Great heart by the US side in the second half, especially being down a man. Great work by Keller in the net. We definitely had some chances, and I think we got robbed at least once (the incredibly blatant handling foul in the penalty area that wasn't called--what was up with that?).
So now we need to beat Ghana, and Italy needs to beat the Czech Republic. Not impossible, but we still have yet to score a goal. It really would have been nice to have a win against Italy, but apparently it was not in the cards.
Oh yeah... and I almost forgot I had this sig... (just pretend is says 2006 )
I have all my voice left. Since my wife was asleep beside me, I had to watch the match in complete silence. That was rough.
Yeah, I was kind of miffed about Beasley's goal... did McBride actually touch the ball? I thought he let it go. I'm a bit fuzzy on the new offside rule. I thought that you weren't offside unless you actually touched the ball? How exactly does it work?
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-17-2006 23:03
Yup, for a 1 - 1, we need to beat Ghana, and Italy needs to beat Czech.
Italy beating Czech looks pretty good - Czech has no offensive players (Stormers) left that can play because they are all yellowcarded.
US beating Ghana? It is in the cards, looking at how the US played against Italy.
They just need to SCORE!
Of course, Czech might beat Italy anyway.
Then the US can still win, if they get enough Goals to outscore Italy. Since Itally has 3, we need to score 3 more (we had too many goals scored against us to win with an even goal standing). If we can score 3 goals against Ghana, and Italy scores none against Czech, then we would squeek by as well.
The whole thing is still open!!!!!!!!
Thanks to Ghana and the US!!!!
WOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-17-2006 23:05
Apparently you are offsides if the ball is touched by your side and you are closer to the opponents goal as any other opposing player at that time.
That made McBride offsides, even though he was nowhere near Beas and it wouldn't have made a bit of difference.
quote:Offsides in Soccer
Offsides in soccer is determined when the ball is kicked rather than when the player receives the ball. In order to be offsides, a player must be on their attacking half of the field, be involved in the play, and be closer to the goal line than the ball and any of the opposing team's players. Offsides does not apply on corner kicks, throw ins, and goal kicks. If offsides is called, the opposing team gets a free kick wherever the offsides player was when he was offsides. If the player is level with his last opponent, he is not offsides.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Hmm... so in other words, the rule is the same, it's just the timing (i.e., when they enforce it) that's different? Because they used to just blow the whistle as soon as a player went offside. I am confused. Oh well.
I think Italy can beat the Czech Republic, although I think the Czechs will be playing with a lot more heart next time, what with elimination on the line and all. I don't know if the US can beat Ghana, though. I think we played well against Italy today, but can we actually score? Maybe we can just bounce some balls off Ghana's defenders.
[Edit: Ah, I replied before you put that quote in. Yeah, that's the offside rule as I have always understood it, but he announcers keep talking about how it's been changed. And I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one case this time around where a goal was scored even though an attacking player was offside (but nowhere near the play). Or maybe that was just my imagination. Whatever the case, McBride had to lift up his leg to let the ball go through, and he was quite offside, so that's a shame.]
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-18-2006 00:51
Errr...McBride was NOWHERE near the ball!
What are you talking about?
Beas nailed that ball and it soared into the net - McBride was way forwards, on the far-left side of the net - he was not even remotely part of the play.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
GAH! That was awful, the ref had such a massive influence on the game, and the fouling I guess. The ref wasn't completely out of hand, De Rossi HAD to go and I'd be suprised if he doesn't at least get a 4 game ban, I'd like to see him on a flight home. Mastroeni was foolish to go in like that with this ref and the reffing so far in this WC. His tackle was 50/50 odds, depending on the ref, for a red in a NORMAL game. Pope's sending off was injustice, his first yellow was completely bogus, Gila fouled Pope, they got up off the ground and Pope got the yellow. Idiot.
That said, blah, crippled our ability to make tactical subs and really forced a draw. We had the beating of the Italians but fortune smiled not.
I don't think we can beat Ghana. I would absolutely love it and I expect an hellacious effort but I don't believe we have any advantage I can think of. Ghana showed spirit today, they've shown the ability to play diffrent systems and applying pressure in different areas and their coach seems to get things right. Add to the brains and spirit, they've got size, speed, endurance and quality. Every way I can think of that Arena might line up against them I think they have the squad to nullify, without making a sub.
Thena gain maybe today's performance by Ghana was a fluke and we'll pick them apart
This is WC, anything can happen
edit: we can beat Ghana by imploding them. THey'll fancy their odds now. They'll think they're right to move through. If we can get stuck in and have a ref that's allows a man's game to be played, we could pester and irritate the Ghanains into a frustrated self-destructive mob. Ah well, we have til THursday to figure this out, I'd start a psych press campaign tho
WS: Must have been the angle I saw on the replay. When the shot first went in, I didn't see McBride, but on the replay it looked like he was in front of the ball and moved out of the way so it could go in. That's the image that stuck in my mind. Bad angle for judging, I suppose.
Jason: totally agree about the officiating. As Dan pointed out above, the foul that led to Italy's goal was bogus as well. What a bunch of crap.
And then, somewhere in the second half, the referee suddenly decided to stop calling fouls every minute. It was like he was keeping track and thinking, "Hmm... if I keep this up we're going to have over fifty fouls this match. I'd better stop being such a whimsical prick."
I mean, come on... 37 fouls?! The game wasn't anywhere close to warranting that many. And forget about Pope's red (although I agree that De Rossi had to go--there was no way around that one).
I definitely thought we could take three points from this one... very frustrating. We're going to have to put together some real magic to beat Ghana. Let's pray the imploding strategy works.
ar, missed the offside controversy, it's no controversy, it was offside
McBride could have been deemed to have been in a "passive offside" position but in order for the referee to judge it as passive he would have to be not "interfering with play" and it was arguable that he was interfering just by his position, possibly screening the keeper. For the 30% of refs that would have let it go in that case the little flick or jump that McBride tried hen the ball came to him sealed the deal, there was no way you could argue that he wasn't interfering with play by his position or action in my view.
If he hadn't been in the wrong place at the wrong time it would have been a goal tho, I don't think he altered Buffon's play at all by being there, Buffon just missed it. So it was a moral victory, too bad they don't award points for those!
Side note, was glad to see Beasley a little apsrkier, he was a whipped puppy after the Czech game offering is own head to the media saying he was doubtful to start the Italy game. Arena flatly denied the notion at his post game press conference when asked if Beasley was out against Italy. Then hte reported gave him the quote from Beasley I was glad to see him get back in and make an impact. Much less impact than he had 4 years ago but much better than the Czech game.
Any Ducthmen in here know if Beasley's been playing starting football for PSV since Hiddink left? I assume by his recent form the answer is no but I haven't kept up with the Eredivisie for years now.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-18-2006 02:26
I still have NO idea what you both are talking about! The scenes that I saw, McBride was NOWHERE near Beasley (and was over 30 meters from the ball when it was shot to the goal and went in, despite the efforts of the Italian goalkeeper).
They did examine it many times here in Germany - and they were just as puzzled as I am as to why that was offsides.
*shrugs*
Oh well.
Still, 1 - 1 is respectful (especially considering that we have never beaten Italy - 7 losses and now 3 draws).
We just need to squeek by Ghana. It is going to be hard - they are also highly motivated.
But Italy has shown that they can be beaten.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Yeah, I agree with all the sendings off apart from Pope's, he should not have gone. It is time though that all the teams realised that the refs will not tolerate two footed tackles and "uncontrolled" sliding tackles. I would also like FIFA and the refs to remember that this is a Mans contact game after all.
McBride was offside, even if he did not touch the ball, and I think he did, he was in front of the Italian goalkeeper and affecting play.
The Offside Rule is a bit tricky to get to know, especially if you have not played football. Basically, when attacking, you must be at the same level or in front of the player in defence AS the ball is passed to you.
It's going to tough to get out of that group to the next round but it is still possible.
I'm looking forward to the Australia v Brazil game next. I like the Aussie team and would like to see them go on to the next stage, but I also love Brazil and want them performing their art in the knockout stage too. Great I can support both teams
[edit] Nah WS McBride was right in front of the goalie, not 30 yards away. here is the BBC report on the match, and perhaps the event is covered in the virtual replay on this page
I'll leave that last link in but I'm not too sure that it shows there. This page has lots of links to clips and has a video of the highlights, alough I have not watched the video myself.
Yes, I'm extremely hopeful for the ozzies, I love the way Kewell and Viduka play, they're fairly burly men, esp Viduka, but they are silky smooth. They've got a decent team hat plays a very positive game. And whoooooooo's the manager...? Yup yup, genious, Hiddink. I think they'll make Brasil sweat or get beaten like red-headed step children If they listen to the manager he'll have a plan that will work, but Viduka and Co aren't the passive hardworking Korean side that will execute the boss' plan without questioning it I don't think. Hopefully they see the wisdom of taking the field as a body with only one head! If they do Brasil will have to break them down with some intelligence in addition to their blinding skills and imagination.
edit: Tao, for some reason WS is referring to McBride's proximity to Beasley.
WS: Still not sure what you're talking about. I have no idea how far McBride was from Beasley, but I do know that he was standing right in front of the net and flicked up his leg when the ball went by.
Oh, and just for the record: I understand the offside rule fine. Never had a problem with it before. The only reason I mentioned it is that the Korean announcers keep mentioning that it has been changed. I asked my father-in-law about it, and he said he heard the same thing. Basically, what we heard was this: offside is only called when a player involved in the play is offside. That is, if an offside player is on the other side of the field from the play, then offside might not be called. I say "might" because apparently this is not the way it is done most of the time. But both my father-in-law and I saw the same game where an attacking player was blatantly offside yet not part of the play, so the goal counted. The Korean announcers used the above rationale to explain the situation. It has occurred to me, though, that the refs just blew the call and the Korean announcers made up this explanation--although that sounds unlikely. Then again, a sudden change to the offside rule also seems rather unlikely.
So, someone tell me that everything is the way it has always been and I'll be happy.
Jason: yep, I'm rooting for the Aussies as well. I would love to see them upset Brazil (likelihood of said upset happening aside, of course).
Next up: Korea v. France! Woohoo! Praying for a win here.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-18-2006 11:56
No, you all must be talking abut another scene, then (though I can't imagine which one).
McBride was far, far to the lefthand side of the gaol area (about 10 meters) - nowhere near the goal, really. They viewed it here in Germany multiple times and with the simulated 3D computer animation from the atcual footage.
No offsides.
He was never near the ball that Beas shot, and lifting a leg or not would have made absolutely no difference as McBride was nowhere near the ball, the goal, or Beas for that matter. McBride was also covered by a defender, and was only minimally before that opponent.
Oh well, I am not going to argue the point. I do know that it was discussed more than a few times here, especially after the game. As Germany has the best coverage there is of the games (due to them getting most of the good places to take video footage from as it is their home grounds), I tend to rely on what they are saying.
Anyway, it wasn't counted irregardless, and the games go on!
Japan vs Croatia - this is going to be a very, very interesting match! I am going to go with Japan on this one!
Brazil vs Australia - Brazil will win. The question is, by how much? I suppose that depends somewhat on the Aussies. I would like to see the Aussies score! That would be cool.
France vs S. Korea - this is going to be one HELL of a game, IMHO! I am rooting for the Koreans! Go Go Korea!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Suho, I've heard the same thing about the new offside rules too. Also, a search on Wikipedia reveals this:
quote:A player in an offside position is only committing an offside offence if, "at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team", the player is in the referee's opinion involved in active play by: interfering with play; interfering with an opponent; or gaining an advantage by being in that position.
Determining whether a player is in "active play" can be complex. A player is not committing an offside offence if the player receives the ball directly from a throw-in, goal kick or corner kick.
FIFA World Cup issued new guidelines for interpreting the offside law in 2003 and these were incorporated in law 11 in July 2005. The new wording seeks to more precisely define the three cases as follows:
Interfering with play means playing or touching the ball passed or touched by a teammate.
Interfering with an opponent means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or movements or making a gesture or movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent.
Gaining an advantage by being in an offside position means playing a ball that rebounds to him off a post or crossbar or playing a ball that rebounds to him off an opponent having been in an offside position.
Well there you have it. Thanks, HZR! It's good to know I'm not going crazy. Although I will say that the officials seem to be very selective in enforcing these new guidelines.
WS: Like I said, I only saw it while it was happening (meaning not very well) and then one replay afterward, so it is possible that I didn't get the whole picture. But like you said, it was counted anyway (pisser), and the games do go on. Hopefully so will the US, at least until they face Brazil in the Round of 16 and cremated.
Approximately 7.5 hours before the Korea-France match... maybe I'll get to bed earlier tonight and get more than four hours of sleep.
I have to say, when you wake up at four o'clock in the morning, the days sure do get long. It's only half past eight now and it feels like the middle of the night.
I like getting up at that time myself Suho just to hear the morning chorus, I'm presuming that there is a morning chorus in S Korea too
On to todays matches:
Japan v Croatia - Have played each other twice with a win apiece although the most recent was in the 1998 WC. I am going to go with Croatia in this match but not for any footballing reasons STS, as I have none. I'm just busy writing letters and emails to as many "influential" parties as I can stating my disgust that the Japanese are planning on resuming the slaughter of whales.
Actually I've just heard that we just defeted the bid to resume but only just. Japan defeated in new whaling bid
Back to footie
Brazil v Australia - Played five matches previously, with Brazil winning three to Australia's one with one game drawn. My heart is torn here. Brazil embody all that I love about football while the Aussies have given us Cahill, Kewell, Viduka, "Prisoner Cell Block H" and Skippy.
France v S. Korea - Played twice with France winning on both occasions. last time in 2002 in a friendly. I'm with WS and Suho here. Digging around my HD's for that photo of Suho with the red bandana on supporting SK
Gosh the time..........
[doh]Alt Sig[/doh]
Another great game, there is no shame in that loss. The Aussies did very well in containing Brasil (I'm spelling it with an "s" now) for as long as they did. Poor Ronaldo looks like something is playing on his mind, he only managed to spark once or twice. It was almost like Brasil were playing with ten men for the first half.
Just enough time to get some food before the France SK match in half an hour.
at my folks house in the middle of nowhere for the weekend so i'm only on dial-up, hence the delayed response.
the US match...wow. we showed heart, and despite the ref's best attempts to take us out of the match we hung in. it's also worth noting that the post-game commentary here mentioned that same ref had been suspended in 2002 along with several other officials for "inconsistency" and that he did not referee in the 2002 tournament due to that.
one thing i didn't understand, WHY did we not use our last sub (when the Italians had none) and bring in Eddie Johnson for an obviously exhausted McBride in the last 15 minutes or so?
so we need the win against Ghana...they looked very sharp against the czechs, even a bit brazillian at times as my brother observed. should be a great match, and i have to figure out how to watch it or avoid the score as i'll be at work right after it starts...argh.
good effort from the aussies today, i was pulling for them but their chances just kept missing. Brazil, however, looks beatable, especially on a strong effort from team like Argentina or Spain IMO.
France v Korea about to start, could be a fun one...
Well, our boys are down 1-0 at halftime. I don't think Korea looks too bad, though. The defensive breakdown that led to the Henry goal was unfortunate, but hey, it's Henry--you can't expect the man to be silent forever. And you know that France is really going to be pushing for a win here.
Still, 1-0 is not bad for that much pressure in the first half. Korea has the upper hand in terms of stamina, so if they can stay solid at the start to the second half I think they have a chance to at least pull even. Look for Ahn to come in at some point during the second half. I'd like to see Park Juyong come in as well.
It would have been nice to go into halftime scoreless, but Korea has a history of coming from behind, so this game is far from over.
Other matches...
Didn't see the Australia-Brazil match, so I can't comment, but I was hoping that Australia would be able to pull something out of their hats. Still, with a Japan-Croatia draw, they're not in too bad a position.
for Tao: Red Devils (pics from the 2002 World Cup)
Everyone's up in arms about the remaining sub that wasn't used, Arena says he wanted to leave McBride in because he was playing great defense and didn't want to change anything while it going like they needed it to go. Fair enough I guess.
Halftime with France Korea, too rather lacklustre teams, not living up to either's potential.
Suho.. is it true that the orange tinted kits are a grateful nod to the Dutch/Hiddink?
WS: I don't think Korea are doing that badly, considering. I'm guessing that you haven't seen a lot of Korea matches. Well, Korea is not usually that strong in the first half. It's usually a case of "hold on until the second half and then put something together." Of course, this doesn't always work. I'm hoping they'll be able to pull something off today.
Still, the early goal by Henry was disappointing. Lee saved another certain goal to keep the score close, though, so I'm not too upset at the moment. We Korea fans know to wait until the second half to pass judgment. Let's hope it's a good one!
France scored, this doesn't mean they're anywhere close to "back". Henry MAkalele and THuram are world class, and TRezeguet if DomenICK would put him on... they don't have a great team tho, not sure their coach isn't insane as well
I rather like the idea of the Korean fitness overtaking the french in the 2nd half
pardon the laptop typing skills =\
edit: Suho, I'm sure you're not watching this on ABC but hey keep cutting to the Staples Center where they are showing hte match to the audience of, well apparently, the whole of Korea Town It's like the red devils are everywheres.
edit2: minute 80, 20,000 in he Staples Center go nuts as PArk equalizes! 1-1 w00t! k0r34!
posted 06-17-2006 22:56
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