Topic: Ugh... back end programers... what to do? (Page 1 of 1)

Seems like I'm not alone with some of the problems I've read in this area. How would you handle this situation?

I got paid to develop a site for a client. They wanted an online store. I don't know how to build that so I hire a friend of mine to help me out with that section.
After taking waaay to long to develop it, it runs fine for like 6 mos. then for no reason the cart stops working. And my good buddy is no where to be found.
I look like an ass to my client.

Fast forward 2 years...

So I'm trying to rebuild my relationship with the company as they have 3 more sites they need built. BUT, the store is still fried. So I apologize, explain the situation and they are appeased. I then get a small amt. of money to hire another developer to rebuild the store for me.... He commited to getting it done within a week or two, "just get me a deposit" he says. So I shell out the deposit out of my pocket, and pushing over 2 weeks still no work done.

After a frantic email, and phone call, I am relieved to hear the store will be up by Tuesday.

Is it really that difficult to have a good working relationship with back end programmers? Granted, this guy is probably one of the smaretest guys I've ever met, it's still frustrating.

(sigh.... just venting)

Dunno. I've never had a "client" relationship with a developer. It certainly is different in that case.


No offense, but what you describe sounds quite amateurish, including the back-end programmers. I see no where any mention of QA, use of a versioning system, different environments, a project mailing list, something looking like a roadmap, ...


Commerce sites have specific needs in term of security and privacy. IMHO if you don't know what you're doing, you should simply stay away. There are things one can improvize, and things one shouldn't.


I've been a back-end ( PHP ) programmer for a couple of years. I admit to know squat about commerce sites and the security inherent to them, therefore I would never have touched such a site with a 10 feet pole. And I still wouldn't try to implement one alone today.

Today, 99% of my time is spent doing front-end. My 2 office mates are back-end ( Java ) programmers, one of whom is still quite young but really know his shit about security. They both are easy going. We go out, play ping pong, go snowboard, ... together. And yet we deliver stuffs.


So I'd say. No. Back end programmers are people after all



(Edited by poi on 02-28-2007 22:38)

Well, as one of those crazy developer people, I can tell you this: subcontracting is a bad, bad thing to do to anyone. First it places you into the situation of having to manage a project when you obviously have no interest in doing so, and it puts an unnecessary strain on the client relationship, in that they hired you to do work, and you end up hiring someone else to do part of it.


Now, I can understand winning a project that you are under-qualified for (I've done that on one or two occasions over the past decade), but the trick is to use the situation as a reason to learn something new.

The very first web site that required programmatic development I won back in '97, and I didn't know a damn thing about PHP, but won the project because I said I did. I turned around and, over the weekend, learned as much about the language as I possibly could. Then I did the work. And I was paid. I was paid to learn stuff. That's a good feeling.


Now, I can understand the certain reticence in learning the guts of PHP, but there are myriad benefits. First and foremost, you won't have to subcontract ever again.




All that said, let me remind you that we developers are notoriously bad at deciding how long systems will take to code. I've been off by weeks before, and I've had to own up to that. My rule of thumb now is to come up with my estimate, and then doubling it. Generally keeps me safe. It could be that this guy you've hired to do the work simply got caught up in the mire of that situation and didn't want to own up to it. That's fine. But programming, despite its name, is not all that programmatic. It's got creativity requirements, critical thinking, problem solving--all that good stuff.



And two bad experiences in the past two years isn't half bad.

-steve

Just keep in mind how a post title like that is going to go over in a board full of those pesky back-end programmers...

dl-44:

rob: sounds like two bad backend-programers in a row. Honestly, if you agree to a deadline, you need to hold it, come hell or high water, and that's why I prefer doing business with small business that have at least a few programers, instead of a guy of the street.

So long,

->Tyberius Prime

They are a curious bunch that's for sure, but I think the two you came across really stood out in that crowd as arse-holes.

Like Poi, I would generally stear clear of having to build a commerce site, especially if it had a tight deadline of 2 weeks! OMG. I also wouldn't bother trying to build it myself, not when the excellent Shopify exists, it's free to setup, very customizable, and includes hosting, they do take 3% of each sale though.

Cheers,

TP - I think you've misunderstood...

As for the 2 developers in question, I wouldn't say they stand out as 'arse-holes' so much as the circumstances stand out as not being conducive to professional standards.

FWIW

I totaly agree about staying away... it was kind of a bittersweet deal. The way the whole project went down is they originally wanted to hire my wife as a marketing consultant and I happened to get brought into the conversation. Over a casual lunch meeting they told me what they wanted in a website for their company. (Flash, Informative, Store) That was basically it.

Now as twitch mentioned, I didn't know shit about flash design but I said i did to get the gig. i knew the basics. And the site itself, though some of you would hate it, and butcher it to death, looked pretty decent. I look at it now and cringe, but they were more then happy with it.

Now the store part I told them straight that I didn't know jack about that but I know some people that do and could help out.
First thing I noticed is that most serious companies don't realize how much an ecommerce site costs to setup and maintain. I give props out to any coder that does it, and does it well.

I've tried to learn basic php but the only part of php I use frequently is the include() and email forms.

Thanks for the link Blaise, I wish I had found this sooner! I'm in the process of converting my existing PayPal store to this. AWESOME!

Oh and another reason I got the gig doing the website is that I created a jingle for the company as well as several commercials and print material so they are familiar with my work.

and btw, i meant no offense to any programmers here. i think i could learn spanish before I learn what you guys do.....



(Edited by Radical Rob on 03-02-2007 19:57)

Hey just to keep you updated, the programmer STILL hasn't gotten back to me and now I'm pretty screwed. SO, I'm trying to salvage the project using Shopify. Thanks again Blaise!

Anyone familiar with customizing it? I just need to tweak a few things and I'll be happy with it.

cheers!

Glad to know it's being put to good use, I've not used it myself, but I've always kept an eye on it for when I do need a commerce site.

I've only ever used my own e-commerce class structure, but if you email me the source and tell me what you want to do, I'd be able to point you in the right direction.

-steve