was based on the humanist views perceiving Creativity as a balance of opposing personal characteristics like convergent and divergent thought, the ability to fantasise within the scope of reality, being an extrovert and an introvert at the same time. Basically all about balancing the opposites.

Interesting information about Frued. You appear to get the idea of it, words often make it difficult to communicate.

Look forward to sharing more on the other forums, this is my first day as an official member.

Nice to meet you!

Welcome Wuji, enjoy your stay. Very interesting points you have made...is that Zen?

Zen, Tao, God, just words to describe something that words cannot describe. It is however what one might call excerpts of taoist philosophy. Essentially it's non-dualistic thinking, ie. the type of thinking that the right hemisphere would accomplish, whereas it does not dillineate from right or wrong, here or there, better or worse - An example is when you draw you are drawing what you see, and there is no right or wrong about what you see, it is simply what you see.

Thanks for the welcome.

Oh, that's my philosophy, though it's strickly my own...I've always considered that nothing is really good or evil, positive or negative, that it is all just a perception of the same thing. Almost...Nieztche, if you ask me...

Almost. Except his fallacy in philosophy was it was all mental, as most of his writings on the 'Ultra Moral' and 'Super Human' way of living came from an old frail man in his deathbed. Go figure.

Who is God? Now that is a question I've asked myself for ages, and I'm still not so sure of the answer. I know that the Bible is mostly false and exaggerated, but I do believe that there is a presence that watches over us, whether it be a spirit or a life force or an alien in a UFO; it's the context that matters in the end.

"mostly false and exaggerated"?!? How closely have you looked at it to say that? Just curious.

Hmmm... the old "Eastern thinking" v. "Western thinking," eh? I don't want to get too deep into that right now, but I think saying that you have to look at something the "Eastern way" or that you have to discard "Western thinking" in order to understand something is imposing artificial limits on oneself. I was born in the States, but I have spent the past seven years in Korea. From what I have seen, a lot of the time "Eastern thinking" actually hampers the creative process. Granted, what I'm referring too is not the pure philosophy that Wuji is talking about, but even the monks here in Korea leave their temples and interact with the real world.

My personal take on the matter is that, rather than subscribing to one way of thinking, it is best to be open to all sorts of new possibilities. People who close their minds because they feel they have everything figured out only stagnate. Wuji, on the other hand, seems to be open to new ideas (as shown by the discussion that developed above), and I respect that. But I think we should be careful about defining reality in a certain way and then saying that someone will not be able to understand it because their basic way of thinking is different.

Eh, I'm starting to confuse myself . I think I'll stop now. Hopefully this makes some sort of sense.

Why is it always east vs. west? What happened to central american, south american, or north american philosophy on creativity? What about any other cultures we havn't talked about?

I really think the creative process is personal. I can't tell DocOzone (randomly picked individual who participates on this board) "your idea of the creative process is wrong." because DocOzone's creative process is obviously functional. Everyone is creative in some form or another. I think its important for me to try to understand my creativity, and I encourage others to do the same. I'm not going to try to dictate to someone what creativity is because if they have ever created anything they already know, but talking about creativity with someone is fun and enriching.