Topic awaiting preservation: Media Violence, Christians? (Page 1 of 4)

Well, I've had this question on my mind for a while. Should Christians play violent video games, watch violent movies, act out violent scenes, etc. when they are supposedly carrying the "Gospel of Peace"? I would love it if some who are not Christians would post their thoughts on here as well, because I find that some of the hardest and best criticism comes from someone with opposing views as you. So please...

"You must unlearn what you have learned."
~Yoda

Honestly, Gideon, I think this is probably the wrong question to ask non-Christians. I imagine that most will be puzzled as to why you are asking them how you should live your life, especially when you live it according to a "code" that they do not subscribe to. And non-Christians are probably not the best source of advice on living the Christian life. That would be like a Zen Buddhist asking a Hinduist how he should meditate.

Or am I missing something?

___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

Has all the smell and look of a trolling post, to me...

To get "feedback" (yeah, right) from non-Xians, so that he will have a soapbox to pundate from.



(Edited by WebShaman on 05-06-2005 10:56)

Strangely this seems like yet another Christian bashing post starting up, even though it was started by a Christian... Or is Gideon playing Devils advocate?

Anyway, if they're Catholic surely it's fine to play and watch violence games and films, as long as they go to confession afterwards

If their protestant then it doesn't really matter because it seems they can get away with whatever they like anyway! 'cake or death!, ooh I'll have cake please.'

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Strangely this seems like yet another Christian bashing post starting up

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Who is bashing Xians in this post?

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Gideon said:

Should Christians play violent video games, watch violent movies, act outviolent scenes, etc. when they are supposedly carrying the "Gospel of Peace"?

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It doesn't matter as long as you do not genuinely intend harm - duh.

*Skaarjj looks at 'Gospel of Peace', then opens up history book to read about the Crusades, then looks at 'Gospel of Peace' again and resumes his permanantly puzzled expression*


Justice 4 Pat Richard

(Edited by Skaarjj on 05-06-2005 13:20)

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reisio said:

It doesn't matter as long as you do not genuinely intend harm - duh.

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But doesn't it sound hypocritical? Telling people the Gospel of Peace, then endorsing violence?

You are right, Suho, I should have done a better job at targeting my question. My only excuse is that it was late at night. Well, the damage is done, so let's just go with it.

And I didn't mean to exclude any Christians, I greatly respect your input too. The only reason that I didn't want it to be targeted to Christians is because it migh have become a huge doctrine debate, and I thought there were enough of those threads already...

But alas, if someone wants to prove a point please do, I am pretty confused about this.

"You must unlearn what you have learned."
~Yoda

You are pretty confused about everything.

Skaarj said it all.

"All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant, useful to the politician, and ridiculous to the philosopher." -- Lucretius, Roman Poet (94 - 55 BCE)

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Gideon said:

But doesn't it sound hypocritical? Telling people the Gospel of Peace, then endorsing violence?

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No it doesn't - few things...
A great many tell people to be peaceful and find violent video games horrid.
I'd say the vast majority, however, take games for what they are - GAMES, fun, etc..

Coming soon to a store near you -

The Religious Right 100% sanctioned Violence Free (except for the Saints..."Oh when the Saints come marching in!" and other "allowed" groups by God) Video Games!

Noah's Ark

Can you get the animals on board the Ark, before the rains come and drown them? 10 thrilling levels of animal collecting fun! (note: no animals were actually drowned to make this video game!)

Job's Test

Can you survive the tests of God as Job? How much can you take before you crack? 1 million levels of brain-oozing fun!! Can you get to the last level, and still keep your faith?



(Edited by WebShaman on 05-06-2005 16:12)

There was a SNES game called Noah's Ark. Job's Test would probably not be all that good WS. A Moses game would be neat, you can lead the Jews from Egypt, run the nation of Israel, kinda a sim-like game.

As far as violence in games or media Gideon, my policy is if it doesn't sit right with me and my beliefs, I don't do it, or try not to. Really quite simple. It is a choice you make using the knowledge you have acquired through the Gospel, the spirit within you and your thoughts, follow that rather than what others tell you. If you are unsure about something, or you have a bad feeling in the pit of your stomach (guilt) about something, that is a trigger. What you must determine is what caused that trigger, your beliefs and the Gospel or someone elses beliefs that have been ingrained in you. Is it because of what you have learned in the Bible and through Christ or because of what others have said to you? Sometimes those things tend to get blurred.

I mean, if I listened to some of the religious leaders out there, I would have never known the joys of reading a good fantasy book, playing D&D, and would have missed out on many excellent films and video games which are deemed satanic. Oh, and don't forget all that satanic music out there. No, I refuse to listen to others on matters such as this, I listen to my heart, and IMO so long as my heart and mind are in the right place, I can't go wrong in my actions. If it feels wrong don't do it.

Of course, I have been called a 'bad Christian' many times by people because I follow my own path and interpret the Book as my mind and heart leads me to interpret it. I have had Catholics want to get into fisticuffs with me and Baptists call me satanic. I don't care. Letting others do the interpretation for you, IMO, takes away your ability to make up your own mind on things, basically cattle to be manipulated, a useful idiot.

What am I talking about? No idea. Carry on.

Ramasax

(Edited by Ramasax on 05-06-2005 21:10)

Thanks Ram. Good idea, actually. I had came to the same conclusion a little while after posting this thread. I pretty much said, "Why am I asking them? This is between God and me." So thanks for helping me to affirm that belief more.

BTW, you are not a bad Christian. Other baptists may call you satanic, I will call you a good Christian. Because a good Christian seeks after God's will, and that is what it looks like you are doing.

I know that D&D is fun, all those fantasy games are fun, but the main reason why I am stopping them, is because they don't sit right with me. Doing an RPG as someone who steals things, when I wouldn't steal things in real life, gets to me. But I have realized that some people are able to play violent games and not be disturbed by them, so more power to those Christians.

As that I will sign off this thread...TTFN

"You must unlearn what you have learned."
~Yoda

Most Christians believe in the entity "Satan" and its power of persuasion. I cannot speak for all Christians. But in this century for the most part, we Christians have to believe the "father of lies" uses all sorts of mediums as tools. Even video games, movies, TV, radio, CDs, idols in the form of movie stars, musicians, etc. We, as believers would be ignorant not to. Since Satan uses its power to do evil in persons, its only logical to think that Satan uses all sorts of mediums to confuse, tempt and will be gratified in its quest to capture souls. Yes, I do believe there is danger to the soul to give in to all sorts of packaging Satan uses in his attempt to send subliminal messages. If you try to remain true to the gospel, you will be on guard and see the medium or source for what it really is disquised as an evil entrance to darkness.

poor believers. They forbid themselves so many things.

Gideon:

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I know that D&D is fun, all those fantasy games are fun, but the main reason why I am stopping them, is because they don't sit right with me. Doing an RPG as someone who steals things, when I wouldn't steal things in real life, gets to me

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That's exactly the point of the Role Playing Games : to pretend to be someone else ... and incidentally to enjoy a good story line with some friends. It's not that different than hiding behind a nick name and chatting on a forum, which you do almost every day.

I suppose you don't play FPS either since you don't use a rocket launcher a rail gun and a machine gun in real life.

This is the biggest pile of rubish I have every seen on these forums

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I know that D&D is fun, all those fantasy games are fun, but the main reason why I am stopping them, is because they don't sit right with me. Doing an RPG as someone who steals things, when I wouldn't steal things in real life, gets to me

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Blocks are mine.

Gid, if you don't "feel comfortable" playing such a character, THEN DON'T PLAY ONE! Play a different one. That is allowed in D&D, you know. In fact, it is one of the founding principles of the game, TO PLAY THE CHARACTER YOU FEEL MOST COMFORTABLE PLAYING!

I suggest you try playing the village idiot.

Whatever.

Just wasting air, here, obviously.

So much for 'Snakes and ladders' ... they must be heathens.

http://www.eurocosm.com/Application/images/Garden-games/snakes-and-ladders-lg.jpg

(Edited by NoJive on 05-11-2005 00:57)

My preciooooous.

sorry

Actually Poi, I don't hide. I am myself here, all my sometimes hypocritical, usually easily confused, sometimes funny, mostly lame, and always pro Christo self. I try to be myself. I only don't divulge information that I wouldn't want someone who I haven't met to know. Like a bank account for instance. I can't really be that way in RPGs.

BTW, if something hurts you, like a hot waffle iron, you are always supposed to either limit it or preferably remove it from yourself.

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WebShaman said:

That is allowed in D&D, you know. In fact, it is one of the founding
principles of the game, TO PLAY THE CHARACTER YOU FEEL MOST COMFORTABLE
PLAYING!

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But I don't think there are too many of the personalities I am comfortable with that are useful in D&D, old sport.

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WebShaman said:

I suggest you try playing the village idiot.

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I tried being an NPC, but my DM wouldn't let me...

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WebShaman said:

This is the biggest pile of rubish I have every seen on these forums

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Why is it a pile of rubbish?

"You must unlearn what you have learned."
~Yoda

Yes, I can see that playing something like a Paladin serving the good of the people and thier god, or playing as a Cleric who works to smite evils and be devoted to their god would not jive with something you would be comfortable with.

Don't talk out of your ass, it doesn't do any good for anything. At least take the time to think for at least two minutes before you respond.

Dan @ Code Town

^ I think that explains everything.

If you still cannot reason out why it is the biggest pile of rubish ever seen, then god help you, Gid.

D&D rocks!

I've played 'evil' characters before. One of them holds the record for PC/NPC murders. If you crossed him or the party, there would be Hades to pay. The other one wasn't a killer but a master of mind games (evil mind games).

I've also played plenty of other characters that weren't so 'evil'. One of them actually became the wife, avatar, and harbinger of Shaundical the Wind God. Another one took on a green dragon all by himself to protect a temple of Dumathoin.

And plenty of other characters with no association to any god or did anything 'evil'. The guy that I'm playing right now is a nice guy that doesn't say much.

For you, Gid, I recommend playing an elven undead slayer.

As far as violence and games go...
It's a non-sequitur that some people can't handle - Christian or not.
If you can't tell the difference between real life and a game, get some help.

Maybe some day we'll see violent games from a Christian perspective. There have been some, but nothing terribly mainstream that I've seen. Maybe an RTS where you play as General Moses.

A little addendum about Malici, my uber evil character.

Malici was evil and worshiped an evil god. Even though he was low-level, he was a *very* dangerous person because of his willingness and ability to murder. Not only did he take on single NPCs of much greater power than himself, but entire guilds and secret societies.

During one particularly intense session of role-playing, he gave up his evil faith. He is now roaming the lands and hunting down the evil priests that he used to call friends.

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Actually Poi, I don't hide.

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Why do you use a nick name then ?

Gideon: I've been meaning to post a longer reply here for some time, but it slipped my mind. I'm not going to comment on the current D&D discussion, since I believe it is secondary to the real issue. I basically have three points here:

1) Distinguishing between fantasy and reality. Most people, even children, are able to make this distinction. It is entirely possible, I believe, to indulge in fantasy while keeping it separate from reality. Not that our fantasies don't have any affect on our psyches--they can, depending on how deep you get into them. Even though I said I wasn't going to comment on the D&D issue, I will use it as an example here. I am comfortable playing RPGs, and I have no problem distinguishing between the fantasy existence of my character and my real life existence. Nonetheless, I feel uncomfortable playing evil characters. Every character I have ever played has been either good or neutral (neutral are the hardest to play, I think). Would playing an evil character be evil, though? I don't think so. I personally don't feel comfortable with it, but that's me. To bring this into another field, how about the field of acting? Role playing is very similar to acting--does this mean that actors who play villians are themselves evil people?

2) The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Matthew chapter 12, as you know, tells of Jesus and his disciples walking through the grain fields on the Sabbath. His disciples began eating heads of grain, and the Pharisess (who were all hiding behind a nearby barn), jumped out and started ragging on Jesus for allowing His disciples to "work" on the Sabbath (apparently following Jesus and his disciples around all day doesn't qualify as "work"). What did Jesus say? "Dudes," He answered. "Chill out." The Pharisees had lost sight of the truth because they were so focused on the rules. What did Jesus say He had come to do with the law? "I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Matthew 5:17). And yet He constantly ran afoul of the Pharisees, who knew the law better than anyone. What they didn't understand was that the foundation of all Biblical law is love: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:37-40). In other words, once you've got love down, everything else falls into place. My advice? Follow that first commandment and the rest will come naturally. Don't spend your time sweating the little stuff.

3) They don't call it a personal relationship for nothing. As you already mentioned above, this is between you and God, and ultimately only you can make this decision. However, I'd like to add something to that, something that relates to my second point. In Romans chapter 14, Paul deals with a delicate situation. It turns out that some of the new believers in the Roman church were freaking out because some of the older believers were eating meat that had been offered to idols. Paul points out that we are all free to live by our own convictions, provided that we are sincere in our faith. We should not spend our time finding fault in how our brothers live their lives. We should also not try to convince others to live by our convictions, as that may be wrong for them. I have heard different interpretations of verses 20-21 ("Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.") The strict interpretation says that we should avoid any activities that might cause our brothers to lose faith. The more liberal interpretation argues that this would mean we are bound not by our own convictions (i.e., our personal relationship with God) but by the convictions of our brothers. I prefer to interpret this passage along the lines of freedom of speech (etc.) in the United States--that is, I am free to say (or do) what I want as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others. The bottom line is that it comes back to my second point: it's all about love. If I truly love my brother, I will not allow my convictions to influence him negatively. Let's say I have a brother who believes D&D is evil (like, for example, you ). I would not swear off D&D for his sake, but I would make an effort not to mention the game when around him. I would certainly not try to convince him that it is OK to play D&D. But what I do with my own life should not affect this brother, and if we are both living in love then there will be no problem. I don't know if this is a sufficient explanation--it's actually a very simple idea, but it has been made complicated by varying interpretations.

Anyway, what it all comes down to is this: this is between you and God, and if you love God than you will know in your spirit what is right for you. Don't try to conform to other people's ideas of what is right and wrong.

And just to add a little flavor to this post, I would like to leave you with a Buddhist parable (if I may use the term) I am fond of...

Two monks were traveling along a road one day. They came to a stream that crossed the road, and there by the road was a young girl. There was no bridge over the stream, and she was trying to find some way across. Without hesitating, one of the monks said, "Climb up onto my back." She did, and they crossed the stream. The monk let the girl down on the other side of the stream and they went their separate ways. The other monk said nothing for some time, but finally he could hold it in no longer. "I don't understand," he said. "We are forbidden to have contact with women. How could you do such a thing?" The first monk looked at him in surprise. "I put that girl down back by the stream," he replied. "Why are you still carrying her?"

___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

(Edited by Suho1004 on 05-12-2005 03:17)

Suho, in that small post I have learned a great deal.

Thank you.

Dan @ Code Town

Me 2, thanks.

"You must unlearn what you have learned."
~Yoda

Oh, do tell, Gid - what have you learned?

Interested minds want to know.

WS, I am sorry for whatever I have done to recieve a snide remark like that from you. Unless it is for being a Jesus Freak. I am not sorry about believing in my Savior, and loving Him for all He has done.

And it is love that pours out from Him that lets me love Him with all my heart. It is that same love that comes from Him that ables me to love everyone I come into contact with, even you WS. For all your semantics, I still love you, and I would not wish to see you hurt.

Just like I have a nick-name at school Poi. It is something that I like. I am not really hiding behind it. Besides, if you want my real name, and any info about me, either ask, and I will gladly tell you, or look at my account page. I don't want to hide anything.

Suho, thanks. I did need to be reminded that the Christian walk is a very personal one. I have problems in mine a lot, and I think that I might over-use the asking advice proverb of Solomon's.
To address your points indvidually:
1.) I agree that most can distinguish between reality and fantasy, unless it gets too deep. In my experience I am one that, if I do something I do it. No pussy-footin' around. That means that if I get in a game, I get into it and do my best to win. I am someone who does not leave a job undone, or an argument unargued (expressed ad nauseum on Asylum). Thus, for me these games, I have found, are bad. Others, maybe not.

2.) Jesus did tell the Pharisees and Saducees to "chill." But He also said to not to chill to the point of abandoning the law. What I got from your post is that as long as there is love, then the stuff afterwards will just happen. I can't really agree with that. Love is amazing, and should be given to all, but you can love a person, without accepting his or her beliefs (Like I do with Atheism. One of my best friends is nearly Atheistic, and another is very occultistic, or something along those lines, and I still love them both.)

3.) Yes. I agree with all, but if you see a brother walking out onto a busy highway, do you just let him "do his thing?" That commandment is about nit-picky things like eating habits, and minor doctrine. But, occult and Satanism are not really minor doctrinal differences, or an eating habit.

I know that I said a lot of argument things, but on the flip side, I agree with you on a bunch of things. I do really think that the Christian walk is extremely personal, and that what God says matters, not what people say. Thank you.

And btw, for Christians that are on the fence about D&D and such fantasy games, read this essay. It was made by a former Wiccan High Priest, who was born-again and started a battle with the Devil about fantasy games. I found it intriguing and thought provoking. I hope you do too.

"You must unlearn what you have learned."
~Yoda

The Chick article is complete and utter hogwash.
Again, non-sequiturs and folks that can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy (on more levels than one).

If you don't want to play, then don't.

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I do really think that the Christian walk is extremely personal, and that what God says matters, not what people say.

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Then quit starting threads such as this and take it up with God instead of asking us.
Personal? Good. Keep it that way since it's God's word that actually matters.
While you're at it, don't make up your mind what other Christians should or shouldn't do, but what you, as a Christian, should do.

edit:

Suho, I'm kind of the opposite about characters that I play.
I can play all manner of characters, but playing a palladin gives me the willies.
When it comes to D&D clergy, I can play anything except a palladin.
Even though I can play an evil character with no qualms, even anti-palladins give me the willies.

(Edited by warjournal on 05-13-2005 05:37)

[tangent]

warjournal: I don't like the way most people play paladins. From what I've seen, the idea is that paladins are mindless crusaders who adhere slavishly to a code of conduct. To play them that way is very restricting. I tried to play a paladin once who was a little more "liberal," and my DM stripped me of my lawful alignment, which obviously did all sorts of nasty things to me being a paladin...

Anyway, in most of the campaigns I've played, the DMs have put limits on evil characters, as they tend to wreak havoc in a group and make playing a longer campaign difficult.

[Gideon do not read this part]Although I did once play a neutral character who was defeated and subsequently possessed by an evil villain, and I had to roleplay his attempts to destroy the party from within without being discovered. I must admit that was fun, and I do not believe I suffered any long term psychological damage from the experience. [/Gideon do not read this part]

It's been a while since I've played, though... D&D isn't exactly an adult pastime in Korea, I don't think.

[/tangent]

___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

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WS, I am sorry for whatever I have done to recieve a snide remark like that from you. Unless it is for being a Jesus Freak. I am not sorry about believing in my Savior, and loving Him for all He has done.

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I asked you what you learned from Master Suho's post.

I don't know what BS you are reading into my post, but it certainly wasn't snide, and I certainly didn't ask you to blurt out lines of "god loves you, WS!"

You say you learned something from Master Suho's post. Why don't you share that with us, hmmm?

The point of my post is, I doubt very much that you really learned anything. You seem very incapable of learning, from what you have shown on these boards.

Bringing Chick crap to these boards is just...

Man, you have so much to learn.

But if you did learn something from Master Suho's post, then I would be interested to know what you learned from it.

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Tool Time!

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This line is about the only meaningful part of that essay. It sums it up quite nicely.

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warjournal said:

hogwash.

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Heh, that's a Greek word...

It's not what you asked WS, but how you asked it...

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WebShaman said:

certainly didn't ask you to blurt out lines of "god loves you, WS!"

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Is there a problem with saying the truth?

I try to learn everyday. Being a student, that is what my occupation is right now. But it is hard to learn from sources that just want to bash you and your beliefs. That is why I try to learn from sources that are not "out to get me." But I will admit that learn comes in leaps and bounds, and some of the biggest bounds come from sources that disagree with me and make sure I know it.

Well WJ, I made up my mind that people shouldn't shoot themselves. Should I or shouldn't I tell a suicidal friend to not shoot themselves?

"You must unlearn what you have learned."
~Yoda

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Well WJ, I made up my mind that people shouldn't shoot themselves. Should I or shouldn't I tell a suicidal friend to not shoot themselves?

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Why did you decide that? Because of what God said or for your own reasons? There is a big difference, and will lead to the answer to your question.

Several of my friends back in school shot themselves in the head. Several members of my family committed slow suicide with alcohol. While sad, I didn't bat an eye.

I have heard of chick publications and it being a very popular source for anti-catholics bigitory, but it seems to me anyone who really believes in this site does not do a lot of historical or biblical reading. Its another case of a loose religious cannon gone wrong and taking many others with him. Now I know were many post here get their info.

Look what he says about my faith: Pure hogwash for sure WJ.
If you go to the very bottom, it shows the Vatican and refers to it as the Mother of all abominations.


http://www.chick.com/information/religions/catholicism/

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Why did you decide that? Because of what God said or for your own reasons? There is a big difference, and will lead to the answer to your question.

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I myself believe, we must be our brothers keeper, and that doesn't mean to get in their faces. We, are the best examples of how to be Christian. The best ways is-
Preach the gospel and when necessary use words.

Treat others with love and pray for them if they are doing something against the love of of God. As Christians, we cannot hide our head in the sand and wait for this person(s) to commit spiritual suicide. The act of prayer works wonders for us. And if these persons refuse to do the will of God, then we as believers know we have tried to spread God into this persons life. We know and believe by faith that we will have to account for ourselves in that we did all we could to fullfill the will of God here on earth. This is the Christian way. It may not be the popular current trend of today, but it what we believe. So yes, we want and believe all the earth should follow the will of Christ, savior, redeemer of the whole human race. This doesn't mean if your not Chrisitan you will go to hell. IT just that we believe God left a blueprint here on earth and we must follow and build on it.

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Is there a problem with saying the truth?

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Obviously you didn't learn anything. Just as I thought.

*shrugs*

Yeah, Chick is considered a whack-job even by the criminally insane. Pointing to Chick in a serious manner is usually considered tacky, sometimes even rude. There is a really good article out there somewhere about the history of Chick and how he has touched the lives of some people in the most bizarre ways.

So, Jade, if you were faced with a suicidal maniac, you would base your actions on what God has said. Correct?

edit:
Just wanted to note that I am more familiar with Chick's reputation than his works.
I've read some of his stuff, but not a whole lot.
What little I have read points to a complete nut.

(Edited by warjournal on 05-13-2005 18:58)

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I have heard of chick publications and it being a very popular source for anti-catholics bigitory...Now I know were many post here get their info.

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Aside from Gideon, I am quite certain you won't see anyone pulling info from this quack to quote in any serious manner, Jade.

Anything 'anti-catholic' I have had to say is based on historical fact and personal observation...

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That is why I try to learn from sources that are not "out to get me."

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But the sources you continually quote *are* the people who are "out to get you". We would prefer that they not accomplish that goal.

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Jade: If you go to the very bottom, it shows the Vatican and refers to it as the Mother of all abominations.

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Don't know about the rest of what this guy has to say, but I agree wholeheartedly with this assessment. Read some history.

Catholicism, or Romanism, and the Vatican has done more to dishonor and steal glory from God than any one person or organization in history IMO.

There is nothing bigoted about being against the false church.

Ramasax