Preserved Topic: The Matrix Revolutions with spoilers and rant (Page 1 of 3)

Well I just got back from the simultaneous woldwide showing of revolutions and in retrospect I wish I had brought tic-tac's. Picture nearly the same crowd you would get at a midnight movie but sober and partially awake. I was particularly fond of all the skinny little 'neo' knockoffs running around in trenchcoats, I heard one of them bragging loudly about how he had his trenchcoat professionally tailored so that nobody else would have one just like his, what a way to stake out your individuality. I am proud to say I successfully resisted my urge to kick him.

I got a good seat right in the middle and with my triple expresso in hand, cell phone off, nicorette gum in mouth, ahhhh... The movie starts, cheering, applause...did I mention that it was at 7am? During this cheering I discovered that several individuals behind me had failed to brush their teeth as toxic waves of halitosis washed over me. Not the most plesant start to a movie. In retrospect it was clearly an omen.

Ok the movie, I was one of the many who was not amused by the last movie and now that I have seen the third I know why, 2 and 3 should have been one movie. 2 introduced way too many new characters and concepts to ever even attempt to explain itself, and it never really did. The two together make a slightly more coherent movie, just slightly.

III, 3, three, threeeeeeee, again and again the trininty concept is introduced with all the subtlety of a boot to the face, the overuse of religious/freudian symbolism gets tired... "....Follow those three pipes"
Neo - superego, Machine - ego, Agent Smith - Id
Trinity,(implied in the name of course) neo, morpheus...one could write a dissertation on this collective tripe.

Was that my imagination or was them getting out of the rain and fighting inside almost exactly the same as the dojo scene with morpheus in 1?

Was the pillar scene in the club way too similar to the lobby scene in 1?

Another club, freaks in latex instead of freaks in leather...ok yet another knockoff.

The train station could have been much more interesting. Was the trainmaster the same guy from The Road Warrior who had the helicopter?

Can everyone point guns at everyone else while they deliver their lines please? I love John Woo and I am glad to see I am not the only one.

Flying and fabric fx...smith and neo flying, I cant say the CG crew gets a pat on the back for this one, both the smith and neo models have a lot of issues with fluidity and motion. Watch neo's jacket during the flight/fight scenes, clearly CG gone bad. The mechanicals looked good for the battles and the flow and physics of the sentinels was great. It was almost like it was two seperate CG stuidos handling the movie.

Rain, glass, sparks, bullets, shell casings, concussion waves....someone, somewhere has a serious fetish for particle FX.

The score, I loved the score for 1, was unimpressed with the score for 2 but this score. Score should be subtle, it should add atmosphere, it should be background, it should not make you cringe as the vocals sweep up. How many times can O'Fortuna be ripped and integrated into the soundtrack of yet another movie?

Ok so the end happens, (really, I beleive that is the most appropriate word) and from my position I saw about 30% of my fellow geeks packed into the theater flip their hands up and shrug as we collectively gave the universal sign for WTF. As the house lights came up I could almost see all the little neo-phytes struggling to justify the movie to themselves as they shuffled off to the door. The sense of disappointment in the air seemed to be quite palatable as we moved down the hall of people anxiously lined up for the next showing.

The question again, What is the matrix now? Is it just a place for those who choose to stay in that reality and programs that have no purpose? I waited three movies and several years to have it end like that? Did they spend two movies bludgeoning you with all this symbolism to short sheet you at the end? I dont mind walking away with a few questions but that was extremely unsatisfying.

One delightful highpoint is that they did manage to work in Persephone (actress, Monica Bellucci) wife of The Merovingian, yummy. If I had known the rest of the movie would turn out the way it did I would have walked after the last scene she was in.

AOL Time Warner, acting through Warner Brothers saw The Matrix as the cash cow it is and poured money into the idea and twisted it beyond all recognition. The first movie was completed prior to the AOL/TWX merger and I think that the money and attention focused on the last two post-merger movies had to have some impact on the creative elements of the final product. At least I tell myself that so I dont skip the next project the brothers put out because of the bad taste this one left.

They should have stopped at The Matrix, (maybe the animatrix, some of it was enjoyable and the online comics were great). I loved the mythos that was created by the first one and conceptually I love the idea of The Matrix but I walked out of the theater with a sick sensation as one word rattled around in my head....Say it with me...Sequel, sadly something similar will certainly follow in The Matrix Franchise.



[This message has been edited by moaiz (edited 11-05-2003).]

interesting, statement you got here, moaiz. i am going to watch the movie on friday
so, you say the end is quite disappointing? well....it also was in reloaded

The end was just not satisfying after the premise and backstory they set up. One could argue that the whole thing has been sloppy storytelling thats simply fx driven. The first movie set a trend by creating real time fx that were replicating visually what had been going on in kung fu/anime films for years. Those FX were driven by a fairly dark yet traditional anime/manga themed storyline and the best that came out of all that was Revolutions? Thirty minutes of cowboy bebop are more enticing than the entirety of Revolutions and I love CG. In the matrix the visual quality stayed at relatively the same level throughout the series I think even die hard fans can't help see the fraying edges of the cheap storyline. If I really need to subject myself to a FX driven movie I would rather see the stuff the guys at ILM crank out. After the nap and some reflection I can comfortably say that the character animation for Revolutions flat out sucked.

More Matrix questions:

What if everyone wants out at once? Well that would be an unplesant time for the machines, (sequel?).
Ok so will the peace hold? Not if they want more dvd/game/movie sales out of franchise.
Did they shove the 'trinity' suppository up far enough? Well lets see, he ¿dies? Then floating there held aloft in wires neo is lowered into some psuedo jesus christ pose....weak.
Did neo live? Well he was carried off atop a chariotlike machine that we last see as warm angelic glow... Humm, would that be like Elijah? Will neo someday return or be resurrected/rescued if the peace should fail?
Why not solar energy? The power supply for the machine city was initially solar. If its possible that a craft designed and developed by machines, the hovercraft, can breach the clouds why cant the vast armies of machines run some solar panels up there? It must be easier to fight a war to subjugate a sentient species with regular 100 year program cycle which results in the death of a quarter of a million of machines. Seems like a waste of resources and a bad return on investment from a logical point of view. I am all for suspension of disbelief to enjoy a movie but really, THEY CAN REACH SUNLIGHT, come on.

This cant be the end. They felt the need to mess with the terminator again some 15 years after the first one and you think this is the end of The Matrix?





[This message has been edited by moaiz (edited 11-06-2003).]

Loved the film, loved the ending...

I found the ending to be most appropriate.

Moaiz......so how did u want the end to be?

~Will watch the Movie on Saturday~

~Sig coming soon~

I paid $9.25 for my ticket. Caravaned with seven friends to Houston and back (90 miles each way). I'd do it again in a second. Movie was great. Ending was as perfect as it could have been.

Can't wait for the DVD.




It's pronounced "Spikes!"

I absolutely loved the movie. I thought the action sequences were excellent and the progression of Neo's understanding to be rather refreshing. Rather thenbeing the confused bumpkin, he actually had a clue this time.

I want to play the game now to find out how Niobe and her crew got to where they were.

quote:

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The question again, What is the matrix now? Is it just a place for those who choose to stay in that reality and programs that have no purpose?

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It is what it was, only now there is a choice. There are humans who WANT to stay in the matrix and the machines still need humans to continue their quality of life. You assume (at least I think so) that the Oracle's question pertained to only humans. It could pertain to those programs that don't want to be involved in the matrix beyond living there. Perhaps it is a deeper ending than you wanted. Maybe you wanted to be spoon fed the answer. Personally, I like having to think about it.

quote:

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Maybe you wanted to be spoon fed the answer. Personally, I like having to think about it.

---

I couldn't have said that better myself .

While watching Revolutions I picked up things from the first two that I never would have guessed.

For example, when that little girl (hatti I think?) was making cookies with the oracle (which was obviously portrayed by a different actress, why?) I remembered the scene in the first movie where Neo first met the oracle. Then it all made sense! She looked down Neo's throat, told him he wasn't the one, gave him the cookie, and then said "Maybe in your next life but not this one." Then in Reloaded, she mentions that nearly everything had a purpose, every program was written for a purpose, including the guy that wrote the program for the pie, the pie being a program for something. Then it hit me! When the architect was speaking to Neo he said that "The One" was a systematic program that is an inevitable result to zion's destruction (or something like that). So The Oracle wrote the program called "The One," which she put into a cookie, and gave to neo. Neo was then killed by the agents, BUT THEN, the program restarted him, with the abilities of The One. And all this time The Oracle knew what she was doing.

So that little girl that was making cookies with The Oracle was to become the next Oracle. But who were those cookies for?

I also figured out how Neo was able to stop the Sentinels(sp?) with his mind in the real world. When he spoke with the architect, his program that the oracle wrote for him was re-written by the Key Master so he could speak with the architect. And then the Architect added some more scripting to The One's program which stayed in the inputs in the back of Neo's head in the real world. The oracle told him he had to return to "The Source." And instead of returning to "The Source," when he was with the architect, Neo chose to save trinity. So when his script was re-written to speak to the architect, it was also re-written so he could go to "the source." And since he didn't, when he returned to the real world, his program still had that change of script which was..... BUM BUM BUM, the source code to all of the Machines. You see, the Machines created the program Architect, to create The Matrix, so that the Machines could live off of the humans. So the Architect obviously knew the source code to the machines since the machines created him to create the matrix. With the source code to the machines, it was like him being a giant remote to all of the sentinels. And when he closed his eyes (or had them burned off), he could see what the machines saw. Raw code.

I also thought that the "karma is just a word, like love" scene was pretty damn deep.

There were also a lot of Yin Yang standards in the two sequals. For example, The Architect wears white, but he's bad, where as Neo where's black but he's good. Also, the humans rely on machines to kill machines. The machines rely on humans (the ones in the matrix) to kill the humans. So in the second movie when the senator or whatever took Neo down to the end of Zion and showed him the construction feilds and said "Machines need us, and we need Machines," that was forshadowing the big battle in Revolutions.

I want to say more but I have to go right now...


_____________________
Prying open my third eye.

The actress who played the original oracle died, that's why there was a diferent actress playing the Oracle in Revolutions.

I personally like having to think...I found the ending to be brilliant!

insider: ahhhhhhhhh thx for that. that made things much clearer!

WS: But I thought that they filmed Reloaded and Revolutions at the same time, is this not true? If they did, they would have accomplished Revolutions at the same pace and time so they wouldn't have needed hire a new actress, unless the lady that played the original oracle died while filming.

Insider: Some good observations there. I disagree with some points though.

I think your idea about Neo's reprogrammings is an interesting and possible explanation for much of what happened. The quote about the next life is:

Oracle: You've got the stuff kid, but it looks like you're waiting for something.
Neo: Waiting for what?
Oracle: Your next life maybe, who knows?

That had never clicked before and I thank you for pointing it out. But here are some other things to consider in that regard. First, the Key Maker (not master ) didn't have to necessarily reprogram Neo for him to speak to the Architect. The Architect is a program just like all other programs in the Matrix. The Key Makers job was to open up the way to the Architect. i.e. A back door or perhaps the ONLY door. Second, why would the Architect reprogram Neo to be able to return to the source (in your theory) BEFORE Neo made the choice to do so? He clearly knew that the choice was there because he presented it to Neo. Finally, while inside the Matrix, Neo clearly could see things in pure code, in the real world not even the machines were made of pure code and what we saw (the yellow stuff) didn't resemble code at all. My impression was that Neo was somehow (I don't claim to know why) able to sense energy. Electric, kinetic (you see this while he is walking), heat, and so on. Where this perhaps falls apart is that he couldn't find Trinity when she was dying. Maybe there was too much other energy around for him to make sense of it just yet or something.

If you like the discussion about words you should read Plato's Meno you might like it.

The actress who played the oracle did indeed die during filming and thus they had to rewrite the script for a new actress. Would anyone care to explain the short explanation the oracle gives for her "change"?



It's pronounced "Spikes!"

I don't quite remember the words said in the movie but the gist of it that I got was that she narrowly escaped the Smith. She had to port her program to a new HD basically. In other words, imprint herself on a new human. Remember how her gaurdian looked to Neo? She never appeared that way to him... at least that they showed. She was adept at hiding. That's my theory anyway. The Smith took certain pleasure in her need to change shells.

I also liked the scene in the train station. I thought that was pretty cool. Yes the Trainman is the guy from Road Warrior: Beyond Thunderdome.

I think the trainstation was exactly the way it should have been. Nothing special so it didn't attract attention. It was the Merovingian's backdoor. Why put up a flashing Neon sign? It was made to be hidden. Remember it's a lightweight matrix construct not unlike the loading program the humans use to hack into the matrix. It's a small file and easy to miss. Why make some bulky overweight heavily coded structure for a simple password protected backdoor? Hell, Neo was probably the biggest piece of code to move through there.


Your yin/yang comment is spot on, InSiDeR. Did anybody else but me notice the Oracle's earrings? Take a look next time you see the movie. Not to mention that the entire matrix is a chess game for the Architect and the Oracle. Maybe Othello is a better analogy. It is a very interesting thing to think about. Maybe the Oracle had less interest in helping then humans than she did in not being bored anymore. Tired of the same old game, she wanted to change the board, make new rules.


[This message has been edited by GrythusDraconis (edited 11-06-2003).]

interesting stuff guys. saw revolutions yesterday afternoon and enjoyed it (definitely had a frenetic pace to it tho). this one does take up right where the last left off, and while it was entertaining i haven't decided if it answered everything we needed to know or not. the attack on zion sequence was amazing, the scale of those shots was incredible. i'll prob be checking it out again tomorrow night to see what i missed the first time around.

interesting points raised in here, i'm gonna have to re-read all this tomorrow before i go. and GD, you dedinitely need to play the game, fills in a lot of cool stuff about niobe and ghost and what actually happened with them and with bane.

chris


KAIROSinteractive

also, a random thought, anyone else have the thought that the ambassador/senator was the One that preceded neo? i had this thought with reloaded, then it was reinforced when the kid (whose name escapes me, the one who was annoying neo in the last film) runs into zion yelling "its over!" and the ambassador has a very confused look on his face.

chris


KAIROSinteractive

I would think not. If he was the last "one" that would mean the last time Zion was destroyed was only 70 years ago or so. It would take a group of 21 people (13 female, 7 male, and current "one") much much longer to rebuild that city and have that many people to populate it. I think the last "one" was probably more like a couple hundred years ago. Morpheus says "for over one hundred years we have fought this war" but that doesn't necessarily mean that the civilization just began one hundred years ago.

Gonna have to think about this one some more.

Actually fig I think that when zion is destroyed its a complete re-boot. I dont think anyone carries over but I like the idea that it could be a conspiracy with the machines.

I liked the kid, that was my favorite sequence of the animatrix. I wished I had seen the animatrix and played the game before viewing reloaded since the events in the two lend so heavily to the start of reloaded, (the animatrix contains a sequence called final flight of the osiris which has a the tape drop which leads into the game, the game ends at the start of reloaded with nairobi ). I really liked how they transitioned into reloaded with the two other mediums. It was a very intelligent transition which was admittedly lost on the bulk of the moviegoing public. They didnt make that same mistake for revolutions.

The train station and all the events surrounding it seemed too circular. ok, he ends up at the train station you know that no matter what neo will get out of the train station.

Neo chats it up, (enter blissfully enlightening moment with a program where he learns that machines too love :'( ) realizes he is stuck...at any point is there any possibilty he wont get out? Nope, you know he's getting out, its just about the how. Ok, the visual station. Well it draws to mind the fight scene with agent smith, coincidental reminder or intentional bludgenoning? Anyway, the station is a conduit between the machine world and the matrix. Being that the little wooden boy is that close to the source and in-between worlds you would think that if anywhere neo's flashes of scenes to come would be stronger there than in the matrix or in zion, especially since at that point he is disconnected from his body existing purely as 'the one'.

Ok so back to trinity and morpheus, they go in to get neo out, (surprising ~gasp~ ) Them getting him out is a foregone conclusion, you know that no matter what Neo is getting out...

So what was the purpose of the scene? To introduce a new actress in the part of the oracle? To see seraph kick ass? To see another pillared lobby/elevator scene? To watch trinity do that same bullshit kick 3x harder than she ever did before? To see the same damn club scene? To do the whole 'dialouge with guns' bit? To see trinity do her silly little tumble as they stop motion a gun overhead? Even when the Frenchman gives the absurd demand for the eyes of the oracle you know know....no matter what, neo is getting out. Then cut from Trinity's gun to the Frenchman's head to >>> tonsil hockey in the train station...ok, nothing wrong with that....fluid, seamless.

Ok, what was the purpose of the scene? In my humble opinion, they took all the key 'wow' moments that the average dullard would remember from the 2 previous movies, (or any Matrix movie/DVD trailer you had seen) and then pantomimed you through it.

Having James Earl Jones voiceover the background story to a 30 minute combined fight sequence from the prior works would have been slightly less obvious.

Another question. After the death of Smith inside the matrix the only inhabitants you see are programs. If smith 'conquered' the matrix and smith was destroyed then the machines agreed to peace while having zero living power plants plugged in? Did all the inhabitants of the matrix die? If they did then the war and the batteries become even more important at that point...why stop?

Bane, did they really have to name the one person outside of the matrix infected with Agent Smith such a blatant name. I guess with the average american having a working vocabulary of 800 words naming a "bad guy" Bane might just be considered sublime.

I just dont see how the intelligence and uniqueness of initial Matrix concept could have been so dumbed down...




[This message has been edited by moaiz (edited 11-07-2003).]

[Note: I was kind of surprised to see people reading this thread who haven't seen the movie yet. I know this is a spoilers thread, but here's another warning: spoiler ahead.]

At the risk of sounding like one of the sheep moaiz despises so much, I think the movie ended the only way it could have. When Neo asks the new and improved Oracle who Smith is, she says (paraphrasing), "He's you, just the negative version." When I heard that I knew how the movie was going to end. Neo is 1, Smith is -1, and together they make 0. So while it may have felt like a bit of a let-down emotionally (especially after the intensity of the Zion scenes), I don't see how they could have ended it any other way.

Those are some interesting theories you all have, especially InSiDeR. I never really thought about that, but then again I must admit that I never really thought too hard about the Matrix. Yeah, I'll come clean: I watched the Matrix movies because they were fun to watch, and I didn't worry myself too much about the philosophy. Maybe that makes me one of the mindless masses, I don't know.

I will say that I'm rather annoyed that I'm supposed to buy and play a computer game to find out what happened between movies. That part always kind of pissed me off, to be honest. Not seriously pissed off, of course--after all, it's just a movie. At the end of the day, if I can say I had fun watching it, then that's good enough for me.

Although my wife and I do agree that the first one was the best of the bunch.


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org

The underlying concept of choice is similar to all belief systems. You live, you choose, you die, you get written into a sequel, the Karmic circle. I enjoy driving fast on curvy roads, I like not knowing whats around the corner until I drop down a hill and hit the apex of the curve. Revolutions did not provide me with any uncertainty, no curves, no changes in elevation. It was just laid out in a straight line ascent with lots of simple billboards with large letters to tell me what was ahead. And while I do despise the sheep, (unless they are arranged in a rack and baked with a nice rub) I didnt actually call anyone out. I dont see anything wrong with liking the movie at all. It was a nice piece of eye-candy with nearly all the requisite elements. I personally find that I had higher expectations for it that I certainly did not realize before hand. Maybe in time I too can enjoy it for what it is and not what I hoped it could have been.

quote:

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Although my wife and I do agree that the first one was the best of the bunch.

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What I don't understand is how people can judge those three movies individually. I look at them as one big movie, just as I do with LOTR because they're one right after another, picking up from there the other left off. The only reason they didn't make the three movies one big movie was because no one wants to sit through a movie for 9 hours, same with LOTR.

insider - a valid point, except that the first movie was made to be an entire story, in and of itself.

...and comparing the three movies as one whole story to the first movie as one whole story, i definitely prefer the first movie alone.

reitsma

InSiDeR: Personally, I disagree, but it's really just semantics. Call it one big movie, if you like--I still say I liked the first part better. We have the first part on DVD, but I'm not sure if we'll be getting the others.

Oh, yeah, and what Reitsma said.

[Edit: Hmm... I reread moaiz's last post, and realized that it was in reply to mine. In response: obviously we went into the movie with different expectations. I've been pretty stressed lately, and I was looking forward to an all-out action-fest with lots of cool special effects. I got what I was looking for. You, on the other hand, were looking for something deeper, and you were disappointed. To be honest with you, part of me was hoping that it was going to be a fitting cap to the series in philsophical terms, but as soon as I saw the "billboards" I realized that it just wasn't going to happen--it was, to borrow Smith's favorite word, "inevitable." To save myself from disappointment, I "turned off" that part of me that might have wanted something deeper and just sat back to enjoy the eye candy. I guess you could say that I refused to let myself be disappointed, because I've got enough crap going on right now without having to get pissed off at a movie.

I also enjoy good roast mutton, incidentally.]
___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org

MOAIZ, I basicly agree with you on everything I was very disapointed.
ending looks like cheap bible rip off..the whole movie just stuffs your brain with phylosophical bullshit...rather than thinking about yin and yang....I would go with newtons 3rd law, "for every action there is a reaction".

the ending was horible....why, when, what????
so in a sense the whole movie seemed about deleting virus=(smith) from freaking matrix, rebooting it again and sacrificing neo...but what about humans and machine relationship? what will happen? will machines release humans? will they still use them for enegery?

it self the matrix was alot like anime....kind of like evangelion just not that confusing....and the final fight scene with neo and smith looked too much like Dragon Ball bullshit....

well I wouldnt be disapointed if only I knew they would continue it...the disapointment come from knowing that its the last movie for gods sake.
it throws all the 2nd movie questions to the garbage...


yes the first movie was THE BEST.
the reason I judge them seperatly insider is cause, they waited way to long to finnally make a sequal...was like 2 years or something.....and it didnt seem to connect to the first...the whole feel of 2nd and 3rd movie was different, nothing like compared to first..

ohh and yea moaiz, just like you stated I think they overused CG...the first movie used alot better techniques on fx....CG gone bad, everything looked way to obviouse in 2nd and 3rd...I have to say I did liked the robots....but bah =( I hope wackowskis wont screw up anything else.

but then again it something different for Sci-fi so it deserves the credit

Interesting stuff I have found in search of *THE TRUTH*...

Matrix Revolutions - The Mother of all Spoilers
Pointer to the last article
The Architect Transcript
KMC Forums - The OFFICIAL "For those who've seen Revolutions"
Alternate Reality


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

I'm not going to argue with any of you about the deeper meaning of the movie here. It's like arguing about religion. Moaiz thinks the philosophy of the movie was weak and that it was eye candy. I thought the movie was exactly the opposite. The movie was extremely effective because it makes you think and there are many conclusions that can be drawn. Personally I loved it and it's replaced Star Wars as my favorite sci-fi movie of all time.

But man, I read through that first link that Petskull posted and that guy is off his fucking rocker.

Hopefully I'll be able to score some tickets with Revo comes through the IMAX here in KC.

:::11oh1:::

Ohh and I forgot to mention how much they ripped off Ghost in the Shell....
The whole idea...*gasp*....holy moly...wackowski bros ripped japs big time!
the final fight...Vegeta(smith) vs GOKU(neo)! OMG! what an assholes! rippin rippin and rippin!

edit= Ohh my god its so obviouse, the whole movie is explained from the beggining!
I know everything!
The first most frame of the movie!
0,1

YAY!

BINARY!

Neo and Smith are erros!

NEo is 1 and smith is 0!

the algorithym of a balance equation!

unbalancing the algo; will make the system reboot and kill smith !

thats what the oracle just told neo and smith!

neo dies smith dies

the matrix will reboot

Duh!

and ending sucked soo much! cheap bible rip off!

=)

0110000101110011011100110110100001101111011011000110010101110011

[This message has been edited by Ruski (edited 11-07-2003).]

Ruski: OK, take a deep breath. I'd just like to point out that there's a difference between "ripping off" somebody and being "heavily influenced" by somebody. This is the nature of art, and the cinema is no exception. Artists borrow from their influences as a way of paying homage to their genius.

Now if they had taken the scene lock, stock and barrel and simply inserted it into the movie, that would be a rip off. As it is, it is a "borrowing." You can argue, if you like, about whether or not the Wachowski brothers did justice to the original, but you cannot call it a rip off. Especially the Bible/Jesus connection. Do you realize how much art in the Western world plays off the Bible? Are you prepared to call every single piece of art that does so a rip-off? I would have thought that, being an artist, you'd understand this.


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org

just got back from the cinema
well, i didn't like the movie that much
it was more a sci fi war film than the matrix. what i was wondering about: in matrix 1 humans are fighting against the machines because they enslaved them.
at the end of revolutions, everyone is happy about the "peace"...so and what about the enslaved humans then?

Suho: If originality is the Art of Concealing your sources it appears that as the series progressed the originality became more scarce.

Mas: It seems logical that the peace will fail. Zion is a guerilla culture with some infusion in population from the matrix and some from birth. Now if you take the naked cave rave/spawning ritual as any indicator then its a given that eventually the population of zion will grow to a size where resources become an issue espeically since a natural predator, the agents/sentinels, has been removed from the equation. Will the residents of zion no longer venture into the matrix to free people? If they are caught doing so during peace time what happens, maybe a slap-fight?

Suho if you ever seen "ghost in the shell" you will know what I am talking about "ripping off" A HUGE DEAL of ripping ! you probably have no idea how many ideas/scenes they took from japanese anime....it basicly makes work very unoriginal, and yes I am calm whatever.
I just hate the movie now...kind of stupid and as I said before ending sucks big time IMP.

Mas, you need to watch animatrix! it explains everything...machines always were after peace...unfortunaitly humans are stupid...thats why they destroyed the sky and so on....machines never were power hungry, humans always wanted power! thats why machines build matrix...they could of course simply destroy all the humans, but since humans are their "master" in a way machines are simply protecting themself...as well trying to keep stupid humans "happy" and controlable, probably so that humans wont cause anymore trouble.
Neo was the only one who actually understood it and sacrified himself to reboot matrix...thats why he let smith infect himself....loosing balance between 0 and 1 causing the system to reboot.

I did not really like the end, but when you think about it, was there really any other way? You can't just disconnect billions of people from the matrix simultaneously, and you could not defeat the machines that are keeping them alive. Either way, they all would have died. The only way to end this was through a truce, and Smith was the means to the truce. He was a mutual bad guy to both the machines and humans, a common enemy which brought them together. More psychobabble about how we need them and they need us, symbiotic relationship.

At least now people (and machines?) have a choice. But, do they know the choice exists? Imagine the evening news, "You all live in a computer generated dreamworld, if you want out, call 1.800.LEAVE.NOW." Imagine the chaos that would create. How do you tell them the choice?

The big flaw with the storyline, which I believe was discussed above, was the fact that the machines went through so much trouble to enslave the human race for power when they could have easily harvested solar energy from above. Or are they saying the machines couldn't climb a few hundred measly meters into the sky? Yeah, I suppose the lightning could short them out, but have they never heard of insulation? Looked like they had that capability to me.

There are many other possibilities of power besides solar as well. For one, what about all that lightning in the real world? Could they not have harvested that? What about nuclear or some other futuristic type power source which I am sure the machines had the capabilities to create. And even if humans were the only available power source, why let us keep our consciousness? Did the machines wish to be entertained? I guess that is a possibility, but not likely IMO. This flaw pretty much punches a hole in the entire storyline and makes it unbelievable.

Don't get me wrong, the premise of the movie was and still is great, but that one flaw makes that premise pointless.

I guess I came away from this ending with more questions than I went in with. I need to watch all the movies, animatrix, and video game as a whole, and then judge them, as I believe every true fan should. I have a lot of respect for these guys as film-makers, and because of that I believe there is more.

My only other complaint is that Revolutions did not fit the tone and tempo of the other films. It was NOT the Matrix and just did not seem to fit the theme. Besides the philosophy, my favorite part of the Matrix was the fight scenes. Part 3 lacked this, and that was disappointing. I can watch any number of movies if I want to see spaceship & spaceship like machines blowing up all over the place. I did not want traditional scifi, I wanted the matrix, I didn't get it, the main source of my displeasure. Did it make me any less of a fan, not really, becuase they are still 3 pretty damn good movies. Then Animatrix rocked, and I am looking forward to playing the game.

afterall machines are the ones keeping stupid humans alive....there is no plants left, no animals everything is dead... :P
correct me if I am wrong...

All I want to know is why Neo could see and manipulate things in the real world.

I have not come up with or read any answer that realy works so far. If that was made clear I would be most HAPPAY!

moaiz:

quote:

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If originality is the Art of Concealing your sources it appears that as the series progressed the originality became more scarce.

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That's an interesting way of putting it. Can't argue with you there.

Ruski: I understand your point. You're upset because, as moaiz mentioned, they borrowed more and more blatantly from other (anime in particular) sources. I must admit that some of the borrowing did seem to be a bit much. I still maintain, though, that it wasn't so much the borrowing as it was the inability to fully integrate the material into the movie.

I'm sorry you hate the movie... it certainly wasn't my favorite movie of all time, but it was a fun ride. I tried to enjoy it as much as I could.


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Suho: www.liminality.org

eyezear: it was wireless hack into the matrix, I think....
since machines are connected to the matrix he was basicly connected into the matrix as well just "wireless" , how he does it? i dunno...just some Holywood cheese...so basicly he was operating machines from inside, making them go BOOM....no he couldnt control "everything" just that...IMP

well suho, the first one ruled!

its not only because of that story and barrowing...the effects were boring...they looked so fake, they overused 3D way too much.

quote:

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just some Holywood cheese...

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Jesus H. Christ, Ruski, if you've learned anything from watching the movie you would have learned that everything had/has a purpose. Just because you can't understand the general messages that were implied doesn't mean that they don't exist. Stop being so close-minded, you're bitching at every little detail that didn't make sense to you.

Insider, its not about being closed minded, the logic flaws were in the first movie too, example:

What good would the "...codes for zion's mainframe" do the machines? Zion is an isolated system run by the best hackers to escape from the matrix, is it not?

But the story was told with enough style and consistency that questions like that werent asked, people just enjoyed the movie for what it was and still is, a great story that pulls you in with intelligent detail and purpose. When the story unravels and it turns into an FX driven franchise people start looking to see whats behind the curtain. Dont get your custom tailored trenchcoat all in a bindle, some people just didnt buy into it. It still had some great hilights, maybe the next one will be that much better. We can certainly agree to disagree.

Tragic sequel to a perfect idea. The movie blew chunks.

PLEASE ELABORATE

Ruski: Yes, the first one did rock. I think we can all agree on that.

moaiz: Did you say "next one"?


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Suho: www.liminality.org