You are right there J, I over guesstimated (sic), in the end it was a relief to hear the final whistle. I think Sven messed up on the substitutions but we managed to get the right result eventually.
I think I'll sack myself as a football pundit trying to guess the scores.
hows about that SWE/T&T match?!?!? THAT was something!
I have watched WC soccer live on TV for the first time in 12 years, this is awesome. Unfortunately I only have ABC and won't be getting the ARG/Ivory Coast match til probably tomorrow I think I'll look for a stream.
West Ham should grab the T&T right back for Hislop to bring back with him!
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-11-2006 01:58
The Argentina vs Ivory Coast was the best game I have seen so far!
Now THAT is World Cup Soccer! WOW!
Argentina has a rock-solid team! Great offense, great defense, great middle-field...and they don't seem to have any real weaknesses. Of all the teams that have played so far, they are the best that I have seen.
The Ivory Coast is also impressive, but in that group that loss could mean bye-bye for them.
I wasn't really impressed with England, not at all. They need to increase their game immensely.
I didn't see the Sweden vs T&T game.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 06-11-2006 15:26
This is pretty good...and a quick read.
quote:A socialist?s guide to the World Cup. In many countries, soccer is a terrain of political and ideological struggle like the media or the education system.
Good links there NoJive thanks for that. The BBC site seems to have sharpened up its act so I tend to use that mostly now.
I am away for a few days and may not get the chance to use a computer so I would like to wish our Australian, Japanese, American, Czech, Italian and Ghanese inmates who are following the games the best of luck tomorrow
The most enjoyable match for me today was the Mexican win over Iran 3 - 1. One thing that took me by surprise was that no commentator,with two hours of chat to supplement the football commentary, made any puns, stupid or otherwise, about a Mexican wave.
Now it's time for the real games. Tomorrow USA vs Czech should be awesome, then on Tuesday Croatia vs Brazil should be a really good game too. I'll be watching the France game as well.
For my betting tomorrow, I put my money on 2+ Goals in the USA game, and I chose Italy to win. (Gambling makes everything better! Unlike socialism... NoJive :P)
Good luck to all your teams.
...and better luck to mine.
Paraguay is a _hard_ team to look good against, they've always had a terribly stingy defensive mindset. That said, they did make England look like poo I dunno what Sven was doing taking owen out, that changed the whole game for the worse, Crouchino had nothing to do after that.
Most games have been a little boring for me so far, I got caught up in the T&T game, I had Sweden to run all over them by a mile and I was rooting for T&T by minute 60, they did very well, and Sweden sucked a bit. Expected a lot out of the Dutch and didn't get to see it but again, Serbia & Montenegro are tough as nails too.
The best thing about this WC so far is that the tacticians who rely on strong defense are losing to the "flair" teams still. By only one goal but ya, wins a win. We could see some awesome games with later matchups if that trend continues.
I'm sincerely hoping the US can get out of this group, that would be a massive feat. They'll need at least a draw today against the Czechs. As much as we've improved over the years I'm still not comfortable predicting US results, they can be world beaters one day and a lifeless lump the next. I've no doubt th eUS can win against anyone, but I don't think they can do that for a month of games unfortunately
Fantastic win for Australia! Ian, you must be ecstatic after that dramatic come-from-behind performance!
I was rooting for the Aussies as well, for two reasons: 1) they were playing against Japan and 2) Hiddink (who is something of a national hero here in Korea).
That was a totally bogus goal Japan scored early on, and even if I hadn't been rooting for the entire Japanese side to be eaten by crocodiles, it was poetic justice for them to fall apart in the end like that. Great strategy by Mr. H, and great heart by the Aussie side to stay in the game.
Now... fifty minutes 'til the US-Czech match. I'm just praying we don't get slaughtered (and that I can watch the game quietly enough so that I don't wake the wife and get slaughtered myself--the match starts at one in the morning here).
Well that was a depressing half. We are being solidly outplayed by the Czechs. Up until that second goal, I thought we had a chance to pull something off. Reyna's shot off the post at around the 28th minute could have been a turning point had it been a few centimeters to the right. But that was our only real scoring chance for the entire half, and that's just not good enough against a Czech side that threatens to score every time they have the ball on the attack.
Our crosses are completely ineffective, unlike the Czech crosses, each and every one of which is a scoring chance. The gap between the two sdes right now is painfully obvious.
I think it's still possible for the US to pull out of this and maybe draw, but I don't think it's very likely. Something needs to change for the US to have any chance in the second half. Those two Czech goals were works of art. Meanwhile, we look like we're just splashing paint on a canvas at random.
One glimmer of hope: while you never like to see a player carried out of the stadium on a stretcher, I was not sad to see Koller go. But it's the US offense that is going to have to step things up against the Czech defense. Either that or our run might be over just as it's getting started.
Well, Koller is pretty much the Czech offence, so I think the US can get a little more agressive in the second half. Up until now things wern't looking good, so I'd say the American players are due for a good performance.
Good new is only need 1 more goal this half to cover the 2+ over.
3-0. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the worst defeat so far. What an absolutely pathetic performance. It didn't help that we were playing catch-up for nearly the entire game, but that just sucked. We played a bit more aggressively in the second half (with the only real shooting coming from Johnson), but it wasn't nearly enough.
Now we're going to have to beat both Italy and Ghana outright to stand even a chance of making it out of group play--and even then we still might not make it. Things are looking pretty bleak at the moment.
Next up for me... Korea vs. Togo. Unlike the US, Korea starts off with their easiest opponent, so maybe they can build some momentum and pull a rabbit out of the hat. On the other hand, if they lose against Togo, they're pretty much screwed.
THe Czechs look capable don't they?! The US looked completely impotent, early goal killed them from the go. Wussies need to suck it up and leave everything on the field against Italy
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-13-2006 08:22
The US is a pile of crap. Go home.
No offense, no middlefield, no defence.
Seriously, if you can't play the game, stay home. The US demonstrated the worst soccer playing in the WC so far. They deserved to get beat and will soon be packing to go home, and the sooner the better. What a pack of losers.
Why are they even at the WC? To look bad? Well, at least they are doing that well.
Italy will stomp the US into the ground and Ghana will probably beat them as well. Looks like the US will be going home as complete losers.
On a positive note, the Aussies had an amazing finish - wow. At least they realize that one has to score to win.
I am really looking forward to the Brazil vs Croatia game.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: Darwin, NT, Australia Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 06-13-2006 08:25
^ Suho
Yep, it was sure looking grim for a looooong time there; even Hiddink was chewing his nails before that magic moment when Cahill sent the fans maaaaad ; and again then Aloisi just for luck
Slightly o/t; Aloisis's cousin is a really old mate of mine; he'll be pissed (drunk) for weeks now
Poor ol' Japanese just fell to pieces then; too bad the US didn't rally a bit; maybe they need to borrow Guus for a while.... later tho' .... like in a few weeks
Aww, just can't stop
[sense] Organisation is anathema to organisations [/sense]
too bad the US didn't rally a bit; maybe they need to borrow Guus for a while.... later tho' .... like in a few weeks
Hmm... that's not a bad idea. Maybe we can borrow him for the next World Cup.
I'll be honest, I know next to nothing about the US squad. I haven't watched the US play since the last World Cup. They just don't show US matches over here. So I don't know if this is normal or not, but if it is, I'm wondering how they ever managed to climb to 5th in the FIFA rankings.
One of two things will happen in the Italy match. Either 1) The US will pull their act together and play their hearts out against Italy, possibly even winning in the process and keeping our hopes alive or 2) they will collapse like a house of cards in the wind, taking any hope of getting out of group play with them. Obviously I'm hoping for the former, but everything I've seen so far points to the latter. I'm still rooting for the boys to win, but I won't be waking up at four o'clock in the morning to watch the Italy match. Not after what happened last night.
My predictions for our group: Czech Republic first, Italy second. Koller's injury is not as serious as first feared, and although he will likely miss the Ghana match, I have a feeling he'll be back against Italy.
Less than five hours to Korea's date with destiny...
I'm away from home atm, so I haven't got long to post my thoughts. I only managed to get to see the highlights of Australia v Japan and USA v Czech Republic yesterday.
What a great result for the Aussies, Cahill has shown determination like that all season for Everton, so it was really good to see him get really stuck in. Harry Kewell looked like he had a good but relatively quite game, he has been slowly but steadily improving his game here at Liverpool the past year. I think he will only grow in confidence along with the rest of the team now with this great moral boosting win.
Although the USA lost I would not be too hard on them, at least not from what little I saw of the game. Two of the three goals conceded were world class strikes that would have sunk virtually any team in the competition. The USA team looked proficient enough but I think they lacked confidence, plenty of possession not much penetration. It will be hard for them to proceed to the next stage from here but not impossible. The true size of the task will better be understood after todays games.
Let's see what we have lined up for today.
Oooo lovely stuff... S.Korea v Togo:
This is a bit of an unknown for me but I'm going to be looking out for Suho's team and that "skating Ahn" malarchy Jason or Suho mentioned earlier.
France v Switzerland
I should imagine the bookies have France down to win this one but remember the last WC? Actually, I think because France did so badly in the first game last time, they are going to be extra vigilant not to mess up this one. I think kimsons team are going to have to be very tight to get any result here. If the Swiss can stop France from scoring early on this will frustrate the team and the supporters, and France don't play well under that kind of pressure.
Brazil v Croatia
One of the many things I like about watching Brazil is that their style of football will always allow the opposition to come back and score if the talent is there. The play is so open that a good defence can win the game for you. Having said that I am hoping for a footballing feast with Brazil as the starter, main course, and a sweet, sweet finish.
WS: Why the doom and gloom? I'll be the first to admit defeat when it is a foregone conclusion (like, say, if we lose to Italy), but until then, I'll be rooting for our team.
Tao: Yeah, two of those goals were indeed unstoppable, but a goal is not only the final shot--it's everything that leads up to it as well. And the US defense was just not up to the task of fending off the Czech offense (and let's not even talk about the US offense). We needed to step it up and we didn't. If we don't step it up against Italy, WS's predictions of doom and gloom will come true (I suspect they might come true anyway, but there is still hope, however slim).
As for the Korea-Togo match (which will be starting in a few minutes), it's a tough one to call. Obviously I'm rooting for the Korean side, but this is not going to be an easy match. Korea's last friendly was against Ghana, and they lost 2-0. They looked even worse than the US did last night against the Czechs. But they've switched from a four-back formation to a three-back formation, so we'll see if that does any good. The key for Korea tonight is going to be defense, although they're going to need some scoring as well (one area that Korea has always suffered in). They really need a win against Togo if they want to have any chance in this group. A loss pretty much seals their fate, and a draw may only postpone the inevitable.
OK, game time. I'll be back at halftime with my analysis.
Korea looked a bit shaky for the first fifteen minutes and then seemed to settle down and start putting pressure on Togo. As I said, though, defense is the key, and the Korean defense has proven fairly incapable of handling Togo's long passes and speed. Togo hasn't threatened much, but when they do they're dangerous.
In particular, defender Kim Jingyu has shown once again just how mightily he sucks. I have no idea why he is even in there, given how badly he sucks. Why isn't Kim Namil on defense? I don't understand.
The Korean defense is going to have to tighten up in the second half if they want to salvage this match. The Korean offense is just not going to be scoring three or four goals a match, so if they want a win they really need to clamp down tight. The offense is going to need to get on the ball, too. Watching the Korean offense against Togo is somewhat reminiscent of watching the US offense against the Czech Republic--a whole lot of sound and fury, signifying not much of anything. But Togo is no Czech Republic, and I have hope that Korea will score (maybe even twice) in the second half.
Fortunately, Ahn did not start the match today, and I don't expect him to come on in the second half. I'm hoping that Park Juyeong will come on and work some of his playmaking magic. Cho Jaejin is a good striker, and given some good chances I think he can put the ball in the goal.
What am I hoping for? A 2-1 victory at least, of course. If Korea doesn't step things up, though, that's not going to happen. For starters, they can't allow any more goals. If Togo scores again, Korea will most likely lose. If not, well, we'll see what happens.
[Edit: Reading over my "analysis" here, I think I need a new nickname: Mr. Obvious ]
[Edit: OK, Kim Jingyu is out, but Ahn is in. Well, let's see if he can do something with the offense.]
WS you old bandwagonner you, sad thing is you may be right in the end. Suho is right right now however. The manager's called out some players on their performance in public and that's always a risky move. Hopefully we can get past this and rally. You say you dunno much about the US team? They're not a fluke in 2002 and they've had a few runs since when they looked again like world beaters, you show your ignorance or hatred if you count them out at this point. I never like to see a coach airing the harsh trtuth at a press conference tho, that should be left for the locker room. I trust he knows his players beter than I do, if not in the end we'll have his head!
I can't believe Togo is up on S Korea! Do they even have a coach? Pfitzer (sp?) left, have they replaced him? I lost track of that story. I'd like to see the Koreans do well again, they're always a fit and well drilled side if nothing else. GO KOREA
Togo had a due bounced from what I've heard, I have no tv, catching this on a board =\ Looking up for Korea
quote:The only team that can beat Brazil, is Brazil itself.
DAMN! You _are_King_ of the Banwagonners, middle name Mr Safe Bet
I've seen more than one handful of teams in Germany that can beat Brasil on any given day, but yea, if you wanna statistically safe bet go with Brasil. Do you watch this sport or just check the Ladbrokes oddsmakers?
So has Togo's coach returned to the team then? I'm off to look that story up and get back to work... have fun suckas!
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-13-2006 16:55
Go SK!
And Jason...I know more than enough about Fussball, I think. I have been following it solidly for over 13 years now - Der Bundesliga and European soccer.
I know a good team when I see it, and I know crappy playing when I see it.
And what the US showed was extremely bad. They just gave up.
Well, YOU NEVER GIVE UP in the World Championships!
Doesn't mean I hate them, either. I am extremely disappointed, not to say pissed off, with their performance and quitter attitude.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Yeah, Togo's coach returned, perhaps too late for their team to get put back together.
The Togo player was sent off when he fouled (second yellow card) my boy Jisung in front of the penalty area. Then Lee Chunsoo put the free kick in the net. Ahn scored the winning goal in the 72nd minute, again with help from my boy Jisung. I knew he was special when I saw him play in the 2002 World Cup, so I was not surprised when Hiddink snatched him up and then he went over to Man U. He may not score many goals, but he is the backbone of the team.
Anyway, the send off and subsequent goal was the turning point. I have to say, though, while I'm happy that Korea pulled off a victory, I'm a little disappointed that they gave up on scoring another goal so easily. Whatever happened to the best defense being a good offense? Yeah, you always run the risk of getting caught out by Togo's speed on the counterattack, but it's not like Koreas was playing it safe by playing keep away in their own end--they made quite a few misses that almost cost them.
When Advocaat pulled Cho Jaejin and put in defender Kim Sangsik, I screamed, "Are you nuts?!" Putting Kim Sangsik in to strengthen to the defense is like drinking a liter of grain alcohol to sharpen your senses. He's such a liability you'd be better off just playing with ten.
Despite this win, I'm not too optimistic about Korea's chances for the remainder of group play. Togo was probably the easiest opponent of the entire tournament, and Korea barely managed to win. Their defense did not tighten up in the second half. The only reason Togo didn't score again was a combination of luck and the fact that Togo were down a man. Yeah, they caught Adebayoro offsides a few times, but Togo still had some real scoring chances. This does not bode well for when Korea faces more organized teams like Switzerland and France. Korea's only hope right now is a really good game against the Swiss, I think.
Now, back to our local doomsayer...
quote: WebShaman said:
There is a difference between a "prediction of Gloom and Doom" and the acceptance of reality.
Reality? The reality is this: the US played like crap against the Czechs and got beaten like stepchildren (my apologies to any actual stepchildren out here, but this time it fits). That's the only reality we have right now. Everything else is speculation. Speculation based on fairly good evidence, perhaps, but speculation nonetheless. In other words, there is still hope. Honestly, it's not likely at this point that the US is going to make it out of group play. But to just pack it up and go home after one loss, however tragic, is defeatist. When group play is over, then we can talk about reality.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-13-2006 17:20
quote:But to just pack it up and go home after one loss, however tragic, is defeatist. When group play is over, then we can talk about reality.
Unfortunately, I can't just "pack it up and go home" as I am here in Germany. I don't see it as defeatist. The group that the US got is a very tough group. Even if the US plays very well from here on in, it is not likely that they will be able to beat Italy. And that will mean the end.
I was hoping for a draw against Czech and a draw against Italy. That might have been enough to get the US through as second place.
Not going to happen now.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Unfortunately, I can't just "pack it up and go home" as I am here in Germany.
It was a figure of speech, my friend. It's not like I'll be packing up and going home when Korea eventually bows out either.
quote: WebShaman said:
Even if the US plays very well from here on in, it is not likely that they will be able to beat Italy. And that will mean the end.
Exactly. Not likely, but still possible, no? If and when the US loses against Italy, I will be completely prepared to face reality. But not before then.
Ian: if you need more than two Lotto numbers, you might be out of luck.
OK, folks. Enjoy the rest of today's matches. Unfortunately, the wife is not letting me watch the Switzerland-France game (our television is in our bedroom...). Time for bed.
I know it was a figure of speech - but you have to realize that the World Cup is being played here in Germany!
As you can imagine (because you remember how it was from the last one, right Suho?), things are different when they are happening where you are.
Oh, and a big congrats for S. Korea! A win is a win!
Well, yes, I see your point. What I meant by the figure of speech, though, was just a generic "giving up." But I can understand how it must be particularly frustrating for you over there. At least the US isn't in Germany's group, though, huh? That was killer in 2002, when the US had to play Korea. I was so relieved when they drew.
And yes, a win is a win, and Korea definitely needed one.
In other news, I wasn't able to watch the France-Switzerland or Brazil-Croatia matches, but I just took a look at the results... France drew against Switzerland... leaving Korea at the top of the group so far! Sure, their win was against Togo, and both France and Switzerland are probably going to beat Togo as well, but if Korea can pull out another win, they're guaranteed to go through!
Aargh... this is why I was disappointed that Korea didn't push for another goal against Togo. Let's say that, assuming French and Swiss wins against Togo, Korea loses against France and draws against Switzerland (a slightly optimistic scenario, to be perfectly honest). That would mean Korea and Switzerland would be tied for second place in points. What does it come down to after that? Goals! You can bet that Switzerland is not going to be satisfied with a one-goal victory over Togo, and the shaky Korean defense is going to have a hard time fending off the French forwards. Without another win, Korea is pretty much guaranteed not to advance.
Or maybe I'm being pessimistic. After all, France still doesn't seem to be back on track since their derailment last time around (they have scored a finals goal since 1998). Ah, but it all comes down to defense! The Korean defense is like a sieve, and you can bet the Swiss and French forwards are going to capitalize on that far more than the Togo forwards did. I just can't believe that Kim Sangsik and Kim Jingyu (or Lee Ho, for that matter) are the best we can come up with.
Still, gotta keep hope alive. We'll have to see how Korea do against France on the 18th. A crushing defeat would most likely finish them, but a strong outing could put them in a good frame of mind for the final match against Switzerland.
Spain V Ukraine - Ukraine to Win @ 4.33
Tunisia V Saudi Arabia - Tunisia to win @ 1.83
Germany V Poland - Germany to win @ 1.53
As long as Shevchanko plays I really like Ukraine's chances of beating a Spanish team that is famous for shitting the bed in International play.
I'm still disapointed about Croatia. I do think they were the better team today, and with a little more finish, they would have beaten the Brazilians handily.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-14-2006 06:59
Croatia was manhandled by Brazil. Croatia threw just about everything but the kitchen sink (not that it would have helped), and came up short - way short. To give credit where credit is due, Croatia did try their hardest - it just wasn't enough to beat a lazy Brazil. When shooting at the goal, it is wise NOT to shoot the ball directly at the Keeper - not that Croatia had all that many chances. Late in the second half, I thought that maybe Croatia would get one as they put everything into a last, final effort. It came up way short, and that took the rest out of the Croatian team apparently. One could almost see the desperation oozing out of the Croatians at the end.
Brazil just putted around the green, shot a goal, and then went home. Unspectacular but effective - a very unusual tactic for Brazil but I think in this case it threw Croatia so off it's game, that it actually worked.
I personally was pretty much shocked at the laid-back approach that Brazil played (and that is how they played) - but apparently it was how they wanted to play Croatia and it worked. God forbid that Brazil really tries in a game!
Anyway, Brazil is through as Group Winner IMHO. Even a "bad" Brazil is good enough to beat a very determined Croatia!
The France vs Switzerland game was....non-eventful. I think it was perhaps the best thing that S. Korea could have wished for. Both teams were sluggish, dull, and uninspiring. A fustrating, uneventful match. If they both play like that against S. Korea, well, good for S. Korea!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Don't discount the Swiss, France are clearly a more powerfull and experienced team, I think the Swiss did well to keep them at bay. It's a good result for them, and I'm looking forward to the Swiss V Korea game!
Just finished the Brasil Croatia game and have to say Croatia suprised me with their overal quality and lack of finishing. I didn't think much of them before this game but knew the Prso was a fine striker but the game showed opposite, quality everywhere except up front! I agree it was a shame they seemed to go straight at the keeper with every attempt on goal. I'm glad Croatia had Brasil first to give everyone else a tutorial in how to shut them down. Adriano, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Robinho, even Kaka who scored, they were not allowed to be dangerous.
I'm way behind and I think this is the first Cup since 90 that I will miss a game, I'm not going to be able to keep up the pace =(
I hear the Spain Ukraine game is not going so well for the Ukraine. I'ma go check that out
posted 06-10-2006 17:33
I think I'll look for a stream.
The US looked completely impotent, early goal killed them from the go. Wussies need to suck it up and leave everything on the field against Italy
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