From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-18-2006 22:56
WOW!
Despite things, an exciting match.
I am sorry to see Zidane go like that - he is truly one the greats.
Or was, as the case may be.
France will have to defeat Togo without him.
Korea got the goal they desperately needed, but...
Will it be enough? I just can't shake the nagging feeling that Korea could have done better in the first half - and I feel they waited much too long in the second.
A win was in, IMHO.
However, a 1 - 1 is a good result for Korea.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Yes! A draw with France! Oh ye of little faith, have I not told you that the boys in red would wear them out?
Honestly, it was looking pretty bleak for a while there. Korea came out strong in the beginning of the half, but then France went on the attack and I wondered if we'd ever get momentum back. I thought Ahn came in a little late, but it turned out to be pretty good timing. Park Jisung, by the way, has been my fave ever since the last WC, when he scored against Portugal (a goal that ultimately helped keep Portugal out of the Round of 16). You can imagine how psyched I was to see him score the equalizer! Of course, my wife was awake, so the screaming commenced.
Jason: yeah, that was Lee's second critical save. When I saw Henry all alone like that I thought it was going in for sure.
And we don't get ABC over here, but you should see the Seoul city center. 20,000 is peanuts.
WS: I had similar thoughts when Henry first scored. After such a long drought, I was afraid that it would open the dam and let the flood waters loose. But the Korean defense was surprisingly strong (considering how weak they've been in that area lately).
Anyway, great game. No doubt that France is the better team, and they really dominated the midfield, but Korea played with heart and came through in the end.
[Edit:
quote:
Will it be enough? I just can't shake the nagging feeling that Korea could have done better in the first half - and I feel they waited much too long in the second.
A win was in, IMHO.
I'll say it again: Korea is not the strongest of first half teams. No one here was expecting that Korea would score first. I think the hope was that we would hold them scoreless in the first half and then score in the second half. That's how Korea usually win their games--by scoring more in the second half than their opponent does in the first half.
I think we we're very fortunate to get a draw. There was talk before the match of the possibility of Korea beating France, but to be perfectly honest that would have been a major upset. Everything is on the line for France, and they came to play today. Had Lee been a little less diligent in net, we could have been blown out of the water. I don't think Korea played their very best game today, but they played well. Even at their best, I think they would have been hard-pressed to win.
Still, like you said, a draw is a good result. They started a lot stronger than they did against Togo, and I think they've got some confidence now.]
Phew, what a (footballin') day that was Group G still has some surprises to came. From what I've heard so far, Togo may refuse to play Monday unless they get paid, and by paid they mean cash in the bank, see here.
Yeah, they are the pictures I was searching for Suho thanks, I remember them now.
Football huh, it's a funny old game. I've got to get some sleep zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzz
Yeah, I remember hearing that about the Togo side. On the one hand, I can understand wanting to get paid, but on the other hand... well, let's just say that the news was met with dumbfounded stares in Korea, where patriotism runs as thick as kimchi. I honestly believe that the Korean side would play even if they got paid nothing. Even if the government, in some wild fit on insanity, decided not to pay for their traveling expenses, etc., the Korean people would pull together and raise the money for them--and it would probably take only a few hours. To an outsider, Korean solidarity can even be a little frightening. If you think Americans are patriotic, you've obviously never met a Korean.
So, yeah, no Korean I have spoken to has the slightest clue of how to even begin trying to fathom what Togo threaten(ed) to do.
Jason: The orangey kits... I honestly don't know. I thought their kits last time around were decent, but each time they seem to move further and further away from true red, all the way saying "this is redder than the last time." The best I can figure it, they're slowly migrating through the spectrum. Expect them to be yellow about twenty years from now.
Some more thoughts on the Korea-France match (if I may be humored)....
The mood here in Korea before the match was a bit odd. By that I mean people talked about winning, and everyone knew that winning was indeed a possibility, but I don't think anyone really expected to win. At around the 75th minute, the Korean announcer said something to the effect of "Well, we've still got Switzerland ahead of us and are currently at the top of the group, so being behind 1-0 to France isn't that bad for us." I think he meant a number of things. Firstly, considering how much pressure France put on (especially in the midfield) and the almost complete lack of Korean scoring chances, we were lucky to only be down by one. It could have easily beeen two or three to nil by that point. Secondly, even if Korea lost, it didn't mean elimination. Perhaps that's a somewhat defeatist attitude, but Korean fans are used to seeing their side take things down to the wire. Honestly, I'm not sure if the country would have known what to do with itself had they clinched a berth in the Round of 16 after only two games--and all on their own, at that. Korean tournament appearances are always nail-biters.
That's why I was so psyched about the draw (and also because it looked like we were going to lose, and because the goal was scored by my favorite player). Working out possible scenarios is pretty much a national pastime here (considering that it always goes down to the wire), so I decided to work them out for myself. There are three matches left, each with three possible outcomes, but obviously not all of those 27 permutations matter. The following are the ones that matter. NOTE: Skip the following if you do not like maths and long, drawn-out (and mostly pointless) hypothetical discussions.
For starters, if Korea can win against Switzerland, it doesn't matter what happens in the other matches--Korea will finish first in the group.
If Korea draws against Switzerland, though, things get tricky. If France and Switzerland both beat Togo (which is the most likely scenario), we are left with three teams with five points. It will come down to goals, and this is most likely where Korea's relatively poor showing against Togo will come back to haunt them. The first tie-breaker is goal differential, and a draw with Switzerland will leave Korea at +1. France and Switzerland both stand at zero, so it will come down to how they do against Togo. You can bet they're going to be beating the ever-living crap out of the poor Togo side--and not playing keep away for the last fifteen minutes of the match. If there is still a tie it will go down to total goals scored. Basically, Korea would go through if France beat Togo by only one goal and scored no more than one goal more than the number of goals Korea score in their hypothetical draw with Switzerland or if Switzerland score no more than two goals more than this number in their match against Togo. After total goals scored it comes down to head-to-head results, but all three teams will have drawn against each other, so it would go down to drawing lots (which would suck).
But what if Togo win one of their remaining matches? Let's say Togo beat Switzerland tonight. That would put them in second place in the group with three points. If France win against Togo, they would go to five points to tie Korea (remember, we're still talking about the hypothetical draw against Switzerland in the final match). In this scenario, France and Korea would both go through, with the order depending on goal differential. If Togo loses to Switzerland and beats France, then Korea would go through with Switzerland. If Togo beats both Switzerland and France, Korea would go through in second place behind Togo.
Togo draws would also help Korea. A draw against Switzerland would mean the Swiss finish with three draws and be eliminated, and Korea would go through with either Togo or France, depending on the result of the match between those two sides. A Togo draw against France would have pretty much the opposite effect (i.e., Korea would go through with Switzerland).
But do I see any of these rather complex scenarios happening? No, not really. Obviously we'll have a better idea of how things stand after tonight's match between Togo and Switzerland, but if Korea draws against Switzerland their chances of advancing are slim. What if Korea loses to Switzerland? Well, that would leave them with four points and a goal differential of at most zero. Their only hope of going through would be a) Togo beating or drawing with France and losing to Switzerland or b) Togo drawing against both France and Switzerland. If Togo were to lose both matches then Korea would be eliminated, and if they won both matches the fight for second place would come down to Korea and Switzerland, and that could get sticky. But that's a very unlikely scenario, so I'm not even going to entertain that thought until I see tonight's match.
To sum up: Korea need to win against Switzerland. That's really all there is to it. I just hope the boys play their hearts out in that final match.
Anyone else watching the Switzerland-Togo match? That was a pretty exciting first half. The Swiss took the lead with a beautiful goal in the 16th minute, but it's still far from decided. Togo threatened quite a few times, and they looked stronger than I had expected. I'm looking forward to the second half. I think Togo can score if they keep up the pressure. But the Swiss defense is looking very organized and quite solid. It's going to be a close match no matter what happens.
That's a great indepth post you made there Suho I bet the local press would have paid for that analysis
Yes, I have been rather surprised at how well Togo are playing as a team considering the unsettling week they have had. They have had at least one clear cut penalty refused and seem to have the talent to trouble the Swiss defence some more. They do need to strengthen the left side of their defence though, otherwise I can see another goal coming from that direction.
Togo did not live up to the performance in the first half and have now limped out of the competition. So that puts Switzerland on top of the group on goal difference.
It's looking tricky for SK on Friday, 23 June. I'm thinking that France will beat Togo so it's the winners of the Switzerland v South Korea game that will go through with France. For all the other permutations see Suho's post above (3 up)
Well, you called it Tao. The second goal came from that side.
When it comes down to it, Togo had a ton of chances to pull even, but they just could not seal the deal. Yes, the Swiss defense is like a brick wall, but Togo is fast, and they could have--should have--scored. But they didn't, and they wore themselves out in the process, and the Swiss made them pay.
I was rather disappointed to see that second goal go in. If the match had ended 1-0, a draw with Switzerland would have been enough for Korea to go through. Now, though, they would lose out on goal differential. The only way a draw with the Swiss would see them through now would be if France beat Togo by one goal and don't manage to beat Korea in overall goals scored. I just don't see that happening. France know that they have to win against Togo to go through, and I think they'll do it (and by more than one goal).
Now, looking ahead to the Korea-Switzerland match: the Swiss defense is formidable, but they still manage to put together quick offensive strikes. Still, Korea's defense is a lot more solid than Togo's, and Korea also have the stamina to stay with the Swiss to the end. The first goal is going to be very important--I don't think Korea can afford to go down a goal in the first half and then hope to score two in the second. They are going to need to pick up the pace and score first. Playing come-from-behind again could be disastrous.
Anyway, it's midnight, and I've woken up at four in the morning for the past two days, so I'm pretty exhausted. Good night all.
[Edit: Oh, and congratulations to kimson. Very well played match by your boys. Our final meeting is going to be one heck of a showdown.]
The South Korea V Switzerland match is going to be great, both teams iwll be out to prove their worth and won't sit back and relax like the French mistakenly have. Great game, the second goal was amazing!
next up Ukraine, a sentimental favorite for me here in 06, against the Saudis, a team that qualified quite impressively.
4-0 to the Ukraine at the time of this writing. That's a serious beating from a team I expected to see something from. The Saudis in 94 made an impression with the arguable goal of the tournament but man, they've really stunk everything up since. Have a nice flight back to the kingdom.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-19-2006 21:59
Spain vs Tunesian - all I can say is WOWOWOWOW! 0 - 1 for Tunesian in the half!!!
What is happening to soccer?
I think Korea is in serious trouble. I said that Korea should have pressured France in the first half and it is looking more and more like that is going to come back and haunt the Koreans. In any regards, it sure is an exciting group, with everyone except Togo having a chance! I suspect that despite all the difficulties that France has, that they will defeat Togo especially in the state that it is in. That means that it will all come down to the Korea vs Swiss game.
That is going to be one HELL of a game! I hope that Korea pulls it out and takes the group. That would be awesome.
Ukraine vs Saudia Arabia - another WOW! 4 - 0
And the way it is looking for Spain vs Tunesia...if Tunesia does the impossible and wins, then all bets are off!
The World Championship is really, really interesting this time!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
For once in a big competition I think Spain has a chacne this go, I was not worried when I read the 1-0 half score! They're powerful finally. Puyoll is the man and the goal he made the other day is still tops for me in this WC so far. GO TARZAN!
Considering that the Saudis qualified ahead of Korea, you would think they'd be able to put up something of a fight. They looked really strong in qualification...
quote: WebShaman said:
I think Korea is in serious trouble. I said that Korea should have pressured France in the first half and it is looking more and more like that is going to come back and haunt the Koreans. In any regards, it sure is an exciting group, with everyone except Togo having a chance! I suspect that despite all the difficulties that France has, that they will defeat Togo especially in the state that it is in. That means that it will all come down to the Korea vs Swiss game.That is going to be one HELL of a game! I hope that Korea pulls it out and takes the group. That would be awesome.
I'm not sure where you get "serious trouble" from. Maybe that's what it looks like from elsewhere, but here things are going pretty much par for the course. In fact, we're doing better than a lot of people expected, what with the way we were playing friendlies right before the finals started. I was starting to wonder if we'd even manage to win.
Also, and I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say this , but Korea is not a strong first half team. Sure, it would have been nice if the boys had put more pressure on France in the first half and scored a goal, but it was not in the cards. The best result we could have hoped for, I think, would have been 0-0 at the half. The plan would have then been to wear out the French in the second half and score (which is pretty much what happened anyway).
Why are Korea not a strong first half team? For one, they are not very fast. This means they are not going to get a lot of quick chances. They also have a tendency to break down completely on defense at times, which means that the focus in the early game is often on not giving up a goal. The lack of speed in general also plays a factor here, as Korea are not too good at flipping from defense to offense and going on a quick counterattack. Sure, they've got a few fast players, but the inability to transition well means that these players will often be stranded by themselves in the attacking end. Without support, the attack fizzles. Korea have also struggled with finishing power, which just adds to their woes in the first half.
The reason they are stronger in the second half is primarily stamina. They don't get any quicker, but the opposing teams usually get slower. Also, they will usually bring in Ahn or some other star players with finishing power in the second half, and that's when the magic happens. Now I'm not saying that Korea can't score in the first half. They can, and they have. But more often than not they play a more defensive first half and go on the attack in the second half. It's kind of a rope-a-dope technique, actually.
This is why, WS, I can't understand your assessment of the draw with France. With another team, yeah, early pressure would have probably been a good idea. But Korea against France? That's expecting too much. France outclass Korea in terms of skill by a pretty wide margin. The reason Korea can pull out victories or draws against significantly better teams is their stamina and their heart. There is a word we use a lot here: tuji. It means "fighting spirit," and the Koreans have a lot of it. That's why I was far more distressed by the Togo match than the France match. During the match with France, our boys never gave up. But in the last ten or fifteen minutes of the Togo match, they let up on the attack completely and just tried to protect their lead (and almost failing to do so in the process). Where did that fighting spirit go? They could have and should have scored at least one more goal. That lack of a third goal is the reason why Korea can't afford to draw against Switzerland right now. They did the best they could against France on that day, but they fell down against Togo. I was far happier with that draw then I was was with that win.
Another thing: we always knew that it would come down to the match against Switzerland, and we always knew that we would have to win it. It certainly would have been nice to pull off an upset against France, but before the tournament no one even expected a draw. The common logic was: win against Togo, lose to France, and then put everything on the line against the Swiss. Like I said above, it always comes down to the wire here, so no one is either surprised or worried now. The Korean side improved significantly in the second match, and I don't think we're anywhere near being in serious trouble.
That being said, I repeat: we cannot afford to give up an early goal against Switzerland. I won't give up hope if that happens, but it's going to be very difficult to come back against the Swiss defense, especially since we would need at least two goals. I would be satisfied with 0-0 at the half, ecstatic if Korea score first. We haven't yet seen Swiss play from a deficit, so it would be interesting to see what would happen. Of course, even if I do get to watch the match (it's on at 4 am, and my wife and I will be in Japan...), I won't be around to offer my brilliant commentary. Thus the advanced notice of how I will be feeling given certain situations.
kimson: Amen. When it's all over and done with, I plan to root for whoever goes through.
I think it's not so much that the Koreans are not a first half team... I just think they're much more fit than a lot of teams so the other teams are not as much second half teams as Korea
Except Ghana.
Lord love the Ghanains! Watch their second half against a very mobile Czechs squad and tremble at the fitness! They are incredible physically.
If the Suisse wilt in heat like the English the red tide should be set
WS: I didn't say that Korea don't concentrate on the first half, just that they are not usually as strong in the first half (or, as Jason put it, that other teams aren't as strong as Korea in the second half). I want to make this clear: it is not that they are not as solid mentally in the first half, just that it takes some time for them to get clicking on offense against stronger teams (and France is definitely a stronger team). Not concentrating in the first half against Switzerland would indeed be devastating. So I'm hoping they'll be on their game. What I'm mainly hoping for in the first half is no defensive breakdowns, because that seems to plague Korea quite a bit. I'll be interested to see who Advocaat plays on defense. If he puts Kim Sangsik in I will be angry. Not that anyone will care, but I just thought I'd let you know.
As for more pressure in the first half against France, well, I can't argue with that. It would have been great, but France played quite a strong first half. I thought Korea played rather well, all things considered. Like I said before, most commentators here consider Korea lucky to have gotten out with a point, so your optimism and faith in Korea's abilities is heartening. Let's hope they don't let you down.
Re: Ghana - All I can say is that I am glad Togo are not Ghana. And that I am going to be on the edge of my seat for the US-Ghana match. Anyone want to get together for an intense prayer meeting before the first whistle?
Ian: Well, yeah, some of us like to travel a bit. But it's not a matter of going soft, it's a matter of being able to find a television in Japan at four o'clock in the morning. I'll have to do some scouting around if our inn doesn't have TV. Whatever the case, I will be here in spirit, if not in body (well, you know, my typing fingers).
GO GHANA GO.....but am afraid some of their players wont be playing coz they already have two yellow cards ...but still...reflecting on how they played the last match...hmmm..i can confidently say playing the USA will be a WALK in the PARK
It's crunch time for group A and B today with two potentially cracking games that will decide who plays whom in the next round. (Winners of group A play the runners up of group B. Winners of group B play the runners up of group A. Just in case anyone out there was unsure)
The media is, and has been for the past few weeks, in a speculation frenzy over this. Would it be better for us (England) to play the host nation and all that that entails, or Ecuador? England have a slight advantage in the speculation stakes here as we play Sweden five hours after Germany play Ecuador.
Personally, I would like England to win the group.
I don't have a TV so I have not had to endure the (seemingly) endless hours of debate about broken metatarsals, striker confidence, diamond formations and flat pack fours, oops sorry, thats the furniture Don't get me wrong, I love a good old discussion on tactics and player selection but the British press remind me of packs of vultures and hyenas fighting for any scrap and hype hype hype.....STOP.
(Phew, nearly went into rant mode then, I despise 99.99% of all TV and press media). happy thoughts and a deep breath
Where was I? Oh yes, Thinking of the next round, England have three playes on a yellow card (Crouch, Gerrard and Lampard) who may miss the next game if they get another yellow in this match. Keeping that in mind I think Gerrard and Crouch may be rested, with Carrick and Rooney stepping up. Rooney is a phenomenal player who needs to get himself match fit uber quick if we are to progress much further.
I've got a comfy armchair next to a big TV booked for both games today so I'm just doing all my jobs and chores so I'm not distracted from the beautifull game.
Some Musings
It really tickled my funny bone the other day while watching the Brasil v Australia match with all the exotic names in the Brazilian side like Ronaldino, Ronaldo and the like, that the scorer of the second goal was called FRED
Do you have any thoughts on who may be the top goal scorer in the competition as well as what team will win? At the moment these are the top ten:
Fernando Torres - Spain = 3
Omar Bravo - Mexico = 2
Tim Cahill - Australia = 2
Hernan Crespo - Argentina = 2
Agustin Delgado - Ecuador = 2
Miroslav Klose - Germany = 2
Rodriguez Maxi - Argentina = 2
Tomas Rosicky - Czech Republic = 2
Carlos Tenorio - Ecuador = 2
David Villa - Spain = 2
With Argentina looking like they are competition favorites I think Crespo may be the best bet, but I am hoping that Rooney and Owen get their form back and claim joint top scorers. Yes I can dream like a chump err I mean Champ
[doh] fixing spellingks after near media rant[./doh]
Not long to go now, the teams have been named, the stadium is full. It would be great to finish top of the group, but more than that I hope it is a great game.
I'd like to wish all our Swedish inmates Lycka till
Klose is frighteningly good. I only saw the first half of the match (which thankfully had both of Klose's goals), but Germany completely dominated a strong Ecuadorian side. Looks like they decided it was time to kick it up a notch. If they continue playing like that, I would say that they are definitely in the running.
The teams I think have a chance to go all the way at this point (in alphabetical order): Argentina, Brazil, Germany, and Spain.
I missed the England-Sweden match, but judging from the highlights it looks like it was an exciting contest. I think England did well to avoid Germany in the Round of 16, but Ecuador will be no pushover.
One more day (and change) until the US-Ghana match...
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-21-2006 06:40
I agree Suho, it is looking more and more like Argentina, Brazil, Germany, and Spain.
England vs Sweden was an exciting match to watch, but performance-wise, it was a disaster for both sides!
England has lost a very valuable player - man, that must have hurt! And although they played very well in the 1st half, the second half was a shambles! Sweden was just the opposite, having a very lackluster and sluggish 1st half, only to come back and totally dominate in the second!
Both sides could have easily won, if they had done better in the other halves. Sweden missed some goals (and WOW, were they near-misses!), and just when the pressure was getting unbearable, just...let up. Every time.
Pretty strange.
Well, things are definitely shaping up! Looking forwards to the next couple of games!
Hmmm...examining the expected quarterfinals puts Germany and Argentina on collision course!
THAT is going to be a great game!
And it is looking more and more like Brazil vs Spain
We may have a South American Final! Woooohooooo!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Yup. There are some interesting matches coming up. I just hope I can catch them while I'm traveling. I have a feeling I'm goign to miss a number of them.
Guess I'd better figure out how to use that BitTorrent thingy...
Even with England finishing top of Group B, I don't have a lot of hope for them progressing much further STS. Michael Owens horrible injury was a shock, watching his knee pop out like that in super SloMo made me wince, did you see it at all? I agree with your assessment of the match WS. If only we could clone a couple more Stevie G's. the team would be unstoppable.
Sweden are a good side, but if we had problems containing their attack, we will have no chance against a more proficient side.
Portugal v Mexico playing soon, I'm thinking that Portugal shoud win this one they have the class should they decide to shine. The big game tonight should be really good Holland v Argentina, looking forward to seeing how both teams finish the group.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 06-21-2006 15:38
Oh, that is terrible Suho!
I feel for ya, buddy!
The Argentina vs Holland is going to be PUUUUUUUUUREE Gold to watch!!! Can Argentina improve on their already staggering game? Or will Holland pull an "orange wig" on them? I can hardly wait!
I am going to say that Mexico is going to defeat Portugal. Portugal has the ability to beat Mexico, but the way that Portugal is playing...Mexico could pull off the win!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Is Michael Owen the unluckiest player in the world? He should have never left Liverpool! I think his goals for Newcastle have cost over 2mil pounds each. His situation is heartbreaking. Get well soon Michael
From: Darwin, NT, Australia Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 06-21-2006 23:41
Suho, if you're considering BitTorrent, you may find this helpful; it has handy compilation of most of the versions available, with a summary of pros and cons of same.
We all feel for ya, what a time to be away from a TV. I'm sure there'll be plenty in Japan, unless you're going on a monastic retreat, but there's no substitute for ya own TV and couch ta nap on
posted 06-18-2006 22:56
!
But it's not a matter of going soft, it's a matter of being able to find a television in Japan at four o'clock in the morning. I'll have to do some scouting around if our inn doesn't have TV. Whatever the case, I will be here in spirit, if not in body (well, you know, my typing fingers).
...but still...reflecting on how they played the last match...hmmm..i can confidently say 
