Poor Jade. Unsatisfied with her own life, she must try her hardest to live others' for them.
You have every right to think any one of my actions is immoral, Jade, but as long as it doesn't affect you, you do not have the right to tell me I can't do it.
From: Out on the Sea of Madness... Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 10-03-2006 20:21
quote: jade said:
Can we compare the relationship of a love of two of the opposite sex with the love of two same sex as genuine love. One achieves the means to an end and the other does not achieve anything. One in the theological view is for the procreation and fulfillment for the human race , the other is just a present counterfeit to deflect what is real truth. And is never satisfied.
So wait, you are implying that any sex that does not result in a pregnancy is wrong? As DL-44 asked, haven't you ever had sex just for the pleasure? And if not, if every instance of copulation has resulted in a child, then I feel very sorry for you. Because it is an expression of love between two people. And what about couples that either cannot have children or choose to not have children? Are you going to say they are committing a sin everytime they make love because the sperm goes to "waste"?
quote: jade said:
For instance, lets use Rosie O Donnell and her partner..They set up house and have 3 or 4 kiddos. Rosie married this woman in a civil ceremony and they all play house like a real family. Rosie plays the male stronger dominate figurehead who brings home most of the bacon and the woman plays the wife who is of the more feminine and takes nurturing care of the kiddos. Is anything wrong with this family? Will the children have a male/female partnership role model relationship to guide them thru life. Because children learn from their parents important lessons on how to communicate as a loving wife or husband from their parents...father/mother nurturing is very important in the growing years of a child. Many emulate the kind of family they grew up in. Can Rosie father her son like a real male father can? NO. Can she show him what it means to be a real father in every sense of the word in thought and action .Definitely Not. If their children attend public school, most of their school friends will have male fathers...Will their children feel deprived of a natural father....YES most definitely. Most or all children want and daddy and a momma..But life is not always fair and we cannot always have the ideal. But to have a unnatural union instead of a normal healthy union is far worse and sends very wrong signals. If they choose this way of life why are they not content to just live. They will in the end reap what they have sown. So to try to get laws passed so we can recognize this kind of unnatural union as a natural family her in the USof A is wrong and we don't have to accept it. We can enact laws to fight against it for the common moral good of all people.
Personally, I'd like know what reality jade is part of, since it's not the one where the divorce rate is +50% and single parent families are probably far more common than the "traditional" two parent household is. Not to mention that kids are infinitely flexible, very adaptable and while they can be extremely literal, they can also show a much deeper understanding of some things than one might believe. What Rosie & spouse will be showing to their kids is that they are loved and that their parents love each other. Life isn't all happiness and light.
Jade, according to you, growing up in a "natural family" of two parents, one male and one female, implies that the kids will grow up just as "normal" as their parents. How then do you explain the existance of homosexuals at all? How do you explain all the successful, happy, well-adjusted people who did not grow up having a father and a mother?
Oh, and another thought. Since you seem to like using the OT for your arguments, I have a question about what it's like to be part of a plural marriage (polygyny) and considered your husband's property. Is it hard to have to share him with other women on a regular basis? Just wondering is all, since men having multiple wives (and having children by their servants as well - do you have a maid?) is acceptable and common practice in the OT as well.
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 10-03-2006 20:35
quote:We can enact laws to fight against it for the common moral good of all people.
Yup.... just like they do in Iran. Mullah Bush has a bit of a ring to it don't ya think?
Good thinking Jade. Almost as good as that pope of yours...who, in a matter of what a year??? manages to wipe out any inter-faith diplomacy your previous leader managed to engender. That current boy of yours is an absolute dolt. And an old dolt at that.
Catholics should have a law disbarring old farts from wearing the funny hat. Old farts in the big chair are only interested in speeding up 'the end times' because they know their time is pretty much up and how cool it would be if it all came to a thundering end while they were twiddling the big rosary.
Put an alterboy in charge and switch them out when they reach the age of 25. Put somebody in charge who wants to live for a while, someone who can still get an erection...and then you can start talking seriously about a second coming.
___________________________________________________________________________
The goal in Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "holy moly what a ride!"
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 10-03-2006 20:50
Wow Jade...just wow.
Your seperation from reality has reached new heights.
Man's history is full of examples of other types of family models as the one you seem to attach so much importance to. Again, I would ask you to broaden your knowledge before you attempt to tackle things obviously beyond your current understanding.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Jade - I'm just curious here... You keep talking about laws against gay marriage because of its "immorality". Where on the scale immoral acts do you place it? Is it as bad as murder? Stealing the life savings of a senior? Raping a 12 year old girl? Executing innocent school children? Kidnapping?
Or is it more along the lines of exchanging sexual emails with minors while maintaining a front of a law-abiding (and <gasp> a law-making) citizen?
What is morality to you, Jade? Is it simply ideas that have been put forth to you in the Bible and Catechism, preached to you by your clergy? Or does it actually mean something? I consider an immoral act to be flagrant disregard of one's personal liberties - acts of violence, theft - behaviors that cause harm to one's immediate well being and done without willful permission or consent.
From: Out on the Sea of Madness... Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 10-05-2006 02:12
quote: Suho1004 said:
How many times am I going to have to derail this thread? I just want to know in advance so I can start planning.
As long as you kep derailing it with thoughts of rich, creamy, heavenly tasting Nutella, then as many times as you like. In fact, you can derail the derails with Nutella.
And while we're on the subject, has anyone heard of something called NuCrema? My friend here in Korea went to the imported foods section of his local store, looking for the good stuff, and he found this instead. The lady there told him that "people say it's the same." Well, my friend has told me that it is most definitely not the same. I'm not too worried about my friend (I've already had him excommunicated from the Church of Nutella and there's a hitman waiting for him when he gets home), but the idea that there is an imposter out there trying to deceive the innocents dismays me to no end.
quote:Poor Jade. Unsatisfied with her own life, she must try her hardest to live others' for them. You have every right to think any one of my actions is immoral, Jade, but as long as it doesn't affect you, you do not have the right to tell me I can't do it.
As DL-44 asked, haven't you ever had sex just for the pleasure?
I don't feel poor and I am lacking in some areas and have my shortcomings but for the most part I am happy. I feel quite rich with life at present. No I won't stick it in anyone's face that they are living immoral..unless they ask me and I would explain in a loving way to seek confidence in God and he would want them to achieve a beautiful
destiny by living in the ways of the Lord.
quote:So wait, you are implying that any sex that does not result in a pregnancy is wrong?
No. I did not note that.. From what I perceive sexual pleasure was created for man... Man was not created for sexual pleasure... and in the realm of a married committed state. A creation of life has a particular time in life when its destined to come.. And if its a hit an miss this is not the time for a soul to enter this world. Orgasims are super eroitc experiences which in comparison in the sensual tangibles cannot be matched..This coming together is a well thought out ritual in regard to the cosmos. No mating, no mankind continued. Its an excellent plan. Thwarting that plan is unhealthy sexual unions that don't produce , add or help to the planet.. Therefore the only meaning they have is unto themselves, which is selfish love masqueraded.
Referring to Suhos's sweet derivatives (sigh)...I think its about discipline in choosing what's is right...too much sweets are really bad for you. And can damage your teeth, health and is not too scale friendly. So abstinence is much better for the visual physical body....Those who are not spiritually disciplined cannot find a peace. Their body dominates the mind instead of the mind dominates the body. Therefore they are always thirsty for what they think will bring them the greatest of pleasures, which is suppose to be a holy family in union with a God. There is no God in a homosexual union. Never will be. Men are suppose to gratify God with their bodies in thoughts, words, and especially deeds.. Per theological circles, the marriage union should emulate the trinity..Three in a union...Man, God, Wife. .All three entities in the trinity love 24 seven in the greatest of mysteries in the most perfect union constantly in motion. In other words its POWERHOUSE of love in orbit..
quote:And if not, if every instance of copulation has resulted in a child, then I feel very sorry for you.
Thanks for trying to feel sorry for me......but because you don't think like me...I don't feel sorry for you...And I really don't feel like I am missing out..on a sexual fantasy of two women...nausea might set in and make me ill. Then I will have green vomit everywhere.
quote:Because it is an expression of love between two people. And what kids will grow up just as "normal" as their parents. How then do you explain the existence of homosexuals at all? How do you explain all the successful, happy, well-adjusted people who did not grow up having a father and a mother?
I just love my betta fish Oscar and I tap his tank everyday to show it I am there.. Yeah..I can express love.
Well..I really wouldn't know if they are truly happy individuals...living in the world in the wrong place like a shoe being on the wrong foot...Yes...I can see they are blissfully happily living in a world that goes against the very grain of their lives...
what is your definition of well adjusted???? That sex going both ways is healthy and good and produces a happy fruitful meaningful life...and either way they will be happy.
Homosexual behavior is a choice...Regardless of their nature...or deep rooted wanna be a woman or man role mentallity.
quote:Oh, and another thought. Since you seem to like using the OT for your arguments, I have a question about what it's like to be part of a plural marriage (polygyny) and considered your husband's property. Is it hard to have to share him with other women on a regular basis? Just wondering is all, since men having multiple wives (and having children by their servants as well - do you have a maid?) is acceptable and common practice in the OT as well.
When have I used OT as an argument here lately?..more often I would use NT scripture..OT laws are fulfilled in the new...The extreme messages in history of the chosen people have relevance in the times to tell the history of a people in their old laws..Bible passage have points of reference to a lesson and also fact of historical value...
Per Scripture...If your hand sins cut it off & if your eye sins gouge it out...Is this to be taken literally? It has a particular lesson in the simplest object of temptation can lead you astray so get rid of it...like a person, friendship..object...etc...because in the seriousness it can be your ruin.
quote:We can enact laws to fight against it for the common moral good of all people. Yup.... just like they do in Iran. Mullah Bush has a bit of a ring to it don't ya think? Good thinking Jade. Almost as good as that pope of yours...who, in a matter of what a year??? manages to wipe out any inter-faith diplomacy your previous leader managed to engender. That current boy of yours is an absolute dolt. And an old dolt at that. Catholics should have a law disbarring old farts from wearing the funny hat. Old farts in the big chair are only interested in speeding up 'the end times' because they know their time is pretty much up and how cool it would be if it all came to a thundering end while they were twiddling the big rosary. Put an alterboy in charge and switch them out when they reach the age of 25. Put somebody in charge who wants to live for a while, someone who can still get an erection...and then you can start talking seriously about a second coming.
What does this have to do with same sex marriage?..if you want to pope bash,Catholic bash... put it on another thread.
Do you think the holy father would put out a comment if in the long run he knew something was brewing?. Believe me...this statement was planned and well thought out and in the end this statement will have a positive effect in the relations with the Islam world...in that they the leaders of the Islamic world came together in peace at the popes residence to speak of non-violence and to promote non-violence. What have you done to promote non-violence...here lately... What other world religions leader has done this... Has Joel Olsteen done it..No..he is just small fry..for you to toast. But that is another subject...I am glad he said what he said and he did not apologize for his statement just that he is sorry the muslims took offense.
quote:Jade - I'm just curious here... You keep talking about laws against gay marriage because of its "immorality". Where on the scale immoral acts do you place it?
Is it as bad as murder? Stealing the life savings of a senior? Raping a 12 year old girl? Executing innocent school children? Kidnapping? Or is it more along the lines of exchanging sexual emails with minors while maintaining a front of a law-abiding (and <gasp> a law-making) citizen? What is morality to you, Jade? Is it simply ideas that have been put forth to you in the Bible and Catechism, preached to you by your clergy? Or does it actually mean something? I consider an immoral act to be flagrant disregard of one's personal liberties - acts of violence, theft - behaviors that cause harm to one's immediate well being and done without willful permission or consent.
Morality is not something the Catholics invented...many who lead secular lives still adhere to moral principles...I am sure you have few you adhere to. Like honor you parents, don't cheat on your wives & husbands, don't have two wives, don't steal what doesn't belong to you, don't accuse someone who you know is innocent, don't have prerverted sex with one, two, three people, including animals.. Does this sound like you? Or have you broken all of them...See... I am sure you practice moral principles. But in regard to the sacred piece of a unique masterpiece in your human body it should be treated and cared for with great integrity, modesty and good intentions...
Giving into the desires of the flesh in any immoral way......damages the soul. So if we give in to the desires of the soul in good conscience we are saving the body uncorrupted.
From: Out on the Sea of Madness... Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 10-06-2006 06:21
quote: jade said:
When have I used OT as an argument here lately?..more often I would use NT scripture..OT laws are fulfilled in the new...The extreme messages in history of the chosen people have relevance in the times to tell the history of a people in their old laws..Bible passage have points of reference to a lesson and also fact of historical value...
Per Scripture...If your hand sins cut it off & if your eye sins gouge it out...Is this to be taken literally? It has a particular lesson in the simplest object of temptation can lead you astray so get rid of it...like a person, friendship..object...etc...because in the seriousness it can be your ruin.
OK, then out of curiousity, please provide chapter and verse of the NT that speaks against homosexuality. Because all the rules against it have always been provided out of the OT.
Jesus spoke of love, and accepting your neighbor, forgiving your enemies. You only seem to be able to judge and speak ill of those who don't conform to your ideal worldview.
quote:Referring to Suhos's sweet derivatives (sigh)...I think its about discipline in choosing what's is right...too much sweets are really bad for you. And can damage your teeth, health and is not too scale friendly. So abstinence is much better for the visual physical body....Those who are not spiritually disciplined cannot find a peace. Their body dominates the mind instead of the mind dominates the body. Therefore they are always thirsty for what they think will bring them the greatest of pleasures, which is suppose to be a holy family in union with a God. There is no God in a homosexual union. Never will be. Men are suppose to gratify God with their bodies in thoughts, words, and especially deeds.. Per theological circles, the marriage union should emulate the trinity..Three in a union...Man, God, Wife. .All three entities in the trinity love 24 seven in the greatest of mysteries in the most perfect union constantly in motion. In other words its POWERHOUSE of love in orbit..
I am in complete and total awe at how you managed to turn a comment on Nutella back into a criticism of homosexuality.
quote:I am in complete and total awe at how you managed to turn a comment on Nutella back into a criticism of homosexuality
.
I never wanted to win...but you know you will always crave whats not really good for you...Who can give up sweets forever? Not many want to. Its real hard. The pleasures of sweets are so satisfying and addicting to the taste buds. But if you detox and fast from sweets the body will no longer crave it. Disclipine in eating habits produces good health in mind, body and spirity. Tasting Nutella is a sweet euphoric experience that only last seconds. Why not try to experience a sweet euphoria that last forever?
quote:
Jade, I dub thee Homophobe.
You have my pity.
Well...I guess if I have to take pity... I will.. At least that is some kind of emotional feeling I will get from you...so I have to take what I can get..
I am not homophobic. Have you entertained homosexuals in your home or have you went to dinner with lesbians? I have. My Catholic sister's best friend is a homosexual. They are everywhere...they are in every workplace, etc...but because I am in their presence does not mean I agree with how they live. An aquaintance I know is having an affair and she knows its wrong, but me telling her to stop and saying its not right will not stop her. All I can do is pray and see if she will come around. It has to be her will, but I can help her will by prayer...so this is the same way I see persons who live sexually contrary to their nature..
quote:I am not homophobic. Have you entertained homosexuals in your home or have you went to dinner with lesbians? I have.
Yep and there was absolutely no problem. Like bigots, they are people after all.
quote:An aquaintance I know is having an affair and she knows its wrong, but me telling her to stop and saying its not right will not stop her. All I can do is pray and see if she will come around. It has to be her will, but I can help her will by prayer...so this is the same way I see persons who live sexually contrary to their nature.
WTF!? she's having an afair and knows it's wrong. Hell no. It's GREAT! She shouldn't let anyone dictate her how she should feel about it. It's HER affair.
quote:I never wanted to win...but you know you will always crave whats not really good for you...Who can give up sweets forever? Not many want to. Its real hard. The pleasures of sweets are so satisfying and addicting to the taste buds.
So... Why did God punished us with the principle of craving? I do not like sweets, as a matter of facts. I am more likely to crave for meat... or cigarettes.
Anyway, the problem is the same. What on Earth did God make us so vulnerable and addicted to pleasure? If I had one and only question to ask Him, it would be the latter.
quote:But if you detox and fast from sweets the body will no longer crave it. Disclipine in eating habits produces good health in mind, body and spirity.
Again, is life really about fighting against natural tendencies? I have given up a long time ago. There are way too many things I have to bother or worry about about in my "real" life not to have one minute left for going against my own nature.
quote:I am not homophobic. Have you entertained homosexuals in your home or have you went to dinner with lesbians? I have. My Catholic sister's best friend is a homosexual. They are everywhere...they are in every workplace, etc...
God save our soul... "They are everywhere", just like rats and ants. And intolerant, ill-educated, ignorant people.
quote:but because I am in their presence does not mean I agree with how they live.
Same goes for anyone else; homosexual or not.
quote:
An aquaintance I know is having an affair and she knows its wrong, but me telling her to stop and saying its not right will not stop her. All I can do is pray and see if she will come around. It has to be her will, but I can help her will by prayer
Considering her behaviour is harming the person she is married to, I can understand your feeling. However, isn't there a moral difference, to you Jade, between having an affair and having a committed, faithful homosexual relationship?
quote]Yep and there was absolutely no problem. Like bigots, they are people after all. [/quote]
poi.. you always project yourself as anti religions on this forum. Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black.. You are guilty of harboring biogory against persons.
quote:OK, then out of curiousity, please provide chapter and verse of the NT that speaks against homosexuality. Because all the rules against it have always been provided out of the OT.
Jesus spoke of love, and accepting your neighbor, forgiving your enemies. You only seem to be able to judge and speak ill of those who don't conform to your ideal worldview.
I am in no position to judge a homosexual or anyone because this is not my place. You are confused by my post in that you think I don't like them. But I am called to share the good news of Jesus in that the Christ is coming to each one of them..He comes to persons in sickness, in sin and in despair. Christians are sent to be evangelical when we leave our Mass. So this is what I do..Those who reject what I proclaim don't have to hear or respond or post back. I do it peacefully without violence..But to say Jesus accepts the behavior of a homosexual act or lifestyle to suit the liberal view of persons own ideology is a lie and those who preach it spread an even greater lie.
Homosexuality is a form of idolatary that takes persons direction away from God.
quote:
The rejection of homosexual behavior that is found in the Old Testament is well known. In Genesis 19, two angels in disguise visit the city of Sodom and are offered hospitality and shelter by Lot. During the night, the men of Sodom demand that Lot hand over his guests for homosexual intercourse. Lot refuses, and the angels blind the men of Sodom. Lot and his household escape, and the town is destroyed by fire "because the outcry against its people has become great before the Lord" (Gen. 19:13).
Confirming this fact is the New Testament?s forceful rejection of homosexual behavior as well. In Romans 1, Paul attributes the homosexual desires of some to a refusal to acknowledge and worship God. He says, "For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. . . . Though they know God?s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them" (Rom. 1:26?28, 32).
Elsewhere Paul again warns that homosexual behavior is one of the sins that will deprive one of heaven: "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 6:9?10, NIV).
Paul comfortingly reminds us, "No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it" (1 Cor. 10:13).
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator?who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
In Romans 1:18-32, still building on the moral traditions of his forebears, but in the new context of the confrontation between Christianity and the pagan society of his day, Paul uses homosexual behaviour as an example of the blindness which has overcome humankind. Instead of the original harmony between Creator and creatures, the acute distortion of idolatry has led to all kinds of moral excess. Paul is at a loss to find a clearer example of this disharmony than homosexual relations. Finally, I Timothy 1, in full continuity with the Biblical position, singles out those who spread wrong doctrine and in verse 10 explicitly names as sinners those who engage in homosexual acts.
Timothy 1
We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law,
9
with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers,
10
the unchaste, practicing homosexuals, 5 kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching,
11
according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.
12
6 I am grateful to him who has strengthened me, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he considered me trustworthy in appointing me to the ministry.
OK, I haven't had time to read the full thread (because it is huge!), but I hope to offer a fresh perspective. Pardon me if it's already been covered.
First, I'm not going to argue about what the Bible says, because there's no point. The nature of any religion is that it is open to interpretation. There's nothing I can say about Christian doctrine that can't be rebutted with an opposite point of view, because religion is too flexible to permit unified agreement.
Anyway, we're talking about the rights of people in America. We are not a nation governed by a single religion, and we are a nation that guarantees freedom of religion, which includes the freedom to choose no religion.
Second, I am gay, and in a happy lesbian relationship of six years and standing. Just for the record and to respond to previous assumptions made, it is a relationship free from recreational drug use, alcohol abuse, or gender confusion. Neither one of us has ever committed a sex crime, neither one of us has ever cheated on each other or any other previous partner.
In case that is important to you.
And now, on with the post...
This argument always turns into a religious battle. The argument made is that gays should not marry because we are an abomination to God. As such, we offend the sanctity of marriage, which is a union before God. If we are permitted to marry, Christians have lost some value in their religion. Note that I'm not trying to interpret the Bible one way or the other; I'm simply relaying the details of that particular side of the argument. As you may imagine, I pay pretty close attention to news about gay marriage, and the argument that gay marriage threatens Christian marriage is always given as the opposition.
I submit that marriage is not a union before God. Marriage has existed since before Christianity. Marriage has been practiced in cultures that are not Christian, nor Jewish, nor any of the major world religions. Gay marriage has existed in history prior to modern times.
And in America, where we are told that gay marriage threatens the value of Christianity, atheists are permitted to marry.
It always gives me pause to take that in. I've never heard anyone argue about atheist rights. I've never heard anyone complain about the atheists, destroying the sanctity of marriage, destroying the value of Christian marriage.
And I think if you can openly admit that marriage is not a Christian institution in this nation, as evidenced by the marital rights of atheists and other non-Christians, there is only one reasonable conclusion:
People who do not want gays to marry are bigots.
Now, probably many of you already know that. But I personally get quite tired of people hiding their bigotry in their religion, as if that is a justification for it. To me, it seems cowardly and manipulative. I am exhausted of hearing "I don't hate gays, but..."
Just admit you hate gays. Really, we'd appreciate the honesty.
Also, not all Christians are like Jade. As I said, religion is a flexible thing.
I never wanted to win...but you know you will always crave whats not really good for you...Who can give up sweets forever? Not many want to. Its real hard. The pleasures of sweets are so satisfying and addicting to the taste buds. But if you detox and fast from sweets the body will no longer crave it. Disclipine in eating habits produces good health in mind, body and spirity. Tasting Nutella is a sweet euphoric experience that only last seconds. Why not try to experience a sweet euphoria that last forever?
OK, stop right there. You can go off on your diatribes and believe whatever you want to believe, but I would appreciate if you didn't make assumptions about me. You know nothing about me. How do you know that I have not experienced this "sweet euphoria that lasts forever"? Only I can know that. It is not for you to judge.
As for the Nutella... for crying out loud it's a joke. I was trying to keep things light. I don't need advice--either dietary or spiritual--from you.
in regard of Kimson's post it seems I misunderstood the term 'affair'. Sorry, in the context of this thread I thought jade meant her friend was dating a person of the same sex. Not that she was cheating anyone.
... sorry I'm French I'm not even to speak English.
shaeon: Touché. Welcome to the Asylum and thanks for the honesty your brought here.
In regards to the following quote from your post, would you please provide some more details? I followed most of what you said in your post, but I would like to know about any examples you are thinking about when you say that marriage has been practiced in cultures that are not ... [part of] any major religion.
quote: shaeon said:
Marriage has been practiced in cultures that are not Christian, nor Jewish, nor any of the major world religions.
Hyperbole - while I do not have specific examples handy, marriage is very much a concept that has spanned essentially all of human societies. The native americans, all manner of asians with no concept of the judeo-christian god, all sorts of african tribal organizations, etc.
In puritan New England, marriage was specifically a governmental affair, removed from the church.
And as shaeon more importantly mentions - the concept of marriage is one that carries on today by all manner of people, including atheists, satanists, homosexuals, pious churchgoers, low-life scumbags, and any and all other manner of person that can be thought of.
The idea that one small segment of our human population should be excluded from this concept based simply on matters of gender, while bandying about the "moral failure" of such a union is just preposterous beyond the ability to be described...
{{edit, just to clarify - hyperbole: that last part is not directed at you, and I am not implying in any way that you are suggesting otherwise....}}
In answer to Hyperbole, most cultures have marital ceremonies. Check out the link below. The article notes:
"In one form or another, marriage is found in virtually every society. The very oldest records that refer to it speak of it as an established custom. Despite attempts by anthropologists to trace its origin (and test the hypothesis of primitive promiscuity), evidence is lacking."
The article also notes that many religions have specific teachings regarding marriage. However (this is my note, not the article's), no single religion specifically owns marriage, nor is it's existance strictly religious in nature.
Thanks for the reference. It is an interesting read.
I agree with you that no one religion owns marriage. I was also interest in the point you made in your previous post about people not objecting to atheists getting married on the grounds that it diminishes the sanctity of marriage.
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 10-08-2006 19:58
Atheistic homosexual polygamists.... I'm sure it's that kind of vision that has Jerry Falwell dropping to his knees. (so-to-speak)
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The goal in Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "holy moly what a ride!"
quote:OK, stop right there. You can go off on your diatribes and believe whatever you want to believe, but I would appreciate if you didn't make assumptions about me. You know nothing about me. How do you know that I have not experienced this "sweet euphoria that lasts forever"? Only I can know that. It is not for you to judge.
As for the Nutella... for crying out loud it's a joke. I was trying to keep things light. I don't need advice--either dietary or spiritual--from you.
Wow...this is the first time I am seeing a different side of you suho...did I hurt your feelings?...I didn't mean too....I get foul language addressed to me. I am cooked and toasted and burned all the time on this forum and it bounces off me..come on... its just a good healthy debate..shucks...I really feel bad..
Yeah I know it was a joke ...just playing around with the Nutella. Was not aiming it at you... just noting in general..sorry.
If I were given an audience of powerful Washington politicians and 30 minutes to make my case, I would give them my atheism argument. We are a country that has progressively tolerated prejudice less and less throughout our history. If I could get anyone to actually listen to me, it would become clear to many that this is just an issue of prejudice.
The only problem is, these days it is very hard to get someone to listen to you. People are so divided in their opinions, and the rules of debate have changed. One politician can now scream at another "you are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!" and that's apparently an acceptable rebuttal. Any teenager in a high school debate class can tell you it's not supposed to be that way, but it happens all the time.
Anyway, considering all of that, many thanks to those of you who did listen to what I had to say.
Wow...this is the first time I am seeing a different side of you suho...did I hurt your feelings?...I didn't mean too....I get foul language addressed to me. I am cooked and toasted and burned all the time on this forum and it bounces off me..come on... its just a good healthy debate..shucks...I really feel bad..
Yeah I know it was a joke ...just playing around with the Nutella. Was not aiming it at you... just noting in general..sorry.
I have no problem with a good healthy debate. I got the impression that you were preaching at me, though, which is something entirely different from a debate. I can take a lot of things, but having people preach at me or condemn me for something when they really know nothing about me is not one of them. This is why I try to avoid doing this to others.
My sensitivity to this comes from my experiences in Korea with "radical" Christians. I've had complete strangers come up to me and tell me what I do or do not believe. Take this conversation, for example:
Complete Stranger: Accept Jesus as your Savior!
Me: Uh, I'm a Christian.
CS: In my experience, a lot of Americans say that they are Christians when they are really not.
Me: In my experience, a lot of Korean Christians are judgmental and jump to conclusions about people they don't know.
CS: ...
I was chased around Shinchon (a university neighborhood) one night by a mob of picket-wielding Christians screaming at me that I was going to Hell, presumably because I was a white guy in Shinchon at night. Maybe it was the earring I was wearing, but I doubt they could see it in that light.
So yeah, I'm a bit sensitive about being judged and preached at. I may not be perfect, but I try to live my life through Christ. And I try my best not to go around judging others. It's hard, because I think it is human nature to judge, but I do my best in Christ.
Don't feel bad, and don't try to make me feel bad for getting offended (yeah, I caught the whole "I get crap slung at me all the time and it doesn't bother me" routine). Like I said, there's a difference between an intellectual debate and preaching at someone. But ultimately there are no hard feelings.
That's way too many words on the subject. I'll leave it alone now.
I get foul language addressed to me. I am cooked and toasted and burned all the time on this forum and it bounces off me..come on... its just a good healthy debate..shucks...
Wow. This is perhaps the most delusional thing you have ever said =)
Oh, and Suho - stop maiking excuses and skirting the issues.
I told you before, and I'll say it again. Your Nutella addiction is sending you straight to hell, and fast. Repent, before it's too late!
From: Out on the Sea of Madness... Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 10-10-2006 23:22
Well, since simple testifying about the glory that is Nutella, perhaps we should take more forceful measures? Sneaking into his house to replace the peanut butter with Nutella could be a start, but we'd have to make sure that he doesn't notice until he has partaken of the holy taste.
If that doesn't work, then we might just have to up the stakes to force him (and other unbelievers) to convert to the Holy Faith of Nutella (HFN for short). Guerrilla attacks, demonstrations burning the unholy and sacriligious peanut butter (it's teh debil!) and petitions to the government to create laws enforcing the worship of Nutella across the land. Lives lived without Nutella are lives lived in sin!
Say it with me now, true believers! PRAISE THE ALMIGHTY HOLY NUTELLA!!!
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Or we could just say forget it and keep all the Nutella for ourselves. The true believers know who's going to heaven and who's going to smother in peanut buttery hell. ;-)
Maybe we could all come together and raise money to buy a satellite so we can broadcast the goodness of Nutella world wide. Bringing word of the sweet treat to the isolated heathens.
My vote is for handing out jars in malls, airports and universities, while singing its holy praises. Strategic airdrops to isolated locales would also bring sufficient exposure to the uneducated heathens. Ooop.... gotta go - it's time to meditate before The Holy Sweetness...
quote:So yeah, I'm a bit sensitive about being judged and preached at. I may not be perfect, but I try to live my life through Christ
Thats right Suho...I can see...don't mean to patronize but your insight has always been very important to this fourm and you are always missed.. Thats why your the Master Suho.
Though to some I seem like a radical Christian...and rough around the edges, sometimes without slimies words come accross as offending... Though I make no believers from this forum, am just part of the mix that makes this site very diversified in beliefs. If we all felt the way the majority expresses themselves, it would be boring. Right?
For me I try to focus daily on compassion though I may not share homosexual sentiments, I believe even they are called by Christ in their nature to follow.
Not trying to preach..but I draw daily from these beautiful words by Christ in the famous " Sermon on the Mount"
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad, for great is your reward in heaven; for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.'"
posted 10-03-2006 20:05
