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_Mauro
Maniac (V) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2005

IP logged posted posted 04-20-2006 00:21 Edit Quote

Ok, beta 2 is available.
A bit of background before I start... I had never really cared to switch to FF, never could really get used to it.
Namely, I had regular issues with it on different setups. Didn't know that at that time but the app had a baad tendency to leak until version 1.5. It was, somehow, easy to break, too much of a toy
rather than a program to my taste.

With version 1.5, I had a lot less issues of that kind, it became usable, and appeared to be nice.

I also tend to hate overly complex apps. I know what tabbed browsing is about, but I've always browsed in a similar way, by hitting ctrl+n when forking, and keeping tabs to my taskbar.

Hell, I still can't use an IDE for scripting, it just won't do, I just don't need 99% of the features.
Line numbers, and NO automated indenting, that's all I need, really.

I use Eclipse for complex projects and love it, though.
For cpp, dev cpp, which I find to be an IDE catastrophy, but at least, it automates the makefiles creation and makes code geared towards gcc and different platforms, unlike Visual Cshite and similar junk.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...Nowadays, with things like Open Office, Firefox, Eclipse, KDE... Not to mention Java vs C#. C# is Java for dummies.
It is not portable (don't even dare to say Mono - why would I do C# on Linux when Java is so cool and powerful?).
And it is not as fast as cpp/native apps.

It trades the goods of both ancestors for... nothing.

all these open source and free to use, all software that beats the competiton easilly (Opera's alright too ),
I am starting to look forward to the "downfall of MS".

Theyre doped and market friendly cheeseware just seems to be falling apart to me...



Sounds a bit biased uh? Well, I work with Windows networks and software all day long, so I know the topic quite well.
I know what I'd be leaving.

And today, FF is my default browser. It's the first time I really make the switch.
I still am on Windows, use 90% free software, except MS things I am constrained to use (the Visual Studio I despise: hundred megs of numbness and coding malpractices),
and I HATE IE 7.

It's a deep feeling of "they've gone too far in terms of pathetic copy of their rivals, and a FALSE sense of security."
That shitty browser has, within a couple of days, made me lose my temper several times by blocking things I want and cannot keep using,
it's intrusive, ugly, non-intuitive, a copy of others, it's bad. It's by far the mose dense pile of shit MS ever tried to feed me. Almost qualifies as the worst software I've ever used (Viriis are the next step).

Ok, I am getting emotional, so I leave it up to you, what are your feelings about IE7?

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 04-20-2006 01:36 Edit Quote

I hate it - and I agree - IE7 does "feel" like a cheesy ripped copy of other browsers.

I think M$ really screwed the pooch with IE - just sat back on their laurels, after burying NN long ago. Now, they have been nailed by the cojones, and are scrambling to catch up. Copy, copy, copy - that seems to be all that M$ can do these days.

To put it succintly : Oh, how the mighty have fallen!

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

Hugh
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Dublin, Ireland
Insane since: Jul 2000

IP logged posted posted 04-20-2006 01:45 Edit Quote

I've hated it since version 5, I liked it when it was version 4 and I started doing new stuff with dhtml, but then ActiveX came along, not to mention the way they made cross-browser coding a nightmare since. I wish Mozilla today happened a lot sooner.

I haven't tried 7 and dont plan on it so I can stay behind with the times and make sure my site looks okay in the previous version, I would upgrade it if the JS debugger wasnt vague or at least showed the correct line numbers and which file its reffering to exactly.

WebShamen: All they ever did was copy copy copy, very little of microsofts software is unique, they didn't even write DOS from which microsoft first took off. Infact I can't think of anything they came up with, windows?no, word?no, excel? no, access? no ...

(Edited by Hugh on 04-20-2006 01:50)

Hugh
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Dublin, Ireland
Insane since: Jul 2000

IP logged posted posted 04-20-2006 01:52 Edit Quote

Oh wait ... QBASIC , I dunno if anyone else made such a retarted language.

moaiz
Maniac (V) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Nov 2000

IP logged posted posted 04-20-2006 04:08 Edit Quote

I installed the beta of ie 4.0 on a freshly loaded machine and it trashed my load. Never forgave IE....bastards.

FF4eva!

I cant trust IE to get it right until at least 6 months after "gold."

redroy
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: 1393
Insane since: Dec 2003

IP logged posted posted 04-20-2006 06:03 Edit Quote

Mauro: Couldn't agree more.

Hugh: the list goes on... frontpage? no, visio? no...

Blaise
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: London
Insane since: Jun 2003

IP logged posted posted 04-20-2006 10:34 Edit Quote

Well whether you like it or not, IE 7 will go into distribution and regular joes will use it. It may even become an automatic update (which it should).

That means my friends that as web developers/designers/programmers we will have to support it when we write our sites, regardless of liking it or not.

All I can say is, it's better than IE 6.

Cheers,

_Mauro
Maniac (V) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2005

IP logged posted posted 04-20-2006 11:11 Edit Quote

Opinions are free.

"Wether I like it or not" is a whole different story altogether, and does make a big difference.
It is NOT because many companies rely on Windows that
we, as individuals and MASSES, should swallow the stuff we're fed with.

Freedom of speech, opinions, comparison, and in the end, decision, makes me different from a pork or an ape.
It allows me to foster good software practices, that may reach the private area and companies if MASSES follow.

It's "easy" to despise MS, but we've been handicaped by them for years now. Theyre making marketting
more important than software reliability is a handicap, it makes for doped technology: beats the competition
but trades off competitivity for reliability.

So.. do you want to drive a plastic car that costs nothing? I wouldn't want. I favor security over price.
And we have exactly the same issue here.

Some things in IE7 scream "poor design", I have some practical examples, but this just was a question...

Blaise
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: London
Insane since: Jun 2003

IP logged posted posted 04-20-2006 12:27 Edit Quote

You're right to think that Ini, but remember that if it wasn't for Microsoft making things the way they do then there wouldn't be any other companies out there trying to make things better.

It's all about competition, and although IE 7 may not be as good as its competitor's software, it does cater for its intedned audience, which is vast and varied.

Cheers,

_Mauro
Maniac (V) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2005

IP logged posted posted 04-20-2006 13:13 Edit Quote
quote:

It's all about competition



Since I do agree with that, fully, let's stimulate the Open Source competition, and if MS has what it takes, they will react and win.
And the user will, as well.

So? For the time being, let it be known.. Firefox rules!!

Alevice
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Mexico
Insane since: Dec 2002

IP logged posted posted 04-20-2006 20:28 Edit Quote

Because you mentioned C++ IDEs, you might want to try Code::Blocks.

Back on topic, I try to avoid IE as much as possible, all its security issues have got a nerve on me.

Regarding security, how IE7 feels?

__________________________________


Sexy Demoness cel

Moon Shadow
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Rouen, France
Insane since: Jan 2003

IP logged posted posted 04-20-2006 22:01 Edit Quote

Just a quick search on Google - http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-6034054.html

Favourite quote : "Some anti-spyware and antivirus software is known to interfere with IE 7's ability to install".


So... IE 7 is already detected as the latest virus/spyware - never ever install it

----
If wishes were fishes, we'd all cast nets.

Gilbert Nolander
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Washington DC
Insane since: May 2002

IP logged posted posted 04-20-2006 23:39 Edit Quote

what did they do, copy the firefox code and put their names on it? geeze...It looks just like it.

moaiz
Maniac (V) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Nov 2000

IP logged posted posted 04-21-2006 02:48 Edit Quote

Heard its better than 6....really Micro$oft is going to do whatever they want.

I will cheer on the standards fetishists who go out to wrestle the pig for me, then blog about it.

saturnine
Obsessive-Compulsive (I) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jan 2005

IP logged posted posted 04-21-2006 06:31 Edit Quote

Talking of C++ IDE"s . Wondering if you have tried the C++ plugin available for Eclipse ? The learning curve would be pretty small considering that you are familiar with Eclipse .

_Mauro
Maniac (V) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2005

IP logged posted posted 04-21-2006 07:40 Edit Quote

Tried it, CDT, used it for some time even, but it misses some key features (code auto-formatting for instance).

INSANEdrive
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Therapy Department 117 :Skining and Mods
Insane since: Jan 2005

IP logged posted posted 04-21-2006 19:25 Edit Quote

Does any one know if IE7 will Properly see .Png correctly?

================================
I don't Suffer From Insanity .... I enjoy every moment

_Mauro
Maniac (V) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2005

IP logged posted posted 04-21-2006 20:07 Edit Quote

Dunno, but a worthy info is that the ActiveX blocker introduced in IE7, the thing that bothered me most, is a protective measure that is also available as a patch for IE6 and should be installed quick.
We received the news today, at work, from MS, that a killer vulnerability has been discovered using ActiveX.

MS blocking theyre OWN technology Gotta love that.

Trust them. It only took the making of IE7 to "oops-spot" one more major gap.
It's MS's kb article 912*** and something (6 digits)... don't remember exactly. Don't care. FF.

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 04-23-2006 19:09 Edit Quote

INSANEdrive: yep. It's about time but IE7 supports 32bits PNG images.

INSANEdrive
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Therapy Department 117 :Skining and Mods
Insane since: Jan 2005

IP logged posted posted 04-26-2006 14:16 Edit Quote
quote:

poi said:

INSANEdrive: yep. It's about time but IE7 supports 32bits PNG images.



Good...

---

Microsoft feels the heat from new browsers <--- Good Read

-----------___________---------__________------
"There is no surer sign of insanity than trying the same thing repeatedly expecting different results."
-Albert Einstein

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 04-29-2006 03:06 Edit Quote

I've never really had an axe to grind with the IE versus other browsers. I just preferred Firefox mainly because of the tabbed browsing.
I downloaded the initial Beta IE and found it a sad copy of Firefox with regard to the tabs. Now I see I can't download the new beta 2 because the beta 1 blocks it I go to the download page, click the download button, very briefly the little bar appears to tell me it has blocked something, then it dissappears just as quickly and the download does not start.
Tried it twice, nay thrice, with the same inane blocker popping up and vanishing.
As the poet once said "All my arse, and that's bum".

::tao:::: ::cell::

_Mauro
Maniac (V) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2005

IP logged posted posted 04-29-2006 10:09 Edit Quote

Similar issue here.

It's the bug I mentionned, actually: once upon a security hole, IE makers have decided to issue patches that prevent usage.
Eg. it will prompt you for anything active, activeX, active scripting, etc. Which is ridiculous. And twice more knowing some websites are engineered to redirect you if Active scripting is not allowed.

Basically, I can't access my job's webmail because of what you describe.
Besides, I just spotted another bug: IE 7 beta 2 doesn't remember your proxy settings. Could not get around this. So, in school, anyway, IE7 is just not usable -at all.

...Back in 2000, a security wiz called guninski was warning the world against the poor active components model of IE, advising users to "disable active X and active scripting".
6 years later, Microsoft react.

An attack using one of the techniques Guninski described took a couple of seconds.
6 years / a couple of seconds == gazillions of occasions for attacks.

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 04-29-2006 13:19 Edit Quote

Thanks for the heads up InI.

::tao:::: ::cell::

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-02-2006 00:10 Edit Quote

You know what the worse thing about this is?

IE7 is going to win. It is just a copy of FF (without the extentions), and will probably have a bit of Opera thrown in...

And it will get packaged with every shipment, update, etc of Windows.

And people, being as they are, will blindly DL it. They will use it.

Workplaces will use it (because it will be the "default" browser, and will be "patched" and offered by the company that is "supporting" the OS. At work, for example, I basically use an illegal version of FF (No unofficial SW on the computers!) - FF, with its tabbing, allows me to work much faster and more competently, with a much better overview of what I have open (instead of opening 25 different windows and having them all down at the bottom, not being able to even read which one is which). My productivity through this technique, although not allowed, is about 25% better than my collegues (who struggle through with IE). I have tried many times to get management to see this, but they are about as smart as the dinosaurs they are.

And that will signal the end for another 6~7 years.

Remember Netscape?

And we can all bet that it will come with...taaadaaaa! A Search link to M$ Search *bleh*

Pardon me if I come across as a bit miffed.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles



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