Preserved Topic: Dinosaur Adventure Land! (or, how the Creationists explain the Dinosaurs) (Page 3 of 9)

as far as I know that is fairly incorrect. Perhaps that is some sect of satanism.


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The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

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as far as I know

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well said

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Got pie?

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cherry! with ice cream!

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Guess!

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I think, Buddhist...

Now how did you know?

Sanzen said:

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which ones haven't I address. I explained bugimus' question.

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Yes, you did answer my question. I appreciate that very much. I am fairly familiar with the bible and I am virtually sure you're not going to find that in there BUT if it is there and you do run across it, please let me know

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because christianity is a fundamentalist religion, whether it is practiced fundamentally or not.

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I found this very interesting. I think I agree with you on this. The problem is that you cannot tell someone else how to believe no more than you can tell them how to spell and/or pronounce their name. There are a lot of people running around this world calling themselves Christians who believe and do things that are very remote from anything you will find in the bible. Similarly you will come across people who spell their names in the most odd ways and pronounce them completely different from any phonetic rules that I know of. But I respect that and pronounce and spell the names as they wish just as I respect everyone's right to practice and believe in anything they want.

On the flip side of that coin, I will point out just how much a name will be spelled strangely or prounounced contrary to the language. I will also point out to people that you can call yourself Christian if you like but that doesn't mean it actually has any basis in what Christ said. An example of this would be Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons. Then insist on calling themselves Christians and from a certain point of view I suppose they are. But if you get right down to what the bible defines Christianity to be, there will be some serious variances there. It doesn't mean they can't call themselves that but it doesn't change the facts of what they believe and what is written in the bible.

Anyways, I got a bit side-tracked on that. Sanzen, so maybe you can better describe just what you consider to be a satanist. Do you believe that satan actually exists? Do you believe he is a god? or the God? Or is this just a humanist version of satanism that makes no claims on the supernatural whatsoever?

InSiDeR, I am going to guess that you hopped onto a Pantheist bandwagon or some derivation thereof. Come on, let's hear it. If you say Xian, then we really need to talk

[edit] well, you answered while I was typing... ok what kind of buddhist are you?

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(Edited by Bugimus on 05-15-2004 07:20)

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Now how did you know?

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well, it's not that hard...I, in no way could see you be christian. Simply because I see..christianity never brought you any kind of comfort and peace, just unansweared questions....recently I saw, you have calmed down and talked very possitively, without rant etc.

I also remember you talked about buddhism couple of times before...saying things as if it can be applied to everyday life etc...

Since buddhism doesn not focus on theological and ideological stuff...it is easer to find comfort for someone with your "kind" of mind.
Plus I am sure you never liked idea of deities, gods and goddess...and Buddhism doesn't has that..(all IMO)

As for what kind of Buddhis you are...hmm... you probably fallow "old" Buddhism, that they see buddha as a teacher and apply his simple lessons/ideas to make their everyday life better and more peaceful. (then again I could be wrong)


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As for me...I think I mentioned before that I was an atheist...yeah I am sure I did.
Well recently I have been to numerous websites such as atheist.org etc. Reading their motives.
and I found them pretty lame...they fight... argue...bitch about civil right activism and all other lame prejudicial activities.

I only used term "atheist" to define myself exactly how it translates "without-diety"

But I see more and more that in America atheism is about "to prove unexistance of diety"
overall this is all Atheism seems to be about... Existance or nonexistance of diety.
( I am sure there are individuals calling themself athiest who do not agree on those definitions...
Thats fine...

Since those never were my motives, I cannot define myself much of an atheist...


I do not think there is a faith that can define my complex mind in one or two words...
so if it comes to religion, beliefes, philosophy...perhaps the closes definition I can think of is:
Humanism- a progressive lifestance that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead meaningful, ethical lives capable of adding to the greater good of humanity

Just keep in mind...I do not fallow it as a religion(I view it as a phylosophical definition I can use to call myself). I in no way view world religions as unecessary , useless and foolish as if we had to abandoned it long time ago.
No..I see a religion as very necessary for our society and I will do my best to tolerante it..that is exactly how I stand on idea of religions...they deserve tolerance.

(Edited by Ruski on 05-15-2004 15:52)

If you have any education at all you will know that Dinosaurs were around with the first men - they were created by the Supreme Being as pets for humans. This is well documented in the First Book of FlintStones.

Was that a sarcasm?

Humanism is just Satanism without religious dogma.


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Um, the kind of buddhist that's me? I really don't want to get caught up in its denominations. I look at it as a way of life rather than a religion. I know there are Zen, Tao, Nara, Mahayana, etc. I'm just buddhist .

Sanzen,
I believe that it is time for me (and maybe you) to tip our hands. You have every right to argue a side that you do not nessicarily believe in, however by being so close minded in the beginning it made you seem like you were holeheartedly for extremist evolutionism as you explained in the beggining. Also when you said Satanism I merely looked up the definition of the word and usded knowledge from books that i have look/skimmed through to support my arguement. I have been reading this thread and if it seemed like I was attacking you I did not mean to be doing this, the reason it may have seemed like i was 'attacking' you was that it pisses me off when people take a select portion of one group and shove it on to all of that group. So we have had some miscommunication. (there are sects of satanism) also in the world encyclopedia it states that most forms of satanism or devil worship believe that he is either an extremely powerful spirit or a god and that he wishes to be God and/or superimpose himself as God. Also you may want to enlighten us to exactly your beliefs instead of putting a general name to it that way we know your side as well as the other and can then continue to debate more effectively. Also if you actually do believe in satanism and not a similiar yet different faith you may want to get used to people attacking right off the bat since most of the world sees satanism as a horrid and awful thing. Again if my first impression was not a good one keep in mind it was only that of a person pissed off about one thing and writing about a similiar subject.

If one match can start a forest fire then why does it take the whole box to start a BBQ Grill?

The best and most impartial definition of satanism is one you're going to find at http://www.religioustolerance.org

I know for a fact that there are some sects of satanism that believe in what you said, however I don't think the Church of Satan is in the belief that Satan wants to be God. There are some sects that believe that since God is all-forgiving, Satan is the diety that rules while we are in human form and he is their God while on earth. I think the adopted form of Satanism (most commonly practiced) is one where Satan is a personification of basic animalistic instinct and true human nature. Satanists do not actually worship Satan, at least the Christian depiction of Satan. As Satan was a Christian term, but actually the idea of a character like Satan traces back into greek mythology. The idea that Satanists drink goat's blood and sacrifice virgins is in fact a lie perpetrated by the clergy in an attempt to exhile/persecute Satanists/pagans or dissuade their youths from becoming Satanists. In theory, though, Satanists are the exact opposite of most large religions. Most Satanist philosophy is not anti-christian... but anti-hindu and anti-buddhist or anti-pagan. It is because these religions prohibit humans from some of their most natural instincts. This is the real part where I become more humanist and not satanist. Because I am heavily anti-vanity. BUT the ideology of Satanism is that whatever makes you happy, you should do or it should be. So if you are anti-vanity, and that's what makes you happy then it's ok. Basically, Satanism glorifies satisfaction thru any means, physically, mentally or sexually - So long as it doesn't impede on another person's freedom. All 7 deadly sins are glorified by Satanism. I have a copy of The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey in PDF format if anyone is interested in reading it.


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Sanzen said:

Humanism is just Satanism without religious dogma.


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ok, ok...I am tired of insluting you...

but for "satan's" sake..quit being such a dipshit...

I have said it before...
(Humanism is a progressive lifestance that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead meaningful, ethical lives capable of adding to the greater good of humanity)

and I am gonna ask you...what the hell does it has to do with satanism or some kind of spirit called "satan"? (which you mentioned before you believe in)

No, seriusly...what are you gonna say next? Judaism is the samething as Hinduism but without many gods?

your way of thinking just amazes me...

Hey Ruski:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanism.htm

The reason I made that comparison in the first place, Ruski the Enlightened, is because even in the Satanic bible there is a section about why it is called Satanism and not Humanism. The basic principles of both philosophies hold striking similarities. The only real reason you're so irritated by that comment is you don't want to be connected to Satanism in anyway because of it's negative connotation.


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no...because it totaly has nothing to do with humanism.

and if it does, prove it.

(Edited by Ruski on 05-16-2004 01:32)

The bigger issue for me is that satanism simply apes christianity in so many ways that it just becomes ridiculous.

To shun one thing only to embrace an imitator is something that strikes me as completely absurd.

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no...because it totaly has nothing to do with humanism.

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Ruski are you even looking at the links people post on here.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/humanism.htm

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To shun one thing only to embrace an imitator is something that strikes me as completely absurd.

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What are you talking about DL? That doesn't even make sense. The philosophies of both systems are completely the opposite, and there is nothing about Satanism that imitates Christianity, and it has been around as long, if not longer than Christianity in several different forms.


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Sanzen said:

Ruski are you even looking at the links people post on here.

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ofcourse I did, what about it?

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The terms Humanism and Humanist are essentially meaningless when used by themselves

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This being said, I can see how you can find it hard to see my comparison. Satanism is a combination of about 3 types of Humanism (Cultural, Literary and Philosophical).

Points that coincide between Secular (the most OPPOSITE) and Satanism:

"the preciousness and dignity of the individual person is a central humanist value."

a rejection of divinely inspired ethical and moral codes in favor of codes derived by reason from the human condition

And most secular forms of Satanism coincide with this point:

the belief that full responsibility for the future of the world, its political systems, its ecology, etc. rests with humans. There is no God in heaven to intervene and save us from a disaster

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They feel that religious groups' "promises of immortal salvation or fear of eternal damnation are both illusory and harmful."

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This is a very very Satanist belief

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Since most believe that an afterlife is non-existent, they regard life here on earth to be particularly precious.

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It is said in the Satanic bible that all life on earth is to be held as sacred, and that human life should be regarded as the most precious of all

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They are energetic supporters of the separation of church and state.

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Obviously a very Satanic belief.

Pretty much EVERY point of humanist philosophy coincides with Satanism. With the exception that they have a firm belief in the absence of supernatural beings, the rest of the philosophy is the same. I was just making an observation, man.


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Sanzen said:

They feel that religious groups' "promises of immortal salvation or fear of eternal damnation are both illusory and harmful."

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Sanzen said:

Since most believe that an afterlife is non-existent, they regard life here on earth to be particularly precious.

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Sanzen said:

They are energetic supporters of the separation of church and state.

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atheists support those motives too..so what of it?

am I supposed to call them satanists too?

I think there is a good reason why humanist are called humans and athiest are atheist and those satanist satanist.

They have something that seperates them...

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Sanzen said:

With the exception that they have a firm belief in the absence of supernatural beings

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that is a very big difference, not minor...


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add: your explanations are absurd, simple as that...

I can compare Buddhist and Christians in numerous ways and say they are the samething exept christians have Jesus as thier Savior and God. =)

(Edited by Ruski on 05-16-2004 20:21)

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atheists support those motives too..so what of it?

am I supposed to call them satanists too?

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Actually yes, by christian standards, anyone who isn't a christian is a satanist.


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I can't go on anymore....what a dumbass.

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Actually yes, by christian standards, anyone who isn't a christian is a satanist.

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who are you to say that for christians?

lets see...Bugimus? Fig? outcydr? mahjqa?

please answear this question for our satanist friend....

If someone is not christian is he/she supposed to be concidered satanist?

At this point I just enjoy saying things to make you angry. I hope you realize this by now. You're more intolerant than any person I've ever met, because you refuse to let anyone have an opinion other than your own.


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Sanzen, I would be very interested in reading the pdf file of the Satanic Bible if you would consider emailing it to me at Fircrafter02@aol.com. Also you may or may not be interested in this but is said that one of the places that christians got their depiction of the devil (whole pic of a satyr with a biforcated tail and pitchfork) is it is actually the pict of the old wiccan god (or one of them im not sure). Not exactly tolerant of them huh?

If one match can start a forest fire then why does it take the whole box to start a BBQ Grill?

I'll send it over in a zip. As far as Christians being intolerant of Wiccans - yea thats pretty true, but Paganism was around long before Christianity. I believe that you're not delving far enough back if you're looking to find the origins of the Satanic representation though, the Satanist depiction of "Satan" could be traced back to the greek god Pan, who is the greek God of Lust.

[edit]
Says that email address doesn't exist sangreal
[/edit]


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(Edited by Sanzen on 05-16-2004 23:00)

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Sanzen said:

At this point I just enjoy saying things to make you angry

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What makes you assume I am angry?

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Sanzen said:

You're more intolerant than any person I've ever met, because you refuse to let
anyone have an opinion other than your own.

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look who is talking

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What are you talking about DL? That doesn't even make sense. The philosophies of both systems are completely the opposite, and there is nothing about Satanism that imitates Christianity, and it has been around as long, if not longer than Christianity in several different forms.

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apparently you have a lot to learn about your own "religion" and about the corrolations between it and christianity (primarily that satanism largely evolved as a "counter-christianity" movement and as such mimicked, but in reverse, the ceremonial aspects of christianity).

It's exactly this "completely opposite" aspect of satanism that makes it a mirror of christianity.

The various non-christian religions that have been dubbed as "satanism" by some are hardly that. It's absurd to try applying the term in that way - regardless of waht some 2-bit web site has to say about it

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Paganism was around long before Christianity.

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yeah, no shit. "pagan" is simply a generic term for someone who does not follow a version of the christian/judeaic religions...

It's not as if this one religion called "paganism" has existed for thousands of years.

Representations of evil deities that could be interpreted the same way as "satan" are found in jsut about any religion/mythos ever found. So are a huge variety of other typical deities. What does that have to do with anything?

(Edited by DL-44 on 05-17-2004 02:55)

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apparently you have a lot to learn about your own "religion" and about the corrolations between it and christianity (primarily that satanism largely evolved as a "counter-christianity" movement and as such mimicked, but in reverse, the ceremonial aspects of christianity).

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DL - you're still using the Christian definition of Satanism. Satanism isn't an anti-Christian movement, as Christians would have you believe. It is actually more anti-buddhist, anti-hindu or anti-pagan.

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yeah, no shit. "pagan" is simply a generic term for someone who does not follow a version of the christian/judeaic religions...

It's not as if this one religion called "paganism" has existed for thousands of years.

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No shit, man. That's the point I was trying to make. You can substitute Pagan for the term "Wiccan" you know. Just like an Orthadox Jew is still a Jew.


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(Edited by Sanzen on 05-17-2004 03:28)

How is it anti-buddhist, anti-hindu, anti-pegan, etc?

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If someone is not christian is he/she supposed to be concidered satanist?

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I would not use that term, no. But perhaps the point Sanzen if referring to is that you are either part of the solution or you're not. There is no middle ground when it comes to following Christ, you either follow him or you don't.


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How is it anti-buddhist, anti-hindu, anti-pegan, etc?

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Someone finally asked. The reason why it's so anti-buddhist/hindu/pagan is that they condemn certain actions of man. Now, Christianity does this too, but not quite as much as the aforementioned practices. There are lots of them, so I'll just list examples: Pagans believe that you should do good to all (IE the Three Fold Rule); Satanists are good to those who 'deserve it' ... IE Friends, family, lovers - LaVey said it as "Love for those who deserve it, not love wasted on ingrates." There are lots of Hindu/Buddhist ones - excess, anti-vanity, etc etc. All these are glorified by Satanism. Like I said earlier, a Christian example - the 7 sins are encouraged (IE If you are a glutton - your pride will make you lose weight). The idea of Karma is a joke to Satanists. My favorite Satanist saying is, "If a man smites you on the cheek - SMASH him on the other." Just think of every thing a priest, or a holy man has ever told you not to do ... and I can pretty much garauntee that a Satanist should do it, not that they do. Most little kids who "dabble" in Satanism do not have the mental capacity to actually practice it, because there's no structure at all - unlike most large religions, there's no real basis of right and wrong; nothing to tell them what to do. The idea of Satanism is all about satisfying the physical, emotional, and sexual (instinctual) needs of man. But a Satanist is also a strong believer in personal freedoms, so gratifying your needs should never interfere with another persons' (unless they express that they want them to).

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I would not use that term, no. But perhaps the point Sanzen if referring to is that you are either part of the solution or you're not. There is no middle ground when it comes to following Christ, you either follow him or you don't.

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Indeed, I was speaking loosely. But Satanism (like Agnosticism, Humanism, Paganism etc etc) is a very blanket term, and can encompass lots and lots of belief systems.


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I'm still not sure whether you personally believe in a supernatural being named "Satan". Do you?


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So, you think Karma is a joke? Why?

edit: Let me ask you... What do you know about Buddhism or Hinduism?

(Edited by InSiDeR on 05-17-2004 06:18)

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I'm still not sure whether you personally believe in a supernatural being named "Satan". Do you?

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Myself? No. I take Satan as a personification of man's natural instincts, not that a supernatural being actually exists. To me Satan just represents the carnal side of man.

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So, you think Karma is a joke? Why?

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Satanist philosophy would imply that man is in control of his future, his fate and his actions; that there is no supernatural influence on the actions of people. So if someone punches you in the face, karma isn't going to hurt them in the end... you're going to, and hurt them worse than they hurt you.


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What do you find attractive about your philosophy of life? It sounds like a very empty sort of approach to life. Do you find it at all such?


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Satanism is really what you make it; it's as empty as you make it. It's a very primal philosophy. I don't do anything out of the ordinary, I love my friends, my family. I guess the part that I enjoy most about Satanism, is that you don't have to feel bad about doing things that come naturally to humans. People are constantly condemned by society for things that we as humans used to be able to do, and that people do behind closed doors; when they shouldn't be. Satanism just screams the age-old addage, "Live life to it's fullest." We really don't know what lies beyond, so why feel sorry for yourself while you're on Earth?


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Satanist philosophy would imply that man is in control of his future, his fate and his actions; that there is no supernatural influence on the actions of people. So if someone punches you in the face, karma isn't going to hurt them in the end... you're going to, and hurt them worse than they hurt you.

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The philosophy of Karma would imply that man is on control of his future, his fate, and his actions as well. While Karma is personified as a supernatural influence, it doesn't make man's decisions, man does. Karma is just cause and effect.

Siddharta Guatama (buddha) once said there is no place on earth where man can escape Karma. You're looking at it wrong. If a man punches you in the face, Karma dictates that the reason of your suffering is because of something you've done, regardless if the puncher creates bad Karma for himself. Hurting them more than they hurt you only results in more suffering, and suffering isn't limited to physical pain.

(edit) Regarding this quote:

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Satanism just screams the age-old addage, "Live life to it's fullest."

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Wouldn't this be more of an Existentialist philosophy of life?

(Edited by InSiDeR on 05-17-2004 07:43)

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While Karma is personified as a supernatural influence

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I think thats the real key thing. I mean really that's just another way to look at it.

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Hurting them more than they hurt you only results in more suffering, and suffering isn't limited to physical pain.

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And then this is the key turning point. This is where the Satanist gets his (as hindus say) "Sense Gratification." The Satanist would gain emotional satisfaction from destroying an adversary, and wouldn't think that there would be an "effect" from this "cause". Assuming that Karma is a chain reaction.

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Wouldn't this be more of an Existentialist philosophy of life?

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Hrm, well satanist philosophy is pretty individualist, I donno if you're referring to the quote being existentialist or Satanism; but Satanism is.


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