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poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 03-13-2008 10:48 Edit Quote

InI/Mauro/argo navis/argo/Alf/toast: In a nutshell, my, and that of many people in the web development community, approach and goals are to make customers and as many users ( include those with disabilities ) as possible happy.

toast
Obsessive-Compulsive (I) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Mar 2008

IP logged posted posted 03-13-2008 15:16 Edit Quote

poi, no offense meant : I mean what I say, and nothing else this time around. As I said, if the whole world thinks something is good
and I don't see why or don't want to abide completely, something nobody ever managed to do is to force their views on me by any means.

However, you have convinced me that LI is fit for the purpose of a navigation. I am yet to be convinced about some css things -
I would much favor seeing them in real world to seeing their potential benefits in a book. The best of intention prevents nobody from being wrong.

For the rest, read TP's link on the previous page, please do - banning, insulting, (including mine, first and foremost), racism against chocolate makers, etc...
is no way to adress an issue of this kind in real world, and even more on the web, it IS avoidance. Working it through reasonably is the solution
I have called for from the start of this thread/drift.

At some point I'll answer Webshaman's last post about this all, but not right now.


I have - in full awareness - received everybody's qualms in the face, gone through the humiliations, taken the baits that were obvious,
dreaming it would help you/me get it off our chests systems. This has worked for me. What about you? What can I do to make you smile
rather than grin or giggle?

Wes
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Inside THE BOX
Insane since: May 2000

IP logged posted posted 03-13-2008 23:32 Edit Quote
quote:
racism against chocolate makers



This made me laugh. Seriously, your ability to distort the simplest things into major, yet nonexistent, issues astounds me.

toast
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Mar 2008

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 00:01 Edit Quote

Nonexistant not : there is an issue of mental constipation around here, independent of me, and I am not talking about you in particular,
I basically had nothing against you before that other day - but let's call it even and wait for TP's return, at least that's what I'll do.

Btw, ever considered the aforementionned "distortion" could be favored by the fact that english is not my primary language,
and also by the fact that there is an eagerness to :
- suggest that Arthurio may be me
- be slightly harsh to kimson in yet another suspicion she could be me

And other misconceptions that clutter any possibility of communication? I thought we were through with shooting the sh*,
but please deliver all your anger if you have some left, it's necessary before anything can be adressed constructively.

FWIW.

Arthurio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cell 3736
Insane since: Jul 2003

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 00:30 Edit Quote

The suggestions that I may have been you were rather humorous as I perceived them ...

toast
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Mar 2008

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 00:47 Edit Quote

Some other people have made similar suggestions on a very serious note - Nemesis I think,
and a couple of others, this is a very real question in the minds of some inmates, don't take my word -
ask them. I know kimson was hurt by some things she heard for one, it sadens me a lot.

I hate to speak on her behalf, I HATE that - she admires the crowd and has always been a great asset,
all a more reason for her not to have to suffer. Please, she's close to my heart for the great personality
you can't deny she has.

Those few times were not on a humorous note. I've struggled, and really struggled, to divert
negativity from the Elastic Menu thread - some may think I cared to "whine" about Tao's intervention there
for the sake of being cuddled.

Do I look like someone who, specifically in this very thread, minds not being cuddled that much?
Do I really sound, to you Arthurio, like someone who's full of shit about his whereabouts?
Answer freely, I told you, I am out of anger supplies.

I cast a separate "Witch Hunt" thread back then in the dhtml forum because it was getting out of control
for almost nothing - yes, the original friction with poi was small, and he was right in his intent (not his words,
he admitted to being a bit blunt - as this is a tone quite common to demo sceners who cultivate elitism -
as shitty as elitism is).

Tao's reaction was, wether you care to admit it or not, threatening the integrity of that very thread -
he truely is the person who, as unusual as it seems from him, said the first explicitely offensive words
there. And bare with me as this is NOT about putting more blame on anyone.

These are not the only problems of this kind - Webshaman, for one, has been difficult to some
people lately, hell bent on "sticking to moral standards" that are his. Specifically his,
and taking deep at heart duties beyond his duties - namely, an apparent duty of "purifying the holy grail".
.....................................

The problem is not the words, the exact times, the size of threads, the problem is not post count,
size doesn't matter and none of that crap is relevant to anything :
the problem is a lot deeper than that and doesn't affect only me - unfortunately.


Part of it, a huge chunk of it, stems from the deep resentment some feel towards me - legit or not,
those very people are not forced to read, judge, threaten, me at the very first sign of anything.
Not only they DO, they carry it outside of their relationship to me.

No I am no angel and have not been these past days - but it's better to have it OUT IN THE OPEN
rather than lurking in the closet - hell it's a 1000 times healthier EVEN AT THE COST OF DANCING
A MONKEY DANCE and coming back as toast.

Wes
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Inside THE BOX
Insane since: May 2000

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 03:02 Edit Quote
quote:
Btw, ever considered the aforementionned "distortion" could be favored by the fact that english is not my primary language



Then perhaps you yourself should consider that before responding to other people's posts, no?

toast
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Mar 2008

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 03:19 Edit Quote

What does it change and what is it relevant to? I mean, yes, certainly there is an effort to be made on both sides - certainly.
But the "root cause" still lies underneath this simple observation.

Regarding yourself, I was happilly in the midst of standing the 24th post about the girlfriend I don't have and those I never had,
the job I lied about, the money I don't earn, threats of physical violence, and God knows which other things I have hardly seen
anyone resort to - I may have misread and I don't care to re-read, but still, it shows the spirit of the moment and you're no angel,
but you're not the person who has performed the most spectacular outrages.

And this is not a fucking contest, pardon my french, but it sure seemed to be - can't we all do better than this?
I've not put those words in those people's mouth : they are assumedly responsible of their acts as you and me.

So maybe - just maybe, we'd be better off using those brains together to adress the underlying issues : I have resorted to some of the necessary means
to dispel those accusations out of having no alternative to stop the show, although, once again, I do not want to look back on what's been said and done.

I want to look at the CAUSE and fix it, and it still takes "two" to make a thing go right or wrong.
Maybe, maybe, pointing fingers time should come next to : SOLVING the problem for you and me.

I have things to propose to that effect - other then murdering me or rolling me in tar and feathers.

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 03:55 Edit Quote

I want to apologise for the length of this post. I would not normally write one like this but I feel I must use all these quotes in order to get to the truth of the matter.
I know it is tempting to just skip through this but I implore you to be patient and try to wade through. It means a lot to me to try to clarify what has become a tangled mess.


I'm completely sick of all this.

I see WebShaman has already tried to clarify what seems to have started all this. I now want to add to that but I'm going to start at the beginning again.

In reply to this post by argo navis:

quote:
Arthurio : don't take it bad, but comments like this..

quote:
Right now your menu just feels wrong



Are just as useful to me as how many noodles you've had for supper yesterday. Screencaps, for example, make such feedback MUCH more useful.
bottom line - giving feedback should be about "how the other guy can USE it" to be constructive. How can I use your feeling, if I don't understand it?
It's sad because with some proper phrasing, it would help a lot. (for example, since I have updated the page about 5 times and republished before you posted, I am NOT even sure which version your are talking about
- let alone understanding how you FEEL about it from this distance).

Understand also that Doc's approach is completely different (he uses px positioned layers and absolute positionning afaik, as opposed to % in my case, and relative positionning) also.
The trade is clear and simple : easier to maintain in my case, but I get to have to deal with liquid design challenges.
The similarity stops in that they both are brown elastic menus.

I also would like to point out that some advice can be negative even - like poi's desire to stroke a *right way* to do things as IF THERE WAS SUCH AN ABSOLUTE IDEAL.
The only "right" way, imho, is one that works as expected. Comments of that kind are both a helper, and a pain in the ass depending on how it is balanced :
I've been in IT for 10 years, poi is VERY FREQUENTLY recommending his way as the best.

Not only he makes me feel like he looks down on me - thank God I do not take it personal, but the above "quick sample" he whacked together is not exactly impressive,
nor is it getting the job done. It's clearly 5 miles away of a usable widget in the context where I need it.
That's why I always seem to be rejecting poi's feedback firsthand : all respect where it is due, but..
ALL I GIVE A DAMN ABOUT HERE ARE DESKTOP/LAPTOP BROWSERS, THE MAIN AND MOST RECENT ONES, AND HAVING THINGS WORK RAPIDLY SO I CAN BUILD UP THE REST.

LI has turned out to be the most obsolete thing in this case - 0 benefit for some wasted time.
And the single timer approach, while correct if I wanted to spare resources for display on a C64, is adding more constraints than it is helping SO FAR.

These are among the reasons why I didn't ask for poi's example when he offered it.


Now please, all of you who genuinely want to help me, concentrate your efforts on the site reviews where another important website for my business is getting
a lifting. And since I am done with updating the elastic part of my menu, feedback is relevant from now on - but make it clear, I don't have the time so sort
between "feelings", "impressions", "emotions", a thing for web standards, and all other things that I can't derive facts from.



I replied :

quote:
Great way to alienate people who have been trying to help you argo navis.
You come across as an arrogant self absorbed person.

You have deceived or tried to deceive all of us from your very first post at the Asylum so I think you should be the LAST person to preach about the right and wrong way to post here.
I think you should tread very carefully, remember what problems you caused here in the past? They are not forgotten.



WebShamen is correct in saying that I did not see poi's answer because poi posted just one minute before my response to you.

argo navis then responded with

quote:

""They are not forgotten.""
I don't see how this is supposed to be MY problem, for starters : it is YOUR memory that you want to hold on to.



It is your problem argo navis because you should be aware that just because you use a different name does not mean that all your previous history is magically forgotten. How can it be? I read into that post I responded to that you were being an arrogant bully. Don't forget that that was before poi's reply.

You (argo navis) continue in the same post:

quote:
I remember reporting clumsilly that an extra slash would open up doors to the back side of the Asylum - yes the way
to report it was clumsy, but I don't remember having done any actual harm in that regard. I remember other negative things,
coming from me, and ABSOLUTELY not relevant to anything you've just said.

I remember hundreds of people moronically picking up on the extra slash thing - without understanding any of the technical implications.
Wether you want to resurrect that trend or not is entirely NOT under my control,
and the above four lines are as much as you'll get from me here regarding the topic : like it? Don't like it? Don't threaten me


I have no idea what you are talking about here, none whatsoever.

Then in answer to this sentence of mine "You have deceived or tried to deceive all of us from your very first post at the Asylum"
You continue:

quote:
A simple question, no judgement : are you on alcohol? Just to know if it's worth an extended discussion about THIS right now - I don't remember you around
at the time of my very first post. I remember I was a Mad Sci working my ass off to answer hundreds of questions on the other hand.
So how exactly have I "deceived" or "tried to deceive" you? I suggest you do two things about that :
wait until the vapors go, and open another thread where the flames you want to bring won't mix with tech talk.

Then, if the tone of my post sounds slightly agressive, it's because I know poi can take criticism as well - just as he took mine, without offenses



First of all starting off a sentence with things like "don't take it bad, but " does not mean that whatever you say will not actually be taken as offensive. That is the ploy of a manipulative bully.
So you say to me "A simple question, no judgement : are you on alcohol?"
Who do you think you are? you and I and probably everyone else knows that ""A simple question, no judgement : are you on alcohol?"" is a very thinly veiled insult designed to goad the recipient, in this case me.
Then there is this from that same quote^^ "So how exactly have I "deceived" or "tried to deceive" you? I suggest you do two things about that :wait until the vapors go, and open another thread where the flames you want to bring won't mix with tech talk."

I think you know I was talking about you as "argo navis", not as "InI". Why? because I was answering argo navis's post. Because in the very first line I addressed you "argo navis"

quote:
Great way to alienate people who have been trying to help you argo navis.



Then in the last bit of that^^quote you say "wait until the vapors go, and open another thread where the flames you want to bring won't mix with tech talk.
Then, if the tone of my post sounds slightly agressive, it's because I know poi can take criticism as well - just as he took mine, without offenses


Hah, "vapors" (another dig) You saying I am bringing flames? Total nonsense! Read my post again, and it is painfully obvious from the posts that followed in the thread I started about "Things that define us" that you and poi were at odds with each other.

It was at this time that I went away from the discussion and off-line but I managed to get to a library to post this to further clarify the situation.

quote:
I'm in a library far from home so I have to make this brief, but be assured I'll get back to this when I get back home.
It is you argo navis/InI who came back here after causing problems DEMANDING that all your threads be deleted or else you were going to sue. Came back here with another name pretending not to know InI, in a decietful and manipulative way,
If you think everone here can just forget that, you are wrong. It would have been better to be open and truthful in the first instance.



By the time I returned home and so to an internet connection the thread you started called Witch hunt is on!! had more or less ended with DL-44's post and it had dropped a fair way down and completely out of the recent threads feed. I decided to do what was suggested and leave it buried.

In an attempt to clarify to everyone who wanted to know, I started the thread Things that define us
In that first post I said

quote:
In our on-line lives, like here at the Asylum, the main thing that defines us to others are our words and how we use them, at least that is how it seems to me. It did not take long for me to realise that it is so very easy to write a post to a forum, in anger, without much thought, only to regret it later. I now take great care in my posts to try not to offend or insult. I also realise that there are people who post here who are not native English speakers so some latitude is needed when reading their posts, although I have to say the standard of English here is very high, from both native and non-native speakers.

This is why, you may see me from time to time take a person to task who I believe is being a bully in some form or other, whether they realise it or not. I understand that I run the risk of misinterpreting the situation but it's a risk I'm willing to take. This world can be a cruel nasty place, I have no time for people who want to add to that misery.



"honesty and communication are key factors."

In that thread when I asked you about your honesty you agreed with the above statement. You also supplied links to where you say you apologised for lying to the inmates in general when you came here as argo navis.
This is the quote you supplied:

quote:

Okay. It certainly is time to give it away. <drum roll>
Firstly, I am sincerely sorry for the way I sneaked in : I wanted to spread a new, and natural image of myself before revealing the truth. I *do* feel bad about the comedy bit of it, and ask for apologies.
If I had landed back *under the sunlight*, it would have been *creepy vibes* allover the place, and I did not want that either.



Now understand this.
That apology was for this current deceit, pretending not to be the person who demanded all his previous posts were deleted completely. Pretended not to be the person who threatened Doc Ozone as well as anyone connected with the running of the Asylum with court action if his demands were not met. It was that pretence, that deceit, in coming here as "argo navis" that you apologised for.

You have not apologised for all the threats you made.
You have not apologised for demanding that Doc Ozone remove all traces of InI's post.
You have not apologised for putting the Doc and anyone connected with running the Asylum through all the stress of contemplating immediate court action if your demands were not met

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have more or less finished now I just want to address a couple of things in your recent post, this last one I read before starting to write this nearly two hours ago.

Arthurio wrote about my comment (" You're not argo navis are you") on what kind of person we think he/she is.
Arthurio said

quote:
The suggestions that I may have been you were rather humorous as I perceived them


Completely correct, that is exactly how I intended it to be received.

argo navis said

quote:
Tao's reaction was, wether you care to admit it or not, threatening the integrity of that very thread
he truely is the person who, as unusual as it seems from him, said the first explicitely offensive words
there. And bare with me as this is NOT about putting more blame on anyone.



So just what is it about then?
Let's look at my reaction then shall we?
My initial post:

quote:
Great way to alienate people who have been trying to help you argo navis.
You come across as an arrogant self absorbed person.

You have deceived or tried to deceive all of us from your very first post at the Asylum so I think you should be the LAST person to preach about the right and wrong way to post here.
I think you should tread very carefully, remember what problems you caused here in the past? They are not forgotten.



I do not think I was threatening the integrity of your thread with that and I also do not think that they were "explicitely offensive words"

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 04:10 Edit Quote

I also think that a person who has learned four languages as you say you have "whatever your name is now". should be extremely aware of the importance of the choice of words you use.

One more thing, I do care about the Asylum. I know what it is like for people who may visit here or even become a member, when they see such aggressive language as you use "whatever your name is now". I believe your behaviour here will be very off putting for a lot of new arrivals.

toast
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Mar 2008

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 04:42 Edit Quote

Tao : that is NOT the problem at hands, at all. None of this, I haven't read a single line.
This is not about rethoric, this is not about reprimand, this is not about finding faults, you're late,
and you've apologized way too much.

When it was easy not to take a threatening tone firsthand : you'd be the bigger person not by cluttering this thread
with more debating, but with solutions. Do you have such a solution?

I do.
Can you apply your own advice and take it with a grain of salt for a change?
And in addition, propose concrete enhancements to the situation. THAT is what it's all about here and now.

quote:

You have deceived or tried to deceive all of us from your very first post at the Asylum



How relevant is this to anything but your feelings? In an otherwise worthy thread about some nice menu techniques everybody
still enjoys? How oblivious is it to the many ways I fostered development of the dhtml area during my mod service
AMONG GOODS I DID AT SOME POINT? Those goods include working my ass off to help you get the hang of Ubuntu AMONG THINGS.

How oblivious is it for people like Suho, so calm and balanced, to quietly suggest you post such spastic expressions
in another place of the forum? Why did you feel compelled to doing this when poi did not take offense AT FIRST
and used the same tone to me?

But MORE IMPORTANTLY, HOW DOES REHASHING THIS SOLVE THE PROBLEM AT HANDS? I am glad you have vented,
but please, let's move ON.

Short of seeing a way we could practically handle the situation towards a win-win solution, I propose you think about it all for some more time.
------------------------------------------------------

quote:

You have not apologised for all the threats you made.
You have not apologised for demanding that Doc Ozone remove all traces of InI's post.
You have not apologised for putting the Doc and anyone connected with running the Asylum through all the stress of contemplating immediate court action if your demands were not met



I have. More than once, even.

But it still is relevant to nothing, short of making you feel better - I could apologize a gazillion times,
and I think you'd still crap your straightjacket in an absurd, self fullfilling prophecy of hostility.

Correct me if I am wrong : if I would apologize (for the third time now) for those things, what would you do?

(Edited by toast on 03-14-2008 04:52)

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 05:08 Edit Quote
quote:

toast said:

Tao : that is NOT the problem at hands, at all. None of this, I haven't read a single line.


How can you comment on my post if you did not read it?

You show no respect for this place or the people in it.

quote:

Tyberius Prime said:

Argo: I do not wish to see you here for a few days. Go for a long walk while I read up on this burst of activity in the last few days.
Oh, and please find somebody who can serve as your advocate - I don't wish for you to talk your own head off.


You don't give a toss do you?


You also did not "AMONG GOODS I DID AT SOME POINT? Those goods include working my ass off to help you get the hang of Ubuntu AMONG THINGS"
Don't be pathetic....you did nothing of the sort.

I've had it with you "whatever your name is now" I have no wish to feed your ego any more. I maintain that you are a self-centred self obsessed, manipulative bully, weather you realise it or not is moot.

WebShaman said

quote:
I am not clearing Tao of his side of the flames, btw. He is just as guilty in the involvement. Tao later apologized, if you remember, for his negative participation in things.



Webshaman I think you have been put in an extremely difficult position over the past week or so. I am very disappointed with the Asylum Mad Sci's for not mediating in the Asylum as much as they used to. As far as I could see you have had these problems to deal with yourself on your own. That must have been both difficult and thankless. There is very little input now from the various forum mediators in the Big Sig, Photography, Photoshop, I could go on.

I am not apologising for anything I said I believe what I said was reasonable. The worst that could be said is that I went a little over the top. I did not flame anyone

(Edited by Tao on 03-14-2008 05:08)

toast
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Mar 2008

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 05:10 Edit Quote
quote:

I also think that a person who has learned four languages as you say you have



This is a brilliant way to walk in the footsteps of Jestah on this one, or Hugh :
Io hablo español, I speak english obviously, je parle français couramment, parlo italiano and I could give technical advice in any of those,
to state the level at which I have taken them.

What's up with the assumptions? Instead of making me more sensitive to
a single letter of a single word, it makes me aware that in each one of those languages, two different persons will
have two different perceptions of a given sentence anyhow.

To me, it's not the words : it's the constant dwelling on the same topic of you and others that is exhausting.
But it's not completely your fault - nor is it truely mine.

It's EVERYBODY INVOLVED's fault to a degree in ANY event - there is no one sided conflict.
I'd have hoped you'd have learnt that somewhere on your lifeline - it is not YOU who I dislike, it is the uselesness of
what you contribute to this bonfire : more fuel. Bring water instead.

THREAD THAT GOT TAO STARTED WITH UBUNTU :
http://www.ozoneasylum.com/29369

Quote :

quote:
A very timely thread for me, thanks argo navis and a belated welcome too.



...

This is above me. Of all the people I have known, I am seriously stunned. Seriously. I have never seen that -case- before.
HELLOOO! I am the same helpful person who stimulated your very enthusiasm for Linux. Planet earth to Tao : FULL STOP.

*hands his supply of black pills over to Tao*

(Edited by toast on 03-14-2008 05:23)

toast
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Mar 2008

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 05:36 Edit Quote

I only have a song, when things have drifted to such a blatantly false perception of reality, that comes to mind.
I am shaking... shaking in awe : you remind me of my recently deceased friend who was on psychedelic drugs - this is no insult,
this is making me shake as I remember the shock of learning the news. As I remember him talking to furniture
in the last days I saw him.

quote:

See the animal in it's cage that you built
Are you sure what side you're on?
Better not look him too closely in the eye
Are you sure what side of the glass you are on?
See the safety of the life you have built
Everything where it belongs
Feel the hollowness inside of your heart
And it's all
Right where it belongs

[Chorus:]
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection
Is it all you wanted to be?
What if you could look right through the cracks?
Would you find yourself
Find yourself afraid to see?

What if all the world's inside of your head
Just creations of your own?
Your devils and your gods
All the living and the dead
And you really are alone
You can live in this illusion
You can choose to believe
You keep looking but you can't find the woods
While you're hiding in the trees

[Chorus:]
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you used to know
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection
Is it all you wanted to be?
What if you could look right through the cracks
Would you find yourself
Find yourself afraid to see?



http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=ngfgHweIvDk (superb piano).

TP. Webshaman. Tao. EVERYONE. Are YOU sure what side you're on?

...

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 05:44 Edit Quote

If you read that thread you will see that I was already contemplating Linux I was already looking into the various flavours.
You did not stimulate my interest you posted "A very timely thread "
If anything watching you make the choices tipped the balance for me as to what linux to start with.

Anyway.....Bye bye. There is no reasoning with you. I'll let you carry on without me

toast
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Mar 2008

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 06:21 Edit Quote

In the mentionned thread - I carry on for four pages documenting ever step of my installation,
which I later started transposing to the faq.

Among things that pop up later in that thread FROM YOUR MOUTH :

quote:

Thanks Blaise, C:\ and argo navis.
I went to the Kubuntu website and ended up downloading two versions. the first being, PC (Intel x86) alternate install CD. and the second, PC (Intel x86) desktop CD. Why? Well I downloaded the "alternate" one by mistake
My machine specs are:
Abit AMD64bit KN9 Ultra MoBo

Thanks for that argo navis I need all the help I can get at the moment



You were contemplating it and thanked me many times there for what?
Okay.

Okkkkkkaaaaaaayyyyyyy. And that is supposed to represent honesty @ the once admirable Asylum?
On your way out, say hello to the pink elephants on my behalf Tao. Substance abuse is a truely dramatic issue,
never had I thought I was spot on when I made that comment in the dhtml forum.

But this explains a lot. Sadly.

I will keep posting my questions to genuine helpers in dhtml and site reviews until I find a better forum for marketing/webdesign,
I am done here.


quote:

A tip to TP before I go : you mentionned community shatterrers and that filtering solution as that.
A major way to hinder the perceived value of the Asylum is to keep that InI message :
think about it. Think about who it makes look like a fool to the world : two parties.
This community. And me in the context of this community - InI and just that. Identifiable only here :
for the rest of the web I am argo or Mauro.

Like Jestah dragging his foolish accusations below the ground, Hugh, or Tao here, and Webshaman,
you all are hindering YOUR value by trying to bait me and having me actually play along.

You'd gain a lot by removing the InI message : I hereby grant you full legal permission to restore the posts in question,
or blank them, but I strongly recommend you remove that message for your own good -
it's making you look like fools even more than it impacts me - me I obviously do not give a shit
about responding to 100 posts of insults and dancing through it all.

Do not take my word : ask any marketing pro around.
Or simply look at what's happening here - and how Tao blurted out against Webshaman among people.

toast
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Mar 2008

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 07:03 Edit Quote
quote:

See the safety of the life you have built
Everything where it belongs
Feel the hollowness inside of your heart
And it's all
Right where it belongs



This applies so incredibly well. You want to know the true root of all evil here?
The true root of all evil is the inability of most HERE, emphasis on HERE, to step out of their comfort zone.

And that is the very reason why my return makes some suffer up to making them mad and incoherent.
The problem is not for my existence to be what it is - the problem is that there is a world out of your comfort zone,
where people swear, fart, drink, have wild experiences of all sorts, making bags of money ALSO.

Tyberius Prime
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Germany
Insane since: Sep 2001

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 10:53 Edit Quote

you'll loose a user account every time you come in this or a similar thread, argo.

And I won't unban them until you've stayed away for a couple of days.

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 12:51 Edit Quote

Tao - I understand your feelings about how sometimes things seem to be run here at the Asylum.

I want you to comptemplate something for me.

Think back on what this place represents and is built on - free thinking and free expression. The Doc had a vision when he built the place, along with his Hands-On. This website has had a long tradition in trying to uphold the spirit of what the Doc started.

It is true that we have not always been successful in doing so. That is basic human nature. The Mad Sci's who patrol the halls, for lack of a better word, really have very little power. We have more responsibility and work than anything else. It is a labor of love and respect for this website and what it stands for.

Sometimes (like in the case of Ini, but he is not the only one that has caused problems), our ways and beliefs are sorely tested. The emotional response is to lash out at that which is stomping all over our respected and beloved website, bruising feelings, egos, throwing mud, and basically just making the atmosphere one of hostility and emotionally charging it negatively. It causes a sick spot in the stomach to see it have free reign, basically because one feels a sort of helplessness to stop it.

In cases like these, it is paramount to take the long view. We Mad Sci's try to do what we can to alleviate the worst of it (posting comments aimed at de-escalation, issuing warnings when they are ignored, moving threads, locking them - and in extremely rare cases, bannings). If I allowed my emotions to control my actions, then I would make a very poor Mad Sci, indeed. I try as I can to reign them in, because I know that these things will calm down, eventually.

I know that sometimes these types of explanations are poor comfort. None-the-less, one needs to realize that the members of the Asylum are not stupid, nor are they easily bamboozled . Most do not post in threads like these, and when they do, it is a short comment if that.

Keep in mind that individuals like Ini that have burned all their bridges, and have only ashes left over, are really shunned members. They post, sure. Sometimes an identity gets banned due to the way that those posts were done, or due to the actions done under that persona (as is the case with Ini).

Note that I do not have the ability to ban, and that I do not generally support banning as a technique. I also am not a proponent of deleting posts, either. I intensely dislike locking threads, and I try to avoid it.

Ini has proven, time and again, that he is not interested in reconciliation or making true amends. He apologies when he feels it may help his position, or in order to influence some who were not around when he had some of his episodes of lashing out (or seem sympathetic to his position, in his eyes). In time, most of those that try to give Ini another chance will see the pattern that everyone else is aware of, and they will turn their back on him. It is true that he does seem to be able to find victims for his abuse, but that is the nature of the abuser/victim relationship.

He is an expert at burning his bridges. He likes to vent, and likes to try to hurt those that he can. He is intelligent and is very aware of what he is doing. He understands intrinsically what he is doing, what he posts, and knows what cause and effect is. None of his "apparent" misunderstandings are that - he is calculated and will go to any length to attempt to get his side of things through. Nothing is below him to use to get his way or side of things through. He never fails to amaze me at the depths that he will plunge to do so.

The history of Ini proves all of this without a shadow of a doubt. Recent actions and posts by him (which are exactly the same as those from before) are just more testament to this.

I don't know why Ini feels that this website is so important, that he has to continually assault it with his presence. He seems to think that his input (and I will be the first to say that he does have some knowledge that is useful, but to be blunt, it is not unique and there are others who can supply pretty much the same, without the baggage) is somehow so important, that this website desperately needs it and him. I could go into a number of reasons, yadda yadda yadda of why I think he does what he does, but to be honest, I am not his Therapist, and I am not really interested in being it, either.

That he needs professional help is obvious. That he is abusive, is also obvious. That he is incapable of identifying that he is the sole reason for the adversity in his life and to actually do something within about it, is also a lack that he has. A professional Therapist/Psychologist would probably be able to help him with whatever deep-seated problems that he has. Or not, as the case may be.

But that is beyond the scope of what we do here, on this website.

In short, I would recommend simple patience and just ignore him. I know sometimes it can be tough - but let us Mad Sci's deal with it. If you wish, you can contact me when you spot something amiss, or need to talk. My ears are normally open.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 15:03 Edit Quote

Read and understood WebShaman, thanks for taking the time.

One more lesson learned:
I often seem to make the mistake that other inmates here have the same affection for the Asylum as I do. Over the past week I have learned by IM, email, and postings that they certainly do not. It is unreasonable of me to expect that they should, I realise that now and I should have done earlier. I don't mean you WS, just some other people I have contacted.
I realise now also, what I remember Emps saying a while back is also true for me. One of the faults I have here is that I like the Asylum too much and I'm am perhaps over protective when I believe it, or an Asylumite is being wronged in some way.
I think I may follow his "Emporial" ways and have a little break.
It looks like I may have some work down in Bournemouth for a few weeks so if I do I probably wont have any internet access so I wont be posting here for the duration.
See you on the bright side.

Jestah
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Long Island, NY
Insane since: Jun 2000

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 19:02 Edit Quote
quote:

toast said:

This is a brilliant way to walk in the footsteps of Jestah on this one, or Hugh :



Good grief, what is your fascination with me?

I'm not involved in your conversation with Tao and the only reason I had any dealings with you in the first place is because you logged on and began attacking me out of no where. For once in your life try to own up to your own actions.

(Edited by Jestah on 03-14-2008 19:06)

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 03-14-2008 22:44 Edit Quote

I would hope, Tao, that you instead decide to stay and keep enriching the halls of the Asylum as you normally do.

As Ini has left, you can see that although we here at the Asylum have a different way of dealing with problems, it is effective (even if it often takes longer and is more disruptive than some other solutions). Sometimes, one has to bear the strain to uphold ideals and beliefs. I think that it is worth it, to uphold that which the Asylum stands for.

I hope that you will see this as well and stay.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

White Hawk
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: zero divided.
Insane since: May 2004

IP logged posted posted 03-15-2008 01:15 Edit Quote

No no, Tao, don't go! There is at least one member of this forum who loves this place, learns every day from the wisdom of the other members, and really doesn't want you to go abandoning it...

...and of course, is in the middle of his first ever Pong game with you!

Hang about, mate.

Skaarjj
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: :morF
Insane since: May 2000

IP logged posted posted 03-15-2008 15:31 Edit Quote

It would be a sad thing indeed to see you leave this place forever, Tao, but if you feel you need to take time, by all means take it. You will be missed, and I, for one, will be happy to see the day of your return.


Justice 4 Pat Richard

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 03-17-2008 04:15 Edit Quote

I must say that this thread makes me incredibly sad.

...and I guess that's all I can muster at the moment.


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

synax
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Cell 666
Insane since: Mar 2002

IP logged posted posted 03-31-2008 02:55 Edit Quote

It's funny to see how some things never change...and of course, by "funny" I mean "pathetic".

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