I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but I ran across this today, and thought of you guys: FootieFox - Soccer scores for today's matches of many European leagues - live and almost instantly.
...well, I'll keep silly pictures out of the forum,
no profanity, just enjoying ~deserved victory.
How does it feel? Like when obi-wan beat anakin gone mad
Seriously, 4 world cups won, does it tell you something? And still, people argue.
Some always will.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 07-10-2006 00:20
I think that the Italians will be attempting to "justify" the win any way that they can - since it was not won on merit alone. That will hurt more than anything else, I should think.
That is why I hate Penalty Goal shootouts - they just do not represent the better team.
*shrug*
Still, a win is a win.
So enjoy it, Italy for what it is worth.
I wouldn't, even if it had been the US that had won. Undecided matches and Penalty Goals are inane IMHO.
But that is Soccer.
I will be in the US next year, so I will not really care anymore about Soccer. It was interesting while it lasted. Like Cricket, Rugby, Australian Footy, and Formula One racing.
I can't wait to get back into Baseball, Basketball, and American Football! No undecideds or Penalty Shootouts there!
And _Mauro, the facts speak for themselves. Ball possession, best Goal chances, etc decidedly give France the better game. They played better than Italy did. That much must be obvious, even to you.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Poor old ZZ blew his top good style. I too would like to know just why he did this, what was said? So too, would millions of others. Whatever was said, his actions were inexcusable, I still feel sorry for him though.
While this was not one of the great WC finals I did not think it was all that bad. Both sides cancelled out the other for a large part. There were chances for both teams to take the lead, and each team held the ascendency for larger parts of the match.
I think one of the disappointments of this WC final mirrored a general disappointment with the whole WC competition this year. The "big teams" did not perform as well as expected, and the "star" players in general, did not perform as well as they have for their club sides. That being said, I don't think any player, or team, can live up to the expectation that the media generate. The more financial investment in a player, club or competition there is, the greater the media spin and hype there is to generate more cash for the investors... (I spit in their direction)
L'Italia fatta pozzo, miséricordes France
Also, Italy winning on penalties? Who could have guessed that a few weeks ago.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 07-10-2006 01:14
quote:While this was not one of the great WC finals I did not think it was all that bad. Both sides cancelled out the other for a large part. There were chances for both teams to take the lead, and each team held the ascendency for larger parts of the match.
No, Italy held the 1st half. After that, it was mostly France.
From ball possession, to the amount of time spent in the opponent's side of the field, France dominated for the next 75 minutes after the first half (the second half and the two extended times).
But they did not score a goal in that time (obviously ).
As for Zidane...well, that was a rather spotty way to hang up a career. Whatever could have gotten into him?
Whatever.
It is over, Italy won.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: Darwin, NT, Australia Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 07-10-2006 01:39
Zizou is prone to that sort of behaviour, but what a time and place to let it get the better of you
Still, like ya said WS...... it's over...
I think it bodes well for Australian soccer that they held out against Italy until that fatefull moment.....the ghost of which will haunt soccer loving Aussies until the result is reversed
Least now we can start gettin' some sleep....... wonder how poor ol' Suho went finding a venue in Japan ta watch the match........
quote:While this was not one of the great WC finals I did not think it was all that bad. Both sides cancelled out the other for a large part. There were chances for both teams to take the lead, and each team held the ascendency for larger parts of the match.
I should have said large not larger I agree that Italy had the upper hand in the first half and France generally had it in the rest of the game.
This is the bit I really don't like. The realisation that I will have to wait till the year 2010 till the next World Cup Hopefully England will have a lot of time to practice penalty taking and getting a new manager to settle in and get a real team spirit going during that time. Fortunately, I support a world class club team (Liverpool FC) so wont be starved of international football for long.
I forgot to say thanks earlier to DL-44 for that FootieFox link I have not installed it yet, but it looks like it will be useful in the next season, slainte.
Happiness. That was riveting. That was an absolutely fantastic final. After 45 the Azzuri were showing they'd played 120 minutes recently but true to form their spirit, tactics, determination, everything just came together to make it happen. The french couldn't take it.
This is exactly what Italy needed right now with falling attendance in Serie A and the scandal crap going on. I hope justice prevails if proof is there, I think Juve is sunk but hopefully they don't crucify the sides on the periphery of this stuff just to look tough, the evidence agains Milan is not there from what I've been able to find.
I hope Zidane is not remembered for the dark things he's done in his career, I'm certain he won't. He's an absolutely magical player, he'lltake his place alongside the greats of days gone by, and he deserves it.
If anyone deserves a headbutt it's Materazzi Guy's a complete thug. I know he gave Zidane a nice little titty twister nipple tweak which ZZ walked away from, I'm sure whatever he said was deserving. Anyone that knows football knows to go at ZZ like this.
Grosso's price has gone so so up over the course of this last month (yes, a month, 7 games, think of that before you slag a WC winner) he was absolutely fantastic.
Cannavaro has no equal at the moment.
Gattuso is a man noone wants to play against.
great great stuff, the headbutt was jsut drama icing on my cake today. Thank you Zizou, that you ITaly!
I rushed out to a game myself 15 minutes after the medal ceremony/presentation and I got 4 goals I don't wanna go to sleep, wonderful day
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 07-10-2006 08:44
quote:After 45 the Azzuri were showing they'd played 120 minutes recently but true to form their spirit, tactics, determination, everything just came together to make it happen.
Errrr...not in the game that the rest of the world saw.
After the first half, we saw a beaten, tired, desperate Italy doing eveything that they could to stave off the game winning goal from France.
The true hero of Italy was the Keeper, rescuing Italy twice (Once from Ribbery, once from Zidane). He held well, very well (especially the header from Zidane...wow!).
But not in the Penalty shootout. He didn't hold at all. In fact, both Keepers were totally ineffective in the shootout (which is also a very unusual thing in and of itself!).
About the strangest, and perhaps saddest thing concerning the match : France literally gave Italy the win. Mistakes on the side of France secured the win for Italy.
And that is why I say the win is at best tarnished.
It is sad to see a WC Final won like that.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
I see Zinedine Zidane won the Golden Ball award for the World Cup's best player. I think the poll was taken before the infamous headbutt, but as far as I can see the result still stands.
Errrr...not in the game that the rest of the world saw.
who won the game? who won the tournament? Give credit where it's due, you don't luck into that or have it gifted to you by one team of 32 in the final game. Ask the teams of Brasil, Argentina, Germany, Spain, the Netherlands, Ghana, the US and 25 other countries that participated if Italy's fourth World Cup is tarnished.
I've bitten my tongue so many times in this thread webshaman. It's been hard to put up with your inept ramblings, but now that it's over and you wanna personally rain on my parade I'm not feeling like biting my tongue any longer. Your runnning commentary has made me laugh heartily. You clearly don't play, you're clearly not a fan, you clearly know not much about the sport, you've just graced us with 8 pages of dumbass. Why? In the end you say bah soccer to boot. It pains me to be so direct and cruel but I gotta lay the foundation, STFU just sounds temperamental.
You've shown no class whatsoever with that last post man. Four years people wait to watch a World Cup. A lifetime to watch your team win one. A lifetime playing and knowing what it takes, the real struggle and sacrififce you make to win a tournament like that. Then some knucklehead that clearly knows not a damn thing about the game comes and blows.
From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain Insane since: Dec 2000
posted 07-10-2006 21:11
rumorville
'According to several very well informed sources from the world of football, it would seem that the Italian player Marco Materazzi called Zinedine Zidane a 'dirty terrorist',' SOS Racism said in a statement.
IMHO .. being that I played soccer for over 15+ years and once played semi-pro soccer .. ZZ went out the best way possible .. the senerio .. ZZ isn't kicked doesn't do what he did and Italy still wins in PK .. would you as a player want your career to end in PKs! I KNOW I WOULDN'T .. every player I've ever known doesn't like games ending in PKs and I sure as hell don't .. so ZZ just went out the way he wanted to .. with controversy and style(headbutt to the chest, making a player look silly) .. I know I was laughing my ass off after a few of the replays the force and posture that ZZ put into that "header" against that player was simply amazing .. from this day forward that player will be the answer to a trivia question in from board game years from now or next year .. I give ZZ the "Biggest Balls" award! of any player I have ever watched!
ZZ enjoy retirement and thanks for the laugh! I've always wanted to do that to a player or two in my day .. kudos to you
On the topic of penalty shoot-outs, what would those people who dislike them have as an alternative? I'm not a great lover of them myself both as an ex player and a current supporter I would prefer to settle the game in normal or extra time. That said it does bring an extra dimension to the game which is very exciting. I have watched cup games where after extra time the game is stopped and another date is set for a replay, usually after a week. Somehow these games seem rather lacklustre to players and fans alike.
As it stands especially for the World Cup I think penalties AET (after extra time) is the better of the alternatives we have.
Waddia think?
rumorville'According to several very well informed sources from the world of football, it would seem that the Italian player Marco Materazzi called Zinedine Zidane a 'dirty terrorist','
there's been 4 different reports of what he's said that I've heard and none of them have come from Zidane or Materazzi so exactly that, rumors. Zidane himself refused to repeat wha he said to his agent saying only that it was a very bad thing he said. Two of the four reports that conflict each other are from paid lip readers, and completely different.
quote: Tao said:
Clarification please.
I wsn't sure what that meant either but I was fairly certain my response was appropriate
TAO: I'm not a fan of football, to say the least, but I think penalties do suck. In case of a draw after prolongations, the goal average of the teams should be used to pick the winner, and if that's not enough the time spent in the opposite side, ... well something that represents more the quality of the team.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 07-11-2006 08:28
Ok JKMabry.
You wanna go there?
First of all, I have played soccer. Over 6 years, to be blunt. But no, I do not play any more. My daughter does (she is on a local team here) and so does the son of my brother-in-law (he is a coach for the little ones here in Germany). So yes, I have a very good "grasp" of the game. I just do not enjoy it as much as you seem to, and I do prefer Baseball (played for 9 years, still play softball), Football (played for 6 years), and Basketball (played for over 25 years, and still play it when I get the chance).
Now, pull your head out of your behind, JK.
You know, pull on those rabbit ears of yours. When you hear the popping noise, you will know that is your head finally dislodging itself. And after the verbal diarrhea you have spat out, I am sure a breath of fresh air will do you good.
First of all, I never said that Italy did not deserve to be in the Final.
*looks through all the posts*
Nope, not once. Where you got that idea, is beyond me. Once again, a real nice bit of vocal vomit from you.
What I said is that they did not play as well as France did.
Second, the statistics back up my words...you have nothing to back up yours except for the end result - and I said as much.
Third, just about every "expert" that I have been able to find and read is saying the same along the lines I have - except for those who are Italian fans, of course.
Fourth, it doesn't matter what my personal tastes are/are not.
So, now that I have cleaned the dirt out of your ears, you are free, to stick your head back in your hole.
As for appropriate, right
Get a life.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: Darwin, NT, Australia Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 07-11-2006 09:03
On the topic of getting a result in a final; I'm a supporter of the "play on until one side scores" group.
I reckon that'd sort the men out from the boys.....back to back, ten minutes each way, and the first team to score wins
There seems to be almost universal contempt for the PK method of arriving at a result, and a replay is sort of an anticlimax..... as Tao mentioned, they always seem a bit flat.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 07-11-2006 10:49
I agree, Ian.
I do understand the reason(s) behind the Penalty shootout after extended times. One has to remember that all those players on the national teams are also players for some FC. They have, more or less, hefty contracts to fulfill there, and are "granted" the honor, so to speak, of playing for the national team.
But one doesn't want the player to become injured during WC play. Pushing the time after extended play (which is dangerous enough) to making the players play until a goal falls, does endanger the players health.
Thus, I would only suggest this system for either the final 4 games, or just the final.
Undecided is only really feasible and workable for the group playoffs (where points decide who goes on, and who does not). In the elimination rounds, one obviously cannot have an Undecided. This is where the problem with Soccer comes in (undecided).
There have been various attempts to "solve" this problem (Golden Goal, Penalty Shootoff, etc).
But having a Penalty Shootoff decide the final is really lame. Especially when the team that wins, has played worse than the team that lost.
Luck does play a role in Soccer. Any of the greats in Soccer will tell one that (and do). It is entirely possible for a team to play horribly, and win. There are examples enough of it.
It is just unpleasant when it happens.
As for the WC, where the world watches, we of course want to see the best that Soccer has to offer. And normally the Final Game provides it.
There have only been three instances of a Penalty Shootout for the Final (that I am aware of, anyway). The result of all three are somewhat tarnished, and do not really fulfill the promise which the Final is supposed to produce - the [b]UNDISPUTED[b] World Champion.
It is like watching a Heavy Weight bout for the title, and one wins on "points", barely squeeking through.
And to address JK - I find your vulgarity to be out of place and below you. I normally hold you in higher esteem. Your rather banal remarks and personal attacks on my character have managed to change my view and opinion of you to the negative. If that was your goal, then you succeeded nicely. I however am not Zidane and will not headbutt you for your poor sportsmanship and dirty mouth.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: Darwin, NT, Australia Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 07-11-2006 10:58
Just to clarify; I'm only advocating a "play on until one side scores" method to decide a tied final.
I think that, cruel as it is, PK is satisfactory as a means of deciding semi finals..... luck has a lot to do with it....that's life in general..... but four years bragging rights.....that's serious stuff
BTW That's a very valid point you make re contractural obligations etc.....damned money..... makes the world go 'round I suppose........not that most players at that level are short of money. I reckon if ya can't take a chance on losin' a few million whatevers if you're injured, ya maybe don't belong in a World Cup final playing for your country.
Sorry not much time for a proper reply just now, I've got to go talk to some people in suits about ticking the right boxes. Tick box mentality, for little tick box minds, but enough of my woes, I shall desist.
Here is a little game that might help to decide wether you like penalties or not I've only played it a little bit myself but I am naturally the World Champion already Penalty Shoot Out
In England we tried to have replays to decide the FA Cup Final a few years back but that proved to be unpopular with the fans who found the cost in £'s of the whole replay malarchy to be prohibative, tickets travel, time off work ect. I seem to remember the clubs and the sponsors rather liked it for some of the same reason£s.
Moon Shadow and poi:
I too, really disliked "players falling on the ground for no reason, simulating injuries, insulting and beating each other." That aspect has crept into the game slowly over time but is not an integral part of the game. Marauding "fans" running rampage through the streets has been seen to tarnish football too. They are NOT football fans, they are just idiotic criminals latching on to the game as an excuse.
No I do not enjoy that sort of show, but there is not a "total lack of fair-play", as you say. There are the majority of players who do play fair and well who sometimes are overlooked by the hysterics of the media.
I agree that cheating has to be eradicated wherever and whenever it is found in football.
In a war torn world full of greed and hate it is rather idealistic to expect two teams of paragons to be the norm. I would love it to be so but it is not going to happen in our lifetime i'm sorry to say.
I'd prefer the old (original?) method of deciding matches, the replay. That's very unlikely I'd think in this day and age where the global football calendar is sI'd prefer the old (original?) method of deciding matches, the replay. That's very unlikely I'd think in this day and age where the global football calendar is so packed down to the day. It'd be difficult for all the travellers with finals tickets to go home if their ticket was good for any replay, not to mention the profit factor of putting on 2 big shows at the price of one. Like them or not, and noone really does for deciding a final, it IS the accepted method and will likely continue to be. It's accepted, fair and it's part of the game, penalties in no way favor one side over another and it's known to both teams. It's simply a part of the game if it comes to that, like the kick off or a corner kick.
Replays would be great for the 1 billion atching on tv tho
WS: Your opinion of me honestly doesn't matter to me. Conversely I was wrong to defame you personally in public. I'm ashamed of my reply to you earlier when reading back through it. While it was honest and automatic, it sounds a bit calculated and crass. I assure you it's not crass, words speak, it's the meaning that you should take in, not the "dirty mouth". I concede the senitment was hurtful and for that I apologize, I could have possibly conveyed my displaesure without being so hurtful, which may have even resulted in you hearing me better. You don't make a whole lot of sense in your last two posts directed at me, but you are clearly miffed and don't get my meaning either. If you understood my words and believed them to be my honest feelings instead of just hurtful remarks (again, my fault) you would realize that I've restrained my self in accordance with my very well tuned sense of sportsmanship and kind regard. I supppose that's an illustration that holding things in can definitely cause a bit of an uncontrolled vent then ;]
We all see things from diverging points of view and that I can civilly and happily live with (and did for 8 pages). When someone comes in to address me personally in the midst of jubilation and piss on the fire of celebration ("Errrr...not in the game that the rest of the world saw..."), that's the very pinnacle of poor sportsmanship and I find that very difficult to tolerate.
In summary,you've shown a lack of class and sportsmanship Mr Materazzi, but I am compelled to apolgize for the headbutt, it was the heat of the moment.
I was cheering for France (actually, cheering against Italy) aswell. Italy winning always brings out all the fake soccer fans who just want to party because there grandfather's gardner once slept with an Italian man, and that makes them 1/13 Italian, and therefor huge soccer fans even though they've never watched a single game in their life...
But Italy won, that makes them the better team in my books. Unfortunate, but that's how it goes, you need to win to be the champions. If games were decided on stupid statistics there would be no point in playing them, we would just hand out an award every 4 years to the best team on paper.
As for Zidane: Congrats on retirement! *Still* my favorite player of all time.
^^ this no longer abt soccer...i guess this normal since the WC is over and
guys have nothing to discuss or bash....
quote: WebShaman said:
It was interesting while it lasted. Like Cricket, Rugby, Australian Footy, and Formula One racing.I can't wait to get back into Baseball, Basketball, and American Football! No undecideds or Penalty Shootouts there!
JKMabry:- To say the truth i was also shocked wen i read the above quote...i couldnt blv that someone..who was discussing the WC...for the last one month could say something like this....
or was WebShaman trying to pull ... a "ZIZZU" move..
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 07-12-2006 11:29
Oh, I was not kidding!
I do enjoy Baseball, Basketball and American Football much more than Soccer.
It is just that it is very hard to follow those sports here in Germany. And other than going to see a game of American Football played here in Germany (they do have a league), I don't have options to see professional games here.
But that will be changing next year!
Yeeeeaaaahhhh!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
posted 07-09-2006 18:38
Italy on penalty shootout
::cell::
Good game, thx....just what I need....another way to waste time 