quote:Jade said: How am I persecuting homosexuals? Am I torturing them?...throwing stones at them. Talking bad about how they treat one another as humans? How am I damaging their reputations? As humans apart from their sexual preferences they are equal to me. I relate to this part of them always.
If you'll go back and look at some of your posts, just your stereotyping alone should show that you do not feel that gays are equal to you. You openly state that we are all depressed, bitter, mentally troubled, addicts, bad parents, and gender confused. That is just untrue.
Note that I haven't made any blanket statements about Christians - because I don't believe stereotyping is right, and because I'm fully aware that not all Christians are the same. But it is hard to respect you, Jade, when you stereotype me while I'm being open-minded enough not to stereotype you.
quote:Jade said: ALL CHRISTIANS SPEAK FOR CHRIST.....This is what Christ told his followers to do. " Anyone who hears you..hears me".
Not all Christians are evangelical. And again, this is because the Bible can be interpreted in many ways, and many Christians do not believe that they are the living word of God. If this is what "Christians" (I'm assuming you mean all Christians when you make these blanket statements?) believe, then are Episcopalians not really Christians? How about theologians who believe that texts in the Bible that condemn homosexuality are being misread and misinterpreted?
quote:Maybe some of you all have or had homosexual tendencies as well or maybe some of you are bi-sexual since I have read so much passion from your post regarding them. Or maybe some have had a homosexual encounter. Who knows. Seems that those who cry the loudest have some issues deep down if you do not profess to act as homosexual.
You and Joseph McCarthy would've gotten along splendidly.
"Don't agree with my witch hunt on homos? You must be a homo, too!"
quote:Seems that those who cry the loudest have some issues deep down if you do not profess to act as homosexual.
As a side note, Jade - In a sense you are correct. However, if you are at all familiar with human psychology and behavior, you will know that it is the people who decry the activity in question, and persecute the people in question, who tend to have the deep-seated issues that they are in strong denial over.
As I alluded to many mnay posts ago in this thread.
The fact that your reaction to homosexuality is so vehement says an awful lot about a deeper conflict within you.
Apologies for veering off topic here, but this caught my eye...
quote:maybe I will burn in hell and maybe I won't. I don't know my fate.
You must be reading a different Bible than the one I have, Jade, because last time I checked it said that we could be certain of our fate. I'm going to assume that you're a little punch drunk from the beating you've been taking here and said that without thinking.
Speaking of taking a beating, may I respectfully suggest that you withdraw from the field of battle? I realize that you believe you are speaking for Christ, but I think it is pretty evident that your attempts at communication are not succeeding. I'm thinking in particular of 2 Timothy 2:24 right now--this thread long ago crossed the line into quarreling.
Ok..Suho..I will withdraw only cause you asked me to and your the Master. And your right..getting no where, but you know it helps me to rant ..because when I rant on I think of faith matters.
In our Christian teachings our church teaches we don't & will never know our fate.
In Protestant teachings they teach already saved because of the crucifixion. Once saved...always saved. Catholic teachings are opposed to this thought.
Regarding the scripture you noted, Suho..do you believe in this very deeply? I do too.
24And the Lord?s servant* must not be quarrelsome but kindly to everyone, an apt teacher, patient, 25correcting opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth, 26and that they may escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.*
Ok.. not trying to preach to anyone...just sharing some of the whys from scriptureon why we believe we do not know our fate. I leave you this and sign off on this post. Thank you all for your responses. Though we differ. I do not condem or judge anyone asn it is not my place.
Scripture teaches that one?s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31?46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to eternal light. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to eternal darkness.
The truth is that in one sense we are all redeemed by Christ?s death on the cross.. all Christians, Jews, Muslims, even animists in the darkest forests (1 Tim. 2:6, 4:10, 1 John 2:2) but our individual appropriation of what Christ provided is contingent on how we respond.
Regarding the issue of whether we Christians have an "absolute" assurance of salvation, regardless of our actions, consider this warning Paul gave us: "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God?s kindness to you, PROVIDED you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26?29, 2 Pet. 2:20?21).
?These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you MAY (Not Do) know that you have eternal life, and that you May continue to believe in the name of the Son of God (1 John 5:13).
The New Testament teaches us that genuine assurance is possible and desirable, but it also warns us that we can be deceived through a false assurance. Jesus declared: ?Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven? (Matt. 7:21)."
But bible only christians do not believe this. They say since Christ already died your a shoe in with your green card into the heavenly gates.
Such an individual was Paul, writing at the end of his life, "I have fought the good fight, (Why does Paul say you have to fight), I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day" (2 Tim. 4:7-8). But earlier in life, even Paul did not claim an infallible assurance, either of his present justification or of his remaining in grace in the future. Concerning his present state, he wrote, "I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified. It is the Lord who judges me (1 Cor. 4:4). This in contrary to what bible christians state. They are their own judges in stating they are already saved by the blood of the cross. Concerning his remaining life, Paul was frank in admitting that even he could fall away: "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27). Of course, for a spiritual giant such as Paul, it would be quite unexpected and out of character for him to fall from God?s grace. Nevertheless, he points out that, however much confidence in his own salvation he may be warranted in feeling, even he cannot be infallibly sure either of his own present state or of his future course.
For example, Philippians 2:12 says, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." This is not the language of self-confident assurance. Our salvation is something that remains to be worked out. Because Paul says we should aways fear as if being afraid we will not merit eternal life. Does this sound like we should know. our fate?
In my faith...we have saints we try to emulate. Not that they felt they were already shoe-ins assured of salvation, because even they were humble about their salvation. If one would of asked Mother Theresa of Calcutta if she was sure she was going straight to heaven..she would of said no, but that she hoped God would forgive her of her failings to the poor as if she did not do enough fo them. We try to emulate her works as a saintly person who tried to do Gods will.
This is our way ..humility...
Just letting you know why our religion thinks this way and I may not have done a very good job of explaining why we are humble about our fate. Just because some may not understand us in our ways of faith.
I understand what you are trying to say regarding salvation. Not all Protestant denominations teach "permanent salvation." I was raised in a denomination that does, but I have since come to question this teaching. But even though I agree with you that we can not know what future state we find ourselves in, it cannot be denied that the Bible makes promises--if we do this, then this will happen--and that one of those promises is salvation. I also disagree with your interpretation of I John 5:13. The word "may" here does not mean "maybe"--it is not an indication of uncertainty, it is an indication of capability. That is, "may" may (can) be replaced with "can." In other words: "I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you can (will be able to) know that you have eternal life."
This could be (and has been, for centuries) argued back and forth, but at the least I think you will agree with me when I say this: God is true to his promises, and if we are faithful then he is faithful.
I have to say, though, that I am glad this is over now. I hope future discussions will be more productive.
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 01-10-2007 03:46
......<lmao>. Helluva shovel you got there. =)
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"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying that I approved of it." Mark Twain
I don't really have anything to add to this post except this jade fellow is a total boner. I know I'm not supposed to make attacks on the people who own up to incredibly stupid opinions, but I don't really care.
posted 10-18-2006 18:02
