Preserved Topic: Dinosaur Adventure Land! (or, how the Creationists explain the Dinosaurs) (Page 1 of 9)

Dinosaur Adventure Land

Just...wow.

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This hasn't got anything to do with this, has it?

Ummm...get Paid to surf?? No, I don't think so....I do se a quick "Jesus Saves" type URL, but then it gets re-directed...

WebShaman | Asylum D & D | D & D Min Page

Jesus Saves is a really good slayer tune.

First of all: that page takes entirely too long to load for it's content. Second of all it is strictly against my beliefs to mix creationism and evolution. I just don't think it's possible. I'd like to explain more but I have an oral surgeon appointment in about 45 minutes. Upon my return I will write more.


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(Edited by Sanzen on 05-12-2004 15:18)

WOW.....speachless...

where do they gte money to make such a bullshit?
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Hey Rameses, I once with a friend surfed through it and we tried reading about Dinosaurs. I rememebr it said that Dinos were vegitarians, (classic stuff)...we were like "nah no one can be that stupid" and tried emailing the guy. The replay came in the next couple of days "crarifying" all the bullshit.

Most of the replays were "it's true because it says so in the bible" or he would quote random verses from random chapters and books and try to put them together to form an "evidence"

He also said some crazy shit about Dinosours being on Ark...ohh man I could go on forever...but some people have to be kept away from technology...

for fucks sake those people think earth is 3000 years old..

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those people think earth is 3000 years old

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Those people do not think[i] the world is 3k old they believe it. Rather sad.

^my bad

Ok i'm back now. I have to go in for oral surgery next week

Anyways, I'm EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY tired of christians. In particular, the christians who claim that evolution and creationism can co-exist. It's ok if a christian wants to claim this, BUT: Science says NO. It's not a two-way relationship. Christians can believe in some kind of macro-evolution, but evolution says that god doesn't exist. This is how you know SOMETHING is wrong. I have christians who harrass me daily and try to convert me. This is just more of their bullshit, trying to run the world. It disgusts me.


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(Edited by Sanzen on 05-12-2004 17:53)

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Christians can believe in some kind of macro-evolution, but evolution says that god doesn't exist.

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care to elaborate? cause i disagree...

chris


KAIROSinteractive | tangent oriented

me too


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Science (evolution) says that there is no God. Anyone who says otherwise is demeaning it's value. That is the BASIS of science in itself; Without this basis, science is no longer science: it is DOGMA. They cannot intertwine, if they do it is neither here nor there: you've got some concoction that's not evolution and its not creationism, and you shouldn't call it either.

There is a pseudo-intellectual Christian faction that believes there is some sort of micro-evolution after God created the earth, or humans rather. Creationism means no evolution; evolution means no creationism. I'm tired of people mixing the two. It's ignorant. This is just a move by the christians so they don't have to admit they're wrong, or that they can't explain something. Evolution is soon going to turn into Christianity's loopholes scapegoat.

[edit] micro/macro... who cares[/edit]


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(Edited by Sanzen on 05-12-2004 19:22)

Ohh fuck people..stop this childish bullshit!

cmon..just accept the fact dammit!

Evolution is Science! Has nothing to do with Buddha, Jesus, Moses, Allah, gods of any kind or any religion.

the purpose of science is to answear question "how" and "when", not "why" or explore some "truth" and "light:

"why" is left to religions, phylosphy etc. and whatever you chose to believe.

And I fucking wish all those creationists can get over it and accept that their religions is nothing more than religion...stop mixing this shit up and arguing over it.

Why do they even argues with scientists? whats the point? what do they have? Stories? againstphysical evidence? shiiiit....

Those creationists make Christianity look horrible.

Same thing goes to people who prefare science....science is just a science not a religion stop trying to argue with some asshole fanatics or say there is no "god" or magical being. Believe whatever the hell you want to believe...they want to be stupid fine let them believe earth is flat and T-rex was a vegitarian, and that all non christians are going to hell.

If someone is a fanatics you cannot change the way they think. Regardless of their faith. (I hope it can be done, but I doubt it)

IMO science would never have got involved in this shitty debates if those extremists would left them alone.

Besided the point, why people debate this crap? I mean all religions and faithes have their own story how shit happened. Why debate over it? It's clear it's nothing more than a religion/faith and its all left up to just that "faith"


It's like oil and water...do not mix it.....

thats the point i was trying to make. is that it shouldn't be mixed.


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Science (evolution) says that there is no God.

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There are many different flavors of "evolution". From what I understand, Charles Darwin was trying to explain the origin of species in a way that left God completely out of the equation. But that does not mean that all that we've learned about evolutionary theory since his time hasn't brought forth different theories and possibilities.

You use the word ignorant to describe people who look for a middle ground between science and religion. How so? Speaking as an ignorant pseudo-intellectual Christian myself, I spend much of my time reviewing new information, ideas and data about my faith and the world in which I live. I always associated people who thought they have it all figured out and didn't need to learn anything new to be the ignorant ones.

You have a choice in this matter and God was the one who set it up that way. You can choose to open your eyes and observe the physical world He put you in and do your best to learn and live as best you can. Or you can hold on to narrow beliefs that are designed specifically to relieve you of thinking difficult thoughts. I fear that many of our bretheren do just this when they say there is no mixing between science and religion. Why do we so quickly forget that some to the greatest scientific minds of centuries gone by were religious people? Do the names Kepler, Galileo or Newton ring any bells? These men did not see a barrier between the two and nor should you.

It is a mistake to think you can keep "thinking" separate from "believing". God demands the best from our spirit as well as our mind and I think you do a serious disservice by announcing to the world that a good Xian is an ignorant Xian.


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It is non christian to admit that there is evolution. To admit that would be to admit that God is imperfect, because he made man in his likeness. There are not many flavors of evolution. There are many falacies that have been created in an attempt to merge evolution with another concept. This makes something that IS NOT EVOLUTION. Evolution means evolution and nothing else.

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You have a choice in this matter and God was the one who set it up that way. You can choose to open your eyes and observe the physical world He put you in and do your best to learn and live as best you can.

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This irritates the living fuck out of me. Dont tell me what god did or didn't do for me, stop trying to transpose your dogma on my beliefs. I'm not even gonna say shit about this entirely biased and stupid paragraph.

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God demands the best from our spirit as well as our mind and I think you do a serious disservice by announcing to the world that a good Xian is an ignorant Xian.

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I announce that a Good Xian is a Xian who keeps his Xianity to his Xing self.


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(Edited by Sanzen on 05-12-2004 20:02)

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This makes something that IS NOT EVOLUTION.

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Like it or not, not all adherents to the theory of evolution say that it must exclude the existence of God. There are different flavors of the theory. I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just think holding onto such a narrow definition serves no purpose other than relieving you of dealing with the real issue. The real issue is how do you explain to nonXians how so much physical data looks like the world is ancient while you maintain it is only a few thousand years old; among other things.

When I say I believe the theory of evolution, I mean that I am an active participant in the scientific method. We have an abundance of physical data concerning species that used to roam this earth and until we come up with a better explanation we go with the one we've got. The creation accounts (yes that's plural!) in Genesis were written long before our current culture existed. They were not written with modern science in mind or even our preoccupation with chronology for that matter, they were written with a specific goal in mind from a specific people that lived then. The mistake many of us today make is to project our culture onto theirs without realizing we have to read Genesis with an understanding of the people and mindset who wrote it.

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I'm not even gonna say shit about this entirely biased and stupid paragraph.

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Heh! Too late

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I announce that a Good Xian is a Xian who keeps his Xianity to his Xing self.

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That is about as non-Biblical of a statement that can be uttered. Care to back it up?


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The real issue is how do you explain to nonXians how so much physical data looks like the world is ancient while you maintain it is only a few thousand years old; among other things.

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I don't get that at all. That seems like a question I would ask a Christian.

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That is about as non-Biblical of a statement that can be uttered. Care to back it up?

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The Bible says that Christian should find his own way. Therefor, pushing any form of Christianity on anyone is wrong. Trying to get anyone to believe in Christianity is unethical, even by Biblical standards. Missionaries are about the most unchristian organization there is. It's like saying to people that even if there is a heaven, and even if you are a good person that you wont get into heaven (like its some kind of fucking night club) if you dont believe in god. I'm not a bad person, I live my life based on moral and personal values. I am a satanist/humanist. But even though I live a good life, and I treat people good - I give to charities, I help my friends - I can't get into heaven. So... in that case, I say fuck God.. that elitist bastard.


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To claim that science says there is no god is pure ignorance.

Science may not have evidence to prove there is a god, but a lack of evidence does not prove that something does not exist.

Evolution, in any of it's accepted flavors, does not prove that god does not exist, nor is in any way anti-christian.

This is very troubling:

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Science (evolution) says that there is no God. Anyone who says otherwise is demeaning it's value. That is the BASIS of science in itself; Without this basis, science is no longer science: it is DOGMA

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The basis of science is that there is no god? Are you insane? The "basis" of sicence is the desire to learn and be able to explain the things in our universe. To try to say that the basis of that learning is the scientifically baseless notion of an entity not existing completely undermines what science is all about.

You seem to have things a bit backwards - to say that sicence says there is no god is very dogmatic, and is very much akin to saying the 'the bible says there is a god, so there is'.

It is insulting to science when someone tries to use it in the very manner for which they condemn religious people using their religious dogma.

Understand that I say this as a stuanch atheist myself.

{{edit - sanzen posted while I was typing...

What I've never understood is why someone would be so against religion, and yet - rather than simply skip religion - must cling to such silly things as satanism. Of course, depending on where you go, satanism can consist of a great many things. In any case, it is pure nonsense and it's very existence says a great deal about the people who follow it.

If you're so sure there is no god, and so sure that the big religions are all wrong, then grow up and stop mimicking the very things you condemn.

(Edited by DL-44 on 05-12-2004 20:58)

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Evolution, in any of it's accepted flavors, does not prove that god does not exist, nor is in any way anti-christian.

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Yes, yes it does. If it didn't, then God wouldn't have created man, he would have created little micro-organisms billions of years ago that evolved in to the billions of lifeforms we have today. It says in the Bible that God made the earth, and all the lifeforms, all the bodies of landscapes and brought light to the earth in 7 days. This in and of itself delineates any symbiotic there could be between Evolution and Creationism. The bible is a fictional bible meant for entertainment and perhaps something to base your morals on, jesus is a moral figure. Not a prophet, not the son of god. The bible is no way to explain the origins of the world, and the beings in it. You cannot merge religion and science - it's blasphemy or it's illogical.

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It is insulting to science when someone tries to use it in the very manner for which they condemn religious people using their religious dogma.

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It's also insulting when someone tries to use scientific basis to fill the gaps of their little fantasy world Gods. You marr the credibility of hundreds of years of people who were being persecuted for scientific (evolutionary) research by the very hands of people who are now trying to use it to have the upper hand yet again. Christians are trying to dominate the world, man, and they'll suck up every bit of anti-christian evidence and try to use it to explain why they're right. Christians will not admit that evolution could be true, even when presented with facts.

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What I've never understood is why someone would be so against religion, and yet - rather than simply skip religion - must cling to such silly things as satanism

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Said someone who doesn't know what satanism/humanism is.


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(Edited by Sanzen on 05-12-2004 21:08)

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The Bible says that Christian should find his own way.

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Where?


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Sazen stop being so ignorant...dont forget religion doesnt just consist of christianity and we live in the world where people believe not only in "god" but also spirits, random divinity and other numerous dieties and lets not forget that wars have been waged for thousands of years because of each side's stories.

So not only God, but Zeus, and Allah and The great Spirit of Bahram and yadda yadda...here is a good site for you www.religioustolerance.org

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Why do we so quickly forget that some to the greatest scientific minds of centuries gone by were religious people? Do the names Kepler, Galileo or Newton ring any bells? These men did not see a barrier between the two and nor should you.

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now bugs, show me the proof that those people were religious, for all I know most of them ussually were members of secret society that strongly opposed religion/church

I cannot imagine Galileo being religious after what church had done to him...no wonder he joined Illuminatis
and Isaac Newton being member of "the Priory of Sion"

(Edited by Ruski on 05-12-2004 22:01)

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Sazen stop being so ignorant...dont forget we not only live in the world of where people believe in "god" but also spirits, random divinity and other numerous dieties and lets not forget that wars have been waged for thousands of years becouse of them they oppose one another because each claims their story is the true one and their way is the right way.

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Hahaha, I am a satanist, therefor I believe in a carnal spirit or spiritual primal force that is "satan". Or maybe you should read that link you sent me

Since when was it assumed that I am an atheist?


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(Edited by Sanzen on 05-12-2004 21:58)

If anything, evolution could be used as evidence to prove the existence of God.

Oh man, forget it. This is pointless.


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Sanzen, please tell us where the bible says a christian must find his own way.


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[romoved sentence]was useless...


Is that Mr.Satan himself below? (hence: sarcasm)

http://www.waxy.org/random/images/weblog/gay_satan.jpg

Edit by Wes: Sorry, I simply refused to read this thread with the horizontal scroll.

(Edited by Ruski on 05-12-2004 22:22)

(Edited by Wes on 05-13-2004 02:37)

You really have no idea what you're talking about


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You really have no idea what you're talking about

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hey pot, this is kettle...

chris


KAIROSinteractive | tangent oriented

(Edited by Fig on 05-12-2004 22:18)

And this is lock...

*wishes I had mod powers*

I'm done with this thread, you guys are idiots. I thought this was a decent discussion up until ruski came into it.


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There is a significant lack of wisdom I see here.

There is no such thing as lack of wisdom when it comes to opinions, because thats what opinions are.


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decent discussion

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decent discussion???


by insulting Chrisitans and telling them the way they should fallow their faith? as if you know everything?

Since when do you think you know everything?

I didn't tell anyone how to follow their faith, I was just voicing my opinion. Bugimus is a smart guy, and I enjoy discussion. I was just playing devil's advocate (no pun intended).

I never said his God was a little guy with a toy trident. That's insulting.

Since when do you think YOU know everything?


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The Bible says that Christian should find his own way. Therefor, pushing any form of Christianity on anyone is wrong. Trying to get anyone to believe in Christianity is unethical, even by Biblical standards. Missionaries are about the most unchristian organization there is. It's like saying to people that even if there is a heaven, and even if you are a good person that you wont get into heaven (like its some kind of fucking night club) if you dont believe in god.

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ok, what do you call this? whoa re you even to say this? Buggimus asked you to clarify and point him out where it says. Yet you didnt...

Me, I never claimed to know anything, I didn't hold any side on this thread, my main purpose was to say that 2 things have nothing to do with each other and should be kept seperate and people should believe whatever they want to. As well shut up about it.

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Me, I never claimed to know anything, I didn't hold any side on this thread, my main purpose was to say that 2 things have nothing to do with each other and should be kept seperate and people should believe whatever they want to.

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That is exactly the point of my first post on this thread until it got out of hand. I don't think they can be, or should be, mixed. And it was as simple as that - it turned from that to me attacking the christians and people who dont even know what satanists stand for attacking me (I can only suppose you think i'm one of those people that everyone picked on and i try and cast spells and I wear black all the time, and then drink cats blood ... or something... as is the christian-given stereotype).


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to be honest I have never met them and never seen them (like they say, only in America)

I am yet to live in the united states and find out.

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Yes, yes it does. If it didn't, then God wouldn't have created man, he would have created little micro-organisms billions of years ago that evolved in to the billions of lifeforms we have today

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No, no it doesn't.

It proves that genesis cannot be taken 100% literally. And that's about it.

The concept of god is not confined to the bible or to the catholic faith.

Science cannot - so far - prove that there is not a god who may have in fact created " little micro-organisms billions of years ago that evolved in to the billions of lifeforms we have today".

It is only blasphemy to think so in certain sects of certain faiths.

You are lumping a whole lot of things together and mocking the concept of science by assuming that it proves things which it cannot.

Not to mention the fact that the christians took everything over a very long timje ago. These days, they play a far lesser role in the world, in the sense of the religion itself and it's role in the world.
.

Regardless o the specifics of your particular brand of 'satanism', you shun religion, yet you cling to one, and mockery of one at that. That's just silly, IMO.

(Edited by DL-44 on 05-12-2004 23:59)

satanism isn't a religion to me, it's more of a philosophy. I dont shun religion at all. I shun christianity.

I'm not saying that science proves there is no god. I'm saying evolutionary principle in turn equates to there being no god. Darwinism denies religion. Darwinism is the basis of all evolutionary principles. I dont care if christianity wants to twist evolution to fit their needs. But scientists should not twist creationism to fit their needs.

If you can't take one part of the bible literally, how are you supposed to take any of it literally. I read the bible as a fiction book. Jesus is a moral character, and nothing else.

The only time I said it PROVED God didn't exist was a reflex post to someone's reply, I never said it PROVED anything myself. I'm a skeptic. I dont say things are PROVEN often.


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(Edited by Sanzen on 05-13-2004 00:23)

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I dont shun religion at all. I shun christianity.

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Oh, ok. Thankyou for clarifying.

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Darwinism denies religion. Darwinism is the basis of all evolutionary principles.

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No it doesn't, or at least I can't see how it does. As far as I'm concerned the theory that Charles Darwin came up with had nothing to do with God or beings of divinity. Scientific evolution is a fact, creatures have evolved and adapted over millions of years. The theory that humans have evolved from apes, using the same scientific fact that we know as evolution, is a theory.

I just thought I'd clear that up.

(Edited by InSiDeR on 05-13-2004 00:26)