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WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 17:01 Edit Quote

I am posting this to get a consensus about how the Asylum views this member.

As of late, the member Argo Navis has become very bellicose and has been involved in a number of threads that broke down into flames.

I have moved some of the worse ones down here, to avoid having posts of flames amid the otherwise useful information and threads located in those respective forums.

I think the "three strikes and you are out" rule is a good one, one that I hold to be relatively fair. Ini, Mauro_, Argo Navis - three strikes.

In my book, he is out.

However, I do not decide policy here at the Asylum. So, I have started this thread to get a consensus.

As I expect him to come into this thread and spout flames, I have posted it down here for exactly that reason.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

Arthurio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cell 3736
Insane since: Jul 2003

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 17:17 Edit Quote

People need to calm down and chill out. I won't choose a 'side' here. Hope you forgive me.

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 17:28 Edit Quote

Actually, I will take Webshaman's side on this one.

It's absolutely inacceptable for anyone here to get angry, anytime.
Absolutely inacceptable for anyone to ask questions that are not valid by the jurisdiction of
Webshaman or any other mod. And apologies where they are due and only there
are NO reason to genuinely calm down about the issue as a whole.

Furthermore, shutting him down can only enhance the quality of the place's discussions
AND this MUST happen in the name of free expression.


So, how do we go about it?
1) We block his username. But he can login with another username.
2) We block his ip. But he can disguise it at will.
3) We block his original domain. But he can disguise it at will.
4) We hire someone to physically kill him.

...

Option 5, though, may work : everybody takes responsibility for their faults,
and as Arthurio pointed out, calms down.

But that one is not appropriate : I mean, after all, the guy spoke his mind. I'd opt for 4)

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 18:48 Edit Quote

I guess this marks the end of a much needed reality check for all : back to talking like I didn't know I am in the Matrixx.

I take the opportunity to answer Tao's question about low self esteem : it's unfortunately blatant - and contagious
from the consistent ways many people fail to acknowledge, or say the truth - and instead resort to denial, dellusion, and other
practices for "pushing" a point of view. Which happens in all communications, only way too frequently right here.

It's also blatant from the way people like WebShaman consider an apology as a sign of weakness,
and bullying covertly as a sign of strength : thank you for returning to me the energy you were stealing from me
with the coercion attempt - I may have ended up thinking you had a non-personal point.

I DO apologize where I find I have a true fault, all it takes is pointing the mentionned faults to me in a sensible OR honest way -
ideally both.

Cheers,
Argo

White Hawk
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: zero divided.
Insane since: May 2004

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 19:17 Edit Quote

It's strangely compelling to see the gradual decay of an inmate's mind, to watch as a personality expressed only in the glowing orange words of the Asylum slowly suffers a break-down.

It's unfortunate that he can't just go quietly crazy - he has to make so much bloody noise about it!

I'm torn between pity and amusement... um... no, I can't make a decision. While it is blatantly beyond question that he needs help, I don't think that further exclusion and rejection counts as such.

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 19:29 Edit Quote
quote:

I don't think that further exclusion and rejection counts as such.



Says the guy who threatened me to beat me to the ground, called my moms as an argument,
and recently, introduced my girlfriend in to play, and NOW is diagnosing from within his straightjacket.

quote:

pointing the mentionned faults to me in a sensible OR honest way -
ideally both.

Option 5, though, may work : everybody takes responsibility for their faults,
and as Arthurio pointed out, calms down.



Got more fuel for my fire? More ways to prove what I say? Enjoy yourself.
But as Arthurio and I said above, it may be an opportunity for everybody involved to grow up.

(Edited by argo navis on 03-11-2008 19:31)


Final edit for today :

quote:

I take the opportunity to answer Tao's question about low self esteem : it's unfortunately blatant - and contagious
from the consistent ways many people fail to acknowledge, or say the truth - and instead resort to denial, dellusion, and other
practices for "pushing" a point of view. Which happens in all communications, only way too frequently right here.



I think I will make that a sig.

(Edited by argo navis on 03-11-2008 20:01)

Blaise
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: London
Insane since: Jun 2003

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 20:00 Edit Quote

Argo, if I were you I just wouldn't bother biting the bate that's been set here, nothing will come of it apart from WH's amusement and perhaps a few others.

It's another typical example of the trite bullying usually found in the Philosophy and Other Silliness threads centred around Gideon and Jade.

Just ignore this thread, ignore any other threads that involves similar bating, and simply just don't bother wasting your own energy thinking about what has been said in those wasteful arguments before. Just focus on your positive posts.

You don't need to sink to anyone else's level.

mas
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: the space between us
Insane since: Sep 2002

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 20:52 Edit Quote

i think i'm on Webshamans side here...

quote:

Arthurio said:

People need to calm down and chill out.


i my point of view, everyone is down and chilled until Argo Navis joins the discussion. Nearly all threads seem to get off the track when he starts talking. this can easily be observed and is not an exaggeration.

So, how do we go about it?
1) We block his username. But he can login with another username.
2) We block his ip. But he can disguise it at will.
3) We block his original domain. But he can disguise it at will.
4) We hire someone to physically kill him.
5) everybody takes responsibility for their faults, and as Arthurio pointed out, calms down.

i would like to add another option:
6) just ignore Argo Navis. if you dont want to ignore ALL of his posts (which would probably the best idea, but is only useful if everyone does so), then just start ignoring his offences and replies that cause all these fights. just as

quote:

Blaise said:

You don't need to sink to anyone else's level.


that says it all. stop sinking to his level, dont feed the flame.

my 2 cents

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 21:08 Edit Quote

Strangely enough, mas, we'd agree on all but two points :

quote:

(which would probably the best idea, but is only useful if everyone does so),



Problem is : when I am answering complicated Ubuntu problems, suggesting excellent views about developping Arthurio's web ideas as today,
or adressing a problem kimson had with Flash/PNG, it takes a moron not to answer and discuss naturally. You can't force the flow of communication
one way or another - it's as moot as points 1, 2, and 3.

I am NOT seeking for the attention here. I am outraged and disappointed at idiocies professed by some to the point
of giving up on any form of diplomacy. Kindly note I asked Webshaman to avoid the coercion and avoid me a while ago,
same goes for poi, same goes for you.


In the end, the truely viable and only mature take is option 5 : you think you're perfect? Get over it.
The rules for communicating properly with me are established in "Witch Hunt is on" : just don't demonstrate,
blatantly, or not, you are a douche, it should be enough for me to answer politely.

Because the problem doesn't take roots in my answers - it takes root in attitudes, fears, expectations,
inability of many minds to step out of their comfort zone without becoming provocative, insulting, etc.

Or trying to come up with, what you just pointed out : useless avoidance rather than a genuine attempt at resolution.
Avoiding me won't prevent me from helping anyone, talking with anyone, and generally speaking my mind as I please.

Btw, you're naturally buying into a "debasement" approach here.
The link to what it means is in the next thread, you know, "manipulation...". Everybody has such techniques, some make them blatant.

DL-44
Lunatic (VI) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 21:14 Edit Quote
quote:

Blaise said:

Just ignore this thread, ignore any other threads that involves similar bating, and simply just don't bother wasting your own energy thinking about what has been said in those wasteful arguments before. Just focus on your positive posts.

You don't need to sink to anyone else's leve



Just thought I'd point out, for the record, that you've got things just a little backward there Blaise
This thread is very obviously in response to a great deal of theatrics by argo...not the other way around.

FWIW

Argo - I've said everything I can say to you.
~shrug~

Do with it what you will...

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 21:38 Edit Quote

What I'll mostly do is follow Blaise's advice : sadly enough, he got it perfectly right me thinks, some people here
are hindering the quality of the board as a whole, and I am simply unable to do that alone.

A big. A truely BIG person - and I wish you wouldn't disappoint me in that regard - would not point fingers outwards,
but would acknowledge their share of anything that helped a conflict occur : in any conflict there are at least 2 involved,
and more often than not, a 50%/50% share of faults.

For the record : mas is one of the first persons to spontaneously have lashed out at me since my return,
resorting to calling me names immediately, since post 1.

What I predicted from WS attiude, for I have observed it so many times, and so did Blaise, has occured exactly as I predicted it.

The weaknesses of Jestah? They're there to see, as he is again on a "you're full of shit and I know but I never actually cared to check"
kind of rampage.

From the guy who said "apple is shit" to later say "hey look, they got me a new mac". The guy who criticizes pre-emptively and without a clue.
Does it with apple, does it with me, does it with his dog for certain.

One of the strengths of the Doc was tolerance, true open mindedness, etc. How much of a tribute do you feel anyone of you,
hell, anyone of us is currently paying to that state of mind?

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 21:53 Edit Quote

About mas point #6 : On another website I go to, pouet.net, there is/was a lot of trolls hurting everybody. The site admins agreed to put an attribute with the userId of people's post/threads/... this way people were able to use their browser's user stylesheet capability to filter out things comming from the of userIds they wanted to ignore, for real. I wrote a userScript to have a GUI to shun on/off users. Integrating that script/GUI it into the site itself takes seconds. The admins hoped for the best and did not take this extra step.

It is sad we had to do that, but it worked pretty well.

In the case of the Asylum, it can be as simple as changing :

code:
<div class="post clear" id="post_1">

into

code:
<div class="post clear user31415" id="post_1">

Then the CSS to filter out a user's post work in all major browsers.


argo navis:

quote:
But as Arthurio and I said above, it may be an opportunity for everybody involved to grow up.

Would be nice if as a grown up you showed us the lead.



(Edited by poi on 03-11-2008 22:00)

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 22:12 Edit Quote

As an excercise, Ini/Mauro_/Argo Navis, I want you to keep track of who says what in this thread.

It is the sole reason why I posted it.

Consider it a mirror to bounce back to you what others are seeing.

It is about recognition.

Then when you have done that, reflect upon the words in my sig. They were conceived by a fairly wise individual.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

mas
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: the space between us
Insane since: Sep 2002

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 22:18 Edit Quote
quote:
For the record : mas is one of the first persons to spontaneously have lashed out at me since my return,
resorting to calling me names immediately, since post 1.


for the record: it was not since post 1, it was since post ~650. (your postcount now is 862, the discussion you are reffering to is about a month old...go figure)
true. i felt offended by you. but unlike you, i've learned from this mistake and am now ignoring such posts.

Jestah
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Long Island, NY
Insane since: Jun 2000

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 22:24 Edit Quote
quote:

argo navis said:

The weaknesses of Jestah? They're there to see, as he is again on a "you're full of shit and I know but I never actually cared to check"
kind of rampage.

From the guy who said "apple is shit" to later say "hey look, they got me a new mac". The guy who criticizes pre-emptively and without a clue.
Does it with apple, does it with me, does it with his dog for certain.




Most of your posts are nonsensical but I just don't understand this Apple thing. Even if I said "apple is shit", which I didn't, what does it even have to do with anything? Lets say for argument sake that I do hate Apple - never mind the multiple computers that I've purchased from them - why do you care? And more importantly, why do you keep bringing it up?

This is now the third or forth thread in the past week or so that you brought me into that I wasn't a part of. How can you possibly keep crying that everyone is attacking you?

reisio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Florida
Insane since: Mar 2005

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 22:40 Edit Quote

I hadn't really noticed bellicose... maybe annoyingly postastic... but I tend to not read really long threads that don't especially interest me, so maybe I missed it.

Jestah
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Long Island, NY
Insane since: Jun 2000

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 22:43 Edit Quote

poi, what's involved in what you have posted above?

What I mean is, is this something you can do or does it have to be done by TP? Many message boards have features to ignore certain users. In the case of Ini and whatever other new names he creates, I think it will be invaluable.

Blaise
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: London
Insane since: Jun 2003

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 22:49 Edit Quote

DL I didn't get anything mixed up, the fact is what I said in the end swings both ways, as mas emphasized.

The good people here are in part responsible for 'the beast' they created, it takes much less energy to just ignore and forget about useless posts in a simple forum, so let's all just move along.

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 23:38 Edit Quote

Blaise I respect your POV but... no-one here created a beast.
Ignoring bad behaviour does not make it go away and I do say that AG's behaviour is at times insulting, and he shows no sign of changing, and he has been given chanced time and time again.

I know this is in the past but it should not be overlooked that this person actively threatened to take the Doc and the Asylum to court if ALL of his posts were not removed. That is not the behaviour of a reasonable person.
OK that was then and this is now he came back under a great pretence and although he did publicly apologise, he apologised for hiding his true identity. NOT for all the mess he created in one of his other identities.

I want to look at the most recent thing that happened today because we can go on for ages with all the arguments that have happened.

AG says

quote:
Watch out for being perceived as me or an attention whore (this thread may come across as that, I see a fun exercise about self image) :
it's easy to trigger this feeling here because many people around have a low self esteem and are prone to perceiving agression
where there is none.



My answer

quote:
Totally unnecessary. How would you know "many people round have a low self esteem"?



AG's response

quote:

argo navis said:

it's unfortunately blatant - and contagious
from the consistent ways many people fail to acknowledge, or say the truth - and instead resort to denial, dellusion, and other
practices for "pushing" a point of view. Which happens in all communications, only way too frequently right here.



This is ranting and wrong and does not really make sense.
I have visited many many forums and been a member of quite a few of them. Without a shadow of a doubt this is the most balanced, intelligent, honest, truthful and helpful forum I have known

quote:

argo navis said:
It's also blatant from the way people like WebShaman consider an apology as a sign of weakness,
and bullying covertly as a sign of strength



This not only is completely untrue. It is a blatant attempt at baiting WS and others into an argument. It is not a piece of considered judgement.

I do not know what your opinion of me is Blaise but I have no ulterior motives, I am not a bully I do not belong to a "let's all hate AG" club. The reason I stop and pick up on some of AG's behaviour is that I believe he is a self centred selfish arrogant bully at times and loves to be the centre of attention, and it seems any attention will do.

It was a very cunning move getting all his previous posts removed I think because now there is no point of reference to the previous deplorable behaviour.
Do you or anyone else think that I enjoy all this negativity. Is it just a coincidence that AG is at the centre of so much arguing, so much petty name calling. I think not

I am sick of the whole argue navis episode. I suspect he thrives on this disruption and is enjoying every minute.

Tell me someone please, as AG seems to be revelling in the thought that the Asylum is unable to do anything to stop him (or anyone else) from continually behaving badly and not getting banned as per his first post. it's like saying I can do anything I want and none of you can do anything to stop me.
If this is true then I can see my time in any forum that is infected with a character who seems to revel in disruption, as very limited if not at an end.

I have better things to do with my time than put up with idiots like that.


Those who look for monsters should look to it that
they do not become monsters. For when you gaze
long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 03-11-2008 23:42 Edit Quote

Jestah: Some one with FTP access to the Asylum have to add something like " user_$userId" in the CLASS attribute of the TR containing people's posts/threads. Ideally this should be only 2 places in the code. Then adding the GUI is a matter of adding script tag in the header or footer includes of the Asylum.

Jestah
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Long Island, NY
Insane since: Jun 2000

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 00:42 Edit Quote

Do you have FTP access or is it the Doc and TP alone?

kuckus
Paranoid (IV) Mad Librarian

From: ber/ger
Insane since: Dec 2001

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 00:47 Edit Quote

Hey again...

What does everyone think of poi's suggestion? If we can agree on having it, I think I'd be all for it.


The technicalities we surely could take care of...

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 00:54 Edit Quote

Tao - generally, the Asylum has stood as a bastion against banning (and although not a rule set in stone, against deleting posts and threads). Even locking a thread is something normally done only after serious thought has been given to doing so.

In the entire history of the Asylum, I think there has only been a handful of banning Asylum members (one of which was Ini).

Of course, he came back under the avatar of Mauro_ - and now Argo Navis.

For the record, I am against permanent bans.

I support temporary revoking posting privileges, based on the severity of the transgression. I also think that Poi's idea is pretty interesting and certainly worth persuing further.

Note that I do not decide Asylum policy, I merely am a member and attempt to do my best to carry out my Moderator duties.

As for Ini/Mauro_/Argo Navis, I still hope that he will eventually realize that he is the sole cause of his adversities, anyone with even half the intelligence and self-awareness that he says he possesses would be able to discern that from the many, many examples in the threads he has been involved in.

Obviously other members of the Asylum post here, and do not continually draw flames upon themselves (even Jade does not have the dispensity to draw flames upon herself as Ini/Mauro_/Argo Novis does). It is even true to say that the overwhelming majority of Asylum members can and do regularly post and communicate with one another in various threads without resorting to negative comments, personal remarks, or flaming one another, even when in disagreement.

Ini/Mauro_/Argo Novis is very well aware that he has problems - it has been pointed out to him time and time again. He came back as Mauro_ and asked for forgiveness for his actions and transgressions as Ini, and admitted to being the cause of his own adversities. Of course, the change he said that he had undergone was only skin deep, as time showed.

Again, Ini/Mauro_/Argo Navis returned, this time with an identity that he did not immediately associate with past ones. While it is true that some members of the Asylum knew this in advance, none of those who knew went about flaming or baiting Argo Navis in attempts to somehow "trip him up" or "hunt him down". They also did not go around revealing who Argo Navis was, either.

In end effect, there was no witch hunt at all. On the contrary, there was the opposite - he was given more than a fair chance to prove that he had indeed changed and was willing to become a peaceful and productive member of the forum.

Again, the change was only cosmetic, as recent events have proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Thus, it is to conclude that the only change that Ini/Mauro_/Argo Navis is interested in is not self-change, but a change in how the Asylum members perceive him. Unfortunately, he still does not seem to realize, despite the many years gone by now, that the adversities that he faces are caused solely by his own actions. That the Asylum perceives him as he truly is, how he presents himself.

As many other esteemed members of this forum have pointed out in the past, Ini/Mauro_/Argo navis has deep seated issues, real ones, and he really needs to seek out professional counseling.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 01:05 Edit Quote

Jestah et al: I don't have FTP access. AFAIK only TP and the Doc do, but that shouldn't be a problem if the Mad Scis decide to implement this user shunning capability.

Also, FYI the IDs of the users one decide to shun are stored in a cookie. Therefore it's up the end user to decide who they want to shun. But of course the web site can wipe the cookie to give shunned users a chance, or add a value in the cookie if the vox populi expressed strong opinion to shun a user ... which changes can easily be ruled out by the end users.



(Edited by poi on 03-12-2008 01:22)

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 01:29 Edit Quote

Thanks for taking the time to explain that WebShaman, it really is appreciated. Even though I have been here for what ~runs off to check~ crikey five years! I have also spent large portions of that disconnected from the net. I missed some parts of the sad history you have outlined above.

I can't help but feel desperately sorry for argue navis (sorry I can't help but try to inject a little levity into the very sad proceedings) I mean argo navis. I just do not understand where he gets all his anger from, but I suppose that is part of the dilemma.

This story comes to mind at times like this. I'm not too sure of the provenance but that does not detract from the truth it hold for all of us.

quote:

Cherokee Story: Two Wolves

A Cherokee Elder was teaching his grandchildren about life. He said to them, "A fight is going on inside me... it is a terrible fight between two wolves.

One wolf represents fear, anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride and superiority.

The other stands for joy, peace, love, hope, sharing, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, friendship, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.

This same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other person, too."

They thought about it for a minute and then one child asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old man simply replied, "The one you feed."



(Edited by Tao on 03-12-2008 01:33)

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 01:36 Edit Quote

/me howls for Tao and the greater good of this orange place.

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 01:40 Edit Quote

Nice story - some real nuggets of wisdom in there.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

DL-44
Lunatic (VI) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 02:22 Edit Quote
quote:

Blaise said:

it takes much less energy to just ignore and forget about useless posts in a simple forum, so let's all just move along.



Well that much I certainly agree with!

=)

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 03:14 Edit Quote

In the grand sequence of events : it is the first thing I asked - beng ignored.
By poi. Specifically.

I consider the solution not only fair : I consider it positive (and extending it to all users - an ignore button, makes for flame control).

quote:

Ignoring bad behaviour does not make it go away



Replicating it makes for escalation, the rest of what Blaise said applies as well.
I even appreciate the term "beast" used by Blaise, because it's very tongue-in-cheek : there is no fight inside of me.

I have the creeps at seeing what is occuring - the creeps of a lifetime : all the facts I mentionned about my life
are real, and easy to prove - a fortune is ahead of me with little effort, which would make sense to anyone with a cultural background
about Switzerland : it's a country full of money, technology, and in general, extremely high quality services, including school and studies.

Nestle and PM happen to have their HQ... oddly enough? In Lausanne.
WORLD HQ.

Yes I have the anxiety which accompanies the possibilities offered to me. I am proud of myself : completely.

I still do not see the same issues you do - I have seriously plaid the devil's advocate by taking WS's take as if it was anything but absurd,
and this is simple humor. While poi's boasted pride, I see only as an obstacle, for example.

In my book, it gets an - incompatibility, ignore feature is much welcome.
Especially since - if I wanted to bypass it, I'd just have to sign under a new name.

If I really INTENDED to disrupt something I do not vibe with and do not want to vibe with : something that screams
"weak and flawed, with incredible possibilities" to me.

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 03:25 Edit Quote
quote:
Especially since - if I wanted to bypass it, I'd just have to sign under a new name.

Which people would shun as soon as your old ways kick in under that nth name.

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 03:28 Edit Quote

@Tao, a last one :

quote:

While it is true that some members of the Asylum knew this in advance, none of those who knew went about flaming or baiting Argo Navis in attempts to somehow "trip him up" or "hunt him down". They also did not go around revealing who Argo Navis was, either.



This is a lie. What happened is exactly is that on chat, I set my name to Argo Navis.
As a result, Webshaman, without notifying me, informed DL-44, and some other people pre-emptively
in an attempt to "fullfill his mod duties".

Never was I pressed to reveal my identity : I decided to reveal it in the midst of apologies. Spontaneously.
Etc, etc. WebShaman does have HIS truth.

As anyone else : it's called perception, but it's vastly biased compared to the real chain of facts.
Likewise, many of his statements of facts here are completely influenced, and biased, compared to that same, simple, causality chain : there is a romance/poetry
factor to his tale. I do not think he believes what he says : to me, he lacks the ability to escape his default mental comfort zone and
show real empathy towards me or ANYONE who digresses from his views, so he resorts to some tactic/pattern.

Just like Jestah. A sort of simple default mode of thinking.

A mode of thinking affected by the mileage, going down the drain, and just as useless to my interests as it gets.
And as a "beast" and thus a predator : yes, I do care about my interests - so does everyone else.

...

Looking forward to an ignore feature.

---------------------------------

Poi : that was not a threat on my side - noticing I am happy to not interact with you MAY
hint at the fact I absolutely am the most sincere person.

(Edited by argo navis on 03-12-2008 03:29)

----------------------------------

quote:

Even though I have been here for what ~runs off to check~ crikey five years! I have also spent large portions of that disconnected from the net. I missed some parts of the sad history you have outlined above.



Brilliant proof of concept. You did not see it, just as reisio, because it wasn't there to see. A fairytale.

(Edited by argo navis on 03-12-2008 03:35)

Jestah
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Long Island, NY
Insane since: Jun 2000

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 03:31 Edit Quote

Why do you keep bringing my name into these things?

You're the one who resorts to lying or stretching the truth so people will feel pity for you. You're just pathetic.

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 03:38 Edit Quote

It is my answer to your Apple question : it is said, and proved, that the way a potential human mate
will treat service personel is the way they treat their partner when comfortable in an interpersonal relationship.

If you consider such a joke ethically correct (the one about Apple), you consider support personnel's effort
as least than the best pre-emptively - in other words, you start your line of thinking by considering them like shit.
While the guys are paid to spend their nerves on answering insulting to angry to rarely polite customers ALL the time -
and deserve praises for the true sense of sacrifice involved.

Through several years of support, we would learn to flair customers like you from a mile away : so pompous
we would offer them the best of the best service for this very reason.

To let them know what class is about.

(Edited by argo navis on 03-12-2008 03:39)

(Edited by argo navis on 03-12-2008 03:40)

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 03:41 Edit Quote

argo navis:

quote:
Poi : that was not a threat on my side - noticing I am happy to not interact with you MAY
hint at the fact I absolutely am the most sincere person.

And the asshole of Opera PR robot boasted of pride that I am would like to take this oportunity to thank the most sincere person for not interacting with him.



(Edited by poi on 03-12-2008 03:42)

Jestah
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Long Island, NY
Insane since: Jun 2000

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 03:47 Edit Quote

Ini, you're just a lying sack of a shit. Stop it already.

For those who are shaking their heads in confusion, Ini is simply making stuff up. He knows absolutely nothing of my dealings with Apple outside of the brief post that I made about a month and a half ago. This talk of me abusing sales people and making jokes at their expense is just lies.

Hey! Maybe I should start a new thread on people using manipulation tactics in debate!

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 03:49 Edit Quote

Asshole, I don't remember using. I'd like to know if I did though.

But the rest : you sure can't blame me for not sincerely expressing my feelings.
Yes, I could have lived without the conflict. And I can live with it.

I could also have lived without the 1st post of mas towards me being full of free insults,
and all the rest of the bullshit. Which you could have too. But we chose not to.

And we could discuss that for hours.

...hurry on the feature.

quote:

Hey! Maybe I should start a new thread on people using manipulation tactics in debate!



You'd have an edge. Especially since you want to state what you know about my life, and tell me that I don't know about yours?
I've been around for the very same years too, minus two. No I am not making anything up : there are joke sites
about moronic and impolite customers, it's easy as hit google, you'll see you're the center of their fun stories.

You do not make me laugh though. The rest can be googled, and matched, by anyone who knows how to google :
my past belonging to b-i, their working with Philip Morris HQ, my living in the same town, etc.. easy as maps even. Clickit.

I am not making up a line of a single thing I say. So carry on, teach me more about being fake...

(Edited by argo navis on 03-12-2008 03:54)

Jestah
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Long Island, NY
Insane since: Jun 2000

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 03:58 Edit Quote

You're just full of shit Ini. Prove me wrong, lets see these sites that talk about how I specifically abused Apple employees.

Edit:

To be honest, I don't know which I'd prefer: watching Ini come up with a lame excuse on why he won't post his source or filing a law suit against Apple.

(Edited by Jestah on 03-12-2008 04:01)

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 03:58 Edit Quote

Sorry, I guess I just proved you right : I am a lying total asshole.

quote:
This is not about the community : I now have something personal against poi, I tried to defuse it a few times by asking him to give me a break, he is ignoring this and being a total asshole to me - directly. I could ignore him, but the lying bit of it is so ugly.

source

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 04:17 Edit Quote

Jestah : you'd prefer getting the approval of your friends to validate your lack of personality and bring you back into comfort.
Where I am comfortable treating you as a chump without anyone else's approval.

Enjoy your new laptop btw. And the discount.
I told you you can google them easilly : http://www.clientsalacon.com is a french one, brilliant. You're there,
somewhere, the angry customer who comes questioning the reseller's competency about something so obviously wrong it hurts to smile to you.
But the guy will smile to you and will give you your discount.

Find one in english. "clients a la con" means "f* dumb customers" by the way.

Poi : okay. Not much to say - how many times did you ignore my requests for me to resort to the word and how many people came into play?
Still, I don't like the form I used, no, I am not proud of it. But it takes ten persons lining up provocative bullshit for days to get this result by me.

Fair enough, but you won't get my apologies - why would you need it anyway with the ignore feature? See my point here?
You can give lessons by examplifying, - which I should do too.

But as I said the way out is through - as long as questions flow and Jestaz are dancing, I have no qualms about answering.

(Edited by argo navis on 03-12-2008 04:19)

Jestah
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Long Island, NY
Insane since: Jun 2000

IP logged posted posted 03-12-2008 04:27 Edit Quote

Ah, so the U.S. Mac Genius posted about me on a French site?

Wouldn't it have been less embarrassing to admit you're a lying sack of shit? At least then you could feel good in knowing that you told the truth for the first time since joining the Asylum.

(Edited by Jestah on 03-12-2008 04:40)

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