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DL-44 Maniac (V) Inmate From: under the bed Insane since: Feb 2000	posted 08-05-2004 18:41 So many different tangents here it's hard to pick where to start. As to your first post: as I said, t info on the subject of the term 'day' was vague - I will look into that further, and the info on the qualifiers for its use is helpful. No, I don't read the bible much at this point. Generally I will take the time to look up any references that are presented (whether in conversation, in a book, in a post, etc). quote: If you think so that is your idea, but there are many facts to prove other wise... Nope. There are many stories that attempt to portray things otherwise. Obviously, if you choose to say that the bible is 100% fact, that is your perogative. But you simply cannot use that as a legitimate argument to prove your point, because there is absolutely nothing you can offer that will back up that claim whatsoever. quote: Yes it would. The Earth was made in six days (you can read this in your Bible). God then said after it was done that it was very good. Lets look at that for a minute. If a loving, caring, God said that death, suffering, disease, thorns all came before the Curse, then we have a real problem. Then His holyness isn't what He said it was and Jesus died in vain. Another thing is that those things happened after the Curse. The Curse was initiated when Adam sinned. Then God separated the Earth from Him. That caused death, suffering, disease, thorns, etc. If that happened, then Jesus came to give atonment to a race that didn't need it. Plus, Adam, having brought sin into the world, needed atonement as much as we did. That is why God made the first sacrifice for him, and Jesus made the last sacrifice for us. I don't see what any of that has to do with what I said. Assume - for a moment - that Genesis is not at all accurate in any literal sense. Does this mean in any way that man did bring on this 'curse' by sinning? No. Of course not. Saying that the account is not a literal account does not have to change the basic message of the story. Therefore Jesus' death can still cary the full significance that you wish to attatch to it. quote: And, Genesis was not a story. It was a revelation of what happened to form the Earth by a Being that was there in the beginning. It is a Jewish history book part one of five in the Torah. It was adopted by the Christians, and later wrongly portrayed as a "story book". In your opinion. I don't judge the issue based on how it was portrayed by anyone. I judge it based on what I know of the early mythologies of many cultures, common sense, and other such things. As I said earlier, genesis also incorporates many bits from early Sumerian mythology. To me, mythology is mythology, be it hebrew, greek or norse. 'god' is Zeus as satan is to Loki as Jesus is to Gilgamesh, as Noah is to Merlin, etc etc etc quote: everything in this world is biased Yep. But some people allow that bias to determine everything for them. That is a bad thing.
White Hawk Paranoid (IV) Inmate From: out of nowhere... Insane since: May 2004	posted 08-06-2004 14:59 All written works telling of a history that we can neither prove nor disprove (regardless of their scientific legitimacy or religious orientation) are stories. How the **** can anybody claim that they are anything else. I could write an expose on our world leaders today, stating that they are all Martians. If in a thousand years, this is all that survives, I'm sure this too, might garner at least a little fanatical belief. Hell, for a species that lives so short a time, I'd think you might want to spend a little of that time questioning the blind faith that your ignorant and uneducated ancestors built for you upon the crushed bodies of non-believers. Deny your legacy of ignorance, rise up against the tyranny of controlled and centralised religion, tear from your eyes the blinkers of blind faith, look up to the sky and try for a moment to consider the universe without some human idea of a super-consciousness ruling everything, some rule of living that determines your eternal fate. Try, for just a moment, to think freely, unshackled by the dogma and the deluded ramblings of some long-dead cleric. Try, for just a moment, to be a sentient and independently conscious human being. I really don't understand you bipedal mammals at all. Primates are all a bit odd, if you ask me. I'm going back to flight - walking means being stuck with the fickle and self-obsessed human race - and that is just getting to be an annoyance now. (Edited by White Hawk on 08-06-2004 15:13)
Gideon Bipolar (III) Inmate From: rooted on planet Mars, I mean Earth Insane since: May 2004	posted 08-06-2004 18:45 White Hawk, that is an awsome speech. That is touching and very convincing. It would have made me do just that about 3 years ago. I did try that for about four years. To be independant and the like. Take a scientific route to everything. It seemed to work. But, everything was in a haze. I couldn't tell what was true and what wasn't. I had no sense of morals, no sense of history, and worse yet I was toying with ways to committ suicide. That all changed after I rededicated my life to Jesus. You ask why I follow a book that was written by men, and I tell you that it is because it is truth. There are so many evidences that prove it. I feel blessed to have been helped out by Jesus and put on the right track before something bad happened, like the end of the world (did you know that a lot of pastors and priests think that the world will end within this millenia?). He opened my eyes. When I asked for a truth or some knowledge, He gave it to me, at the perfect time too. It has been an incredible experience. Even though I haven't really been a Christian for long, I already know a bunch and feel better than I did in all the years I wasn't, put together. So, sorry WH, but that won't work on me. quote: DL-44 said: Nope. There are many stories that attempt to portray things otherwise. Obviously, if you choose to say that the bible is 100% fact, that is your perogative. But you simply cannot use that as a legitimate argument to prove your point, because there is absolutely nothing you can offer that will back up that claim whatsoever. Yes, and I do agree that since not all people and certainly non-Christians don't really believe that the Bible is all fact, there are other things as well. If you do detective work and work backwards saying that well, if this is true, and He said this, and this is then true, then you will eventually prove the whole Bible. But, getting off the subject of the Bible, there must be eyewitnesses to Jesus's miracles. There were Jews and even some Romans that were healed, fed, resurrected, etc. Statistically, there have to have been more records of His miracles than just in the Bible. If you really want I can go searching, but for times sake I really don't want too. Just agree with me that there had to have survived at least one account of one of these miracles. Then that would prove that Jesus was something special and worth looking into what He and His followers said. Then Paul said it best in 1 Corintians 15 quote: when he said that if Christ be not resurrected then our faith would be in vain. All of the martyrs would have died in vain. All of the people who have devoted their lives to Jesus would be in vain. The dead wouldn't rise and all would perish into eternal damnation. DL-44 said: I don't see what any of that has to do with what I said. [refering to quote about the Curse] It has everything to do with what you said or anyone said. Without Genesis, the whole basis of the death and resurrection of Jesus is in vain. Through Adam sin entered the world and through Jesus it left. Death is no longer an enemy. I spent some time in the ER last night and got an eye opener. To many people death is an enemy. Not to Christians. Because of Adam it was an enemy, but thanks to Jesus, I no longer fear death. I am actually excited about the prospect of finally seeing Him exalted in person. Wow, I can't wait. But, Adam and Eve had that already until Adam sinned. quote: DL-44 said: Assume - for a moment - that Genesis is not at all accurate in any literal sense. Ok, then in that case, God likes sin and death. He didn't need to send His son into the world to die for us. Sin has always been around and always will be. People really did evolve from monkeys, people have an inward desire to kill and sin rather than an outward one. Do you want me to keep going or is that enough? Without Genesis, the Bible is meaningless. Without Genesis, Jesus died in vain and pretty much all of what Christians believe in is false. . quote: DL-44 said: To me, mythology is mythology, be it hebrew, greek or norse. 'god' is Zeus as satan is to Loki as Jesus is to Gilgamesh, as Noah is to Merlin, etc etc etc You need to read an article about Christianity. I don't want to plagerize, and I don't yet know how to link sites to here, so go back to answers in genesis, and click on Bible. Then click on the third one down. Some of it is hard to chew if you don't believe in literal Genesis, but the main idea of the article is what I want you to read, so if you can try to wade through it. Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.
Gideon Bipolar (III) Inmate From: rooted on planet Mars, I mean Earth Insane since: May 2004	posted 08-06-2004 18:45 White Hawk, that is an awsome speech. That is touching and very convincing. It would have made me do just that about 3 years ago. I did try that for about four years. To be independant and the like. Take a scientific route to everything. It seemed to work. But, everything was in a haze. I couldn't tell what was true and what wasn't. I had no sense of morals, no sense of history, and worse yet I was toying with ways to committ suicide. That all changed after I rededicated my life to Jesus. You ask why I follow a book that was written by men, and I tell you that it is because it is truth. There are so many evidences that prove it. I feel blessed to have been helped out by Jesus and put on the right track before something bad happened, like the end of the world (did you know that a lot of pastors and priests think that the world will end within this millenia?). He opened my eyes. When I asked for a truth or some knowledge, He gave it to me, at the perfect time too. It has been an incredible experience. Even though I haven't really been a Christian for long, I already know a bunch and feel better than I did in all the years I wasn't, put together. So, sorry WH, but that won't work on me. quote: DL-44 said: Nope. There are many stories that attempt to portray things otherwise. Obviously, if you choose to say that the bible is 100% fact, that is your perogative. But you simply cannot use that as a legitimate argument to prove your point, because there is absolutely nothing you can offer that will back up that claim whatsoever. Yes, and I do agree that since not all people and certainly non-Christians don't really believe that the Bible is all fact, there are other things as well. If you do detective work and work backwards saying that well, if this is true, and He said this, and this is then true, then you will eventually prove the whole Bible. But, getting off the subject of the Bible, there must be eyewitnesses to Jesus's miracles. There were Jews and even some Romans that were healed, fed, resurrected, etc. Statistically, there have to have been more records of His miracles than just in the Bible. If you really want I can go searching, but for times sake I really don't want too. Just agree with me that there had to have survived at least one account of one of these miracles. Then that would prove that Jesus was something special and worth looking into what He and His followers said. Then Paul said it best in 1 Corintians 15 quote: when he said that if Christ be not resurrected then our faith would be in vain. All of the martyrs would have died in vain. All of the people who have devoted their lives to Jesus would be in vain. The dead wouldn't rise and all would perish into eternal damnation. DL-44 said: I don't see what any of that has to do with what I said. [refering to quote about the Curse] It has everything to do with what you said or anyone said. Without Genesis, the whole basis of the death and resurrection of Jesus is in vain. Through Adam sin entered the world and through Jesus it left. Death is no longer an enemy. I spent some time in the ER last night and got an eye opener. To many people death is an enemy. Not to Christians. Because of Adam it was an enemy, but thanks to Jesus, I no longer fear death. I am actually excited about the prospect of finally seeing Him exalted in person. Wow, I can't wait. But, Adam and Eve had that already until Adam sinned. quote: DL-44 said: Assume - for a moment - that Genesis is not at all accurate in any literal sense. Ok, then in that case, God likes sin and death. He didn't need to send His son into the world to die for us. Sin has always been around and always will be. People really did evolve from monkeys, people have an inward desire to kill and sin rather than an outward one. Do you want me to keep going or is that enough? Without Genesis, the Bible is meaningless. Without Genesis, Jesus died in vain and pretty much all of what Christians believe in is false. . quote: DL-44 said: To me, mythology is mythology, be it hebrew, greek or norse. 'god' is Zeus as satan is to Loki as Jesus is to Gilgamesh, as Noah is to Merlin, etc etc etc You need to read an article about Christianity. I don't want to plagerize, and I don't yet know how to link sites to here, so go back to answers in genesis, and click on Bible. Then click on the third one down. Some of it is hard to chew if you don't believe in literal Genesis, but the main idea of the article is what I want you to read, so if you can try to wade through it. Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.
Gideon Bipolar (III) Inmate From: rooted on planet Mars, I mean Earth Insane since: May 2004	posted 08-06-2004 18:46 White Hawk, that is an awsome speech. That is touching and very convincing. It would have made me do just that about 3 years ago. I did try that for about four years. To be independant and the like. Take a scientific route to everything. It seemed to work. But, everything was in a haze. I couldn't tell what was true and what wasn't. I had no sense of morals, no sense of history, and worse yet I was toying with ways to committ suicide. That all changed after I rededicated my life to Jesus. You ask why I follow a book that was written by men, and I tell you that it is because it is truth. There are so many evidences that prove it. I feel blessed to have been helped out by Jesus and put on the right track before something bad happened, like the end of the world (did you know that a lot of pastors and priests think that the world will end within this millenia?). He opened my eyes. When I asked for a truth or some knowledge, He gave it to me, at the perfect time too. It has been an incredible experience. Even though I haven't really been a Christian for long, I already know a bunch and feel better than I did in all the years I wasn't, put together. So, sorry WH, but that won't work on me. quote: DL-44 said: Nope. There are many stories that attempt to portray things otherwise. Obviously, if you choose to say that the bible is 100% fact, that is your perogative. But you simply cannot use that as a legitimate argument to prove your point, because there is absolutely nothing you can offer that will back up that claim whatsoever. Yes, and I do agree that since not all people and certainly non-Christians don't really believe that the Bible is all fact, there are other things as well. If you do detective work and work backwards saying that well, if this is true, and He said this, and this is then true, then you will eventually prove the whole Bible. But, getting off the subject of the Bible, there must be eyewitnesses to Jesus's miracles. There were Jews and even some Romans that were healed, fed, resurrected, etc. Statistically, there have to have been more records of His miracles than just in the Bible. If you really want I can go searching, but for times sake I really don't want too. Just agree with me that there had to have survived at least one account of one of these miracles. Then that would prove that Jesus was something special and worth looking into what He and His followers said. Then Paul said it best in 1 Corintians 15 quote: when he said that if Christ be not resurrected then our faith would be in vain. All of the martyrs would have died in vain. All of the people who have devoted their lives to Jesus would be in vain. The dead wouldn't rise and all would perish into eternal damnation. DL-44 said: I don't see what any of that has to do with what I said. [refering to quote about the Curse] It has everything to do with what you said or anyone said. Without Genesis, the whole basis of the death and resurrection of Jesus is in vain. Through Adam sin entered the world and through Jesus it left. Death is no longer an enemy. I spent some time in the ER last night and got an eye opener. To many people death is an enemy. Not to Christians. Because of Adam it was an enemy, but thanks to Jesus, I no longer fear death. I am actually excited about the prospect of finally seeing Him exalted in person. Wow, I can't wait. But, Adam and Eve had that already until Adam sinned. quote: DL-44 said: Assume - for a moment - that Genesis is not at all accurate in any literal sense. Ok, then in that case, God likes sin and death. He didn't need to send His son into the world to die for us. Sin has always been around and always will be. People really did evolve from monkeys, people have an inward desire to kill and sin rather than an outward one. Do you want me to keep going or is that enough? Without Genesis, the Bible is meaningless. Without Genesis, Jesus died in vain and pretty much all of what Christians believe in is false. . quote: DL-44 said: To me, mythology is mythology, be it hebrew, greek or norse. 'god' is Zeus as satan is to Loki as Jesus is to Gilgamesh, as Noah is to Merlin, etc etc etc You need to read an article about Christianity. I don't want to plagerize, and I don't yet know how to link sites to here, so go back to answers in genesis, and click on Bible. Then click on the third one down. Some of it is hard to chew if you don't believe in literal Genesis, but the main idea of the article is what I want you to read, so if you can try to wade through it. Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.
White Hawk Paranoid (IV) Inmate From: out of nowhere... Insane since: May 2004	posted 08-06-2004 21:48 Hi Gideon, As regards your reply, especially: quote: Even though I haven't really been a Christian for long, I already know a bunch and feel better than I did in all the years I wasn't, put together. So, sorry WH, but that won't work on me. No need to be sorry for a second. If your life is better for it, you have done what you should do (especially if it had previously failed to deliver). The path you choose is yours to follow, and I am happy that you find self-esteem and contentment. You have my respect and good will. I must admit that my little monologues tend to miss the point, and rather fulfill a creative moment than state my exact opinion. I was having a bit of a rough day (hot office, drudgery, and a constantly ringing phone) and just needed to zone-out for a few minutes. I'm glad that the positive context was noticed, though! I wish I had the time to read the rest of your post - sorry.
tntcheats Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate From: BC, Canada Insane since: Jun 2004	posted 08-06-2004 22:05 quote: I had no sense of morals, no sense of history, and worse yet I was toying with ways to committ suicide. Toying with ways to commit suicide? No offense, but believing in science rather than religion didn't cause you to toy with ways to commit suicide. Suicide's a very selfish thing to do, too. One of the most selfish thing to do, actually--though I suppose killing someone else to achieve your goals (especially a kid or something of the sort) is more selfish.. (cough cough thiests) And morals shouldn't be taught through religion, they should be taught through your parents, school, and life experiences. quote: Jesus died in vain and pretty much all of what Christians believe in is false. I believe in everything said above, except the "pretty much" part. quote: it is truth. There are so many evidences that prove it. There are many more evidences that disprove it. quote: (did you know that a lot of pastors and priests think that the world will end within this millenia?) Did you know that they think that it's going to end consistently? They just come up with new random dates and the such, and it always DOESN'T happen. Remember the year 2000? Then they said "oh my no, it's the year 2001 it'll end" then it STILL DIDN'T happen? quote: He opened my eyes. Or closed them. quote: Yes, and I do agree that since not all people and certainly non-Christians don't really believe that the Bible is all fact, there are other things as well. If you do detective work and work backwards saying that well, if this is true, and He said this, and this is then true, then you will eventually prove the whole Bible. But, getting off the subject of the Bible, there must be eyewitnesses to Jesus's miracles. There were Jews and even some Romans that were healed, fed, resurrected, etc. Statistically, there have to have been more records of His miracles than just in the Bible. If you really want I can go searching, but for times sake I really don't want too. Just agree with me that there had to have survived at least one account of one of these miracles. Then that would prove that Jesus was something special and worth looking into what He and His followers said. Then Paul said it best in 1 Corintians 15 The Hobbit is still around, and will probably be around for quite the while longer. However, I don't say that just because this thing and other places, such as other books (i.e. Lord of The Rings) Bilbo saved Rivendale from a fierce fire-breathing dragon. quote: Through Adam sin entered the world and through Jesus it left. What the fuck are you talking about? "Sin" still exists. Thou shalt not steal? There are over 35,840 motor vehicle thefts alone in New York City, New York. (I believe that's per year) quote: Death is no longer an enemy. I spent some time in the ER last night and got an eye opener. To many people death is an enemy. Not to Christians. Because of Adam it was an enemy, but thanks to Jesus, I no longer fear death. I am actually excited about the prospect of finally seeing Him exalted in person. Wow, I can't wait. But, Adam and Eve had that already until Adam sinned. Not wanting to die is a good thing. It makes us NOT die, in many cases. You can't wait to die? You sure your not still suicidal? quote: Sin has always been around and always will be. People really did evolve from monkeys Yep. I agree that you can't be religious and believe in evolution--god made us in his image? God's a big monkey? random fact Dinosaurs were warm blooded and are more like birds than lizards. They can't be cold blooded because most cold blooded creatures don't stand upright and aren't able to be found where the weather was cold, which dinosaurs were. They're more like birds than lizards because of their bone structure, and several other large reasons. One of them being that their cells had nuclei. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Dawn is nature's way of telling you to stop using that stupid quote." - me.
DL-44 Maniac (V) Inmate From: under the bed Insane since: Feb 2000	posted 08-07-2004 04:35 Gideon - are you referring to "Holy books? Which one are you going to trust?" ? If so.... Or hell....even if not.... I will say again - that site is absolute pure ignorance. It is 100% based upon the methodology of "the bible says 'this' so, let's change everything to fit 'this' instead of lookig at fact". There's no point in continuing a discussion if such a resource will be your basis for argument. My views can be readily found with a simple search or two here - the topic of religion has come up many many times, and I have often been involved. One thing I would like to try to clear up though - you seem to have a problem understanding my use of the term literal (as opposed to metaphorical) and what exactly I am saying when relating such things as genesis as a metaphorical illustration. Let's go back to imagining that genesis is a metaphor and not a literal representation (hold on - don't comment yet....). Now, when I say that genesis is not accurate in a literal sense, you take that to mean that the end result is therefore not true. This need not be the case. In fact, that's the whole point. The fact that genesis is a story with a message does not change the fact that mankind brought ruin onto himself by comitting sin. Adam not actually being tempted by eve to eat an apple does not in anyway negate the idea that god created things perfect, and liked things that way, but that man ruined it all. It leaves plenty of room for that to still be the case in other more realistic ways. Again - read any early works of the creation kind - they are filled with things that are quite obviously metaphor and myth. Any objective look at the bible must reveal the same. But, it doesn't change the meaning of the stories. Just as Jesus used parable to illsutrate his message, so did the authors of genesis. And I can't see any possible conflict. Then again I am in complete awe at the total and voracious ignorance of the authors of the articles I have read at 'aig'.
Gideon Bipolar (III) Inmate From: rooted on planet Mars, I mean Earth Insane since: May 2004	posted 08-07-2004 22:35 First off, I am so sorry about the triple post. My comp was going on the fritz. WH, it's okay. And by the way that was an awesome rhetoric, especially since it was a bad day. DL, I'll respond to your post first. Um, yeah, I will agree that a lot of those articles are biased. Like the dino expedition at the beginning of this thread. I did shake my head at that one. I think that people like that are more harmful than actually doing good. But, who am I to really say? Anyway, enough of my ravings, back to your question. You said that you saw the philosophy "Bible says this, lets change the facts to fit"? I must admit that I have not explored much of that site yet, just to pick up the loose threads after Ken Ham's sermon. So, in the regards of the web site, I don't know how much tweaking they do. The thing is, that I know for a fact that Ken Ham doesn't change the facts. Those are real facts about the world that he uses. Then, he uses them to answer questions about certain things in the Bible. quote: DL-44 said: (hold on - don't comment yet....) ok I do get what you are saying here. It does make sense too. The only problem is that Jesus quoted the scriptures in Genesis, and believed that they were literal. If those are not literal, He would know (He was there before Abram, He knows). That is why those must be taken literally. If, for instance, the Torah was just that, stories, then many things would happen (and those 5 books are taken together). The history of the Jewish nation would not be there. Those five books are a collection of historical documents and laws. If they were just stories then the end result would be that The Father and The Son would be just what they were preaching against, liars. I know that is pushing it a little, but it is true. As for TnT: quote: tntcheats said: No offense, but believing in science rather than religion didn't cause you to toy with ways to commit suicide. None taken (and looking back, I do realize how deep I was in and the saying when threre is life there is still hope does come to mind now. I feel bad about those feelings now too), but, no offense, it was exactly what caused me to want to commit suicide. Science only theorizes what happened, why this happened, how this happened, etc. It never explained why I am here. Why I should stay alive. I will die someday anyway, and those that were sad will eventually get over it and die themselves, so I was asking myself what the point was. That is where Jesus came in. I still believe facts, and am still an amatuer scientist (very amatuer), but now that Jesus is there things make more sense than they did. It was like there was a veil over my eyes and it dropped when I asked for Jesus's help. quote: tntcheats said: And morals shouldn't be taught through religion, they should be taught through your parents, school, and life experiences. And if that could work that would be great. The only problem is that there are inconsitancies in different people's morals. Some may think that killing a child is bad, but others may think it a divine thing to sacrifice one to a god (Baal, if you aren't familiar with it). Some think that canibalizim is good, while others don't eat any meat. There is such a wide range of values and morals that it causes problems in countries like America. quote: tntcheats said: There are many more evidences that disprove it. If you would be so kind I would like to hear some of them. quote: tntcheats said: Did you know that they think that it's going to end consistently?They just come up with new random dates and the such, and it always DOESN'T happen. Remember the year 2000? Then they said "oh my no, it's the year 2001 it'll end" then it STILL DIDN'T happen? Yeah, that kinda gets on my nerves. I am so tired of people trying to put a date on something, or saying that this proves that we are close or far off. My thinking is that if God wanted us to know the day, He would have told us the time, day, month, year. It says time and again in the sriptures that He (Jesus) will come like a thief in the night. No one can predict what day He will be coming. quote: tntcheats said: Or closed them He showed me many new things, and helped me to see other's point of veiw. Not nececcarily agree with them, but see them. He has given me an incredible empathic imagination. It is a blessing and a curse. But, anyway, I now see more, and can discern what is what. You may not know it but I'm not one of those people who go around saying how bad others are because they aren't saved, because they don't have Jesus walking beside them. I can't do that because I myself am a sinner, and I don't hinder others because of my faith. My eyes aren't closed, they are more opened than they have ever been to pain, suffering, joy, and peace. I praise God every day for what He has done in my life. But, in the book Proverbs it says that wisdom begins with the fear of The Lord, I don't know what kind of wisdom it is, but I am starting to get it. quote: tntcheats said: What the [***] are you talking about?"Sin" still exists. Thou shalt not steal? There are over 35,840 motor vehicle thefts alone in New York City, New York. (I believe that's per year) Yeah, I know. That was the main problem many Jewish families had, the immediate* satisfaction was what they were after. The overhrowing of the Romans, and a new Israelite empire. They wanted action, not promises. The thing is that we can't see the action taking place. Calvary was just the tip of the ice burg. He did so many things that weren't revealed to us until revelations or the apostles were shown them. Yes, there is sin still in the world but, Jesus cleaned the inside, not the outside (yet). In revelations we are told about how He will come back and erradicate sin, death, and suffering for a thousand years on Earth, then the dragon will be let out again for a season and then there will be a perfect harmony. quote: tntcheats said: You can't wait to die? You sure your not still suicidal? Yeah, I'm positive. It will be bitter sweet the day that I die/am taken up to Heaven (don't know what day that might be tomorrow maybe?). I will be leaving loved ones, that is the sad part, but I will go to see Jesus and live for ever in His love and glory. That is why I am not afraid of death. That is why I kinda can't wait. That day will be so awesome. I just hope I get to share it with my loved ones too. Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.
Gideon Bipolar (III) Inmate From: rooted on planet Mars, I mean Earth Insane since: May 2004	posted 08-09-2004 07:08 Another thing about your random fact, dinos couldn't have turned into bird. That is a scientific imposibility. The reptilian gene code just doesn't have the right coding for the developement of feathers. It would be like going from a dog to a fish. It is impossible. There are scientists who have claimed to have grown scales on chicken, and have seen scales on chicken in the wild (mutations), but there have been no reptiles with feathers. That is a known fact. Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.
Skaarjj Maniac (V) Mad Scientist From: :morF Insane since: May 2000	posted 08-09-2004 12:31 330 posts in theo ne thread...I think this offically makes an asylum record.
White Hawk Paranoid (IV) Inmate From: out of nowhere... Insane since: May 2004	posted 08-09-2004 18:09 Dinosaurs didn't turn into birds, for goodness sake - they were simply more like them than reptiles. The name itself is a misnomer, "terrible lizard", as TNTCheats pointed out. you see, they were capable of regulating their own body temperature, so they were warm-blooded (unlike reptiles, as they are unable to regulate theirs, hence the term 'cold blooded'). They also possessed skeletons which were light and hollow, just like a birds- and with good reason too; as birds require the lighter skeleton to achieve flight, the dinosaurs required light bones to achieve such great sizes. Let's face it, you are hardly going to be able to kick start an entire planet's terraformation with a bunch of tiny lizards with voracious appetites, are you? T'is much more effective to lay the foundations with the JCBs of the animal world before retiring them (eventually) in time for the rest of the eco-systems to be fully developed. Birds, collectively, are among the oldest of the species on this planet - they have changed a lot, mind you, but they are closer to their long-dead cousins than most. In fact, early birds actually had teeth until they were ditched in the name of weight-reduction... (Edited by White Hawk on 08-09-2004 18:12)
Gideon Bipolar (III) Inmate From: rooted on planet Mars, I mean Earth Insane since: May 2004	posted 08-09-2004 21:45 I know that dinos didn't turn into birds, that is nonsense. There are just some incorrect theories of the evolution of dinos into birds, and that is what I was trying to prove (not my best but...). That is true that there are a lot of similarities between birds and dinos, I find that amazing. Yeah, and I will agree that from a Christian standpoint (though many may oppose this, I will say it anyway) birds and fish (aside from plants) are the longest living organisms. I didn't know that they had teeth too! That is very interesting. I need to look at some of these fossils. And, that is cool about the 330. Hmm, people must be passionate about this subject (or forget what they said earlier) Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

Preserved Topic: Dinosaur Adventure Land! (or, how the Creationists explain the Dinosaurs) (Page 9 of 9) $Pages that link to <a href="https://ozoneasylum.com/backlink?for=21769" title="Pages that link to Preserved Topic: Dinosaur Adventure Land! (or, how the Creationists explain the Dinosaurs) (Page 9 of 9)" rel="nofollow" >Preserved Topic: Dinosaur Adventure Land! (or, how the Creationists explain the Dinosaurs) <span class="small">(Page 9 of 9)</span>\$

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted 08-05-2004 18:41

So many different tangents here it's hard to pick where to start.

As to your first post: as I said, t info on the subject of the term 'day' was vague - I will look into that further, and the info on the qualifiers for its use is helpful.

No, I don't read the bible much at this point. Generally I will take the time to look up any references that are presented (whether in conversation, in a book, in a post, etc).

quote:
If you think so that is your idea, but there are many facts to prove other wise...

Nope. There are many stories that attempt to portray things otherwise. Obviously, if you choose to say that the bible is 100% fact, that is your perogative. But you simply cannot use that as a legitimate argument to prove your point, because there is absolutely nothing you can offer that will back up that claim whatsoever.

quote:
Yes it would. The Earth was made in six days (you can read this in your Bible).
God then said after it was done that it was very good. Lets look at that for a minute. If a loving, caring, God said that death, suffering, disease, thorns all came before the Curse, then we have a real problem. Then His holyness isn't what He said it was and Jesus died in vain.
Another thing is that those things happened after the Curse. The Curse was initiated when Adam sinned. Then God separated the Earth from Him. That caused death, suffering, disease, thorns, etc. If that happened, then Jesus came to give atonment to a race that didn't need it. Plus, Adam, having brought sin into the world, needed atonement as much as we did. That is why God made the first sacrifice for him, and Jesus made the last sacrifice for us.

I don't see what any of that has to do with what I said.

Assume - for a moment - that Genesis is not at all accurate in any literal sense.

Does this mean in any way that man did bring on this 'curse' by sinning? No. Of course not. Saying that the account is not a literal account does not have to change the basic message of the story.

Therefore Jesus' death can still cary the full significance that you wish to attatch to it.

quote:
And, Genesis was not a story. It was a revelation of what happened to form the Earth by a Being that was there in the beginning. It is a Jewish history book part one of five in the Torah. It was adopted by the Christians, and later wrongly portrayed as a "story book".

In your opinion.

I don't judge the issue based on how it was portrayed by anyone. I judge it based on what I know of the early mythologies of many cultures, common sense, and other such things.

As I said earlier, genesis also incorporates many bits from early Sumerian mythology.

To me, mythology is mythology, be it hebrew, greek or norse. 'god' is Zeus as satan is to Loki as Jesus is to Gilgamesh, as Noah is to Merlin, etc etc etc

quote:
everything in this world is biased

Yep.
But some people allow that bias to determine everything for them. That is a bad thing.

White Hawk
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: out of nowhere...
Insane since: May 2004

posted 08-06-2004 14:59

All written works telling of a history that we can neither prove nor disprove (regardless of their scientific legitimacy or religious orientation) are stories.

How the **** can anybody claim that they are anything else. I could write an expose on our world leaders today, stating that they are all Martians. If in a thousand years, this is all that survives, I'm sure this too, might garner at least a little fanatical belief.

Hell, for a species that lives so short a time, I'd think you might want to spend a little of that time questioning the blind faith that your ignorant and uneducated ancestors built for you upon the crushed bodies of non-believers.

Deny your legacy of ignorance, rise up against the tyranny of controlled and centralised religion, tear from your eyes the blinkers of blind faith, look up to the sky and try for a moment to consider the universe without some human idea of a super-consciousness ruling everything, some rule of living that determines your eternal fate. Try, for just a moment, to think freely, unshackled by the dogma and the deluded ramblings of some long-dead cleric.

Try, for just a moment, to be a sentient and independently conscious human being.

I really don't understand you bipedal mammals at all. Primates are all a bit odd, if you ask me. I'm going back to flight - walking means being stuck with the fickle and self-obsessed human race - and that is just getting to be an annoyance now.

(Edited by White Hawk on 08-06-2004 15:13)

Gideon
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: rooted on planet Mars, *I mean Earth*
Insane since: May 2004

posted 08-06-2004 18:45

White Hawk, that is an awsome speech. That is touching and very convincing. It would have made me do just that about 3 years ago. I did try that for about four years. To be independant and the like. Take a scientific route to everything. It seemed to work. But, everything was in a haze. I couldn't tell what was true and what wasn't. I had no sense of morals, no sense of history, and worse yet I was toying with ways to committ suicide. That all changed after I rededicated my life to Jesus. You ask why I follow a book that was written by men, and I tell you that it is because it is truth. There are so many evidences that prove it. I feel blessed to have been helped out by Jesus and put on the right track before something bad happened, like the end of the world (did you know that a lot of pastors and priests think that the world will end within this millenia?). He opened my eyes. When I asked for a truth or some knowledge, He gave it to me, at the perfect time too. It has been an incredible experience. Even though I haven't really been a Christian for long, I already know a bunch and feel better than I did in all the years I wasn't, put together. So, sorry WH, but that won't work on me.

quote:
DL-44 said:

Nope. There are many stories that attempt to portray things otherwise.
Obviously, if you choose to say that the bible is 100% fact, that is your
perogative. But you simply cannot use that as a legitimate argument to prove
your point, because there is absolutely nothing you can offer that will back up
that claim whatsoever.

Yes, and I do agree that since not all people and certainly non-Christians don't really believe that the Bible is all fact, there are other things as well. If you do detective work and work backwards saying that well, if this is true, and He said this, and this is then true, then you will eventually prove the whole Bible. But, getting off the subject of the Bible, there must be eyewitnesses to Jesus's miracles. There were Jews and even some Romans that were healed, fed, resurrected, etc. Statistically, there have to have been more records of His miracles than just in the Bible. If you really want I can go searching, but for times sake I really don't want too. Just agree with me that there had to have survived at least one account of one of these miracles. Then that would prove that Jesus was something special and worth looking into what He and His followers said. Then Paul said it best in 1 Corintians 15

quote:
when he said that if Christ be not resurrected then our faith would be in vain. All of the martyrs would have died in vain. All of the people who have devoted their lives to Jesus would be in vain. The dead wouldn't rise and all would perish into eternal damnation.
DL-44 said:

I don't see what any of that has to do with what I said. [refering to quote about the Curse]

It has everything to do with what you said or anyone said. Without Genesis, the whole basis of the death and resurrection of Jesus is in vain. Through Adam sin entered the world and through Jesus it left. Death is no longer an enemy. I spent some time in the ER last night and got an eye opener. To many people death is an enemy. Not to Christians. Because of Adam it was an enemy, but thanks to Jesus, I no longer fear death. I am actually excited about the prospect of finally seeing Him exalted in person. Wow, I can't wait. But, Adam and Eve had that already until Adam sinned.

quote:
DL-44 said:

Assume - for a moment - that Genesis is not at all accurate in any literal
sense.

Ok, then in that case, God likes sin and death. He didn't need to send His son into the world to die for us. Sin has always been around and always will be. People really did evolve from monkeys, people have an inward desire to kill and sin rather than an outward one. Do you want me to keep going or is that enough? Without Genesis, the Bible is meaningless. Without Genesis, Jesus died in vain and pretty much all of what Christians believe in is false.
.

quote:
DL-44 said:

To me, mythology is mythology, be it hebrew, greek or norse. 'god' is Zeus as
satan is to Loki as Jesus is to Gilgamesh, as Noah is to Merlin, etc etc etc

You need to read an article about Christianity. I don't want to plagerize, and I don't yet know how to link sites to here, so go back to answers in genesis, and click on Bible. Then click on the third one down. Some of it is hard to chew if you don't believe in literal Genesis, but the main idea of the article is what I want you to read, so if you can try to wade through it.

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

Gideon
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: rooted on planet Mars, *I mean Earth*
Insane since: May 2004

posted 08-06-2004 18:45

quote:
DL-44 said:

Nope. There are many stories that attempt to portray things otherwise.
Obviously, if you choose to say that the bible is 100% fact, that is your
perogative. But you simply cannot use that as a legitimate argument to prove
your point, because there is absolutely nothing you can offer that will back up
that claim whatsoever.

quote:
when he said that if Christ be not resurrected then our faith would be in vain. All of the martyrs would have died in vain. All of the people who have devoted their lives to Jesus would be in vain. The dead wouldn't rise and all would perish into eternal damnation.
DL-44 said:

I don't see what any of that has to do with what I said. [refering to quote about the Curse]

quote:
DL-44 said:

Assume - for a moment - that Genesis is not at all accurate in any literal
sense.

quote:
DL-44 said:

To me, mythology is mythology, be it hebrew, greek or norse. 'god' is Zeus as
satan is to Loki as Jesus is to Gilgamesh, as Noah is to Merlin, etc etc etc

Gideon
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: rooted on planet Mars, *I mean Earth*
Insane since: May 2004

posted 08-06-2004 18:46

quote:
DL-44 said:

Nope. There are many stories that attempt to portray things otherwise.
Obviously, if you choose to say that the bible is 100% fact, that is your
perogative. But you simply cannot use that as a legitimate argument to prove
your point, because there is absolutely nothing you can offer that will back up
that claim whatsoever.

quote:
when he said that if Christ be not resurrected then our faith would be in vain. All of the martyrs would have died in vain. All of the people who have devoted their lives to Jesus would be in vain. The dead wouldn't rise and all would perish into eternal damnation.
DL-44 said:

I don't see what any of that has to do with what I said. [refering to quote about the Curse]

quote:
DL-44 said:

Assume - for a moment - that Genesis is not at all accurate in any literal
sense.

quote:
DL-44 said:

To me, mythology is mythology, be it hebrew, greek or norse. 'god' is Zeus as
satan is to Loki as Jesus is to Gilgamesh, as Noah is to Merlin, etc etc etc

White Hawk
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: out of nowhere...
Insane since: May 2004

posted 08-06-2004 21:48

Hi Gideon,

As regards your reply, especially:

quote:
Even though I haven't really been a Christian for long, I already know a bunch and feel better than I did in all the years I wasn't, put together. So, sorry WH, but that won't work on me.

No need to be sorry for a second. If your life is better for it, you have done what you should do (especially if it had previously failed to deliver). The path you choose is yours to follow, and I am happy that you find self-esteem and contentment. You have my respect and good will.

I must admit that my little monologues tend to miss the point, and rather fulfill a creative moment than state my exact opinion. I was having a bit of a rough day (hot office, drudgery, and a constantly ringing phone) and just needed to zone-out for a few minutes. I'm glad that the positive context was noticed, though!

I wish I had the time to read the rest of your post - sorry.

tntcheats
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: BC, Canada
Insane since: Jun 2004

posted 08-06-2004 22:05

quote:
I had no sense of morals, no sense of history, and worse yet I was toying with ways to committ suicide.

Toying with ways to commit suicide? No offense, but believing in science rather than religion didn't cause you to toy with ways to commit suicide. Suicide's a very selfish thing to do, too. One of the most selfish thing to do, actually--though I suppose killing someone else to achieve your goals (especially a kid or something of the sort) is more selfish.. (cough cough thiests)
And morals shouldn't be taught through religion, they should be taught through your parents, school, and life experiences.

quote:
Jesus died in vain and pretty much all of what Christians believe in is false.

I believe in everything said above, except the "pretty much" part.

quote:
it is truth. There are so many evidences that prove it.

There are many more evidences that disprove it.

quote:
(did you know that a lot of pastors and priests think that the world will end within this millenia?)

Did you know that they think that it's going to end consistently?
They just come up with new random dates and the such, and it always DOESN'T happen. Remember the year 2000? Then they said "oh my no, it's the year 2001 it'll end" then it STILL DIDN'T happen?

quote:
He opened my eyes.

Or closed them.

quote:
Yes, and I do agree that since not all people and certainly non-Christians don't really believe that the Bible is all fact, there are other things as well. If you do detective work and work backwards saying that well, if this is true, and He said this, and this is then true, then you will eventually prove the whole Bible. But, getting off the subject of the Bible, there must be eyewitnesses to Jesus's miracles. There were Jews and even some Romans that were healed, fed, resurrected, etc. Statistically, there have to have been more records of His miracles than just in the Bible. If you really want I can go searching, but for times sake I really don't want too. Just agree with me that there had to have survived at least one account of one of these miracles. Then that would prove that Jesus was something special and worth looking into what He and His followers said. Then Paul said it best in 1 Corintians 15

The Hobbit is still around, and will probably be around for quite the while longer.
However, I don't say that just because this thing and other places, such as other books (i.e. Lord of The Rings) Bilbo saved Rivendale from a fierce fire-breathing dragon.

quote:
Through Adam sin entered the world and through Jesus it left.

What the fuck are you talking about?
"Sin" still exists. Thou shalt not steal? There are over 35,840 motor vehicle thefts alone in New York City, New York. (I believe that's per year)

quote:
Death is no longer an enemy. I spent some time in the ER last night and got an eye opener. To many people death is an enemy. Not to Christians. Because of Adam it was an enemy, but thanks to Jesus, I no longer fear death. I am actually excited about the prospect of finally seeing Him exalted in person. Wow, I can't wait. But, Adam and Eve had that already until Adam sinned.

Not wanting to die is a good thing. It makes us NOT die, in many cases. You can't wait to die? You sure your not still suicidal?

quote:
Sin has always been around and always will be. People really did evolve from monkeys

Yep.

I agree that you can't be religious and believe in evolution--god made us in his image? God's a big monkey?

random fact
Dinosaurs were warm blooded and are more like birds than lizards.
They can't be cold blooded because most cold blooded creatures don't stand upright and aren't able to be found where the weather was cold, which dinosaurs were. They're more like birds than lizards because of their bone structure, and several other large reasons. One of them being that their cells had nuclei.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Dawn is nature's way of telling you to stop using that stupid quote."
- me.

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted 08-07-2004 04:35

Gideon - are you referring to "Holy books? Which one are you going to trust?" ?

If so....

Or hell....even if not....

I will say again - that site is absolute pure ignorance. It is 100% based upon the methodology of "the bible says 'this' so, let's change everything to fit 'this' instead of lookig at fact".

There's no point in continuing a discussion if such a resource will be your basis for argument.
My views can be readily found with a simple search or two here - the topic of religion has come up many many times, and I have often been involved.

One thing I would like to try to clear up though - you seem to have a problem understanding my use of the term literal (as opposed to metaphorical) and what exactly I am saying when relating such things as genesis as a metaphorical illustration.

Let's go back to imagining that genesis is a metaphor and not a literal representation (hold on - don't comment yet....).

Now, when I say that genesis is not accurate in a literal sense, you take that to mean that the end result is therefore not true. This need not be the case. In fact, that's the whole point.

The fact that genesis is a story with a message does not change the fact that mankind brought ruin onto himself by comitting sin.

Adam not actually being tempted by eve to eat an apple does not in anyway negate the idea that god created things perfect, and liked things that way, but that man ruined it all. It leaves plenty of room for that to still be the case in other more realistic ways.

Again - read any early works of the creation kind - they are filled with things that are quite obviously metaphor and myth. Any objective look at the bible must reveal the same.

But, it doesn't change the meaning of the stories. Just as Jesus used parable to illsutrate his message, so did the authors of genesis.

And I can't see any possible conflict.

Then again I am in complete awe at the total and voracious ignorance of the authors of the articles I have read at 'aig'.

Gideon
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: rooted on planet Mars, *I mean Earth*
Insane since: May 2004

posted 08-07-2004 22:35

First off, I am so sorry about the triple post. My comp was going on the fritz. WH, it's okay. And by the way that was an awesome rhetoric, especially since it was a bad day.

DL, I'll respond to your post first. Um, yeah, I will agree that a lot of those articles are biased. Like the dino expedition at the beginning of this thread. I did shake my head at that one. I think that people like that are more harmful than actually doing good. But, who am I to really say? Anyway, enough of my ravings, back to your question. You said that you saw the philosophy "Bible says this, lets change the facts to fit"? I must admit that I have not explored much of that site yet, just to pick up the loose threads after Ken Ham's sermon. So, in the regards of the web site, I don't know how much tweaking they do. The thing is, that I know for a fact that Ken Ham doesn't change the facts. Those are real facts about the world that he uses. Then, he uses them to answer questions about certain things in the Bible.

quote:
DL-44 said:

(hold on - don't comment yet....)

ok
I do get what you are saying here. It does make sense too. The only problem is that Jesus quoted the scriptures in Genesis, and believed that they were literal. If those are not literal, He would know (He was there before Abram, He knows). That is why those must be taken literally. If, for instance, the Torah was just that, stories, then many things would happen (and those 5 books are taken together). The history of the Jewish nation would not be there. Those five books are a collection of historical documents and laws. If they were just stories then the end result would be that The Father and The Son would be just what they were preaching against, liars. I know that is pushing it a little, but it is true.

As for TnT:

quote:
tntcheats said:

No offense, but believing in science rather than religion didn't cause you to
toy with ways to commit suicide.

None taken (and looking back, I do realize how deep I was in and the saying when threre is life there is still hope does come to mind now. I feel bad about those feelings now too), but, no offense, it was exactly what caused me to want to commit suicide. Science only theorizes what happened, why this happened, how this happened, etc. It never explained why I am here. Why I should stay alive. I will die someday anyway, and those that were sad will eventually get over it and die themselves, so I was asking myself what the point was. That is where Jesus came in. I still believe facts, and am still an amatuer scientist (very amatuer), but now that Jesus is there things make more sense than they did. It was like there was a veil over my eyes and it dropped when I asked for Jesus's help.

quote:
tntcheats said:

And morals shouldn't be taught through religion, they should be taught through
your parents, school, and life experiences.

And if that could work that would be great. The only problem is that there are inconsitancies in different people's morals. Some may think that killing a child is bad, but others may think it a divine thing to sacrifice one to a god (Baal, if you aren't familiar with it). Some think that canibalizim is good, while others don't eat any meat. There is such a wide range of values and morals that it causes problems in countries like America.

quote:
tntcheats said:

There are many more evidences that disprove it.

If you would be so kind I would like to hear some of them.

quote:
tntcheats said:

Did you know that they think that it's going to end consistently?They just
come up with new random dates and the such, and it always DOESN'T happen.
Remember the year 2000? Then they said "oh my no, it's the year 2001 it'll end"
then it STILL DIDN'T happen?

Yeah, that kinda gets on my nerves. I am so tired of people trying to put a date on something, or saying that this proves that we are close or far off. My thinking is that if God wanted us to know the day, He would have told us the time, day, month, year. It says time and again in the sriptures that He (Jesus) will come like a thief in the night. No one can predict what day He will be coming.

quote:
tntcheats said:

Or closed them

He showed me many new things, and helped me to see other's point of veiw. Not nececcarily agree with them, but see them. He has given me an incredible empathic imagination. It is a blessing and a curse. But, anyway, I now see more, and can discern what is what. You may not know it but I'm not one of those people who go around saying how bad others are because they aren't saved, because they don't have Jesus walking beside them. I can't do that because I myself am a sinner, and I don't hinder others because of my faith. My eyes aren't closed, they are more opened than they have ever been to pain, suffering, joy, and peace. I praise God every day for what He has done in my life. But, in the book Proverbs it says that wisdom begins with the fear of The Lord, I don't know what kind of wisdom it is, but I am starting to get it.

quote:
tntcheats said:

What the [****] are you talking about?"Sin" still exists. Thou shalt not
steal? There are over 35,840 motor vehicle thefts alone in New York City,
New York. (I believe that's per year)

Yeah, I know. That was the main problem many Jewish families had, the immediate satisfaction was what they were after. The overhrowing of the Romans, and a new Israelite empire. They wanted action, not promises. The thing is that we can't see the action taking place. Calvary was just the tip of the ice burg. He did so many things that weren't revealed to us until revelations or the apostles were shown them. Yes, there is sin still in the world but, Jesus cleaned the inside, not the outside (yet). In revelations we are told about how He will come back and erradicate sin, death, and suffering for a thousand years on Earth, then the dragon will be let out again for a season and then there will be a perfect harmony.

quote:
tntcheats said:

You can't wait to die? You sure your not still suicidal?

Yeah, I'm positive. It will be bitter sweet the day that I die/am taken up to Heaven (don't know what day that might be tomorrow maybe?). I will be leaving loved ones, that is the sad part, but I will go to see Jesus and live for ever in His love and glory. That is why I am not afraid of death. That is why I kinda can't wait. That day will be so awesome. I just hope I get to share it with my loved ones too.

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

Gideon
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: rooted on planet Mars, *I mean Earth*
Insane since: May 2004

posted 08-09-2004 07:08

Another thing about your random fact, dinos couldn't have turned into bird. That is a scientific imposibility. The reptilian gene code just doesn't have the right coding for the developement of feathers. It would be like going from a dog to a fish. It is impossible. There are scientists who have claimed to have grown scales on chicken, and have seen scales on chicken in the wild (mutations), but there have been no reptiles with feathers. That is a known fact.

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

Skaarjj
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: :morF
Insane since: May 2000

posted 08-09-2004 12:31

330 posts in theo ne thread...I think this offically makes an asylum record.

White Hawk
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: out of nowhere...
Insane since: May 2004

posted 08-09-2004 18:09

Dinosaurs didn't turn into birds, for goodness sake - they were simply more like them than reptiles. The name itself is a misnomer, "terrible lizard", as TNTCheats pointed out. you see, they were capable of regulating their own body temperature, so they were warm-blooded (unlike reptiles, as they are unable to regulate theirs, hence the term 'cold blooded'). They also possessed skeletons which were light and hollow, just like a birds- and with good reason too; as birds require the lighter skeleton to achieve flight, the dinosaurs required light bones to achieve such great sizes.

Let's face it, you are hardly going to be able to kick start an entire planet's terraformation with a bunch of tiny lizards with voracious appetites, are you? T'is much more effective to lay the foundations with the JCBs of the animal world before retiring them (eventually) in time for the rest of the eco-systems to be fully developed.

Birds, collectively, are among the oldest of the species on this planet - they have changed a lot, mind you, but they are closer to their long-dead cousins than most. In fact, early birds actually had teeth until they were ditched in the name of weight-reduction...

(Edited by White Hawk on 08-09-2004 18:12)

Gideon
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: rooted on planet Mars, *I mean Earth*
Insane since: May 2004

posted 08-09-2004 21:45

I know that dinos didn't turn into birds, that is nonsense. There are just some incorrect theories of the evolution of dinos into birds, and that is what I was trying to prove (not my best but...). That is true that there are a lot of similarities between birds and dinos, I find that amazing. Yeah, and I will agree that from a Christian standpoint (though many may oppose this, I will say it anyway) birds and fish (aside from plants) are the longest living organisms. I didn't know that they had teeth too! That is very interesting. I need to look at some of these fossils. And, that is cool about the 330. Hmm, people must be passionate about this subject (or forget what they said earlier)

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.