Well I say a taster, i'ts a clip of the man himself just having fun. Ronaldinho Master Class
Only another twelve days to go, I'm getting twitchy with anticipation. I should state here and now in case you haven't guessed already, I love Football. I don't actually have a TV myself, don't have much time, or money for them, so I will be going out to friends or family to watch the important games.
Some links World Cup Blog Fixtures
If I had the time I think I would travel over to Germany just to soak up the atmosphere from a couple of games. Anyone else getting all Man United (excited) about the glorious game?
From: Therapy Department 117 :Skining and Mods Insane since: Jan 2005
posted 05-26-2006 04:41
Foot Ball as in" Pig Skin"
or
Foot Ball as in "Soccer"
(NVM... "Soccer")
In 2007 ill Be Very twitchy.. But for a different reason...
And now for some Jokes to Help with your Anticipation (Just don?t do what that one rugby fan did? with his sack of... *Twich*?Moving on)
Q: What do you get if you see a Leeds United fan buried up to his neck in sand?
A: More sand.
Q: What is the difference between Bill Clinton and Man Utd striker Diego Forlan?
A: Clinton can score.
Q: Name three football clubs that contain swear words?
A: Arsenal, Scunthorpe and F*****g Man Utd.
Q: How many Evertonians does it take to change a light bulb?
A: As many as you like, but they'll never see the light.
Q: What's the difference between a Liverpool fan and a broken clock?
A: Even a broken clock is right twice a day!
A Bloke walks into a bric-a-brac shop and sees an ornamental brass rat, the sort of thing women of a certain age love to put on the mantlepiece. He thinks "that'll be perfect for his Mother's birthday", so he asks the shopkeeper how much it is.
"£25 for the rat, £100 for the story", replies the man.
"Forget the story" says the bloke, and so buys the rat for 25 quid. He walks off down the road, but has not gone 30 yards when a rat comes up from the gutter and starts to follow him. Soon more arrive, and in a few minutes the whole street is a sea of rats, all following the bloke, who keeps walking until he comes to a cliff. He throws the brass rat over, and millions of rats follow, one after each other, plunging to certain death. The bloke them runs back to shop.....
"Aaaah", says the shop keeper, "you'll be back for the story"
"Screw the story - do you have a brass man utd fan?"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There Is A Fine Line Between Genius and Insanity... I Have Erased this line
quote:I don't actually have a TV myself, don't have much time, or money for them, so I will be going out to friends or family to watch the important games.
It is a type of cockney rhyming slang kimson, well spotted WHich two teams are you supporting, I think from memory it is either Italy or Switzerland?
I'll be mostly supporting England and Ireland, Brazil, and perhaps Australia if Kewell is playing, and I may even support the USA as I like rank outsiders to do well
Thanks for the link HZR.
INSANEdrive those are some old jokes you have there, but I do like the Man Utd ones
Yeah, I'm excited too. I'll be supporting Korea, obviously, but there's no way they're going as far as they did last time. To be honest, I'll be psyched if they just make it out of group play. Maybe they can be this year's Senegal! Although I'll be happy if they can just squeak out of there in second place.
And I'll be supporting the U.S. as well. Rank outsiders? Not that FIFA rankings are everything, but they are at equal 5th right now, while England, just to pull an example out of thin air are in 10th. I'm just saying, is all.
Still, we all know how much weight rankings have when it comes to actually playing the game (and their recent friendlies results should prove that). But the U.S. didn't do too badly last time around, and they didn't even have home advantage. They're in somewhat of a tough group this year, with the Czech Republic and Italy, but we'll see how it goes.
Heh, I was just fishin' with the "rank outsiders" remark Suho but you guessed that I see I thought Jayyayson "The Monk of Funk" himself would be the first to bite but I think you are the early riser.
Korea, ah yes I remember they did quite well the last time and were unlucky not to go further. The more I look at the fixtures the "twitcher" I become. I think Angola v Portugal (SUNDAY 11 JUNE) , has the potential for an early classic and will Serbia & Montenegro v Holland be a stumble for the Dutch as Montenegro are seemingly on a high due to the recent bid for national independence, or will that cause a rift in the team giving Holland an easy day?
Ah Switzerland right, my memory's not that bad in the morning then =)
Whoa, I see your playing France on the 13th and against Suho's team, S Korea on Friday 23rd Looks like you've got a tough round to get through.
Thanks for that HZR. I decided to give it a whirl, bloody microstupid, nearly everytime I go to that site they ask me to download a verification tool. That must be the fourth or fifth verification tool I have downloaded from them. The first one (today) did not work which may or may not be because I'm using Firefox.
Aaaanyway, got it and this is what it looks like here. I'm putting up the screenshot as microsoft did not provide any visual clues themselves It looks OK I suppose, don't know if I'll keep it though, it uses up about 22.000k of memory when running. Still, cheers for that HZR.
I see Sweden are playing England on the 20th, lycka till!
I'm hoping for the kind of referee luck against Italy that Korea had in the last go (sorry, it was the skating celebration by Ahn, I quite loved the team up to that moment )
I'm cheering for Croatia, and France, and maybe a little for America. But more importantly, I'm cheering for whoever plays against England, Italy, Portugal, and Brazil.
Tao, yeah, I figured you were fishing, but I just couldn't help myself!
kimson: I'm afraid you and I are going to be at odds in group play, because Switzerland is really the key for Korea to advance (and vice versa, I would imagine). Unless France implodes like they did last time. That would be nice.
Jason: I can't say I disagree with you. I support Korea, but I hate Ahn. With a passion. In fact, "hate" is probably too mild a word. He is such a conceited, self-important punk it makes me sick (I doubt anyone else saw Korea's friendly with Bosnia last night (they managed a 2-0 win), but Ahn blew more chances than most teams see in a game.). I am so pissed he's on the squad this year. He does not deserve to be there. Not with class acts like Park Jisung, Lee Chunsoo, and Park Juyong. My wife is upset that Cha Duri didn't make the squad, but he didn't really do all that well this year. Still, he would have been a better pick than Ahn.
So, I sympathize. The skating celebration ceremony really pissed me off, too.
Hey guys, havent been around in a while but hey, it's the World Cup _
the safe money is on Brazil and i think Argentina could be there as well. Spain has a solid team and a fairly easy path to the second round, I think they'll do well. England is talented but the health of some key players is questionable, if they play well they have a shot though. Korea should be fun to watch after their amazing run in '02, and I'm curious to see how the US does. we are highly ranked but i don't think we've played particularly well recently, and we've looked outclassed in most of our matches against the better european teams. i think Holland and Portugal have potential to do well, and i'm interested to see how France plays after their last dismal performance.
I'm cheering for Croatia, and France, and maybe a little for America. But more importantly, I'm cheering for whoever plays against England, Italy, Portugal, and Brazil.
No sitting on the fence there then Dan
Fig, I've not tried playing fantasy football yet but I think I may try really hard to overcome my aversion to anything McDonald's and have a go.
WebShaman, I see that the US had a good result yesterday US bounce back with Venezuela win
Looking for clues to see how well the national teams are performing in the various friendly matches has not been as easy as I expected. I have yet to see one website that has managed to collate all the friendly games so far, I have had to get the odd result here and there.
I think these are the better sites that I have visited so far: BBC Sport Deutschland 2006 FIFA World Cup
Reading that account of the US win over Venezuela, I felt like I was reading an account of recent Korea's 2-0 win over Bosnia (with the exception that both of Korea's goals came in the second half). Korea also wasted numerous chances in front of the goal (as usual) and had the occasional defense breakdown that nearly led to disaster (as usual). Sounds like both of my teams are going to need to tighten up on both ends if they want to advance out of group play.
Frankly the friendlies are always friendlies, last minute checks of weird possibilities and fall back scenarios for the most part, and getting to know everyone. I generally don't put much stock in the last friendlies before a World Cup but the US hasn't looked bright at all against Morocco, Venezuela and Latvia and Ghana has been destroying teams. My optimism that we can make it out of the group is waning.
That said anything can happen right? Maybe the scandal in Italy shakes the team, the Czechs are having a lot f injury troubles... Ghana and the US go through
quote:I think that if America survives its group, they will have a very good chance to make it into the Semi-Finals
If the US makes it out of their group it'd likely be in the 2nd place position, they'd likely be facing Brasil immediately so semis are doubtful for the Group E 2nd place team!
HZR: You can open the ZIP file of the widget and check the source codes by yourself
My contribution to the Goal'06 widget is small. I've only made the CalendarEvents library ( which I rather like ) and the Scraper "library" ( which IMHO is not worth the label "library" in its current form ).
Beside that I'm not really fond of soccer, but I guess I'll have to watch a match or two.
quote: JKMabry said:
Fig! Figoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool(Edited by JKMabry on 05-31-2006 02:57)
that's actually a nickname of mine...and i'm buying his black portugal jersey just to have it
my only hope for the US is the injuries to the Czech team and the idea that Italy supposedly starts slow. their play against Latvia looked a LOT more creative than it has in recent months, so maybe we'll come alive for the tournament...who knows.
i'm going to have to avoid this place during the day as i'm trying to tivo the games and watch them at home in the evenings without knowing the score...
Man, I am just not sure about this World Cup. Korea got slaughtered this past weekend by Ghana, 3-1. Their defense is like a sieve. And worse, Ghana looks pretty capable! I haven't seen the US team in action lately, so I don't know how it's going to turn out, but my optimism is wearing thin. As for Korea, I'm just hoping they can get out of group play without three losses. There's no way they're making it to the round of 16 (and I've just got to get me some of whatever the Korean coach is smoking.... going on about how Korea is going to reproduce the 2002 results....).
I'll probably avoid this place during the day as well, but I don't know if I'll even be able to watch the US matches here. My only chance is the US military channel, but I'm not optimistic.
If you use bittorrent check out fbtz.com, every match will likely be capped and posted on public trackers, they'll have links. I believe they did every match of Euro 2004 and I've never seen a Champions League match missed.
I could dig out some Chinese streaming sites if required as well, I don't use them as I normally get skippy video and it drives me nuts
At last, the first game of this years World Cup is about to begin, Germany v Costa Rica. Then a few hours later, the other two teams in group A, Poland and Equador, play their match.
For a little extra interest I'm going to try to predict the results
Germany 3 Costa Rica 1
Poland 1 Equador 2
I think the chances of me being correct on the scores are slim.
That was a good opening game I thought, and not far off with my prediction too.
quote: JKMabry said:
I just had it spoiled by google's personalized homepage, they have what appears to be a live World Cup module stuffed in there today, bastardos!
Are you trying to avoid the results so you can watch the game later J? I've just looked at the Google homepage with the scores on it and I like that better than the Microsoft Soccer Scoreboard HZR pointed us to, the score on that still says Germany 0 Costa Rica 0!
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-10-2006 11:54
I must say, that the Germany vs Costa Rica game was....unsettling.
The German defence is very lacking. Offensively, things worked out very well for Germany, I think. But Lehmann is just...he is just not Kahn. I think that in the next couple of games for Germany, it will become apparent that they have a huge defensive problem. Perhaps Klinsmann will fix it. We shall see.
I was very surprised with the Poland vs Ecuador result! Although I did not see the game, that was really surprising to me. I am really looking forwards to Germany vs Ecuador. I think that will be the "real" litmus test for Germany in their group.
GO USA!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
I agree with your comments on Germany WS, things were looking a little shaky there for a while. I swear I saw Kahn grinning slightly when the 2nd Costa Rican goal went in.
England kick off in a couple of minutes so I'll give another prediction. England 0 Paraguay 4 Heh, nah, I betthatgot you going I really mean the other way around England 4 Paraguay 0
Come on England...
Paraguay NEVER wins by 4, conversely you'll NEVER see them give up 4 either
Good on England for not falling asleep or getting someone sent off
Germany is looking about as I expected, they need to get the home crowd thing going and ride that wave if they wanna go far, they just don't have the talent this time around. Germans always find a way to do something, it's almost a lock they perform better than I thin they can
You are right there J, I over guesstimated (sic), in the end it was a relief to hear the final whistle. I think Sven messed up on the substitutions but we managed to get the right result eventually.
I think I'll sack myself as a football pundit trying to guess the scores.
hows about that SWE/T&T match?!?!? THAT was something!
I have watched WC soccer live on TV for the first time in 12 years, this is awesome. Unfortunately I only have ABC and won't be getting the ARG/Ivory Coast match til probably tomorrow I think I'll look for a stream.
West Ham should grab the T&T right back for Hislop to bring back with him!
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-11-2006 01:58
The Argentina vs Ivory Coast was the best game I have seen so far!
Now THAT is World Cup Soccer! WOW!
Argentina has a rock-solid team! Great offense, great defense, great middle-field...and they don't seem to have any real weaknesses. Of all the teams that have played so far, they are the best that I have seen.
The Ivory Coast is also impressive, but in that group that loss could mean bye-bye for them.
I wasn't really impressed with England, not at all. They need to increase their game immensely.
I didn't see the Sweden vs T&T game.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 06-11-2006 15:26
This is pretty good...and a quick read.
quote:A socialist?s guide to the World Cup. In many countries, soccer is a terrain of political and ideological struggle like the media or the education system.
Good links there NoJive thanks for that. The BBC site seems to have sharpened up its act so I tend to use that mostly now.
I am away for a few days and may not get the chance to use a computer so I would like to wish our Australian, Japanese, American, Czech, Italian and Ghanese inmates who are following the games the best of luck tomorrow
The most enjoyable match for me today was the Mexican win over Iran 3 - 1. One thing that took me by surprise was that no commentator,with two hours of chat to supplement the football commentary, made any puns, stupid or otherwise, about a Mexican wave.
Now it's time for the real games. Tomorrow USA vs Czech should be awesome, then on Tuesday Croatia vs Brazil should be a really good game too. I'll be watching the France game as well.
For my betting tomorrow, I put my money on 2+ Goals in the USA game, and I chose Italy to win. (Gambling makes everything better! Unlike socialism... NoJive :P)
Good luck to all your teams.
...and better luck to mine.
Paraguay is a _hard_ team to look good against, they've always had a terribly stingy defensive mindset. That said, they did make England look like poo I dunno what Sven was doing taking owen out, that changed the whole game for the worse, Crouchino had nothing to do after that.
Most games have been a little boring for me so far, I got caught up in the T&T game, I had Sweden to run all over them by a mile and I was rooting for T&T by minute 60, they did very well, and Sweden sucked a bit. Expected a lot out of the Dutch and didn't get to see it but again, Serbia & Montenegro are tough as nails too.
The best thing about this WC so far is that the tacticians who rely on strong defense are losing to the "flair" teams still. By only one goal but ya, wins a win. We could see some awesome games with later matchups if that trend continues.
I'm sincerely hoping the US can get out of this group, that would be a massive feat. They'll need at least a draw today against the Czechs. As much as we've improved over the years I'm still not comfortable predicting US results, they can be world beaters one day and a lifeless lump the next. I've no doubt th eUS can win against anyone, but I don't think they can do that for a month of games unfortunately
Fantastic win for Australia! Ian, you must be ecstatic after that dramatic come-from-behind performance!
I was rooting for the Aussies as well, for two reasons: 1) they were playing against Japan and 2) Hiddink (who is something of a national hero here in Korea).
That was a totally bogus goal Japan scored early on, and even if I hadn't been rooting for the entire Japanese side to be eaten by crocodiles, it was poetic justice for them to fall apart in the end like that. Great strategy by Mr. H, and great heart by the Aussie side to stay in the game.
Now... fifty minutes 'til the US-Czech match. I'm just praying we don't get slaughtered (and that I can watch the game quietly enough so that I don't wake the wife and get slaughtered myself--the match starts at one in the morning here).
Well that was a depressing half. We are being solidly outplayed by the Czechs. Up until that second goal, I thought we had a chance to pull something off. Reyna's shot off the post at around the 28th minute could have been a turning point had it been a few centimeters to the right. But that was our only real scoring chance for the entire half, and that's just not good enough against a Czech side that threatens to score every time they have the ball on the attack.
Our crosses are completely ineffective, unlike the Czech crosses, each and every one of which is a scoring chance. The gap between the two sdes right now is painfully obvious.
I think it's still possible for the US to pull out of this and maybe draw, but I don't think it's very likely. Something needs to change for the US to have any chance in the second half. Those two Czech goals were works of art. Meanwhile, we look like we're just splashing paint on a canvas at random.
One glimmer of hope: while you never like to see a player carried out of the stadium on a stretcher, I was not sad to see Koller go. But it's the US offense that is going to have to step things up against the Czech defense. Either that or our run might be over just as it's getting started.
Well, Koller is pretty much the Czech offence, so I think the US can get a little more agressive in the second half. Up until now things wern't looking good, so I'd say the American players are due for a good performance.
Good new is only need 1 more goal this half to cover the 2+ over.
3-0. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the worst defeat so far. What an absolutely pathetic performance. It didn't help that we were playing catch-up for nearly the entire game, but that just sucked. We played a bit more aggressively in the second half (with the only real shooting coming from Johnson), but it wasn't nearly enough.
Now we're going to have to beat both Italy and Ghana outright to stand even a chance of making it out of group play--and even then we still might not make it. Things are looking pretty bleak at the moment.
Next up for me... Korea vs. Togo. Unlike the US, Korea starts off with their easiest opponent, so maybe they can build some momentum and pull a rabbit out of the hat. On the other hand, if they lose against Togo, they're pretty much screwed.
THe Czechs look capable don't they?! The US looked completely impotent, early goal killed them from the go. Wussies need to suck it up and leave everything on the field against Italy
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-13-2006 08:22
The US is a pile of crap. Go home.
No offense, no middlefield, no defence.
Seriously, if you can't play the game, stay home. The US demonstrated the worst soccer playing in the WC so far. They deserved to get beat and will soon be packing to go home, and the sooner the better. What a pack of losers.
Why are they even at the WC? To look bad? Well, at least they are doing that well.
Italy will stomp the US into the ground and Ghana will probably beat them as well. Looks like the US will be going home as complete losers.
On a positive note, the Aussies had an amazing finish - wow. At least they realize that one has to score to win.
I am really looking forward to the Brazil vs Croatia game.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: Darwin, NT, Australia Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 06-13-2006 08:25
^ Suho
Yep, it was sure looking grim for a looooong time there; even Hiddink was chewing his nails before that magic moment when Cahill sent the fans maaaaad ; and again then Aloisi just for luck
Slightly o/t; Aloisis's cousin is a really old mate of mine; he'll be pissed (drunk) for weeks now
Poor ol' Japanese just fell to pieces then; too bad the US didn't rally a bit; maybe they need to borrow Guus for a while.... later tho' .... like in a few weeks
Aww, just can't stop
[sense] Organisation is anathema to organisations [/sense]
too bad the US didn't rally a bit; maybe they need to borrow Guus for a while.... later tho' .... like in a few weeks
Hmm... that's not a bad idea. Maybe we can borrow him for the next World Cup.
I'll be honest, I know next to nothing about the US squad. I haven't watched the US play since the last World Cup. They just don't show US matches over here. So I don't know if this is normal or not, but if it is, I'm wondering how they ever managed to climb to 5th in the FIFA rankings.
One of two things will happen in the Italy match. Either 1) The US will pull their act together and play their hearts out against Italy, possibly even winning in the process and keeping our hopes alive or 2) they will collapse like a house of cards in the wind, taking any hope of getting out of group play with them. Obviously I'm hoping for the former, but everything I've seen so far points to the latter. I'm still rooting for the boys to win, but I won't be waking up at four o'clock in the morning to watch the Italy match. Not after what happened last night.
My predictions for our group: Czech Republic first, Italy second. Koller's injury is not as serious as first feared, and although he will likely miss the Ghana match, I have a feeling he'll be back against Italy.
Less than five hours to Korea's date with destiny...
I'm away from home atm, so I haven't got long to post my thoughts. I only managed to get to see the highlights of Australia v Japan and USA v Czech Republic yesterday.
What a great result for the Aussies, Cahill has shown determination like that all season for Everton, so it was really good to see him get really stuck in. Harry Kewell looked like he had a good but relatively quite game, he has been slowly but steadily improving his game here at Liverpool the past year. I think he will only grow in confidence along with the rest of the team now with this great moral boosting win.
Although the USA lost I would not be too hard on them, at least not from what little I saw of the game. Two of the three goals conceded were world class strikes that would have sunk virtually any team in the competition. The USA team looked proficient enough but I think they lacked confidence, plenty of possession not much penetration. It will be hard for them to proceed to the next stage from here but not impossible. The true size of the task will better be understood after todays games.
Let's see what we have lined up for today.
Oooo lovely stuff... S.Korea v Togo:
This is a bit of an unknown for me but I'm going to be looking out for Suho's team and that "skating Ahn" malarchy Jason or Suho mentioned earlier.
France v Switzerland
I should imagine the bookies have France down to win this one but remember the last WC? Actually, I think because France did so badly in the first game last time, they are going to be extra vigilant not to mess up this one. I think kimsons team are going to have to be very tight to get any result here. If the Swiss can stop France from scoring early on this will frustrate the team and the supporters, and France don't play well under that kind of pressure.
Brazil v Croatia
One of the many things I like about watching Brazil is that their style of football will always allow the opposition to come back and score if the talent is there. The play is so open that a good defence can win the game for you. Having said that I am hoping for a footballing feast with Brazil as the starter, main course, and a sweet, sweet finish.
WS: Why the doom and gloom? I'll be the first to admit defeat when it is a foregone conclusion (like, say, if we lose to Italy), but until then, I'll be rooting for our team.
Tao: Yeah, two of those goals were indeed unstoppable, but a goal is not only the final shot--it's everything that leads up to it as well. And the US defense was just not up to the task of fending off the Czech offense (and let's not even talk about the US offense). We needed to step it up and we didn't. If we don't step it up against Italy, WS's predictions of doom and gloom will come true (I suspect they might come true anyway, but there is still hope, however slim).
As for the Korea-Togo match (which will be starting in a few minutes), it's a tough one to call. Obviously I'm rooting for the Korean side, but this is not going to be an easy match. Korea's last friendly was against Ghana, and they lost 2-0. They looked even worse than the US did last night against the Czechs. But they've switched from a four-back formation to a three-back formation, so we'll see if that does any good. The key for Korea tonight is going to be defense, although they're going to need some scoring as well (one area that Korea has always suffered in). They really need a win against Togo if they want to have any chance in this group. A loss pretty much seals their fate, and a draw may only postpone the inevitable.
OK, game time. I'll be back at halftime with my analysis.
Korea looked a bit shaky for the first fifteen minutes and then seemed to settle down and start putting pressure on Togo. As I said, though, defense is the key, and the Korean defense has proven fairly incapable of handling Togo's long passes and speed. Togo hasn't threatened much, but when they do they're dangerous.
In particular, defender Kim Jingyu has shown once again just how mightily he sucks. I have no idea why he is even in there, given how badly he sucks. Why isn't Kim Namil on defense? I don't understand.
The Korean defense is going to have to tighten up in the second half if they want to salvage this match. The Korean offense is just not going to be scoring three or four goals a match, so if they want a win they really need to clamp down tight. The offense is going to need to get on the ball, too. Watching the Korean offense against Togo is somewhat reminiscent of watching the US offense against the Czech Republic--a whole lot of sound and fury, signifying not much of anything. But Togo is no Czech Republic, and I have hope that Korea will score (maybe even twice) in the second half.
Fortunately, Ahn did not start the match today, and I don't expect him to come on in the second half. I'm hoping that Park Juyeong will come on and work some of his playmaking magic. Cho Jaejin is a good striker, and given some good chances I think he can put the ball in the goal.
What am I hoping for? A 2-1 victory at least, of course. If Korea doesn't step things up, though, that's not going to happen. For starters, they can't allow any more goals. If Togo scores again, Korea will most likely lose. If not, well, we'll see what happens.
[Edit: Reading over my "analysis" here, I think I need a new nickname: Mr. Obvious ]
[Edit: OK, Kim Jingyu is out, but Ahn is in. Well, let's see if he can do something with the offense.]
WS you old bandwagonner you, sad thing is you may be right in the end. Suho is right right now however. The manager's called out some players on their performance in public and that's always a risky move. Hopefully we can get past this and rally. You say you dunno much about the US team? They're not a fluke in 2002 and they've had a few runs since when they looked again like world beaters, you show your ignorance or hatred if you count them out at this point. I never like to see a coach airing the harsh trtuth at a press conference tho, that should be left for the locker room. I trust he knows his players beter than I do, if not in the end we'll have his head!
I can't believe Togo is up on S Korea! Do they even have a coach? Pfitzer (sp?) left, have they replaced him? I lost track of that story. I'd like to see the Koreans do well again, they're always a fit and well drilled side if nothing else. GO KOREA
Togo had a due bounced from what I've heard, I have no tv, catching this on a board =\ Looking up for Korea
quote:The only team that can beat Brazil, is Brazil itself.
DAMN! You _are_King_ of the Banwagonners, middle name Mr Safe Bet
I've seen more than one handful of teams in Germany that can beat Brasil on any given day, but yea, if you wanna statistically safe bet go with Brasil. Do you watch this sport or just check the Ladbrokes oddsmakers?
So has Togo's coach returned to the team then? I'm off to look that story up and get back to work... have fun suckas!
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-13-2006 16:55
Go SK!
And Jason...I know more than enough about Fussball, I think. I have been following it solidly for over 13 years now - Der Bundesliga and European soccer.
I know a good team when I see it, and I know crappy playing when I see it.
And what the US showed was extremely bad. They just gave up.
Well, YOU NEVER GIVE UP in the World Championships!
Doesn't mean I hate them, either. I am extremely disappointed, not to say pissed off, with their performance and quitter attitude.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Yeah, Togo's coach returned, perhaps too late for their team to get put back together.
The Togo player was sent off when he fouled (second yellow card) my boy Jisung in front of the penalty area. Then Lee Chunsoo put the free kick in the net. Ahn scored the winning goal in the 72nd minute, again with help from my boy Jisung. I knew he was special when I saw him play in the 2002 World Cup, so I was not surprised when Hiddink snatched him up and then he went over to Man U. He may not score many goals, but he is the backbone of the team.
Anyway, the send off and subsequent goal was the turning point. I have to say, though, while I'm happy that Korea pulled off a victory, I'm a little disappointed that they gave up on scoring another goal so easily. Whatever happened to the best defense being a good offense? Yeah, you always run the risk of getting caught out by Togo's speed on the counterattack, but it's not like Koreas was playing it safe by playing keep away in their own end--they made quite a few misses that almost cost them.
When Advocaat pulled Cho Jaejin and put in defender Kim Sangsik, I screamed, "Are you nuts?!" Putting Kim Sangsik in to strengthen to the defense is like drinking a liter of grain alcohol to sharpen your senses. He's such a liability you'd be better off just playing with ten.
Despite this win, I'm not too optimistic about Korea's chances for the remainder of group play. Togo was probably the easiest opponent of the entire tournament, and Korea barely managed to win. Their defense did not tighten up in the second half. The only reason Togo didn't score again was a combination of luck and the fact that Togo were down a man. Yeah, they caught Adebayoro offsides a few times, but Togo still had some real scoring chances. This does not bode well for when Korea faces more organized teams like Switzerland and France. Korea's only hope right now is a really good game against the Swiss, I think.
Now, back to our local doomsayer...
quote: WebShaman said:
There is a difference between a "prediction of Gloom and Doom" and the acceptance of reality.
Reality? The reality is this: the US played like crap against the Czechs and got beaten like stepchildren (my apologies to any actual stepchildren out here, but this time it fits). That's the only reality we have right now. Everything else is speculation. Speculation based on fairly good evidence, perhaps, but speculation nonetheless. In other words, there is still hope. Honestly, it's not likely at this point that the US is going to make it out of group play. But to just pack it up and go home after one loss, however tragic, is defeatist. When group play is over, then we can talk about reality.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-13-2006 17:20
quote:But to just pack it up and go home after one loss, however tragic, is defeatist. When group play is over, then we can talk about reality.
Unfortunately, I can't just "pack it up and go home" as I am here in Germany. I don't see it as defeatist. The group that the US got is a very tough group. Even if the US plays very well from here on in, it is not likely that they will be able to beat Italy. And that will mean the end.
I was hoping for a draw against Czech and a draw against Italy. That might have been enough to get the US through as second place.
Not going to happen now.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Unfortunately, I can't just "pack it up and go home" as I am here in Germany.
It was a figure of speech, my friend. It's not like I'll be packing up and going home when Korea eventually bows out either.
quote: WebShaman said:
Even if the US plays very well from here on in, it is not likely that they will be able to beat Italy. And that will mean the end.
Exactly. Not likely, but still possible, no? If and when the US loses against Italy, I will be completely prepared to face reality. But not before then.
Ian: if you need more than two Lotto numbers, you might be out of luck.
OK, folks. Enjoy the rest of today's matches. Unfortunately, the wife is not letting me watch the Switzerland-France game (our television is in our bedroom...). Time for bed.
I know it was a figure of speech - but you have to realize that the World Cup is being played here in Germany!
As you can imagine (because you remember how it was from the last one, right Suho?), things are different when they are happening where you are.
Oh, and a big congrats for S. Korea! A win is a win!
Well, yes, I see your point. What I meant by the figure of speech, though, was just a generic "giving up." But I can understand how it must be particularly frustrating for you over there. At least the US isn't in Germany's group, though, huh? That was killer in 2002, when the US had to play Korea. I was so relieved when they drew.
And yes, a win is a win, and Korea definitely needed one.
In other news, I wasn't able to watch the France-Switzerland or Brazil-Croatia matches, but I just took a look at the results... France drew against Switzerland... leaving Korea at the top of the group so far! Sure, their win was against Togo, and both France and Switzerland are probably going to beat Togo as well, but if Korea can pull out another win, they're guaranteed to go through!
Aargh... this is why I was disappointed that Korea didn't push for another goal against Togo. Let's say that, assuming French and Swiss wins against Togo, Korea loses against France and draws against Switzerland (a slightly optimistic scenario, to be perfectly honest). That would mean Korea and Switzerland would be tied for second place in points. What does it come down to after that? Goals! You can bet that Switzerland is not going to be satisfied with a one-goal victory over Togo, and the shaky Korean defense is going to have a hard time fending off the French forwards. Without another win, Korea is pretty much guaranteed not to advance.
Or maybe I'm being pessimistic. After all, France still doesn't seem to be back on track since their derailment last time around (they have scored a finals goal since 1998). Ah, but it all comes down to defense! The Korean defense is like a sieve, and you can bet the Swiss and French forwards are going to capitalize on that far more than the Togo forwards did. I just can't believe that Kim Sangsik and Kim Jingyu (or Lee Ho, for that matter) are the best we can come up with.
Still, gotta keep hope alive. We'll have to see how Korea do against France on the 18th. A crushing defeat would most likely finish them, but a strong outing could put them in a good frame of mind for the final match against Switzerland.
Spain V Ukraine - Ukraine to Win @ 4.33
Tunisia V Saudi Arabia - Tunisia to win @ 1.83
Germany V Poland - Germany to win @ 1.53
As long as Shevchanko plays I really like Ukraine's chances of beating a Spanish team that is famous for shitting the bed in International play.
I'm still disapointed about Croatia. I do think they were the better team today, and with a little more finish, they would have beaten the Brazilians handily.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-14-2006 06:59
Croatia was manhandled by Brazil. Croatia threw just about everything but the kitchen sink (not that it would have helped), and came up short - way short. To give credit where credit is due, Croatia did try their hardest - it just wasn't enough to beat a lazy Brazil. When shooting at the goal, it is wise NOT to shoot the ball directly at the Keeper - not that Croatia had all that many chances. Late in the second half, I thought that maybe Croatia would get one as they put everything into a last, final effort. It came up way short, and that took the rest out of the Croatian team apparently. One could almost see the desperation oozing out of the Croatians at the end.
Brazil just putted around the green, shot a goal, and then went home. Unspectacular but effective - a very unusual tactic for Brazil but I think in this case it threw Croatia so off it's game, that it actually worked.
I personally was pretty much shocked at the laid-back approach that Brazil played (and that is how they played) - but apparently it was how they wanted to play Croatia and it worked. God forbid that Brazil really tries in a game!
Anyway, Brazil is through as Group Winner IMHO. Even a "bad" Brazil is good enough to beat a very determined Croatia!
The France vs Switzerland game was....non-eventful. I think it was perhaps the best thing that S. Korea could have wished for. Both teams were sluggish, dull, and uninspiring. A fustrating, uneventful match. If they both play like that against S. Korea, well, good for S. Korea!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Don't discount the Swiss, France are clearly a more powerfull and experienced team, I think the Swiss did well to keep them at bay. It's a good result for them, and I'm looking forward to the Swiss V Korea game!
Just finished the Brasil Croatia game and have to say Croatia suprised me with their overal quality and lack of finishing. I didn't think much of them before this game but knew the Prso was a fine striker but the game showed opposite, quality everywhere except up front! I agree it was a shame they seemed to go straight at the keeper with every attempt on goal. I'm glad Croatia had Brasil first to give everyone else a tutorial in how to shut them down. Adriano, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Robinho, even Kaka who scored, they were not allowed to be dangerous.
I'm way behind and I think this is the first Cup since 90 that I will miss a game, I'm not going to be able to keep up the pace =(
I hear the Spain Ukraine game is not going so well for the Ukraine. I'ma go check that out
I caught the second half of the Spain-Ukraine game last night. I guess it didn't hurt that Ukraine was down a man, but Spain was just tearing them apart. And if I may segue into talking about my own team... that's exactly what Korea should have been doing to Togo when they had the one-man advantage: piling on the goals! Yeah, the France-Switzerland draw was the best possible result for Korea, but I'm not sure that Korea has what it takes to win against either of those teams (which is what they are going to need now to go through). I'll still be watching the match against France, but we're going to be in Japan during the match against Swizterland. It might be difficult to catch that one.
And in other news, the Spain-Ukraine result means that the US is no longer the tournament whipping boy.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-15-2006 07:59
Spain crushed Ukraine badly. It looks like Spain will easily win it's group.
I was not impressed by Tunesia vs Saudi Arabia. In that group, a draw is not good. Even though Ukrain got chewed apart, with the result from the Tunesia vs Saudi Arabia, they can keep their hopes alive. Sort of.
If there IS a life after a 4 - 0 loss
I was really shocked by the Germany vs Poland game!
To put things bluntly, Germany sucked. They certainly played better than Poland, but where was the offensive might that we saw against Costa Rica? It was really starting to look like a draw as the 90 minute mark rolled around (wow, that would have really changed things, eh?).
Now I am very interested to see how Ecuador does against Costa Rica!
Things are starting to heat up, and the next couple of days will give us a "rough" idea of who will be proceeding forwards, and who will not.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
ok, onto other things. quite a match today from Ecuador, and i'm interested to see if England and Sweden step up and play like they're capable of today. Spain put on a show but really wasn't tested, and I was surprised at the difficulty Brazil had with Croatia.
my money at this point is on the Czechs. the US did play just completely uninspired football in that match, but the Czechs looked sharp...great runs, overlapped well, solid defense. comparing them with Brazil, Argentina, and Spain i think they're the strongest so far. Brazil can always suddenly become unbeatable Brazil with a simple give-and-go that makes the other team look like amateurs, but i really haven't seen even the indication of that sort of play from them yet. i'm very curious to see their match against Australia (would love to see the Aussies go on a run) and hope that our boys from down under play at full strength rather than resting a few players with yellow cards as has been indicated, as far fetched as it sounds i don't think an upset is entirely out of the question.
as for my US team...ugh. I know we're not as strong as the rankings indicate, but that's the worst match i've seen from us in years. we just had no heart, no attacking instinct, no sense of urgency. through balls were practically not existent and we kept playing things backward. I'm praying to see a completely different team on saturday, we'll see how that goes...
Teams I think can win it based on what I've seen so far: Argentina, Brasil, Spain, Czech Republic, Germany. I'm including Brasil cuz you're dumb to ever count them out but they're at Germany at the bottom of my list of sides with the right stuff at the moment. Germany can always overachieve, Brasil can always underachieve Spain Argentina and Czechs look fantastic but Czechs may be injured out of the thing.
Best dark horse at the moment has to be Australia with Viduka, Cahill, Kewell and Hiddink, not hearing much about them, I think you will before they're back to AU. I had high hopes for the Saudis
after their qualifying run, they may still do something, but they're kinda like the US, qualifying well but from a weak federation.
The US HAS to do better on Saturday, I wanna go out swinging if we have to go out and I think they're on the right track to getting more done against the Italians. The Italians are easy to prepare for, you know what they're gonna do, and Arena's really good at getting the team prepared for an opponent, but coping with their quality at every position is gonna be the big challenge. Luca Toni is an animal and you can say the same about almost every position on the field for them. The main hurdle for the US is get over the obvious lack of confidence displayed against the Czechs and I believe they will. Bruce will make some serious changes and boys with things to prove will hit the ground running. I believe we'll at least give a good account Saturday.
I'd normally have the Italians in my favs, just like Germany, as they both always seem to find a way to go farther, farther than they have a right to sometimes, but I'm not sure the other teams in the field aren;'t just that much better. Now watch the Italians win it all
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-15-2006 23:29
Ok, a very interesting day of games!
England did what it had to do - very nice! I think England is improving it's game. I wonder if they will have what it takes to beat Germany?
Sweden did a Germany, and squeeked by Paruguay. It is looking more and more like it will be England and Sweden in that group, with England emerging as Group Winner.
I predict that Ecuador will trounce Germany, 2 - 0. Ecuador is playing very well, indeed. Germany is...well, I think the game against Poland says it all - they are getting worse, not better. They barely managed to get a goal against Poland. Ecuador is leading that group, having played the very same opponents that Germany has.
I think that is more than telling.
However, Germany did win (and are through irregardless to the next level) and that means that they will be playing England, most probably. That will be an interesting match! (and the rivalry between those two soccer nations is legendary!). I will wait until the result of the Ecuador vs Germany game before I decide the England vs Germany game.
I also believe that Ecuador will send Sweden home. However, we will have to wait until the result of the Ecuador vs Germany game before that becomes more probable or not.
Argentina has shown the best form so far, no doubt about it. If it continues (god forbid they get even better! ), then look out! I want to see how they do against Holland before making any further predictions about them.
Spain looks like it is in good form. Could very definitely be a contender, especially if they continue to improve.
As much as I like the Aussies, Brazil will win easily. The main problem against Brazil is, is that they are ALL good!
So, if one or more are not performing, in comes some others. No other team has this much talent to choose from. I predict Brazil winning this WC as well, unless they decide that they really only came to Germany to drink German bier and visit the legal brothels Brazil certainly has the talent and game to be WC again, if they really want it. The real question is, do they really want it?
The next couple of days will conclude most of the winners and losers of the group matches.
I am not looking forward to seeing US vs Italy I just hope the US boys try this time. Maybe even score. That would be nice.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
quote: WebShaman said:
Argentina has shown the best form so far, no doubt about it. If it continues (god forbid they get even better! ), then look out!
Messi and Tevez are still riding the pine
Ingerlund looked scared today, Owen specifically. They don't look confident, England expects and the players clearly feel the weight of those expectations. They need to solve their problem in the middle with Gerrard and Lampard, I'm not certain they should be on the field together. Sit Frank and bring in Carrick. I simply couldn't pick a winner between England and Germany right now, England has quality but they're not shining or confident. The Germans are as ever, looking untalented but winning everytime. Typical. Slight edge to the Germans.
I've yet to see Ecuador play but am really happy to hear they're doing well, they've produced a few players I've really admired over the years. I'm going to download their match now.
Brasil came to play, worry ye not. Except maybe Ronaldo. He did nothing against Croatia, I can't believe he'll start another match, but he probably will.
Believe it or not, but I have been paying attention to the rest of the tournament.
Haven't been too impressed with the home team, to be honest. Nor with England. I was expecting both to do more. I like the Czechs to go far as well, and I will be cheering for Australia to advance.
Ecuador have been looking very good--defintely the best in their group, in my opinion. Spain, having so thoroughly crushed Ukraine, will most likely have clear sailing through the rest of their group matches. Saudi Arabia is not a team to be ignored (they qualified ahead of Korea), but I've seen them play quite a bit, and they are really no match for Spain. Let's see, who else? Some heartfelt play from the underdogs in group D, but unless Mexico and Portugal really blow it, they'll go through.
Of course, my heart really lies with groups E and G. I think I said above that I wasn't going to be staying up (or getting up) to watch the US-Italy match, but at the time I was still stinging from the 3-0 loss to the Czechs. Now I'm not sure. Do I get up at four in the morning and risk sitting in front of the television with a look of dazed horror on my face once again, or do I sleep in and risk missing an inspiring and heroic performance? My brain says that the former is more likely, but my heart wants to believe the latter? Arggh... this is so tough. I'll be getting up at four the next day anyway to watch the crucial Korea-France match, so maybe I should just adjust my sleep schedule early...
And speaking of Korea-France... I hate to jinx them, but I think my boys can pull it off. Not that they necessarily will (and let's face it, the odds are against them), but that they can. France--especially the France playing in this World Cup, is not out of their reach. I just hope they don't start with the jitters again, otherwise they might give up an early goal. It will be a lot harder to come back against France, especially if they have all eleven men on the field. Korea really needs to score first, and as soon as possible.
OK, you all must be sick of hearing me going on like this. I'll shut up. For now.
So... England have managed to drag themselves into the next stage with two shaky looking wins. I am of course delighted with the results but I would have liked a better performance all round from the team. I don't think they are the full artical yet.
I agree with Jason and Suho's comments on the England performance. Lampard and Gerrard are two of the highest scoring midfield players in the Football League, to leave them stuck in the centre of the pitch is a waste. Although is was great to see Rooney playing again I thought Lennon playing on the right wing had a much greater effect on the game.
A lot of the talk here has been who will England meet in the next round, Equador or Germany? I have been very impressed with Equador they look a very powerful side and while the Germans have not been impressive, they know how to play well against England. Either team will be hard to beat in the knockout stage.
Suho, I think S.Korea have a great chance to get into the knockout stage on Sunday. France look like they don't believe and SK should exploit that to the full.
Saturday, I see is crunch day for the USA too against Italy. I missed most of the last Italian match so I have no feel for how they might perform. I do know that they can be rattled as a team even with so many excellent individuals on show.
So much more to say and so little time We have three live matches a day plus at least two hours in the evening of highlights...I'm in footie heaven...
I want to say how much I have enjoyed reading through this thread after being away a couple of days, I hope I can keep up now that I am back. "Jinglenuts" has to be my word of the week
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-16-2006 15:52
Wow! Argentina is really putting the cleats to Serbia-Montenegro!
Mah gawd! 3 - 0 in the first half!
Argentina is just looking good, folks!
I saw the Italy vs Ghana. Italy did well, considering. At times, Ghana was dangerous, but Italy handled them. I think Italy will make it to the next round.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Yeah, I missed the last Italy match as well, so I have no read on them either. I'm hoping they're not at the top of their game.
And in other news... is anyone else watching the Argentina-Serbia and Montenegro match? Now that's some beautiful football! Argentina is on fire (leading 3-0 at the half)! They might not have been in full form against Cote d'Ivoire, but they certainly are on their game tonight. On the other side of the pitch, it doesn't look like Serbia has really come to play, which is interesting, seeing as how they face elimination. I predict more goals by Argentina in the second half. I think we might even see a 5-0 score.
Well, I've decided: I'll be up to watch the Italy-US match. Hope to see other US fans here at the half for celebration or commiseration (because somehow I just don't expect a draw at the half).
That was a beautiful half to watch, wasn't it? Poetry in motion!
I certainly hope Italy doesn't make it to the next round, because I don't see the Czechs collapsing for two losses. I still have them in the first spot. My only hope is that the US will be able to put it together against Italy. Even if they do that, though, they still have to beat Ghana, which is by no means certain. I suppose we'll find out one way or the other soon enough. Are you going to be watching the Italy-US match?
Just settling down to watch the second half now, the first half was great for Argentina, I agree WS, they are looking good. I wonder if S&M are into S&M because they are really getting a whipping in the game so far
Good to hear you are going to watvh the USA match live Suho I'll be here with a soothing balm if it's needed at half time.
That was the most awesome display of football I have seen so far. When I said we might see a 5-0 score, I thought I was erring on the side of too many goals. But 6-0? Argentina simply dominated that game.
I was psyched when Messi came in, and he certainly did not disappoint. Best match so far (although I'm sure S&M fans will disagree).
Tao: Hopefully the balm won't be needed. But moral support is always welcome.
And now, gentlemen, it is time for bed. From now on, my World Cup schedule changes from going to sleep very late to waking up very early. This should be fun.
Whoa! 6 - 0 I think we just may have another contender for World Cup favourite. Not just because of the goal tally but the confident passing game and talent on show.
oh nooooo, a whole hour to wait till the next match. I think I may watch the video of Liverpool (my team) winning this years FA Cup, to fill the void.
Netherlands v Ivory Coast next. I think the Dutch should get going in this match and clinch qualification.
I'm glad the supporter is back! U-S-A I'll see you guys at half if I can swing a puter, I'm going over to a friend's to watch, fairly certain he's a got a wireless connection.
Glad to have seen Shrek get some minutes and not come off injured worse! I hope he gets to full fitness and form in this tournament, an England with a fit Rooney and a sorted central midfield is a very strong and capable team. Sven's got work to do and I'm sure he has the stones or imagination to do it I feel sorry for Owen, him leaving his beloved Liverpool marked the beginning of a downhill slide for him that's yet to get going back up. I believe he left for very noble reasons and has been getting nothing but screwed since doing so, he's clearly not the confident player he once was and that's a heartbreaker. I was hoping this WC was his road back to good vibes!
This is the first WC since 90 that I've not caught every single match live or same day, this is absolutely killing me!
I'm pleased to read that Argentina is showing their class and Messi got on. I'll download this one. Did Tevez get on?
For those that don't know Carlitos, oh my, he's the ugliest footballer on the planet. Poor guy, have a look if you dare. If he can get some playing time I'm sure in a year or two, like Ronaldinho, everyone will quit talking about his unfortunate area above his shoulders and focus on the smile and the skills. At least Ronaldinho has a neck.
JK... those pictures of Tevez are hilarious (maybe moreso because of the titles). If you forgot the area above his shoulders, though, he's beautiful to watch.
Didn't get to see the Holland match, and probably won't be able to pick it up later, seeing as how busy I am going to be for the next few days (going away on a trip--right in the middle of the World Cup!).
I just finished the Argentina game and have to add my "whoas" to the crowd's: Whoa! Nicely done against an S&M side that's not crap by a long shot. It was said that Dejan Stankovich kicked his tv set after seeing the draw, rightly so! The BBC commentator said there was 24 passes in the build up to Cambiasso's goal, if that's anywhere near correct it's gotta be the famous Brasilian team gaol finished by Carlos Alberto by a mile, that'll be a classic WC goal shown for years to come. I think Tevez nutmegged *2* people before slotting his, the second was questionable but the first was definite, close to ube classic as well.
That is correct about the 24 passes. After the game was over and they were showing highlights here, they had a counter in the lower-right hand corner of the screen that counted each pass. Sure enough, 24 passes by the end. It was insane! I've got to see if I can find someplace to download that match so I can watch it again.
Less than six hours to destiny! I guess I'd better get to bed so I can wake up in time. See you guys then.
oooh Ghana Czech match hopefully brings to light the ratio of skills/tactics/technique/fitness to attitude/fortitude... Group E is showing the world that belief and passion matter big time
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-17-2006 20:34
GHAAAANAAAA!
Man, that was SWEEEEEET!
Now the US Boys just have to play! Even if they lose, if they can make 2 goals, then it is possible for them to still get to the next round, if they can beat Ghana.
Czech is going home (UNLESS US accomplishes the impossible and actually wins against Italy). They have no Stormers (offensive) to field against Italy now. All have been yellowcarded and have to sit out.
Even a loss to Italy does not mean the end of US chances. If they get enough Goals and manage to beat Ghana...
Wow.
GO USA!!!!
PS : If they f**k this chance up, I am going to be really, really pissed off!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
How ironic that the first goal by Italy was scored by a diving header, considering how the free kick was given...
But USA has just tied it, and an Italy Red-Card immediately after. USA looks much stronger than last game, I'd say so far they look better than Italy even.
Flippin' heck, what a game. I'm really enjoying it with just the 10 men on each side now it could go anyway. McBride looks like he is totally up for it too.
I think there is a lot more to come out of this game. If the Italians score first they will play defensive and hit on the counter. The USA HAVE to get their offside ploy worked out to the inch for set plays... great game
Goodness. I was definitely not expecting Ghana to win that one.
As for the US-Italy match, is it just me, or is the referee whistle happy? Every time a player falls down (usually Italy), it's a foul. Yeah, I understand that Italy's speed on the attack forced the US to foul a lot at first, but there were just too many fouls called.
The red cards: I think the Mastroeni send off was a bit extreme, but I suppose it is consistent with this referee's style. Obviously I'm not too happy about losing the man advantage.
Now that the sides are even again, I wonder if the US can pull this off. We might be able to play Italy to a draw, but we haven't shown that we can actually score a goal.
My first impression was that our passing sucks, so I was quite surprised to see a graphic that showed the US passing success rate as higher than Italy's (this was before the red cards). I can only assume that while we may have a higher passing success rate, our passing efficiency sucks. A lot of our attacking passes seemed to be behind the recipients, forcing them to pull back.
I'm not really sure how to read this now. Up until Mastroeni's send off, I was pretty confident that we could pull something out of the hat. Now that the sides are even again, I don't know. Like I said, I'm not convinced that we can actually score a goal. I would love to be proven wrong, though, especially since another goal and a win against Ghana would mean we go through (I'm just going by what WS said above--it's five o'clock in the morning now and way too early for maths).
Great heart by the US side in the second half, especially being down a man. Great work by Keller in the net. We definitely had some chances, and I think we got robbed at least once (the incredibly blatant handling foul in the penalty area that wasn't called--what was up with that?).
So now we need to beat Ghana, and Italy needs to beat the Czech Republic. Not impossible, but we still have yet to score a goal. It really would have been nice to have a win against Italy, but apparently it was not in the cards.
Oh yeah... and I almost forgot I had this sig... (just pretend is says 2006 )
I have all my voice left. Since my wife was asleep beside me, I had to watch the match in complete silence. That was rough.
Yeah, I was kind of miffed about Beasley's goal... did McBride actually touch the ball? I thought he let it go. I'm a bit fuzzy on the new offside rule. I thought that you weren't offside unless you actually touched the ball? How exactly does it work?
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-17-2006 23:03
Yup, for a 1 - 1, we need to beat Ghana, and Italy needs to beat Czech.
Italy beating Czech looks pretty good - Czech has no offensive players (Stormers) left that can play because they are all yellowcarded.
US beating Ghana? It is in the cards, looking at how the US played against Italy.
They just need to SCORE!
Of course, Czech might beat Italy anyway.
Then the US can still win, if they get enough Goals to outscore Italy. Since Itally has 3, we need to score 3 more (we had too many goals scored against us to win with an even goal standing). If we can score 3 goals against Ghana, and Italy scores none against Czech, then we would squeek by as well.
The whole thing is still open!!!!!!!!
Thanks to Ghana and the US!!!!
WOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-17-2006 23:05
Apparently you are offsides if the ball is touched by your side and you are closer to the opponents goal as any other opposing player at that time.
That made McBride offsides, even though he was nowhere near Beas and it wouldn't have made a bit of difference.
quote:Offsides in Soccer
Offsides in soccer is determined when the ball is kicked rather than when the player receives the ball. In order to be offsides, a player must be on their attacking half of the field, be involved in the play, and be closer to the goal line than the ball and any of the opposing team's players. Offsides does not apply on corner kicks, throw ins, and goal kicks. If offsides is called, the opposing team gets a free kick wherever the offsides player was when he was offsides. If the player is level with his last opponent, he is not offsides.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Hmm... so in other words, the rule is the same, it's just the timing (i.e., when they enforce it) that's different? Because they used to just blow the whistle as soon as a player went offside. I am confused. Oh well.
I think Italy can beat the Czech Republic, although I think the Czechs will be playing with a lot more heart next time, what with elimination on the line and all. I don't know if the US can beat Ghana, though. I think we played well against Italy today, but can we actually score? Maybe we can just bounce some balls off Ghana's defenders.
[Edit: Ah, I replied before you put that quote in. Yeah, that's the offside rule as I have always understood it, but he announcers keep talking about how it's been changed. And I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one case this time around where a goal was scored even though an attacking player was offside (but nowhere near the play). Or maybe that was just my imagination. Whatever the case, McBride had to lift up his leg to let the ball go through, and he was quite offside, so that's a shame.]
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-18-2006 00:51
Errr...McBride was NOWHERE near the ball!
What are you talking about?
Beas nailed that ball and it soared into the net - McBride was way forwards, on the far-left side of the net - he was not even remotely part of the play.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
GAH! That was awful, the ref had such a massive influence on the game, and the fouling I guess. The ref wasn't completely out of hand, De Rossi HAD to go and I'd be suprised if he doesn't at least get a 4 game ban, I'd like to see him on a flight home. Mastroeni was foolish to go in like that with this ref and the reffing so far in this WC. His tackle was 50/50 odds, depending on the ref, for a red in a NORMAL game. Pope's sending off was injustice, his first yellow was completely bogus, Gila fouled Pope, they got up off the ground and Pope got the yellow. Idiot.
That said, blah, crippled our ability to make tactical subs and really forced a draw. We had the beating of the Italians but fortune smiled not.
I don't think we can beat Ghana. I would absolutely love it and I expect an hellacious effort but I don't believe we have any advantage I can think of. Ghana showed spirit today, they've shown the ability to play diffrent systems and applying pressure in different areas and their coach seems to get things right. Add to the brains and spirit, they've got size, speed, endurance and quality. Every way I can think of that Arena might line up against them I think they have the squad to nullify, without making a sub.
Thena gain maybe today's performance by Ghana was a fluke and we'll pick them apart
This is WC, anything can happen
edit: we can beat Ghana by imploding them. THey'll fancy their odds now. They'll think they're right to move through. If we can get stuck in and have a ref that's allows a man's game to be played, we could pester and irritate the Ghanains into a frustrated self-destructive mob. Ah well, we have til THursday to figure this out, I'd start a psych press campaign tho
WS: Must have been the angle I saw on the replay. When the shot first went in, I didn't see McBride, but on the replay it looked like he was in front of the ball and moved out of the way so it could go in. That's the image that stuck in my mind. Bad angle for judging, I suppose.
Jason: totally agree about the officiating. As Dan pointed out above, the foul that led to Italy's goal was bogus as well. What a bunch of crap.
And then, somewhere in the second half, the referee suddenly decided to stop calling fouls every minute. It was like he was keeping track and thinking, "Hmm... if I keep this up we're going to have over fifty fouls this match. I'd better stop being such a whimsical prick."
I mean, come on... 37 fouls?! The game wasn't anywhere close to warranting that many. And forget about Pope's red (although I agree that De Rossi had to go--there was no way around that one).
I definitely thought we could take three points from this one... very frustrating. We're going to have to put together some real magic to beat Ghana. Let's pray the imploding strategy works.
ar, missed the offside controversy, it's no controversy, it was offside
McBride could have been deemed to have been in a "passive offside" position but in order for the referee to judge it as passive he would have to be not "interfering with play" and it was arguable that he was interfering just by his position, possibly screening the keeper. For the 30% of refs that would have let it go in that case the little flick or jump that McBride tried hen the ball came to him sealed the deal, there was no way you could argue that he wasn't interfering with play by his position or action in my view.
If he hadn't been in the wrong place at the wrong time it would have been a goal tho, I don't think he altered Buffon's play at all by being there, Buffon just missed it. So it was a moral victory, too bad they don't award points for those!
Side note, was glad to see Beasley a little apsrkier, he was a whipped puppy after the Czech game offering is own head to the media saying he was doubtful to start the Italy game. Arena flatly denied the notion at his post game press conference when asked if Beasley was out against Italy. Then hte reported gave him the quote from Beasley I was glad to see him get back in and make an impact. Much less impact than he had 4 years ago but much better than the Czech game.
Any Ducthmen in here know if Beasley's been playing starting football for PSV since Hiddink left? I assume by his recent form the answer is no but I haven't kept up with the Eredivisie for years now.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-18-2006 02:26
I still have NO idea what you both are talking about! The scenes that I saw, McBride was NOWHERE near Beasley (and was over 30 meters from the ball when it was shot to the goal and went in, despite the efforts of the Italian goalkeeper).
They did examine it many times here in Germany - and they were just as puzzled as I am as to why that was offsides.
*shrugs*
Oh well.
Still, 1 - 1 is respectful (especially considering that we have never beaten Italy - 7 losses and now 3 draws).
We just need to squeek by Ghana. It is going to be hard - they are also highly motivated.
But Italy has shown that they can be beaten.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Yeah, I agree with all the sendings off apart from Pope's, he should not have gone. It is time though that all the teams realised that the refs will not tolerate two footed tackles and "uncontrolled" sliding tackles. I would also like FIFA and the refs to remember that this is a Mans contact game after all.
McBride was offside, even if he did not touch the ball, and I think he did, he was in front of the Italian goalkeeper and affecting play.
The Offside Rule is a bit tricky to get to know, especially if you have not played football. Basically, when attacking, you must be at the same level or in front of the player in defence AS the ball is passed to you.
It's going to tough to get out of that group to the next round but it is still possible.
I'm looking forward to the Australia v Brazil game next. I like the Aussie team and would like to see them go on to the next stage, but I also love Brazil and want them performing their art in the knockout stage too. Great I can support both teams
[edit] Nah WS McBride was right in front of the goalie, not 30 yards away. here is the BBC report on the match, and perhaps the event is covered in the virtual replay on this page
I'll leave that last link in but I'm not too sure that it shows there. This page has lots of links to clips and has a video of the highlights, alough I have not watched the video myself.
Yes, I'm extremely hopeful for the ozzies, I love the way Kewell and Viduka play, they're fairly burly men, esp Viduka, but they are silky smooth. They've got a decent team hat plays a very positive game. And whoooooooo's the manager...? Yup yup, genious, Hiddink. I think they'll make Brasil sweat or get beaten like red-headed step children If they listen to the manager he'll have a plan that will work, but Viduka and Co aren't the passive hardworking Korean side that will execute the boss' plan without questioning it I don't think. Hopefully they see the wisdom of taking the field as a body with only one head! If they do Brasil will have to break them down with some intelligence in addition to their blinding skills and imagination.
edit: Tao, for some reason WS is referring to McBride's proximity to Beasley.
WS: Still not sure what you're talking about. I have no idea how far McBride was from Beasley, but I do know that he was standing right in front of the net and flicked up his leg when the ball went by.
Oh, and just for the record: I understand the offside rule fine. Never had a problem with it before. The only reason I mentioned it is that the Korean announcers keep mentioning that it has been changed. I asked my father-in-law about it, and he said he heard the same thing. Basically, what we heard was this: offside is only called when a player involved in the play is offside. That is, if an offside player is on the other side of the field from the play, then offside might not be called. I say "might" because apparently this is not the way it is done most of the time. But both my father-in-law and I saw the same game where an attacking player was blatantly offside yet not part of the play, so the goal counted. The Korean announcers used the above rationale to explain the situation. It has occurred to me, though, that the refs just blew the call and the Korean announcers made up this explanation--although that sounds unlikely. Then again, a sudden change to the offside rule also seems rather unlikely.
So, someone tell me that everything is the way it has always been and I'll be happy.
Jason: yep, I'm rooting for the Aussies as well. I would love to see them upset Brazil (likelihood of said upset happening aside, of course).
Next up: Korea v. France! Woohoo! Praying for a win here.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-18-2006 11:56
No, you all must be talking abut another scene, then (though I can't imagine which one).
McBride was far, far to the lefthand side of the gaol area (about 10 meters) - nowhere near the goal, really. They viewed it here in Germany multiple times and with the simulated 3D computer animation from the atcual footage.
No offsides.
He was never near the ball that Beas shot, and lifting a leg or not would have made absolutely no difference as McBride was nowhere near the ball, the goal, or Beas for that matter. McBride was also covered by a defender, and was only minimally before that opponent.
Oh well, I am not going to argue the point. I do know that it was discussed more than a few times here, especially after the game. As Germany has the best coverage there is of the games (due to them getting most of the good places to take video footage from as it is their home grounds), I tend to rely on what they are saying.
Anyway, it wasn't counted irregardless, and the games go on!
Japan vs Croatia - this is going to be a very, very interesting match! I am going to go with Japan on this one!
Brazil vs Australia - Brazil will win. The question is, by how much? I suppose that depends somewhat on the Aussies. I would like to see the Aussies score! That would be cool.
France vs S. Korea - this is going to be one HELL of a game, IMHO! I am rooting for the Koreans! Go Go Korea!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Suho, I've heard the same thing about the new offside rules too. Also, a search on Wikipedia reveals this:
quote:A player in an offside position is only committing an offside offence if, "at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team", the player is in the referee's opinion involved in active play by: interfering with play; interfering with an opponent; or gaining an advantage by being in that position.
Determining whether a player is in "active play" can be complex. A player is not committing an offside offence if the player receives the ball directly from a throw-in, goal kick or corner kick.
FIFA World Cup issued new guidelines for interpreting the offside law in 2003 and these were incorporated in law 11 in July 2005. The new wording seeks to more precisely define the three cases as follows:
Interfering with play means playing or touching the ball passed or touched by a teammate.
Interfering with an opponent means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or movements or making a gesture or movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent.
Gaining an advantage by being in an offside position means playing a ball that rebounds to him off a post or crossbar or playing a ball that rebounds to him off an opponent having been in an offside position.
Well there you have it. Thanks, HZR! It's good to know I'm not going crazy. Although I will say that the officials seem to be very selective in enforcing these new guidelines.
WS: Like I said, I only saw it while it was happening (meaning not very well) and then one replay afterward, so it is possible that I didn't get the whole picture. But like you said, it was counted anyway (pisser), and the games do go on. Hopefully so will the US, at least until they face Brazil in the Round of 16 and cremated.
Approximately 7.5 hours before the Korea-France match... maybe I'll get to bed earlier tonight and get more than four hours of sleep.
I have to say, when you wake up at four o'clock in the morning, the days sure do get long. It's only half past eight now and it feels like the middle of the night.
I like getting up at that time myself Suho just to hear the morning chorus, I'm presuming that there is a morning chorus in S Korea too
On to todays matches:
Japan v Croatia - Have played each other twice with a win apiece although the most recent was in the 1998 WC. I am going to go with Croatia in this match but not for any footballing reasons STS, as I have none. I'm just busy writing letters and emails to as many "influential" parties as I can stating my disgust that the Japanese are planning on resuming the slaughter of whales.
Actually I've just heard that we just defeted the bid to resume but only just. Japan defeated in new whaling bid
Back to footie
Brazil v Australia - Played five matches previously, with Brazil winning three to Australia's one with one game drawn. My heart is torn here. Brazil embody all that I love about football while the Aussies have given us Cahill, Kewell, Viduka, "Prisoner Cell Block H" and Skippy.
France v S. Korea - Played twice with France winning on both occasions. last time in 2002 in a friendly. I'm with WS and Suho here. Digging around my HD's for that photo of Suho with the red bandana on supporting SK
Gosh the time..........
[doh]Alt Sig[/doh]
Another great game, there is no shame in that loss. The Aussies did very well in containing Brasil (I'm spelling it with an "s" now) for as long as they did. Poor Ronaldo looks like something is playing on his mind, he only managed to spark once or twice. It was almost like Brasil were playing with ten men for the first half.
Just enough time to get some food before the France SK match in half an hour.
at my folks house in the middle of nowhere for the weekend so i'm only on dial-up, hence the delayed response.
the US match...wow. we showed heart, and despite the ref's best attempts to take us out of the match we hung in. it's also worth noting that the post-game commentary here mentioned that same ref had been suspended in 2002 along with several other officials for "inconsistency" and that he did not referee in the 2002 tournament due to that.
one thing i didn't understand, WHY did we not use our last sub (when the Italians had none) and bring in Eddie Johnson for an obviously exhausted McBride in the last 15 minutes or so?
so we need the win against Ghana...they looked very sharp against the czechs, even a bit brazillian at times as my brother observed. should be a great match, and i have to figure out how to watch it or avoid the score as i'll be at work right after it starts...argh.
good effort from the aussies today, i was pulling for them but their chances just kept missing. Brazil, however, looks beatable, especially on a strong effort from team like Argentina or Spain IMO.
France v Korea about to start, could be a fun one...
Well, our boys are down 1-0 at halftime. I don't think Korea looks too bad, though. The defensive breakdown that led to the Henry goal was unfortunate, but hey, it's Henry--you can't expect the man to be silent forever. And you know that France is really going to be pushing for a win here.
Still, 1-0 is not bad for that much pressure in the first half. Korea has the upper hand in terms of stamina, so if they can stay solid at the start to the second half I think they have a chance to at least pull even. Look for Ahn to come in at some point during the second half. I'd like to see Park Juyong come in as well.
It would have been nice to go into halftime scoreless, but Korea has a history of coming from behind, so this game is far from over.
Other matches...
Didn't see the Australia-Brazil match, so I can't comment, but I was hoping that Australia would be able to pull something out of their hats. Still, with a Japan-Croatia draw, they're not in too bad a position.
for Tao: Red Devils (pics from the 2002 World Cup)
Everyone's up in arms about the remaining sub that wasn't used, Arena says he wanted to leave McBride in because he was playing great defense and didn't want to change anything while it going like they needed it to go. Fair enough I guess.
Halftime with France Korea, too rather lacklustre teams, not living up to either's potential.
Suho.. is it true that the orange tinted kits are a grateful nod to the Dutch/Hiddink?
WS: I don't think Korea are doing that badly, considering. I'm guessing that you haven't seen a lot of Korea matches. Well, Korea is not usually that strong in the first half. It's usually a case of "hold on until the second half and then put something together." Of course, this doesn't always work. I'm hoping they'll be able to pull something off today.
Still, the early goal by Henry was disappointing. Lee saved another certain goal to keep the score close, though, so I'm not too upset at the moment. We Korea fans know to wait until the second half to pass judgment. Let's hope it's a good one!
France scored, this doesn't mean they're anywhere close to "back". Henry MAkalele and THuram are world class, and TRezeguet if DomenICK would put him on... they don't have a great team tho, not sure their coach isn't insane as well
I rather like the idea of the Korean fitness overtaking the french in the 2nd half
pardon the laptop typing skills =\
edit: Suho, I'm sure you're not watching this on ABC but hey keep cutting to the Staples Center where they are showing hte match to the audience of, well apparently, the whole of Korea Town It's like the red devils are everywheres.
edit2: minute 80, 20,000 in he Staples Center go nuts as PArk equalizes! 1-1 w00t! k0r34!
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-18-2006 22:56
WOW!
Despite things, an exciting match.
I am sorry to see Zidane go like that - he is truly one the greats.
Or was, as the case may be.
France will have to defeat Togo without him.
Korea got the goal they desperately needed, but...
Will it be enough? I just can't shake the nagging feeling that Korea could have done better in the first half - and I feel they waited much too long in the second.
A win was in, IMHO.
However, a 1 - 1 is a good result for Korea.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Yes! A draw with France! Oh ye of little faith, have I not told you that the boys in red would wear them out?
Honestly, it was looking pretty bleak for a while there. Korea came out strong in the beginning of the half, but then France went on the attack and I wondered if we'd ever get momentum back. I thought Ahn came in a little late, but it turned out to be pretty good timing. Park Jisung, by the way, has been my fave ever since the last WC, when he scored against Portugal (a goal that ultimately helped keep Portugal out of the Round of 16). You can imagine how psyched I was to see him score the equalizer! Of course, my wife was awake, so the screaming commenced.
Jason: yeah, that was Lee's second critical save. When I saw Henry all alone like that I thought it was going in for sure.
And we don't get ABC over here, but you should see the Seoul city center. 20,000 is peanuts.
WS: I had similar thoughts when Henry first scored. After such a long drought, I was afraid that it would open the dam and let the flood waters loose. But the Korean defense was surprisingly strong (considering how weak they've been in that area lately).
Anyway, great game. No doubt that France is the better team, and they really dominated the midfield, but Korea played with heart and came through in the end.
[Edit:
quote:
Will it be enough? I just can't shake the nagging feeling that Korea could have done better in the first half - and I feel they waited much too long in the second.
A win was in, IMHO.
I'll say it again: Korea is not the strongest of first half teams. No one here was expecting that Korea would score first. I think the hope was that we would hold them scoreless in the first half and then score in the second half. That's how Korea usually win their games--by scoring more in the second half than their opponent does in the first half.
I think we we're very fortunate to get a draw. There was talk before the match of the possibility of Korea beating France, but to be perfectly honest that would have been a major upset. Everything is on the line for France, and they came to play today. Had Lee been a little less diligent in net, we could have been blown out of the water. I don't think Korea played their very best game today, but they played well. Even at their best, I think they would have been hard-pressed to win.
Still, like you said, a draw is a good result. They started a lot stronger than they did against Togo, and I think they've got some confidence now.]
Phew, what a (footballin') day that was Group G still has some surprises to came. From what I've heard so far, Togo may refuse to play Monday unless they get paid, and by paid they mean cash in the bank, see here.
Yeah, they are the pictures I was searching for Suho thanks, I remember them now.
Football huh, it's a funny old game. I've got to get some sleep zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzz
Yeah, I remember hearing that about the Togo side. On the one hand, I can understand wanting to get paid, but on the other hand... well, let's just say that the news was met with dumbfounded stares in Korea, where patriotism runs as thick as kimchi. I honestly believe that the Korean side would play even if they got paid nothing. Even if the government, in some wild fit on insanity, decided not to pay for their traveling expenses, etc., the Korean people would pull together and raise the money for them--and it would probably take only a few hours. To an outsider, Korean solidarity can even be a little frightening. If you think Americans are patriotic, you've obviously never met a Korean.
So, yeah, no Korean I have spoken to has the slightest clue of how to even begin trying to fathom what Togo threaten(ed) to do.
Jason: The orangey kits... I honestly don't know. I thought their kits last time around were decent, but each time they seem to move further and further away from true red, all the way saying "this is redder than the last time." The best I can figure it, they're slowly migrating through the spectrum. Expect them to be yellow about twenty years from now.
Some more thoughts on the Korea-France match (if I may be humored)....
The mood here in Korea before the match was a bit odd. By that I mean people talked about winning, and everyone knew that winning was indeed a possibility, but I don't think anyone really expected to win. At around the 75th minute, the Korean announcer said something to the effect of "Well, we've still got Switzerland ahead of us and are currently at the top of the group, so being behind 1-0 to France isn't that bad for us." I think he meant a number of things. Firstly, considering how much pressure France put on (especially in the midfield) and the almost complete lack of Korean scoring chances, we were lucky to only be down by one. It could have easily beeen two or three to nil by that point. Secondly, even if Korea lost, it didn't mean elimination. Perhaps that's a somewhat defeatist attitude, but Korean fans are used to seeing their side take things down to the wire. Honestly, I'm not sure if the country would have known what to do with itself had they clinched a berth in the Round of 16 after only two games--and all on their own, at that. Korean tournament appearances are always nail-biters.
That's why I was so psyched about the draw (and also because it looked like we were going to lose, and because the goal was scored by my favorite player). Working out possible scenarios is pretty much a national pastime here (considering that it always goes down to the wire), so I decided to work them out for myself. There are three matches left, each with three possible outcomes, but obviously not all of those 27 permutations matter. The following are the ones that matter. NOTE: Skip the following if you do not like maths and long, drawn-out (and mostly pointless) hypothetical discussions.
For starters, if Korea can win against Switzerland, it doesn't matter what happens in the other matches--Korea will finish first in the group.
If Korea draws against Switzerland, though, things get tricky. If France and Switzerland both beat Togo (which is the most likely scenario), we are left with three teams with five points. It will come down to goals, and this is most likely where Korea's relatively poor showing against Togo will come back to haunt them. The first tie-breaker is goal differential, and a draw with Switzerland will leave Korea at +1. France and Switzerland both stand at zero, so it will come down to how they do against Togo. You can bet they're going to be beating the ever-living crap out of the poor Togo side--and not playing keep away for the last fifteen minutes of the match. If there is still a tie it will go down to total goals scored. Basically, Korea would go through if France beat Togo by only one goal and scored no more than one goal more than the number of goals Korea score in their hypothetical draw with Switzerland or if Switzerland score no more than two goals more than this number in their match against Togo. After total goals scored it comes down to head-to-head results, but all three teams will have drawn against each other, so it would go down to drawing lots (which would suck).
But what if Togo win one of their remaining matches? Let's say Togo beat Switzerland tonight. That would put them in second place in the group with three points. If France win against Togo, they would go to five points to tie Korea (remember, we're still talking about the hypothetical draw against Switzerland in the final match). In this scenario, France and Korea would both go through, with the order depending on goal differential. If Togo loses to Switzerland and beats France, then Korea would go through with Switzerland. If Togo beats both Switzerland and France, Korea would go through in second place behind Togo.
Togo draws would also help Korea. A draw against Switzerland would mean the Swiss finish with three draws and be eliminated, and Korea would go through with either Togo or France, depending on the result of the match between those two sides. A Togo draw against France would have pretty much the opposite effect (i.e., Korea would go through with Switzerland).
But do I see any of these rather complex scenarios happening? No, not really. Obviously we'll have a better idea of how things stand after tonight's match between Togo and Switzerland, but if Korea draws against Switzerland their chances of advancing are slim. What if Korea loses to Switzerland? Well, that would leave them with four points and a goal differential of at most zero. Their only hope of going through would be a) Togo beating or drawing with France and losing to Switzerland or b) Togo drawing against both France and Switzerland. If Togo were to lose both matches then Korea would be eliminated, and if they won both matches the fight for second place would come down to Korea and Switzerland, and that could get sticky. But that's a very unlikely scenario, so I'm not even going to entertain that thought until I see tonight's match.
To sum up: Korea need to win against Switzerland. That's really all there is to it. I just hope the boys play their hearts out in that final match.
Anyone else watching the Switzerland-Togo match? That was a pretty exciting first half. The Swiss took the lead with a beautiful goal in the 16th minute, but it's still far from decided. Togo threatened quite a few times, and they looked stronger than I had expected. I'm looking forward to the second half. I think Togo can score if they keep up the pressure. But the Swiss defense is looking very organized and quite solid. It's going to be a close match no matter what happens.
That's a great indepth post you made there Suho I bet the local press would have paid for that analysis
Yes, I have been rather surprised at how well Togo are playing as a team considering the unsettling week they have had. They have had at least one clear cut penalty refused and seem to have the talent to trouble the Swiss defence some more. They do need to strengthen the left side of their defence though, otherwise I can see another goal coming from that direction.
Togo did not live up to the performance in the first half and have now limped out of the competition. So that puts Switzerland on top of the group on goal difference.
It's looking tricky for SK on Friday, 23 June. I'm thinking that France will beat Togo so it's the winners of the Switzerland v South Korea game that will go through with France. For all the other permutations see Suho's post above (3 up)
Well, you called it Tao. The second goal came from that side.
When it comes down to it, Togo had a ton of chances to pull even, but they just could not seal the deal. Yes, the Swiss defense is like a brick wall, but Togo is fast, and they could have--should have--scored. But they didn't, and they wore themselves out in the process, and the Swiss made them pay.
I was rather disappointed to see that second goal go in. If the match had ended 1-0, a draw with Switzerland would have been enough for Korea to go through. Now, though, they would lose out on goal differential. The only way a draw with the Swiss would see them through now would be if France beat Togo by one goal and don't manage to beat Korea in overall goals scored. I just don't see that happening. France know that they have to win against Togo to go through, and I think they'll do it (and by more than one goal).
Now, looking ahead to the Korea-Switzerland match: the Swiss defense is formidable, but they still manage to put together quick offensive strikes. Still, Korea's defense is a lot more solid than Togo's, and Korea also have the stamina to stay with the Swiss to the end. The first goal is going to be very important--I don't think Korea can afford to go down a goal in the first half and then hope to score two in the second. They are going to need to pick up the pace and score first. Playing come-from-behind again could be disastrous.
Anyway, it's midnight, and I've woken up at four in the morning for the past two days, so I'm pretty exhausted. Good night all.
[Edit: Oh, and congratulations to kimson. Very well played match by your boys. Our final meeting is going to be one heck of a showdown.]
The South Korea V Switzerland match is going to be great, both teams iwll be out to prove their worth and won't sit back and relax like the French mistakenly have. Great game, the second goal was amazing!
next up Ukraine, a sentimental favorite for me here in 06, against the Saudis, a team that qualified quite impressively.
4-0 to the Ukraine at the time of this writing. That's a serious beating from a team I expected to see something from. The Saudis in 94 made an impression with the arguable goal of the tournament but man, they've really stunk everything up since. Have a nice flight back to the kingdom.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-19-2006 21:59
Spain vs Tunesian - all I can say is WOWOWOWOW! 0 - 1 for Tunesian in the half!!!
What is happening to soccer?
I think Korea is in serious trouble. I said that Korea should have pressured France in the first half and it is looking more and more like that is going to come back and haunt the Koreans. In any regards, it sure is an exciting group, with everyone except Togo having a chance! I suspect that despite all the difficulties that France has, that they will defeat Togo especially in the state that it is in. That means that it will all come down to the Korea vs Swiss game.
That is going to be one HELL of a game! I hope that Korea pulls it out and takes the group. That would be awesome.
Ukraine vs Saudia Arabia - another WOW! 4 - 0
And the way it is looking for Spain vs Tunesia...if Tunesia does the impossible and wins, then all bets are off!
The World Championship is really, really interesting this time!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
For once in a big competition I think Spain has a chacne this go, I was not worried when I read the 1-0 half score! They're powerful finally. Puyoll is the man and the goal he made the other day is still tops for me in this WC so far. GO TARZAN!
Considering that the Saudis qualified ahead of Korea, you would think they'd be able to put up something of a fight. They looked really strong in qualification...
quote: WebShaman said:
I think Korea is in serious trouble. I said that Korea should have pressured France in the first half and it is looking more and more like that is going to come back and haunt the Koreans. In any regards, it sure is an exciting group, with everyone except Togo having a chance! I suspect that despite all the difficulties that France has, that they will defeat Togo especially in the state that it is in. That means that it will all come down to the Korea vs Swiss game.That is going to be one HELL of a game! I hope that Korea pulls it out and takes the group. That would be awesome.
I'm not sure where you get "serious trouble" from. Maybe that's what it looks like from elsewhere, but here things are going pretty much par for the course. In fact, we're doing better than a lot of people expected, what with the way we were playing friendlies right before the finals started. I was starting to wonder if we'd even manage to win.
Also, and I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say this , but Korea is not a strong first half team. Sure, it would have been nice if the boys had put more pressure on France in the first half and scored a goal, but it was not in the cards. The best result we could have hoped for, I think, would have been 0-0 at the half. The plan would have then been to wear out the French in the second half and score (which is pretty much what happened anyway).
Why are Korea not a strong first half team? For one, they are not very fast. This means they are not going to get a lot of quick chances. They also have a tendency to break down completely on defense at times, which means that the focus in the early game is often on not giving up a goal. The lack of speed in general also plays a factor here, as Korea are not too good at flipping from defense to offense and going on a quick counterattack. Sure, they've got a few fast players, but the inability to transition well means that these players will often be stranded by themselves in the attacking end. Without support, the attack fizzles. Korea have also struggled with finishing power, which just adds to their woes in the first half.
The reason they are stronger in the second half is primarily stamina. They don't get any quicker, but the opposing teams usually get slower. Also, they will usually bring in Ahn or some other star players with finishing power in the second half, and that's when the magic happens. Now I'm not saying that Korea can't score in the first half. They can, and they have. But more often than not they play a more defensive first half and go on the attack in the second half. It's kind of a rope-a-dope technique, actually.
This is why, WS, I can't understand your assessment of the draw with France. With another team, yeah, early pressure would have probably been a good idea. But Korea against France? That's expecting too much. France outclass Korea in terms of skill by a pretty wide margin. The reason Korea can pull out victories or draws against significantly better teams is their stamina and their heart. There is a word we use a lot here: tuji. It means "fighting spirit," and the Koreans have a lot of it. That's why I was far more distressed by the Togo match than the France match. During the match with France, our boys never gave up. But in the last ten or fifteen minutes of the Togo match, they let up on the attack completely and just tried to protect their lead (and almost failing to do so in the process). Where did that fighting spirit go? They could have and should have scored at least one more goal. That lack of a third goal is the reason why Korea can't afford to draw against Switzerland right now. They did the best they could against France on that day, but they fell down against Togo. I was far happier with that draw then I was was with that win.
Another thing: we always knew that it would come down to the match against Switzerland, and we always knew that we would have to win it. It certainly would have been nice to pull off an upset against France, but before the tournament no one even expected a draw. The common logic was: win against Togo, lose to France, and then put everything on the line against the Swiss. Like I said above, it always comes down to the wire here, so no one is either surprised or worried now. The Korean side improved significantly in the second match, and I don't think we're anywhere near being in serious trouble.
That being said, I repeat: we cannot afford to give up an early goal against Switzerland. I won't give up hope if that happens, but it's going to be very difficult to come back against the Swiss defense, especially since we would need at least two goals. I would be satisfied with 0-0 at the half, ecstatic if Korea score first. We haven't yet seen Swiss play from a deficit, so it would be interesting to see what would happen. Of course, even if I do get to watch the match (it's on at 4 am, and my wife and I will be in Japan...), I won't be around to offer my brilliant commentary. Thus the advanced notice of how I will be feeling given certain situations.
kimson: Amen. When it's all over and done with, I plan to root for whoever goes through.
I think it's not so much that the Koreans are not a first half team... I just think they're much more fit than a lot of teams so the other teams are not as much second half teams as Korea
Except Ghana.
Lord love the Ghanains! Watch their second half against a very mobile Czechs squad and tremble at the fitness! They are incredible physically.
If the Suisse wilt in heat like the English the red tide should be set
WS: I didn't say that Korea don't concentrate on the first half, just that they are not usually as strong in the first half (or, as Jason put it, that other teams aren't as strong as Korea in the second half). I want to make this clear: it is not that they are not as solid mentally in the first half, just that it takes some time for them to get clicking on offense against stronger teams (and France is definitely a stronger team). Not concentrating in the first half against Switzerland would indeed be devastating. So I'm hoping they'll be on their game. What I'm mainly hoping for in the first half is no defensive breakdowns, because that seems to plague Korea quite a bit. I'll be interested to see who Advocaat plays on defense. If he puts Kim Sangsik in I will be angry. Not that anyone will care, but I just thought I'd let you know.
As for more pressure in the first half against France, well, I can't argue with that. It would have been great, but France played quite a strong first half. I thought Korea played rather well, all things considered. Like I said before, most commentators here consider Korea lucky to have gotten out with a point, so your optimism and faith in Korea's abilities is heartening. Let's hope they don't let you down.
Re: Ghana - All I can say is that I am glad Togo are not Ghana. And that I am going to be on the edge of my seat for the US-Ghana match. Anyone want to get together for an intense prayer meeting before the first whistle?
Ian: Well, yeah, some of us like to travel a bit. But it's not a matter of going soft, it's a matter of being able to find a television in Japan at four o'clock in the morning. I'll have to do some scouting around if our inn doesn't have TV. Whatever the case, I will be here in spirit, if not in body (well, you know, my typing fingers).
GO GHANA GO.....but am afraid some of their players wont be playing coz they already have two yellow cards ...but still...reflecting on how they played the last match...hmmm..i can confidently say playing the USA will be a WALK in the PARK
It's crunch time for group A and B today with two potentially cracking games that will decide who plays whom in the next round. (Winners of group A play the runners up of group B. Winners of group B play the runners up of group A. Just in case anyone out there was unsure)
The media is, and has been for the past few weeks, in a speculation frenzy over this. Would it be better for us (England) to play the host nation and all that that entails, or Ecuador? England have a slight advantage in the speculation stakes here as we play Sweden five hours after Germany play Ecuador.
Personally, I would like England to win the group.
I don't have a TV so I have not had to endure the (seemingly) endless hours of debate about broken metatarsals, striker confidence, diamond formations and flat pack fours, oops sorry, thats the furniture Don't get me wrong, I love a good old discussion on tactics and player selection but the British press remind me of packs of vultures and hyenas fighting for any scrap and hype hype hype.....STOP.
(Phew, nearly went into rant mode then, I despise 99.99% of all TV and press media). happy thoughts and a deep breath
Where was I? Oh yes, Thinking of the next round, England have three playes on a yellow card (Crouch, Gerrard and Lampard) who may miss the next game if they get another yellow in this match. Keeping that in mind I think Gerrard and Crouch may be rested, with Carrick and Rooney stepping up. Rooney is a phenomenal player who needs to get himself match fit uber quick if we are to progress much further.
I've got a comfy armchair next to a big TV booked for both games today so I'm just doing all my jobs and chores so I'm not distracted from the beautifull game.
Some Musings
It really tickled my funny bone the other day while watching the Brasil v Australia match with all the exotic names in the Brazilian side like Ronaldino, Ronaldo and the like, that the scorer of the second goal was called FRED
Do you have any thoughts on who may be the top goal scorer in the competition as well as what team will win? At the moment these are the top ten:
Fernando Torres - Spain = 3
Omar Bravo - Mexico = 2
Tim Cahill - Australia = 2
Hernan Crespo - Argentina = 2
Agustin Delgado - Ecuador = 2
Miroslav Klose - Germany = 2
Rodriguez Maxi - Argentina = 2
Tomas Rosicky - Czech Republic = 2
Carlos Tenorio - Ecuador = 2
David Villa - Spain = 2
With Argentina looking like they are competition favorites I think Crespo may be the best bet, but I am hoping that Rooney and Owen get their form back and claim joint top scorers. Yes I can dream like a chump err I mean Champ
[doh] fixing spellingks after near media rant[./doh]
Not long to go now, the teams have been named, the stadium is full. It would be great to finish top of the group, but more than that I hope it is a great game.
I'd like to wish all our Swedish inmates Lycka till
Klose is frighteningly good. I only saw the first half of the match (which thankfully had both of Klose's goals), but Germany completely dominated a strong Ecuadorian side. Looks like they decided it was time to kick it up a notch. If they continue playing like that, I would say that they are definitely in the running.
The teams I think have a chance to go all the way at this point (in alphabetical order): Argentina, Brazil, Germany, and Spain.
I missed the England-Sweden match, but judging from the highlights it looks like it was an exciting contest. I think England did well to avoid Germany in the Round of 16, but Ecuador will be no pushover.
One more day (and change) until the US-Ghana match...
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-21-2006 06:40
I agree Suho, it is looking more and more like Argentina, Brazil, Germany, and Spain.
England vs Sweden was an exciting match to watch, but performance-wise, it was a disaster for both sides!
England has lost a very valuable player - man, that must have hurt! And although they played very well in the 1st half, the second half was a shambles! Sweden was just the opposite, having a very lackluster and sluggish 1st half, only to come back and totally dominate in the second!
Both sides could have easily won, if they had done better in the other halves. Sweden missed some goals (and WOW, were they near-misses!), and just when the pressure was getting unbearable, just...let up. Every time.
Pretty strange.
Well, things are definitely shaping up! Looking forwards to the next couple of games!
Hmmm...examining the expected quarterfinals puts Germany and Argentina on collision course!
THAT is going to be a great game!
And it is looking more and more like Brazil vs Spain
We may have a South American Final! Woooohooooo!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Yup. There are some interesting matches coming up. I just hope I can catch them while I'm traveling. I have a feeling I'm goign to miss a number of them.
Guess I'd better figure out how to use that BitTorrent thingy...
Even with England finishing top of Group B, I don't have a lot of hope for them progressing much further STS. Michael Owens horrible injury was a shock, watching his knee pop out like that in super SloMo made me wince, did you see it at all? I agree with your assessment of the match WS. If only we could clone a couple more Stevie G's. the team would be unstoppable.
Sweden are a good side, but if we had problems containing their attack, we will have no chance against a more proficient side.
Portugal v Mexico playing soon, I'm thinking that Portugal shoud win this one they have the class should they decide to shine. The big game tonight should be really good Holland v Argentina, looking forward to seeing how both teams finish the group.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-21-2006 15:38
Oh, that is terrible Suho!
I feel for ya, buddy!
The Argentina vs Holland is going to be PUUUUUUUUUREE Gold to watch!!! Can Argentina improve on their already staggering game? Or will Holland pull an "orange wig" on them? I can hardly wait!
I am going to say that Mexico is going to defeat Portugal. Portugal has the ability to beat Mexico, but the way that Portugal is playing...Mexico could pull off the win!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Is Michael Owen the unluckiest player in the world? He should have never left Liverpool! I think his goals for Newcastle have cost over 2mil pounds each. His situation is heartbreaking. Get well soon Michael
From: Darwin, NT, Australia Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 06-21-2006 23:41
Suho, if you're considering BitTorrent, you may find this helpful; it has handy compilation of most of the versions available, with a summary of pros and cons of same.
We all feel for ya, what a time to be away from a TV. I'm sure there'll be plenty in Japan, unless you're going on a monastic retreat, but there's no substitute for ya own TV and couch ta nap on
Thanks for the link, Ian. Jason's also provided me with some handy links to help me get started, so hopefully I'll be downloading some missed matches later on.
I actually did watch the first half of the Portugal-Mexico match last night, and was suprised to find out this morning that there were no goals in the second half. Portugal came out of the gate like lightning, and then Mexico started clawing their way back into it. I was sure the second half was going to see more action. I guess there was a send off, though?
I was also surprised to see a nil-nil draw between Holland and Argentina. That was definitely unexpected.
And what happened to Michael sucks. When I read about it yesterday I just couldn't believe it. The poor guy deserves fantastic luck for the rest of his life!
This will likely be my last post for at least a couple of days, as I've got to get a bunch of things done before we leave the house real early in the morning tomorrow. So have fun! I'll be with you in spirit.
Ain't we in for some exciting ganes from group E.
All the teams in that group have a possibility of going through.
Italy 4
Czech 3
Ghana 3
USA 1
Let me see if i can come up with all the possible scenario's:-
If
(Italy beats Czech) & ( Ghana beats USA);
then
Italy,Ghana = Last 16;
Else If
(Italy beats Czech) & ( USA beats Ghana);
Italy,USA = Last 16;
Else If
(Czech beats Italy) & ( Ghana beats USA);
then
Czech,Ghana = Last 16;
Else If
(Czech beats Italy) & ( USA beats Ghana);
Czech = Last 16;
Italy's Goal diffrence = x;
USA Goal diffrence = y;
If x>y
( Italy= last 16 );
else
(USA= last 16);
Now am not sure I got everything covered.
But all the same....GO GHANA GO....i believe this guys might go all the way..if only they could put on there shooting boots.
A nuther crucial day for the beautiful game
I have been interested in the Football v Soccer mini debates I've heard online and on the street so I decided to try to take it further and do a little research. Off to the local library I went and straight to the etymology section to get to the root of it, I thought. After a good hour of searching through some fascinating literature on Bombadier beetles (they make thier own explosives you know) I realised that I was in the Entomology section, not the Etymology one. My curiosity can't spell and my research skills are not what you would call sharp.
I was however, a little more productive online and it appears that my first assumption that "soccer" was introduced by our American cousins to differentiate between "The Beautiful Game" and American Football was erroneous.
Here are a couple of links that clarified the situation: The Online Etymology Dictionary Spiegel Online
On a slight diversion this was interesting too John Quiggin Soccer or Football
I know now that some of us are glued to the TV watching the World Cup thinking "I wonder what fonts are used on the various countries football kits? Come on, I know you were, well wonder no more. Football Jersey Fonts
Thanks for that breakdown binary, I'll be rooting for the USA and Australia today. COME ON YOU ExCOLONIES!!
[doh] Fingers can't spell either[/doh]
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-22-2006 14:16
I expect Brazil to totally crush Japan.
Australia and Croatia should be interesting. I expect Australia to win.
Italy vs Czech is going to be THE game to watch! I expect Italy to go fully offensive (due to the fact that Czech has no power forwards to field due to yellowcards) and to pull out a win.
US vs Ghana - my heart is with "Da Boyz" of course...and with the lead forward for Ghana out (yellowcard), we have a great chance! I hope that the team is fully set for offense and that we grab and hold the tempo and initiative. If the US can do that, then they will win.
GO USA!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
soccer is a contraction of association football, and was coined by you Brits I laugh when Brits say "soccer" with contempt!
I'm in real danger of missing the US match this morning, I've left it tl late to figure outhow to watch it and I'm madly looking through p2p streaming channels hoping to find one that doesn't buffer madly
If I don't get to watch this game I'll be in a tizzy all day
I'm with you, Jason. Can you believe this? They are showing the Italy-Czech match here on three different channels and don't have the US-Ghana match anywhere! I am very, very, very pissed!
And they promised this year that they would show all the matches! How can three separate stations all concentrate on the same match?!
[Edit: By the way, if you figure out some way to watch it, will you let me know? Although if I don't figure out something soon, I may just go to bed. We have to leave the house at 4:30 tomorrow morning...]
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 06-22-2006 16:38
If there's one thing that really impresses me with the world cup... it has to be the camera work. I don't know what type of lense they use for thosed long, almost aerial shots, but it's just really great to see virtually both sides of the field..watch the plays taking shape... without being so far back the players look like ants. And of course the replays are fantastic. I think it's gotta be watching the plays take shape..or fall apart for that matter... that I like most.
- You'll never have to think outside the box if you don't get in the damn box in the first place. -
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-22-2006 17:54
It does look dismal
I hate it when I am right...
Oh well, at least we did not play like losers in the last two games!
One can still be proud of our boys, even if they do have a negative goals scored to goals scored against. At least we finally have scored a point in a Cup game on European soil!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
You know, we may have gotten screwed by the ref on that penalty kick, but it was a defensive error that led to that whole situation in the first place. And the truth is that Ghana outplayed us. The US just did not play the match that they needed to play. A very disappointing match.
I'm just gutted. I was ready to pull for Ghana if they beat us and got out with Italy but after that display of poor sportsmanship (time wasting) in the second half I don't even have that option. They've lost my respect in that regard.
The US needs to have a vacation, go buy and Italy shirt, go buy an Argentina or Holland jersey and kick around Germany and watch some matches. This is not the end of the world as the announcers on ESPN seem to think. Arena's head they say
The US was outmatched physically or technically byt all three teams in this group. In some case, the Czechs, both physically and technically. They really were my last pick to come out of the group. I can say this now that I can longer root for them I think they did well to just show as well as they did against Italy and Ghana. We sometimes forget that there's another team in the equation when ours lose, the teams we played were some of the best of the 32. That said, the US is a winner by spirit, we find it hard to accept a loss and we'll shake things up I'm sure.
I'm having a hard time figuring out the lacklustre showing of some of our players. I need to go back and watch these games again to determine if it was the players or the system. I think the players didn't step up. Dempsey was it. Dempsey played like an American every minute on the field.
I did end up getting an ESPN feed myself Suho, didn't buffer at all the whole game. TVUPlayer, lots of good channels and peers.
Freddy Adu will be in the lineup next time around for the USA. But it's not likely enough for them to do much more than this time.
Croatia needs to wake up. If they play mediocre or better I think they'll run away with today's match. But they haven't scored a goal yet, and you can't get out of your box without scoring. I still think they'll end up winning today, they're much more dangerous than the Aussies, they just need a little more finish for their chances. Hopefully Niko Kovac isn't still diving around at every oportunity.
I don't know anyone who thinks that penalty should have been awarded against the US, no way at all.
The whole game was not shown on terrestial TV here so I can not comment too much about the performance. Tough luck USA, you had a hard group to play in, some shocking refereeing decisions, and perhaps some key players not totally focused on the task in hand.
Does this mean Football /Soccer will still not be popular in the US?
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-22-2006 23:21
WOWOWOW!
Brazil vs Japan! 4-1!!!
Those japanese awoke Godzillihno! Ronaldo is baaaaack!
He is now tied with Gerd Mueller with 14 World Championship goals apiece, and poised to be the all-time high scorer!
I am not going to comment on the Aussie vs Croats. Bad, bad referee! Bad!
Just a good on ya, mates! Welcome to a Brazil on fire! Be sure to let Ronaldo score at least once, so that he can set the new record!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Both games were on TV here tonight, but I must admit I only really watched the Brasil game. The Aussie game sounded like madness had broken out, for the first time in history a player has been given three yellow cards in one game, at least that's what it sounded like. Harry Kewell has been improving with Liverpool FC all season and it looks like he has carried on getting better during the WC.
Mark Viduka looked massive during the brief highlights I have watched in that game, keeping possession, holding the ball up till the attack got more players up. Well done Australia
Brasil while still not near their own excellent best looked marvellous. The same can be said for Ronaldo too. Even though he is carrying a lot of extra timber he is so important to the team. They play with their heart, and their collective hearts would be broken if Ronaldo was not in the side. As WebShaman said "Those japanese awoke Godzillihno! Ronaldo is baaaaack!
JK: "the US is a winner by spirit" yeah right ....but they could go join the Samba girls in supporting brasil
"Those japanese awoke Godzillihno! Ronaldo is baaaaack! "....
I dont think this is true....if you noticed through out the game most of the players we trying to pass the ball to him...One thing abt the brazillian players is that they are like a family unit...and since this match was not that serious...they decided to let the boy shine coz he has been recieving lots of bad press...their next game will be with Ghana...i know its a long shot but...GO GHANA GO..miracles do happen
quote:"Those japanese awoke Godzillihno! Ronaldo is baaaaack! "....
I dont think this is true....if you noticed through out the game most of the players we trying to pass the ball to him...One thing abt the brazillian players is that they are like a family unit...and since this match was not that serious...they decided to let the boy shine coz he has been recieving lots of bad press.
While there may be some truth in that binary you miss the obvious. Ronaldo is the permanent striker, that's why they keep "trying to pass the ball to him.."
I have to go walkabout again and I'm not sure how long for, so it is most unlikely I'll be able to post for a while. I'll only be able to hear the football matches on the radio till I get back Happy, happy, joy, muckin' joy!
Tao:- Okey i do know where you coming from .....but 4 the trend nowdays teams that are doing well are those that have what we call " Attacking Mid-fielders"
If you watch ROBINHO or ADRIANO playing...they do pull back in the mid- field to work 4 the ball....but Ronaldo nooooo....he is always at the edge of the box waiting 4 a cross..
So what happens if brasil meets a time that has a good defence and is able to intersect those crosses b4 they reach Ronaldo .....then they r done
I'm, just a big awld Grimm Tao today binary. Sorry if I came across a bit : rolleyes : kind of thing
Brasil play a different style of football than any other side I have seen in the WC or the domestic leagues here. I think I've heard it refered to as "Total Football" I agree that perhaps no other side in the world would tolerate a forward seemingly "out for a stroll in the park" and Ronaldo himself is well under par by his own excellent standards.
I'm sure he was kept on for the full ninety minutes yesterday to help him gain more match fitness. As much as we like to look at the undoubted footballing talent of each of the individuals in the Brasil side we can forget just what a great team they are too. As a team they have decided that they would rather have a 60% fit Ronaldo sitting on the shoulder of the defence than not.
Remember this too, he was on a yellow card before that match. Most other managers were having huge debates with their teams (and the filthy press) about resting players on yellow cards in case they got another one and missed the next match. Carlos Alberto Parreira (the manager) decided he needed Ronaldo to play, the team needed Ronaldo to play and Ronaldo himself needed and wanted to play.
I understand your point of view binary and would agree with you if it were any other player in any other team.
This is no ordinary team and an extaordinary player.
JK: "the US is a winner by spirit" yeah right ....but they could go join the Samba girls in supporting brasil
if you noticed through out the game most of the players we trying to pass the ball to him...One thing abt the brazillian players is that they are like a family unit...
"Winner by spirit" was referring to our national personality and the fact that we won't stick our tails between our legs and o ccry. We'll look at why we didn't win and figure out how to get better. We did as any sane rational soccer fan expected. The US press may have hyped the team but anyone that follows the team and the sport in this country knew that this was the most likely end product. My statement had nothing to do with our performance in this tournament. Sicne you obviously misinterpreted my statement I won't tell you to stick your samba girl comment squarely up your own ass
RE Ronaldo - The man's a legend and you'll never hear a bad word out of my mouth for him, he's already done so much in the game. I've followed him since he was just a boy at PSV and I've seen him do things over his career that noone's come close to since. This i why I respect and cheer for him still.
That said I think you're right on to a large degree, if I were the manager I wouldn't have Ronaldo on as a starter, or I'd bring him off much earlier. Maybe he gives the team a psychological lift or something but he's not mobile at all, he's not the best player for the choosing at the moment. Look at his goals in that game, the header goal in the past he would have attackedn that ball quickly from a good angle but the current Ronaldo barely got there, he moves like a turtle now where he used to be lightening. I'd always pick him over Adriano tho
The quickness of his game is gone but he's always had other dimensions, he can get into positions unmarked and if can get a good ball to feet he doesn't need any time or hhelp to score in those situations still. His shooting is still deadly accurate, quick and instinctive. His days of running 60 yards with the ball and sticking it in the net are probably over His days of doing his lightening fast step-over shimmy at full speed around 18 yards to get past defenders is probably over. But you still get lot of goals from the guy otherwise, more I think than you can expect from a fully fit Adriano even.
There's talk that Ronaldo's depressed or somethin. You can see that, for a few years now, since his move to Madrid. Weight gain, how many different model girlfriends/wives? Slumps, injuries. This is a guy that was close to Michael Jordan celebrity status on a global scale for many years and all that's fading. It all started when he was stil la teenager as well. He's got a lot on his mind no doubt.
I'm glad to see some people finally respecting Robinho. He's a massivey good player. I argued his merits to a bunch of friends of mine that are Madristas. They did not want him and thought he was useless, I thought he could be the best player on the team after getting some experience under his belt. I think he's definitely getting there and hopefully this WC is his launching pad.
Spain and the Ukraine with wins this morning
The trial dates over MoggiGate stuff in Italy are set and Juventus, Milan, Lazio and Firoentina are named. Meanwhile Italy looks like they have a possible easy route to the semis!
France ... playing better without Zidane! Who would have thought that?On the other hand
me me me! He's long past his sell by date To me the biggest factor in this performance is DummYech pulling head from butt and playing Trezeguet finally. That and the fact that Togo are pretty listless looking.
Korea's down 2-0 and not looking like they're going to get anything from this. So the French teams go through at this point from this group
I'm totally suprised by the Swiss, they were not even on my radar before the WC started. I only knew that Senderos was quality from watching him at Arsenal last season but the Swiss as a team? I need to study up on the boys.
And yes, condolences on your loss Suho and all those fantastic supporters!
quote: binary said:
i was just giving my condolences by offering you guys the SAMBA girls
*that* would be a fine consolation indeed
I'm going out of town to play soccer all weekend, I'm sure there'll've (double contraction!!! YES!!) been an upset or two. 99% chance Ghana's going home tho! Too bad too, their colorful support will be missed. The clearly need a rest however as helf their team lay down in the 2nd half of their last group game
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-24-2006 20:20
There is no excuse for how the US played.
It was shitty, crappy, and totally screwed.
They deserved to be sent packing with that un-performance.
It is the big league folks! Either come to play and be a contender, or stay home.
Well, the Germans destroyed Sweden. Either come to play, or go home is the message.
I guess the Swedes will be going home.
At least Mexico understood this. What a game! Argentina was really pressed to pull out a win! Now THAT is what I call playing with heart and soul! Though they lost, Mexico gets my respect. Well done!
It will be interesting to see if Germany can put forth that type of effort for over 90 minutes.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-26-2006 07:39
England squeeks out a win against a poor looking Ecuador. A truly uninspiring match, and I think that unless England really improves its game, it will be gone after the next match.
And now for the shocker of the day!
Portugal defeats Holland!
And what an ugly match it was! Set new WC records for number of red cards (4) and I believe yellow as well (11)!!
9 vs 9, and somehow, Portugal managed to hang onto the 1-0 lead and win.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: Darwin, NT, Australia Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 06-26-2006 07:53
Coming up tonight Australian time, Australia v Italy; should be an interesting match. It's all or nothing for the Aussies..... most of them will never play again together if they lose this one!
Here's hoping for a bit of a**e to beat that Italian class..... just one more round so the lads can go out in style
Now why should you be suprised. From the way the Ned started you could tell that they were in no hurry of playing. What i love watching is a team that takes the fight to its opponents not holding back and waiting for a lucky break.
Imajin if the Ned had gone through and they met England..that would have been a very very boring match to watch
My theory on what caused the match to be that ugly:
The tackle on CRISTIANO RONALDO was the genesis of all this. Ouch that must have hurt and I truly believe that was so on purpose. If Ronaldo had stayed on the Ned's would have found it very very tough.
I truly hope Ronalodo will be fit. coz him out , Deco out; England might be having a lucky break
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-26-2006 09:13
Actually, Portugal got lucky the entire game. For some reason, the Portugese Goal was cursed for Holland.
Holland definitely played a much better game than Portugal did - examine the statistics. Portugal was obviously studying the Golden rules. However, Holland forgot the Golden Rule # 1 - if you want to win, then you MUST shoot goals.
And they didn't, although they did shoot alot of balls at the goal!
I think Portugal has a very good chance of beating England, to be honest.
Aussies vs Italy. This should be a very interesting match. I am not sure who will win, so I expect it to be very close.
The Swiss vs Ukraine - well, I expect the Swiss to stomp the Ukraine. Next opponent, please!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
quote: binary said:
i was just giving my condolences by offering you guys the SAMBA girls.
i'm ok with that
to catch up a bit, the officiating definitely not in favor at the tournament but at the same time we really just didn't show up. I see Arena gone and hopefully some more creative talent coming up through the ranks, we shall see. interesting article in the Houston newspaper that i somewhat agree with.
as far as upcoming matches, i've now hopped on the Aussie bandwagon. i'm also REALLY curious to see what Ghana does against Brazil, i think that could be a more interesting match than people expect. England has yet to have a really strong performance and i'd be surprised to see them make the semi (but stranger things have happened). other than that my money is on Spain and Torres...the kid knows how to finish
that just sucked...what it is it with officials calling penalties in extra time?! especially in a tied match you just can't make that call unless it's a horribly blatant penalty.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-26-2006 21:22
THAT was the STUPIDEST thing I have seen a Team do yet.
WTF was Australia thinking? First of all, there shouldn't have BEEN a man from Italy anywhere near the Goal area. Australia totally screwed the pooch on that one! And then to let that italian player have a chance at getting an 11 meter...
With 10 seconds to go in extended play?
Wow.
I sure am glad that didn't happen to the US team. Bad enough to have a dumb a$$ foul another and get a red card in the first half.
But give Italy a chance with only 10 seconds left before regular play was over?
I'm still digesting that one!
The Swiss vs Ukraine is looking to be an interesting match so far.
As for Brazil vs Ghana, Brazil has steadily been improving game play. It remains to be seen if Brazil picks up where they left off with Japan - if they do, then Ghana will get buried, as well as the rest of the world...hehe.
Ghana certainly hasn't improved their game as the 2-1 over the US was anything other than spectacular.
I am personally looking forward to the Argentina vs Germany game! I think that is going to be a Huuuuge game!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
I've been listening to an off-tube internet audio broadcast from The Sun to catch games during the day, and the very British announcers are just hysterical. they couldn't stop talking about how unexciting the Ukraine/Swiss match was, and going into penalties were saying things like "Well this should be interesting, once they've got the ball at the penalty spot they'll look up and perhaps realize the goalmouth is what they were supposed to be shooting at the entire match."
From: Darwin, NT, Australia Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 06-27-2006 01:35
Took a while to get to sleep last night..... boy what coulda been....dream...even losing a penalty shootout woulda felt better!
Ah well, only 4 years ta go Go Germany
^WS
I'm with you on THAT penalty in Aus v Ita...WTF.... still.... shit happens.... it should never have got to there.... at that level at that moment, a desperate team shoulda taken play/the man/whatever down BEFORE it got into the penalty area
Swiss vs Ukraine
To say the truth...i watched 10 to 15 min of this game and i swicthed the
channel immediately i could tell it would be one of those matches.
It's really bad to see some teams still out there..still hanging on ...while very good teams like Mexico, Cote D' have already gone home. Am sure if all the teams that played yesterday were pitched with Mexico...they would all be packing.
Anyway thats the world Cup..i guess it really doesnt matter when good teams play against each other coz eventually they would be only one winner.
Now back to today's match Brasil vs Ghana:-
You should all mark this day in your dairy...as i predict a Major Major upset
today...and you wouldnt want to forget this day...
Brasil 2 Ghana 3
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-27-2006 08:11
Ian, you are absolutely correct - that first defender should have mowed Toti down (and have taken the yellow), instead of trying to play a fresh Toti down. That missed opportunity set up the encounter inside the goal area, and with an Italian player all alone in front of the goal and not offsides, even a little bit of perceived disruption to Toti's advance was likely to end in an 11 meter call.
Bitter, but true.
Australia definitely played better than Italy, but in the end only the Golden rule counts - to win, you must score goals.
I admire that Australia played fair to the end. You have to admire that. Fair dinkum!
The only upset there is going to be in the Brazil vs Ghana game is that Ronaldo will probably not score a goal and break the all time high goal score in the WC! Brazil will squash Ghana like a bug! I predict 4-0 Brazil.
I also expect Spain to teach the French some lessons about soccer!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Totti is a wee fella, Grosso was the spindly Italian taken down in the box
Brasil wil murderize the Ghanaians! I actually hold a little hope for Ghana but that hope leads me to a conclusion of a close victory for Brasil intead of a blowout. But Robinho's out and Adriano's in so who knows, mebbe they nick it?! Doubtful but stranger things have happened.
binary: If Ghana wins I'll buy you many beers truly deserved!
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-27-2006 09:31
quote:Totti is a wee fella, Grosso was the spindly Italian taken down in the box
Oops!
Er...yeah, what he said!
I am interested in seeing how Brazil plays. Will they pick up where they left off against Japan, or will they go back to their earlier form? Too bad I have to work
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Swiss vs Ukraine
To say the truth...i watched 10 to 15 min of this game and i swicthed the channel immediately i could tell it would be one of those matches.
It's really bad to see some teams still out there..still hanging on ...while very good teams like Mexico, Cote D' have already gone home.
Well, if they've already gone home, it probably means they're not that good, somehow. And if I agree it wasn't an exciting game, they still took their chance, and didn't play the only boring game in the Cup by far.
And it's Switzerland, not Swiss.
You can call it Helvetia, Suisse, Confédération Helvétique, Confédération Suisse, Schweiz, Schweizerische Eidgenossenschaft, Svizzera, Confederazione Svizzera, Confederaziun Svizra, Svizra, Switzerland or Swiss Confederation if you like.
But by no means Swiss
Ronaldo opens the scoring and mercifully removes the WC scoring record from a German Was not a bad goal to take the record on, and 18 yard step over to walk round the keeper and slot into an empty net AwEsOmE
Five minutes is not a bad time to score it either!
3-0 Brasil, good effort, as expected by Ghana, but didn't have the quality on the field or in the manager's chair in the end. They play with their hearts on their sleeves tho and for that I think they're he darlings of the WC, everyone seems appreciative of their efforts. Well done Ghana.
I'm fairly certain Parreira is the reason Brasil are not giving everyone the incredible circus act that they want and if that's the case I fancy them to make it to the final. Case in point is Ronaldinho, he is on a leash big time. It's good that he's obeying as well, a team of their talents that are untied under their manager's orders, given a good manager of course, are a team to be feared. THe announcers and a lot of fans are saying they "should fear so-and-so if they play like that"... they won't play "like that". Parreira prepares his team to face and beat the team they are coming up against, you can't say anything about their next performance based on their last in this World Cup.
I'm actually kind of suprised to see the powers that I picked at the beginning of the tournament living up to my expectations, very strange, I'm usually veeery wrong with early Euro/WC predictions I'm beginning to wish I'd been a betting man
I've heard that Fabregas may start over Senna, this makes me happy. I hear Raul may start over Garcia, this does not make me happy.
I'll try not to scream too loud when DummYech puts Zidane in and strands Henry giving France no hope.
I fancy Spain for the win as well but this could be another nail biting snooze fest like Ukraine/Switzerland if the manager's field the right players (or wrong players depending on your pov )
That was Spain choking out yet again, same as ever. Dunno why I picked them to go semis at least.
DummYech played the beatable team, Aragones and go choked every step of the way.
The only bright point of the game for me was Zidane getting on the scoresheet easy at it was at that point. Hopefully he can show some sparkle again before he retires
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 07-01-2006 01:32
Well, Germany squeeks by Argentina, and Italy blows the Ukraine off the map!
I have always disliked Penalty Shootouts to decide a match.
Germany gets by with a 1 - 1 with a win on Penalty Goals.
Wow.
Looks like the Gods of Luck were fickle with the Ukraine - they were pretty hot at the beginning of the 2nd half, but failed to realize the Golden Rule - to win, you must score goals. Enormous pressure was put on Italy, but the Keeper came up with some great winners, and of course the Goal Bar helped!
Of course, it didn't take long for Italy to capitalize on the fustration of the Ukrainians - goal!
3 - 0.
Ouch.
I am really looking forward to the Brazil vs France game!
GOOOOO Renaldo!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
I went into England Portugal wanting Portugal to win. By the time the game ended I had completely swapped, the Portuguese have accumulated to many diving crying whingy girl points withme and I now hate them with a passion normally reserved for positive things. I hope they lose bady and the sooner the better. They bring the game into direpute.
Zidane is getting his second wind, very happy to see that!
i don't feel that strongly about them but i totally understand JK. they do have a certain south american flair to their dives that doesnt sit well with me at all. also curious to see if cristiano ronaldo's move to real goes thru as he's probably not too popular in England at the moment
I admit i was happy to see France knock off Brazil, i think Brazil thought they could just coast through and Zidane showed up and played fantastically. I'd love to see him retire with another WC title though i don't know that it'll happen.
my money, whatever that's worth, is on the Germans, they're just playing the most solid football right now. we shall see...
The World Cup? The Euro (- Argentina - Brazil) Cup, more precisely Boring...
It should be a rule to have at least one non-European team in the semi finals!
I would be squarely in the underdog Potugal's camp as well if that hadn't made me physically ill with their unsporting behaviour during this tournament! Even Figo has lost his shine
quote: binary said:
DAMNNNNNN....now wat r we supposed to watch since the WC is now coming to a closure.
c'mon! there's a deadspot every year, we just have to suck it up and muddle through, get some yard work done
Germany/Italy is a DAMN GOOD game here at minute 28!
edit:
FORZA ITALIA!
Woooooooooooooooo!
I'm happy again after that performance. I've been a little indifferent since the US exited and I've got back into the daily busy busy life but now that we're getting to the quality stuff and my 2nd team just triumphed over the homers in Dortmund, and Alex gets a stunner for a cherry on it, well, I'm a little excited again!!! FANTASTIC game from both teams and frankly I expected nothing less! Congrats to Klinsmann and co on a job very well done and shutting the haters up over there.
2 last minutes goals in extra time period #2. heartstopping stuff for me
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 07-05-2006 06:57
Woooohooooo!
I am the happiest person in Germany right now!
First of all, what a game! It had almost everything!
The Italian plan was masterful and worked brilliantly. Germany was confused, fustrated, and had nothing to bring against it except for their up to this point undominable will.
That was not enough.
For once in this WC, Germany is goal-less in regular time. An incredible feat by the Italian defence! The fustration among the Germans showed, as they began to rack up yellowcards in the 1st half. The normally very dominant offense of the Germans turned into a push-shove-type of physical game.
And the Italians didn't blink.
A totally different Italian team in this game. They played very fair (for the Italians ) - and only received 1 yellowcard for the whole game (is that a record?).
And then came the extended play, and Italy turned up the heat! WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW!
It could have easily have been 4-0! But luck helped, and the Italians remained scoreless as well until deep into the 2nd extention of play.
Then the Germans faltered. Perhaps it was the pressure, the incredible expectations from the crowd (and the entire country on the German team), or perhaps they were already mentally in the Penalty Goal shootout (which is what I think, after hearing several remarks from various German players after the match). Irregardless, a last-ditch effort by the Italians to avoid the Penalty Shootout. With the clock ticking, forwards...and what a Goal!
It was a deadly thrust, sinking straight into the hearts of every German watching! 1-0!
And then came the mercy shot, putting an end to the death-throes!
2-0!
Finally, I can go to work, without having to be constantly subject to the incredible hubris and arrogance of my co-workers! Thank you, Italy! No more "Wir fahren nach Berlin!" calls, no more "The US can't play soccer, we will beat the Italians easily, unlike your team!" no more "why don't you follow your team home?" and other such irritations.
No more self-pontifications, no more "we are the best on the planet" attitudes.
I expect the situation to slowly relax at work now.
What a relief.
Onwards!
France vs Portugal!
My heart is with France and Zidane! But Portugal will not be handing tickets to the final game out to the french, they will have to earn them!
Personally, I want to see Italian vs France in the WC final! Two colossal Titans clash!
It doesn't get any better than that!
Or will it be the WC newcomer, Portugal?
Tonight promises to be another thrilling evening!
~On a side note : At least the US actually scored a goal against the Italians, the only team do have done so!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
you sound like a man relieved, go on then, tell us how you really feel
How's the German media treating Klinsmann after the bounce? I'm kinda hoping they'll turn on him so the US can snatch him up, but after what he's done with them and how well they've played, he should well be a national hero and get an extension through the next Euro at least.
How's the German media treating Klinsmann after the bounce? I'm kinda hoping they'll turn on him so the US can snatch him up
This wount help the USA team at all
Soccer/Football starts at the grassroots....the US as a country must first love the BEST GAME in the world....let the children play the game as a hobby rather palying Baseball......and when this children grow up...and only then would the USA team ever have a chance of reaching the QUARTER FINALS.....am hoping u r not thinking that they might one day win the WC ..mayb my grandson's son will c that
Guess who has been following the last stages of the world cup by radio! Just wanted to check in while I get the chance, I'm in a library at the moment getting some online goodness after a couple of weeks away. I'm in the back of beyond trying to get some conservation work done and I have had no choice but to go for the work now . So my World Cup binge has taken a bit of a dive, much like the England team's tournament, shower of plant pots,
I'm hoping to be home or at least near a TV for the final. The Germany v Italy game sounded great, I listened to it on Five Live and really enjoyed the commentary next time, if I get the chance, I plan to watch the game but listen to five live at the same time.
Jumping johosophat, I'm nearly out of computer time and I have a queue of bods waiting for me to finish so I'll bid you adieu.
Oh wait, France v Portugal, who am I up for? Well I don't really mind but I think I'll go gallic and shout for Le Bleu.
quote: binary said:
This wount help the USA team at all Soccer/Football starts at the grassroots....the US as a country must first love the BEST GAME in the world....let the children play the game as a hobby rather palying Baseball......and when this children grow up...and only then would the USA team ever have a chance of reaching the QUARTER FINALS.....am hoping u r not thinking that they might one day win the WC ..mayb my grandson's son will c that Go Portugal GO~Sig coming soon~
I can't tell if you're just taking the piss, bashing US Soccer in place of politics, or being honest but there are some serious gaps in your knowledge base regarding soccer in the US:
the US as a country must first love the BEST GAME in the world
As a country? That's purely your opinion, the people that play it love it as much as the next person of some other nation. The brotherhood of players and fans is as tight as any other nation's.
let the children play the game as a hobby rather palying Baseball
It's the most popular children's sport going here for the last several years running. I've been playing for over 30 years, since I was 5 or 6, I had a lot of teammates and leagues to play in. Tons of kids play here, and more every year.
I've seen figures as high as 18 million soccer players in the US. 18m as a percentage of some cup winning nations' populations:
Germany - 22%
Italy - 31%
England - 30%
Brasil - 10%
Argentina - 45%
Statistically speaking 18m players is an enviable number, especially when you consider a WC roster is only 23 deep. We have reason to be hopeful with that number of players. This number says nothing of the FANS of the sport.
18 million as a percentage of some other populations:
Netherlands - 55%
Ukraine - 84%
Romania - 179%
Sweden - 443%
Bulgvaria - 536%
Denmark - 735%
Numerically speaking we appear to be at the starting line at least wouldn't you say?
and only then would the USA team ever have a chance of reaching the QUARTER FINALS
We in fact reached the quarters in the '02 World Cup
In fact, played Germany and made them quite nervous, I thought Kahn was gonna sh*t his heart out. Ask any of the German team that faced the US that day 4 years ago if they're a game side. They certainly had no problem expressing their relief at getting out that game alive in the press conferences directly after the match
Were it not for the undetected handball of Torsten Frings clearing a US goal off the line, the outcome may have been much different, the US dominated the play in most of that match but the Germans leave 1-0 off of a set piece. Thems the breaks
So what did we do this tournament besides crash out at the group stage (from the REAL group oif death)?
Lessee, we were the only team of the tournament to face a full strength Czech side that many pundits were tipping to make it to the final. We played gutless in that game and we deserved the loss but 3-0 wasn't a measure of the gulf in quality, more a measure of the tactical hole the US dug themselves by giving up a goal in the first five minutes against a team that were uniquely equipped to protect such a lead and hit on counters. By the time they lost Koller the damage was done for the US, but his loss crippled the potential of the Czech side and made 3-0 look ever worse after the Czechs exited at the group stage as well.
US vs Italy was a good matchup tactically speaking, I expected to get something out of this match and we did. With 9 men against 10. Itlay is in the final now with only one goal scored against them and the US are responsible for that one. The Germans exit at the hands of a team that we match up quite well with.
Ghana was a great side! 2-1 to Ghana. Anyone on the planet think that goal #2 for Ghana, the game winner, the penalty... was a penalty?! No one but the ref that awarded it. Ghana was content to sit back and counter as well, you've got to hand it to their coach, he'd studied and prepared well for the US. We lacked seriously in our ability to create (and finish to some degree)a lot of quality chances, especially against a bunker type defensive setup.
Our group stage analysis is not to brag, how could I? We lost out big time! It's just to illustrate the point that the line between glory and heartbreak in football is very fine. It's also to illustrate that the world noticed that the US is up and coming. Every team we played this time around altered their usual tactics to defaet the US. It's ok if the fans around the world have no respect for the US game, but the managers whose paychecks and reputations depend on winning no longer take the US for granted.
We've qualified for every WC since 90 and are now a top dominant force in our Confederation on a regular basis. We'll likely be there ever 4 years, improving all the time. We know that we're way behind the top sides of Europe and South America and are taking steps to improve the level of competition we face in the 47 months between World Cups. I don't think we'll take many steps backwards from here.
quote:
It's the most popular children's sport going here for the last several years running. I've been playing for over 30 years, since I was 5 or 6, I had a lot of teammates and leagues to play in. Tons of kids play here, and more every year.
do u guys have soccer Academies......do parents really consider soccer as a career/profession or is it just part of the child's physical education....what am trying to drive is that soccer is not taken as a serious sport by the US public....
and B4 the US soccer team can be a force to reckon with....soccer by its self in the US must rise from it current position and compete with the other sports such Baseball, Basket Ball,Football(not so soccer) and the rest.
All the cup winning nations....soccer is the number one sport in their countries
even POLITICIANS take a break...( can u picture BUSH watching a soccer
match....i dont thnk SO)
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 07-06-2006 10:01
Sooo...
Enough US this, US that.
Only time and results will tell.
Onwards!
France vs Portugal
An incredible defence, France! Wow. They really shut Portugal down. Portugal threw everything they had at France, and came up short.
France gets by to the final with a 1-0.
Portugal has the inevitable task of playing Germany for 3rd place.
So, only two matches left!
Germany vs Portugal.
I predict Germany to win.
Then comes the game of the WC - FINAL!
And I have to say, I have no idea who will win. Italy is looking good, has an incredibly good and talented team. But then, so does France. It could go either way.
I pick France
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
binary, where are you from? You clearly have an outsiders view of soccer in the US. We do have Academies, well one that I'm aware of I understand everything you're saying but some of your facts are wrong and I just don't agree with your position of what it takes to make a successful team. I really am interested in your location however, that would help me understand where you're coming from with your point of view
quote: WebShaman said:
Sooo...Enough US this, US that.Only time and results will tell.
Ok mom
I forgot there's a third place match, they still play those the "I'd rather be on the beach right now" match. Hope Germany wins as the Portguguese have cemented their place in my mind as diving whininh cheating scum. I do hope Miguel's injury was not severe, he was Portugal's best player throughout, really impressive.
I've been an Italy supporter for a long time, gotta go with them. Let's win it for Pessotto! Forza Azzuri!
I'm from the US with my poor understanding of football and what not...
But I think to say the US was responsible for the only goal against Italy is kind of laughable. It was nothing more than a fluke...could have happened against any team.
-Chesta
(all my teams are out, I guess I'll be rooting for Italy, but I'd still be happy for Zidane if he went out with a flourish)
own goals come from pressure and the US putr Italy under a fair amount of pressure in that game, it wasn't rough justice that we shared the points, Lippi agrees
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 07-07-2006 06:33
Any team can score a goal against any other with luck.
Sure.
However, that goal was not really luck, but an enormous amount of offensive pressure that resulted in such a situation and occurance.
A team has to first GET themselves into such a position, and as Italy has shown (it only has that one goal from the US scored against it in the WC), it is very good at preventing opposing teams from scoring (in fact, they prevented the Germans from doing so, something no-one else managed to do!).
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Today's the day
After a month and 62 games the Final is now here, to be played at the Olympiastadion in Berlin at 7:00 GMT.
I've made it back (to my comfy chair, TV, and net connection) just in time. I must admit that I don't think I fancied either France or Italy at the start of the competition, but that's Football for you. These are the expected line-ups:
The main thing I am hoping for this final, is to watch a great open game and judging by how the ref's have relaxed their seemingly pathological need to blow the whistle and wave little red or yellow cards, it may just happen.
I wonder what the odds are for Zinedine Zidane scoring the winning goal? That is one dream like ending that could happen.
Righto, I'm off to look at the stats, and perhaps even check out the Wimbledon final too Federer v Nadal. I won't give the score so far in case it spoils someone else watching later.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but I ran across this today, and thought of you guys: FootieFox - Soccer scores for today's matches of many European leagues - live and almost instantly.
...well, I'll keep silly pictures out of the forum,
no profanity, just enjoying ~deserved victory.
How does it feel? Like when obi-wan beat anakin gone mad
Seriously, 4 world cups won, does it tell you something? And still, people argue.
Some always will.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 07-10-2006 00:20
I think that the Italians will be attempting to "justify" the win any way that they can - since it was not won on merit alone. That will hurt more than anything else, I should think.
That is why I hate Penalty Goal shootouts - they just do not represent the better team.
*shrug*
Still, a win is a win.
So enjoy it, Italy for what it is worth.
I wouldn't, even if it had been the US that had won. Undecided matches and Penalty Goals are inane IMHO.
But that is Soccer.
I will be in the US next year, so I will not really care anymore about Soccer. It was interesting while it lasted. Like Cricket, Rugby, Australian Footy, and Formula One racing.
I can't wait to get back into Baseball, Basketball, and American Football! No undecideds or Penalty Shootouts there!
And _Mauro, the facts speak for themselves. Ball possession, best Goal chances, etc decidedly give France the better game. They played better than Italy did. That much must be obvious, even to you.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Poor old ZZ blew his top good style. I too would like to know just why he did this, what was said? So too, would millions of others. Whatever was said, his actions were inexcusable, I still feel sorry for him though.
While this was not one of the great WC finals I did not think it was all that bad. Both sides cancelled out the other for a large part. There were chances for both teams to take the lead, and each team held the ascendency for larger parts of the match.
I think one of the disappointments of this WC final mirrored a general disappointment with the whole WC competition this year. The "big teams" did not perform as well as expected, and the "star" players in general, did not perform as well as they have for their club sides. That being said, I don't think any player, or team, can live up to the expectation that the media generate. The more financial investment in a player, club or competition there is, the greater the media spin and hype there is to generate more cash for the investors... (I spit in their direction)
L'Italia fatta pozzo, miséricordes France
Also, Italy winning on penalties? Who could have guessed that a few weeks ago.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 07-10-2006 01:14
quote:While this was not one of the great WC finals I did not think it was all that bad. Both sides cancelled out the other for a large part. There were chances for both teams to take the lead, and each team held the ascendency for larger parts of the match.
No, Italy held the 1st half. After that, it was mostly France.
From ball possession, to the amount of time spent in the opponent's side of the field, France dominated for the next 75 minutes after the first half (the second half and the two extended times).
But they did not score a goal in that time (obviously ).
As for Zidane...well, that was a rather spotty way to hang up a career. Whatever could have gotten into him?
Whatever.
It is over, Italy won.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: Darwin, NT, Australia Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 07-10-2006 01:39
Zizou is prone to that sort of behaviour, but what a time and place to let it get the better of you
Still, like ya said WS...... it's over...
I think it bodes well for Australian soccer that they held out against Italy until that fatefull moment.....the ghost of which will haunt soccer loving Aussies until the result is reversed
Least now we can start gettin' some sleep....... wonder how poor ol' Suho went finding a venue in Japan ta watch the match........
quote:While this was not one of the great WC finals I did not think it was all that bad. Both sides cancelled out the other for a large part. There were chances for both teams to take the lead, and each team held the ascendency for larger parts of the match.
I should have said large not larger I agree that Italy had the upper hand in the first half and France generally had it in the rest of the game.
This is the bit I really don't like. The realisation that I will have to wait till the year 2010 till the next World Cup Hopefully England will have a lot of time to practice penalty taking and getting a new manager to settle in and get a real team spirit going during that time. Fortunately, I support a world class club team (Liverpool FC) so wont be starved of international football for long.
I forgot to say thanks earlier to DL-44 for that FootieFox link I have not installed it yet, but it looks like it will be useful in the next season, slainte.
Happiness. That was riveting. That was an absolutely fantastic final. After 45 the Azzuri were showing they'd played 120 minutes recently but true to form their spirit, tactics, determination, everything just came together to make it happen. The french couldn't take it.
This is exactly what Italy needed right now with falling attendance in Serie A and the scandal crap going on. I hope justice prevails if proof is there, I think Juve is sunk but hopefully they don't crucify the sides on the periphery of this stuff just to look tough, the evidence agains Milan is not there from what I've been able to find.
I hope Zidane is not remembered for the dark things he's done in his career, I'm certain he won't. He's an absolutely magical player, he'lltake his place alongside the greats of days gone by, and he deserves it.
If anyone deserves a headbutt it's Materazzi Guy's a complete thug. I know he gave Zidane a nice little titty twister nipple tweak which ZZ walked away from, I'm sure whatever he said was deserving. Anyone that knows football knows to go at ZZ like this.
Grosso's price has gone so so up over the course of this last month (yes, a month, 7 games, think of that before you slag a WC winner) he was absolutely fantastic.
Cannavaro has no equal at the moment.
Gattuso is a man noone wants to play against.
great great stuff, the headbutt was jsut drama icing on my cake today. Thank you Zizou, that you ITaly!
I rushed out to a game myself 15 minutes after the medal ceremony/presentation and I got 4 goals I don't wanna go to sleep, wonderful day
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 07-10-2006 08:44
quote:After 45 the Azzuri were showing they'd played 120 minutes recently but true to form their spirit, tactics, determination, everything just came together to make it happen.
Errrr...not in the game that the rest of the world saw.
After the first half, we saw a beaten, tired, desperate Italy doing eveything that they could to stave off the game winning goal from France.
The true hero of Italy was the Keeper, rescuing Italy twice (Once from Ribbery, once from Zidane). He held well, very well (especially the header from Zidane...wow!).
But not in the Penalty shootout. He didn't hold at all. In fact, both Keepers were totally ineffective in the shootout (which is also a very unusual thing in and of itself!).
About the strangest, and perhaps saddest thing concerning the match : France literally gave Italy the win. Mistakes on the side of France secured the win for Italy.
And that is why I say the win is at best tarnished.
It is sad to see a WC Final won like that.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
I see Zinedine Zidane won the Golden Ball award for the World Cup's best player. I think the poll was taken before the infamous headbutt, but as far as I can see the result still stands.
Errrr...not in the game that the rest of the world saw.
who won the game? who won the tournament? Give credit where it's due, you don't luck into that or have it gifted to you by one team of 32 in the final game. Ask the teams of Brasil, Argentina, Germany, Spain, the Netherlands, Ghana, the US and 25 other countries that participated if Italy's fourth World Cup is tarnished.
I've bitten my tongue so many times in this thread webshaman. It's been hard to put up with your inept ramblings, but now that it's over and you wanna personally rain on my parade I'm not feeling like biting my tongue any longer. Your runnning commentary has made me laugh heartily. You clearly don't play, you're clearly not a fan, you clearly know not much about the sport, you've just graced us with 8 pages of dumbass. Why? In the end you say bah soccer to boot. It pains me to be so direct and cruel but I gotta lay the foundation, STFU just sounds temperamental.
You've shown no class whatsoever with that last post man. Four years people wait to watch a World Cup. A lifetime to watch your team win one. A lifetime playing and knowing what it takes, the real struggle and sacrififce you make to win a tournament like that. Then some knucklehead that clearly knows not a damn thing about the game comes and blows.
From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain Insane since: Dec 2000
posted 07-10-2006 21:11
rumorville
'According to several very well informed sources from the world of football, it would seem that the Italian player Marco Materazzi called Zinedine Zidane a 'dirty terrorist',' SOS Racism said in a statement.
IMHO .. being that I played soccer for over 15+ years and once played semi-pro soccer .. ZZ went out the best way possible .. the senerio .. ZZ isn't kicked doesn't do what he did and Italy still wins in PK .. would you as a player want your career to end in PKs! I KNOW I WOULDN'T .. every player I've ever known doesn't like games ending in PKs and I sure as hell don't .. so ZZ just went out the way he wanted to .. with controversy and style(headbutt to the chest, making a player look silly) .. I know I was laughing my ass off after a few of the replays the force and posture that ZZ put into that "header" against that player was simply amazing .. from this day forward that player will be the answer to a trivia question in from board game years from now or next year .. I give ZZ the "Biggest Balls" award! of any player I have ever watched!
ZZ enjoy retirement and thanks for the laugh! I've always wanted to do that to a player or two in my day .. kudos to you
On the topic of penalty shoot-outs, what would those people who dislike them have as an alternative? I'm not a great lover of them myself both as an ex player and a current supporter I would prefer to settle the game in normal or extra time. That said it does bring an extra dimension to the game which is very exciting. I have watched cup games where after extra time the game is stopped and another date is set for a replay, usually after a week. Somehow these games seem rather lacklustre to players and fans alike.
As it stands especially for the World Cup I think penalties AET (after extra time) is the better of the alternatives we have.
Waddia think?
rumorville'According to several very well informed sources from the world of football, it would seem that the Italian player Marco Materazzi called Zinedine Zidane a 'dirty terrorist','
there's been 4 different reports of what he's said that I've heard and none of them have come from Zidane or Materazzi so exactly that, rumors. Zidane himself refused to repeat wha he said to his agent saying only that it was a very bad thing he said. Two of the four reports that conflict each other are from paid lip readers, and completely different.
quote: Tao said:
Clarification please.
I wsn't sure what that meant either but I was fairly certain my response was appropriate
TAO: I'm not a fan of football, to say the least, but I think penalties do suck. In case of a draw after prolongations, the goal average of the teams should be used to pick the winner, and if that's not enough the time spent in the opposite side, ... well something that represents more the quality of the team.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 07-11-2006 08:28
Ok JKMabry.
You wanna go there?
First of all, I have played soccer. Over 6 years, to be blunt. But no, I do not play any more. My daughter does (she is on a local team here) and so does the son of my brother-in-law (he is a coach for the little ones here in Germany). So yes, I have a very good "grasp" of the game. I just do not enjoy it as much as you seem to, and I do prefer Baseball (played for 9 years, still play softball), Football (played for 6 years), and Basketball (played for over 25 years, and still play it when I get the chance).
Now, pull your head out of your behind, JK.
You know, pull on those rabbit ears of yours. When you hear the popping noise, you will know that is your head finally dislodging itself. And after the verbal diarrhea you have spat out, I am sure a breath of fresh air will do you good.
First of all, I never said that Italy did not deserve to be in the Final.
*looks through all the posts*
Nope, not once. Where you got that idea, is beyond me. Once again, a real nice bit of vocal vomit from you.
What I said is that they did not play as well as France did.
Second, the statistics back up my words...you have nothing to back up yours except for the end result - and I said as much.
Third, just about every "expert" that I have been able to find and read is saying the same along the lines I have - except for those who are Italian fans, of course.
Fourth, it doesn't matter what my personal tastes are/are not.
So, now that I have cleaned the dirt out of your ears, you are free, to stick your head back in your hole.
As for appropriate, right
Get a life.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: Darwin, NT, Australia Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 07-11-2006 09:03
On the topic of getting a result in a final; I'm a supporter of the "play on until one side scores" group.
I reckon that'd sort the men out from the boys.....back to back, ten minutes each way, and the first team to score wins
There seems to be almost universal contempt for the PK method of arriving at a result, and a replay is sort of an anticlimax..... as Tao mentioned, they always seem a bit flat.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 07-11-2006 10:49
I agree, Ian.
I do understand the reason(s) behind the Penalty shootout after extended times. One has to remember that all those players on the national teams are also players for some FC. They have, more or less, hefty contracts to fulfill there, and are "granted" the honor, so to speak, of playing for the national team.
But one doesn't want the player to become injured during WC play. Pushing the time after extended play (which is dangerous enough) to making the players play until a goal falls, does endanger the players health.
Thus, I would only suggest this system for either the final 4 games, or just the final.
Undecided is only really feasible and workable for the group playoffs (where points decide who goes on, and who does not). In the elimination rounds, one obviously cannot have an Undecided. This is where the problem with Soccer comes in (undecided).
There have been various attempts to "solve" this problem (Golden Goal, Penalty Shootoff, etc).
But having a Penalty Shootoff decide the final is really lame. Especially when the team that wins, has played worse than the team that lost.
Luck does play a role in Soccer. Any of the greats in Soccer will tell one that (and do). It is entirely possible for a team to play horribly, and win. There are examples enough of it.
It is just unpleasant when it happens.
As for the WC, where the world watches, we of course want to see the best that Soccer has to offer. And normally the Final Game provides it.
There have only been three instances of a Penalty Shootout for the Final (that I am aware of, anyway). The result of all three are somewhat tarnished, and do not really fulfill the promise which the Final is supposed to produce - the [b]UNDISPUTED[b] World Champion.
It is like watching a Heavy Weight bout for the title, and one wins on "points", barely squeeking through.
And to address JK - I find your vulgarity to be out of place and below you. I normally hold you in higher esteem. Your rather banal remarks and personal attacks on my character have managed to change my view and opinion of you to the negative. If that was your goal, then you succeeded nicely. I however am not Zidane and will not headbutt you for your poor sportsmanship and dirty mouth.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: Darwin, NT, Australia Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 07-11-2006 10:58
Just to clarify; I'm only advocating a "play on until one side scores" method to decide a tied final.
I think that, cruel as it is, PK is satisfactory as a means of deciding semi finals..... luck has a lot to do with it....that's life in general..... but four years bragging rights.....that's serious stuff
BTW That's a very valid point you make re contractural obligations etc.....damned money..... makes the world go 'round I suppose........not that most players at that level are short of money. I reckon if ya can't take a chance on losin' a few million whatevers if you're injured, ya maybe don't belong in a World Cup final playing for your country.
Sorry not much time for a proper reply just now, I've got to go talk to some people in suits about ticking the right boxes. Tick box mentality, for little tick box minds, but enough of my woes, I shall desist.
Here is a little game that might help to decide wether you like penalties or not I've only played it a little bit myself but I am naturally the World Champion already Penalty Shoot Out
In England we tried to have replays to decide the FA Cup Final a few years back but that proved to be unpopular with the fans who found the cost in £'s of the whole replay malarchy to be prohibative, tickets travel, time off work ect. I seem to remember the clubs and the sponsors rather liked it for some of the same reason£s.
Moon Shadow and poi:
I too, really disliked "players falling on the ground for no reason, simulating injuries, insulting and beating each other." That aspect has crept into the game slowly over time but is not an integral part of the game. Marauding "fans" running rampage through the streets has been seen to tarnish football too. They are NOT football fans, they are just idiotic criminals latching on to the game as an excuse.
No I do not enjoy that sort of show, but there is not a "total lack of fair-play", as you say. There are the majority of players who do play fair and well who sometimes are overlooked by the hysterics of the media.
I agree that cheating has to be eradicated wherever and whenever it is found in football.
In a war torn world full of greed and hate it is rather idealistic to expect two teams of paragons to be the norm. I would love it to be so but it is not going to happen in our lifetime i'm sorry to say.
I'd prefer the old (original?) method of deciding matches, the replay. That's very unlikely I'd think in this day and age where the global football calendar is sI'd prefer the old (original?) method of deciding matches, the replay. That's very unlikely I'd think in this day and age where the global football calendar is so packed down to the day. It'd be difficult for all the travellers with finals tickets to go home if their ticket was good for any replay, not to mention the profit factor of putting on 2 big shows at the price of one. Like them or not, and noone really does for deciding a final, it IS the accepted method and will likely continue to be. It's accepted, fair and it's part of the game, penalties in no way favor one side over another and it's known to both teams. It's simply a part of the game if it comes to that, like the kick off or a corner kick.
Replays would be great for the 1 billion atching on tv tho
WS: Your opinion of me honestly doesn't matter to me. Conversely I was wrong to defame you personally in public. I'm ashamed of my reply to you earlier when reading back through it. While it was honest and automatic, it sounds a bit calculated and crass. I assure you it's not crass, words speak, it's the meaning that you should take in, not the "dirty mouth". I concede the senitment was hurtful and for that I apologize, I could have possibly conveyed my displaesure without being so hurtful, which may have even resulted in you hearing me better. You don't make a whole lot of sense in your last two posts directed at me, but you are clearly miffed and don't get my meaning either. If you understood my words and believed them to be my honest feelings instead of just hurtful remarks (again, my fault) you would realize that I've restrained my self in accordance with my very well tuned sense of sportsmanship and kind regard. I supppose that's an illustration that holding things in can definitely cause a bit of an uncontrolled vent then ;]
We all see things from diverging points of view and that I can civilly and happily live with (and did for 8 pages). When someone comes in to address me personally in the midst of jubilation and piss on the fire of celebration ("Errrr...not in the game that the rest of the world saw..."), that's the very pinnacle of poor sportsmanship and I find that very difficult to tolerate.
In summary,you've shown a lack of class and sportsmanship Mr Materazzi, but I am compelled to apolgize for the headbutt, it was the heat of the moment.
I was cheering for France (actually, cheering against Italy) aswell. Italy winning always brings out all the fake soccer fans who just want to party because there grandfather's gardner once slept with an Italian man, and that makes them 1/13 Italian, and therefor huge soccer fans even though they've never watched a single game in their life...
But Italy won, that makes them the better team in my books. Unfortunate, but that's how it goes, you need to win to be the champions. If games were decided on stupid statistics there would be no point in playing them, we would just hand out an award every 4 years to the best team on paper.
As for Zidane: Congrats on retirement! *Still* my favorite player of all time.
^^ this no longer abt soccer...i guess this normal since the WC is over and
guys have nothing to discuss or bash....
quote: WebShaman said:
It was interesting while it lasted. Like Cricket, Rugby, Australian Footy, and Formula One racing.I can't wait to get back into Baseball, Basketball, and American Football! No undecideds or Penalty Shootouts there!
JKMabry:- To say the truth i was also shocked wen i read the above quote...i couldnt blv that someone..who was discussing the WC...for the last one month could say something like this....
or was WebShaman trying to pull ... a "ZIZZU" move..
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 07-12-2006 11:29
Oh, I was not kidding!
I do enjoy Baseball, Basketball and American Football much more than Soccer.
It is just that it is very hard to follow those sports here in Germany. And other than going to see a game of American Football played here in Germany (they do have a league), I don't have options to see professional games here.
But that will be changing next year!
Yeeeeaaaahhhh!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
WS and Ian , so are you suggesting for the WC Final that, after both teams have played 90 minutes of normal time then 30 minutes of extra time, that there should be further periods of extra time untill someone scores? ~goes back to check~ Yep, I think that is what you are suggesting.
I have to disagree with your analysis of the situation chaps. The WC as you know is played in all kinds of climates. After what should be a grueling 120 minutes of football I think it would be impractical for 22 players, who by this stage should be exhausted, to continue.
As has been mentioned before, serious injury is more likely to happen the longer the game is played through fatigue.
A replay say a week later is also impractical for the fans, and the chance of that game also going to extra time and still being undecided is a distinct possibility. I wont go into them now but there's also the huge difficulty this senario would present to players clubs, for the insurance, contracts, and planning for the next season.
Nope, it's not an ideal soloution but I still feel penalties are the best way to go.
Er, ok.
Just to round off the Zidane story, in a well stage managed interview with Canal plus in their 8:00pm news slot, Zizou apologises for headbutt, sort of.
quote:This was not something to do. I want to make it clear because it was watched by two billion people and by millions of kids. I want to apologise to them but I can't regret what I did because it would mean that he (Materazzi) was right to say what he said.
All in all I rather enjoyed this thread, a foray into all things World Cup. It started off a little shaky at first, rather tentatively. Then there were some long posts covering quite a few aspects of the game, with quite a few players getting involved too. In the mix we also had great plays and tangents covering football and socialism, football and fonts, football and widgets, football and technology and of course fooball and humour to name but a few.
I think it fair to say that, had they been used, there would have been a fair number of yellow cards given out during the nine pages of "play" too.
It was good for me and I hope it was for you too. See y'all in four years time
From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain Insane since: Dec 2000
posted 07-12-2006 21:42
Tao .. this extra period or alternate "suggestions" to finishing this game would have been simplified if only the Italian GK would have missed ZZ's beautiful header in extra time .. if that header would have found the back of the net .. we wouldn't be discussing this
instead let's talk about the "header" that ZZ displayed against the italian defender! hehe
Tao .. this extra period or alternate "suggestions" to finishing this game would have been simplified if only the Italian GK would have missed ZZ's beautiful header in extra time .. if that header would have found the back of the net .. we wouldn't be discussing this instead let's talk about the "header" that ZZ displayed against the italian defender! hehe.
Agreed Here's the poetry in motion just to remind ourselves of the grace and style involved (Plays three times so you need to refresh the page. I found it too "groundhog day" on continuous).
I am reminded of a scene from about (I think) five years ago when another Frenchman playing for Man United at the time, became so incensed by taunts from a supporter of the opposing team that he launched himself feet first, a' la Bruce Lee into the crowd from the touchline. Priceless. Points if you can guess his name.
Dramatic though that was it does not have the style or panache of the Zizou.
From: Darwin, NT, Australia Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 07-12-2006 23:45
^ Tao; yep that was what I was suggesting..... although no extra time, just 10 mins each way to a result
This would only be to resolve a locked grand final....... I've kicked it around before with players and spectators alike and there has been support; although I grant you.... this is a pointless dream
FWIW..... I'm not suggesting that it would always be a gruelling marathon..... the general con census - sample group 8 - is that it would change the way teams sometimes approach that last vital period....anyway.....
It's been a most enjoyable time, congrats all.... I can't really partake in the more technical aspects of the Asylum... too dumb... photog forum is struggling..... so this WC discussion has had it all
Zidane.....bring it on... It's not sporting I know, but I'm kinda coming 'round ta Ramm's take on this one... hella way to go out.... musta felt good... how often do we all haveta bite our tongue... ohhh yeeeeaaaah THUD
[sense] Organisation is anathema to organisations [/sense]
For some reason that link did not work for me binary, but this is what I was talking about. Ooo Ahh Cantona I think his was given a match suspension and community work to do for this. I think he was only trying to stamp out racism.
Crikey! how did I forget that? Yep, your right there J. Not only that but qualifying starts in September this year.
Uefa has decided to make changes to the qualifying format for 2008.
The qualifying phase consists of one group of eight teams (Group A) and six groups of seven teams (Group B-G).
There will be no play-offs - the top two in each of the seven groups will automatically go through to the finals.
The 14 qualifiers will join hosts Austria and Switzerland who are guaranteed their places at the finals.
When qualifying gets under way in September 2006, the teams will play each other country in their group home and away, with the final round of games taking place in November 2007.
The draw for the Euro 2008 finals is provisionally scheduled for December 2007.
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 07-13-2006 16:19
While the shoot out is a less than satisfactory way to determine a winner... it could, I think, be made much more tolerable by moving the ball back "X" many feet which, in my opinion, would allow the goalie to become a legitimate part of the play.
I say 'legitimate' because I don't think 'guessing' should be the determining factor...because let's face it... that's all the goalie is doing.... guessing where the ball might be going.
Look at the difference in the players over the past 20 years. Bigger, stronger faster. Toe of the boot has changed rather dramatically and what about that BALL! That thing moves now more than anyone could possibly have imagined even just 5 years ago.
As I see it... the only legitimateno goal we see today is when the 'striker' misses the mark. In all other penalty shots where the goalkeep stops the shot he's 'guessing' and you can see it every time.
I don't know how far you'd have to move the ball back... maybe it's 3 feet... maybe it's only a foot but I suggest there is a magic distance the ball could be moved back that would at least somewhat mitigate what the goalie faces in today's player...his boot and that damn ball.
So again I say... if the outcome's to be determined via a shoot out.... the goalkeep has to be a legitimate part of the play.
___________________________________________________________________________
You'll never have to think outside the box if you don't get in the damn box in the first place.
ooh argh Cantona
said ooh argh Cantona!
I think he was banned for 8 or 9 months Tao, that was the longest ban I've ever heard of. I think it was something about his mom, what's it with the frenchmen and thier mothers?
While I know that any provocation should be resisted during a match because I know that the provocateur would only be doing it to upset the rhythm of my football. I'm not too sure, if someone insulted my Mother or Sister, if I would not want to adjust their facial features to that of a duck-billed platypus. Red card or no.
[ed]Ah I see WS got a post in during the writing of my post, that happens to me a lot just recently, it just seems to take me so long to write a post nowadays. Yes respect is one of those things that used to be given, whereas nowadays it seems that people have to earn it. AH well there y'are.
NoJive, that's a novel idea that I have not heard before. It does not appeal to me at all but it is a new approach. I think if it is skill that you are looking for to decide the winner of a tied game then why not "keepie uppie"? Either "mono e mono" or "uno en uno" as I think it should be written, or a select few from each team?
From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain Insane since: Dec 2000
posted 07-14-2006 16:55
why not have the pk's taken at the mid-line(much like hockey) .. the goalie can move out and challenge the player .. give the goalie more of a chance and changes the challenge that the players face .. I believe MLS in the states practices this in the early stages of the league
Yes respect is one of those things that used to be given, whereas nowadays it seems that people have to earn it.
This is how I operate, respect is given, not earned. With me you can only lose my respect. World would be a better place if we harkened back to a day where respect was a given.
quote: RammStein said:
why not have the pk's taken at the mid-line(much like hockey) .. the goalie can move out and challenge the player .. give the goalie more of a chance and changes the challenge that the players face .. I believe MLS in the states practices this in the early stages of the league.::. cEll .::. 513
They did indeed do this, the taker started at the 35 yard line and had I believe 5 seconds to net it. The keep could of course come off his line at any time. The US Soccer fans hated it because it was a bastardization of the game. These "shootouts" were used to decide games because the marketing boys figured the American public couldn't handle ties. The outcry was such that shootouts are gone and ties are points shared like everywhere else on the planet.
As for the method itself it allowed for more opportunities to display clever skills but it had it's problems too, most noteably the clock that ran 5 seconds and displayed to the hundredths of a second. Making sure the ball crossed the line with time left was a source of controversy. With the rule change to allow ties it became moot but I don't think it could equal the drama of penalties as a knockout game decider, and it's much easier to judge for the ref crew, less controversy.
Shootouts, golden goals, silver goals, replays, they've been trying stuff for a hundred years and it always comes back to penalties if undecided after 2 full overtimes. That's the only thing that everyone seems to be able to accept as justice and logistically possible. All the same though, everyone still hates to see a big game or big tournament go down to penalties.
I've accepted penalties fully and I love the opportunity it affords to either explode or implode as that deciding spot kick goes where it goes.
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 07-14-2006 23:33
^Perhaps so. But I do think that if the goalkeep actually, and in reality, had the opportunity, make that the 'possibility' of using his SKILLS as have, the other players for the full and extended 'time' .... then if the outcome is decided by a shootout... I wouldn't have too much trouble accepting the end result.
But if...as it did... or does, come down to the goalkeep 'guessing'.... that's a bag of something soft and squishy....and if you've ever changed a diaper you know what I mean. =)
Give the goalie a chance... and I can deal with it.
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You'll never have to think outside the box if you don't get in the damn box in the first place.
News just in. Italian trio relegated to Serie B Serie A sides Juventus, Lazio and Fiorentina have been demoted to the second division for their involvement in Italy's match-fixing scandal.
I can just hear the English premiership checkbooks flipping open
Ramm and NoJive, please come on now, next thing you'll be saying that the ball's the wrong shape, and if the players are saying they really are hurting themselves by falling over , why don't they wear protective armour, and also extend the goal posts upwards by say, thirty or forty feet. Then to add even more skill they should be able to pick the ball up and run with it????
I hope someone is keeping track of all these suggested changes, we could have a new game on our hands. (Or feet,heh)
posted 05-26-2006 03:12
::cell::
WHich two teams are you supporting, I think from memory it is either Italy or Switzerland?
)
I think I'll look for a stream.
The US looked completely impotent, early goal killed them from the go. Wussies need to suck it up and leave everything on the field against Italy
]
!
.....then they r done
