Preserved Topic: serial number needed

...hopefully, the fact that this is in the philosophy section results in people not taking me seriously...
but yes, ladies and gentlemen, the topic is piracy for $200.
well, piracy for free, actually.

but anyway, no doubt SOME people here do this. fact of life.
ok, now, about this - do people somehow justify it? does one accept that it is as bad as shoplifting, just easier to commit? what's your stance on this subject, if (hypothetically) you were to be a person who would do this?

___________________
b u n c h a p i x e l s

Justify? Maybe since it's so expensive, but I don't know if that's a valid reason. A ferrari is more expensive than a ford, but far more powerful and beatiful, and (supposedly) much better. If you want something cheap, get psp.

IMHO.

But I _do_ understand why people get it for free. I don't blame them. It's a lot of money.

I personally like to try before I buy. I'm pretty sick of spending many hundreds of dollars on software that I use for a week then decide my other tools work just fine. I'm also one of those freaks that actually registers shareware. My stance is basically if you are making money with it, use it on a regular basis, or can afford it, buy it. It comes in a nice box and with a colorful manual.

A couple of examples, my friend gave me a copy of microsoft visual studio. It sucks. After a week of usage, i decided i hated programming in windows, and i uninstalled it... Should I have paid 1000$ for that privilege? Maybe... but I should have had an option for returning it or selling it. All the work i did during that week was lost also, so maybe that was my karma ripple.

On the other hand, I've bought around 3 linux discs from distributions(even though you can d/l them for free legally off the net, which i've also done) and several manuals even though I could have just referenced them off of web pages.

I'm just spoiled by the amazing amounts of quality freeware on mac/*nix. I'm also stunned by the amazing amounts of horrible commerical software for windows, and the dearth of good shareware/freeware.

A couple of metaphors. You test drive a car before you buy it. You look through books before them. You try on clothes before you buy them etc etc etc... Of course, the reverse also applies, you don't just take a dealers car on a 3 day road trip.

blah blah blah blah blah

I dont really have anyting to add.... anyway.... I would love to get into 3D stuffs but I dont have the $ so i havent gotten into it, although i did just d/l some free thing...
PS.... I got a copy for the mac a long time ago... the real deal baby. for free. verson 3. I would love to upgrade from 5 but i dont wanna spend 200 so i wont.
I got acdSee and used it for a year or so and then registered it.

SO I think it is just wrong to use pirated programs to make $$$. well.... if you are making more than pocket change. But i dunno when it comes to just learning how to use it so you could get a good job.....

PS is cheap compared to the amount of time you spend to learn to use it effectively. Even if you pay tourself $1/hour.

Most of you are operating from the position that what you create in Photoshop makes you money, and from that standpoint I would find it difficult to justify pirating the software. However, for those of you who are using PShop for your own enjoyment, I don't see any reason to pay for its use.

Have you checked the prices on good oil paint lately? Yikes.

Well, I will be honest with you all in the hopes that you continue the respect you have given me.

I was a complete pirate. Anything I could get my hands on I would run. I never resold the programs, and I really didn't make any money from them. However, because of my long term use of professional, fully functional programs like Photoshop, I believe that I was able to get a successful job sooner than if I had waited until college or the like.

Perhaps it seems criminal and unethical to some, but now that I work for a legit company, we shell out thousands of bucks to Adobe each year. It's just my opinion that we shoul let the small fish swim, you know? I can appreciate Bill Gates sending his army of lawyers, etc. after those operations who mass distribute and illegally package his products. Their making milllions... But I really think that individuals, espeically artists and apprentices of this field, should get a break. And truly, it seems that the FBI, the software companies, etc. aren't jumping at the chance to throw a bunch of future honest customers in jail because of their smalltime piracy.

heh - im sure you aint the only one, meta.
hmmm... got me thinking:
1) student pirates PS (for example). gets good. real good. super pretty pictures. gets job with company who only has PSP, and tells them that if they are serious, they should get PS.
2) student cannot afford PS, does not learn PS, never encourages the purchase of PS.

yeah... i would really like to encourage some one to buy me ps6

Zaer, I'll email it to ya

Okay, i realize that it's not good to pirate software, BUT you have to consider that most times, the companies that are selling the sorts of programs that are being pirated are over-charging, because so many corperations buy the things, that they can afford to make such things horrificly expensive..

I myself have pirated at least $125,000± worth of software including 3D-MAX 3.1R, 4 Final, Adobe PS 5.5(my fav.), 6, After Effects 4.1, Flash 4, 5, vecta3D-MAX, and a few other oddities.. My reason(s) why?

A: I don't have a job, and I'm too darn lazy to get one.
B: Its not like I make any money off of such things. Maybe a dollar for service charge; burning a copy for a friend, but that's all.
C: Again, the companys aren't really at a loss. If they were, they wouldn't charge so much.
D: It's not that hard to get ahold of such things, and I know for a fact that it will really help me out in the long run, because it already has. =) *reference to Meta there*


» THOAN.net (..soon to come..I hope)

[This message has been edited by Bmud (edited 05-03-2001).]

Well, I learned Photoshop from a pirated version. Then once I knew how to use it, I ended up getting work for my company (a print shop then) and made them buy it for me, version 2.01 I believe. We upgraded to v.3, and guess who took a copy home with them? I was a pirate again up until I started making money at this independently, at which time I shelled out the $600 for my own copy, (and as fate would have it, I did work for New Riders Press and they sent me another legal copy, so now I had two. Sold it for rent money, heh!) Since then I've been upgrade man, and have forced numerous employers along the way to shell out big bucks for legal copies of everything, which frequently required much arm twisting, heh.) I'm lazy and somewhat disorganized, so I lose my serial numbers for many things, and some apps like HomeSite I've actually purchased several times over the net, go figger. Generally I know that if I use something I will pay, but I can get lazy on just how *soon* I pay, I think most of us have fallen into this cycle a time or three. Now I've gotten much smarter and have all of my passwords written down in my little book, and when I need them I use them for whatever machine I'm on, sometimes not the right machines, but usually. I guess it's a matter of personal ethics; I know what I've paid for, and paid for again, and don't use stolen things if I can't help it. (Example: I've bought Photoshop about a half dozen times, for several companies. If it takes 3 days to get it to me, I already have a warez copy running in the meantime - I've already paid, where's the moral dilemma?)

In general terms, I believe that learning the apps any way you can is good for the manufacturers. But it's not legal. As in many things like this, do what you feel you need to, do it with good intent, and DON'T GET CAUGHT!

On a more specific point, no, I will not give you a serial number for [fill in the blank], and do not want anyone else doing something like this here in the Asylum. (Most of you already know my stance on this, but I'll reiterate.) NO WAREZ IN THE ASYLUM! Except in the Philosophy forum, where just about anything can be discussed, heh.

Your pal, -doc-

I'm not going to go into my stance on warez. I just want to address the issue of the price of software.

As far as Photoshop is concerned, I think it is worth every penny. The same goes with the other apps like 3DS max, maya, and so on. I may be a bit biased because I am a programmer, but a LOT of hard work goes into these things. All you see is the compiled executable that's fits conveniently on a little platter of plastic, but that hardly represents the months of work that went into the products.

Especially products which continue to improve. Photoshop is on version six now, and from what I understand there was a major revision to the code base. This costs money people. And that's not even the whole picture. Adobe at least publishes its own software. Sometimes, after the publisher, the advertising department, the manufacturing departement, and the producer have all taken their cut, there isn't even enough to pay the pizza bill.

Anyway, my point is that the price of 'most' software is very reasonable. IMHO, anyway.

Bmud - i think this is a bit of a case for 'chicken or the egg'...
what happened here?
1) software was too expensive, so people pirated.
2) people pirated, so for every copy of the program, only x% were legally purchased, so software companies had to kick up the prices.

think about it... how are these prices ever going to come down if no one pays for the software?

oh, and i have no problems with you (or anybody) pirating - that would be hypocritical (although i dont own any illegal software atm) - i just want people to question their motives and reasoning. And beware - before you make any generalisations about software companies overcharging, realise that there may be a few software developers in the asylum!
come to think of it, i doubt many people have troubled consciences when pirating Microsoft anything.

doc: mind if you tell us your serial number, here in this forum, so we can philosophize about the implications these numbers have for you?

Jeni, i doubt my FREE email would accept that big of a file.... hehe...

OK, looks like it's time for Photoshop Poker again! Who's in?

I've got a full boat, fives over aces. Read 'em and weep! (Hey wait a minute! I wanna play with my work version, better numbers, heh.)

Your pal, -doc-

I'd stuff it for ya but I only have Stuff-It expander. Anyone know how to make it stuff?
HEHEHEHE

Well, to answer the student needing Photoshop question, I was a student who did need it and got a credit card and bought it at student prices.

Is software expensive? Yup, no question. I personally have no problem with someone "trying" software before buying, I do the same thing. I do have a real problem with people working professionally that don't pay for their software...

Chris

KAIROSinteractive

I guess in some ways I am pretty lucky, I'm a teacher and can also get software from places like journey ed for discounted prices.

I got PS 5.5 and Eyecandy (which now serves as a coaster) together for 300 bucks. Not too shabby.

Generally if I want to try something I'll bogart a copy somewhere. If I like it, then I buy it. I'm not willing to take chances with my money on software that doesn't do what I want. I don't have that much money to start out with.

Well hey hey, i *did* mention that i don't have a job yet right?
when I DO get myself one however, ofcoarse i plan on dishing out 600 bucks to Adobe.. PS is great, and they deserve the mulah. (though i'm not sure i'll do the same with maya.. that sucker is insanely pricely..depends on the job i get) =\

hmm *checks his numbers* ::Three zeros.. two W's.. thats a full house. If i only had a 5, I could make a flush::


» THOAN.net (..soon to come..I hope)

hey, i usualy don't post twice, but does anybody have macromedia director 6.5? that program has to have the funniest 'about this prog. screen' ever.. lol
Okay, i'll shutup now.. the PS serial numbers got my memories flowin..

Yay.... My chance to jump in...

Just some rambling to get you thinking....

The fact being that because PS is the best, if your not going to pay for it (say you looking for a warez program)your going to get the best right. So lets just say all of these people have warez copies of PS. They have a warez copy of PS because they want to learn how to use it. Lets also assume that they don't use it in the profesional industry, or make any money from it. Then these people eventualy end up in the profesional industry and they demand that they have a legal copy of PS regardless of the price. Much like the Doc really, now if this cycle didn't happen(now lets imagine that warez never existed), people would learn to use the lower end and cheaper programs like PSP. The iorny of the situation would be that if there never was a warez version of PS most of us wouldn't be here. Why? Cause the Doc may have never have gotten his job that kick-started his current carrere, thus Ozone may have never existed. Furthermore there would be a heap less toutorials on the net because they wouldn't be in such a high demand, due to that fact that PS would be more on an Elitest thing. I fact i would assume that if no warez existed then their would be a freeware, or Addware Image editing program rather similar to PSP, simply because there would be a high demand for it.

Think about the facts and the prices of both PS and PSP.
Now think about the jobs you see advertised for say your general Web Monkey position.
Most of these positions advertise that you need good PS skills. Now I'm quite sure that a program like PSP would better suit a general Web Design position, especially given the price differences. I firmly believe that the existance of wares to be a major factor in this outcome. It's actualy quite hard to find a warez copy of PSP, trust me on this, I spent several days looking for one about a year and a half back. I can only assume that this is because when most people are going to obtain software illegialy, their going to get the best they can, cause there is no price difference.

So IMHO the existance of warez has greatly helped PhotoShop to dominate the Image Editing & Digital Art Scene. Yes I know that PS is much better than almost any other program. Furthermore, anyone who is being trained in a design course would be taught how to use PS. And many companies would still use PS, but I don't think that Photoshop would be the be-all and end-all of programs used in the professional industry today. There would be a much greater diversity of programs.

Again, just my 2c

Dracusis

>> Hey look my server's back up again, just incayse you were wondering why all of the images I posted seem to be broken over the past 3 or 4 days....

"It's actualy quite hard to find a warez copy of PSP"

Thats because you can d/l it from jasc via a fat pipe for free. All you need is a serial #

Interesting point Drac. With free software, the best quality becomes the standard, with the standard software development model, price influences what becomes the standard. In the case of widely pirated software like Photoshop, it's impossible to know to what extent the pirating actually helps them. But it is an interesting question, because just the knowledge of this phenomenon recursively influences it.

-jiblet

Well.. my PS is a copy which I got for free. Everything on my comnputer is a copy. I don't make any money on it. I just didn't feel like spending over 600 bucks on a software please!!!!!

I recently got Flash 5 for free. I am getting anything that insterest me and make copies of it FOR ME.

There is no way in hell that I would go to the store, spend over 1000 bucks for the Adobe set of programs just so I can send them a registration card. That's crazy!!!! Especially with a programs like LimeWire, Hotline why would you spend your money on something that you can get for free??

Call it wrong, but you asked for opinion so here is mine.

Now, does anyone have Adobe Go-Live I can copy ??? LOL j/k

I drive a Ferrari, I digitally duplicated one while on a test drive and now its mine. Anyboby want a copy?

LOL...

Check out "education" discounts.
My wife is a teacher - they get unreal discounts.

If you have a parent/SO/BF or GF that are in the education
profession, get THEM to buy the product and reimburse them -
you can yoink things usually for under $200.

I'm thinking of "convincing" (hah!) my wife to get
Rhino3D - an $800 product for a cool $150 - free and legal.

Granted, I can't "deploy" or create "commercially" with them,
but that's what employers are for -

My postion:
I don't agree with piracy. There are enough demo versions from just about every program there is. So, I normally use that first before I buy. Or I drop by a friend that has the program in question and try it out. What we are really talking about here is stealing. If you did it in a store, and got caught, you are a criminal. But because it's so easy to do with a computer (and the chance of getting caught is small), many do it. I'm no 'angel' or moral preacher. I am aware that many people 'steal' software. I just feel that it's wrong. If all the people that steal software were to spend an enormous amount of time to create a program, then expect money for their work, just to find out that everybody had 'stole' it, I think maybe attitudes would change a bit.
To ducati: Look. I only commented on your post 'cause it came across as, well, bragging. I think it sends the wrong message. As to the thief part: piracy is stealing, and somebody that steals is a thief. So. And no, I really don't want to send the wrong message here. What you do in your own privacy is your own business. But when you start to tell the world what you do, then expect such responses. I do admire your honesty (because I think that people should be who they are). But not what you do. It's just a matter of opinion. If you really want to know what's on my computer, heh, I don't have a computer. I use one at work. All the programs on that computer are paid for. And so is my work. Would disappoint me greatly to discover that someone had stole my work. Thus, I don't steal the work of others. That's my sense of what honesty is. I don't do to others what I wouldn't want done to me. And as for name calling...douschbag? Why? Because I expressed my opinion? Thought you were honest about what you do. You could bang on me as a killer, childkiller, or other such label because I was in the war. And that would be true. And I can take it. So enough of that. Not really interested in trying to put you down. It's just that you posted that in the photoshop forum, where some new guy was asking about plug-ins, and I think it kinda sent the wrong message. But who am I to talk? It's not my forum. I just like coming here.
And I offer my apology that I posted some of this stuff where it didn't belong. Live and learn. You could do the same.



[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 06-07-2001).]

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 06-07-2001).]

hey you got a copy of vecta3d-max plug-in?
if you need the serial number i can give it to you...and ill email the serial to you ok?

Do we have a deal?

Madnosh: shut up.
Ducati: Please, shut up.

Don't you hate it when people don't read any of the previous posts before jumping in.... Wonder if we'll ever see him around anymore..

Ducati: Do you setal Games too? I mean, you don't make money from the games you play now do you? Sure, they don't cost as much as programs like PS, but as others said, there are other ways to obtain software for cheap. Like getting a student version. Have you ever wondered why the student version is cheaper?? It's so you can learn the program, your not ment to make money from the student version of PS.

If you think that's still too expensive, then mabey you should look into other programs like PSP, I think there are even some freeware graphics apps out there, hell, they may even support plug-ins.

Another point: Paint, Canvas & Brushes are not free. These are all needed for someone to create art (well, if your going to be painting with a brush on canvas that is). There is also ~student~ versions of paints and brushes as well as ~profesional~ versions of the same things, but these cost about 10 times more. For example, A small tube of low quality Prusian Blue Oil Paint may cost about $20 Australian. But if you want the ~really~ kick ass quality version of Prusian Blue paint it'll cost you around $60 Austrailan.

You might be thinking so what, that has nothing to do with software! Well, it does, because your effectivle stealing the expensive tube of paint (Photoshop) cause you don't want the cheap version (student PS or PSP ect ect) but aren't willing to pay for the expensive version.

But don't forget, you could always paint with tamato sauce and your finger (That'd be the free Graphics app) it might not be perfect but at least it's legal.

Although I've rambled on about this somewhat, you do have a point, you might want to express it a little differently next time though. I just think you have the wrong attitude about it. Being so care free about piriting software will only get you burnt here. So, in the future, just keep it to yourself and everyone can be happier.



everybody needs a swamp bear

Amen.

I don't buy the excuse "I don't make any money on it."

It doesn?t matter how you phrase it, stealing is stealing.

Try this scenario:

Someone who is building an "about me" style web site for themselves. It isn't going to cost them anything extra to host because their ISP gave them 5 Megs of web space with their account. They have a basic understanding of HTML and graphics, but really isn't all that good at it. They come across your site and thinks it is perfect. So they save every page and just change some things around and they have their site. You find out, get pissed off and write them, and they respond "Well, I don't make any money on it."

Just my $0.02

I can't believe you guys are even arguing about this shit.


I currently use a pirated copy of photoshop. and I feel not an ounce of guilt. why? I couldn't dish out the money for the full version in my wildest dreams right now.....and I'm not going to let that stop me from using it.

And I couldn't care less what kind of moral restriction any of you would like to impose on people like me.

DL-44, if you had the money, would you buy the full version?

let me put it this way - I will eventually buy it.

The next time I happen to have 600 dollars, I won't send it to adobe.

There are other things in my life that are far more important to me than making sure adobe gets paid......especially since - yes, I'm going to use this - I don't do anything professionally with the software, nor do I distribute it, nor do I frequent warez sites looking for the latest pirated software.

[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 06-23-2001).]

I have to admit there are alot of valid arguments in regards to the piracy of software. I myself took alot of pride in having every single software program I ever wanted. Did I pay for any of them at the time? No.

I was young and curious. Since then, I have pretty much purchased a copy of any proggie that I make money with as well as I buy all my games. I think I appriciate the game more when I shell out 30 - 60 bucks for it.
Now I developed the conviction of not doing it anymore because of my moral beliefs as well as another reason.

I am a record producer and release many CD's off of my label. Now as a result of Napster, I've seen almost all of the stuff I've done on there. Does it make me upset. Yes, but you know what, I did it once apon a time and I understand why. (I was poor, had more time then money so I could just search and copy stuff.)

In the end, I believe that its entirely up to the person. Some people will do it and not think twice about it. Does that make them any less of a person. NO. Others will go and buy the software. I do.

I think the only thing I didnt pay for was my Windows 98. (God forbid Microsoft reads this - like they need the extra 99 bucks.)

anywayz, those are my thoughts on the issue.



wayoutwestenterprises.com

Arr.. gee

Mabey I should have made this stand out more...

" Although I've rambled on about this somewhat, you do have a point, you might want to express it a little differently next time though. I just think you have the wrong attitude about it. Being so care free about piriting software will only get you burnt here. So, in the future, just keep it to yourself and everyone can be happier. "

That was the most important paragraph.

All I was doing was trying to put across a view on warez that i didn't think was coverd too well in this thred yet. I've also argued the other side of this issue earlier in this thred and I'll say it again. Each to their own.


everybody needs a swamp bear

I'm just gonna *have* to assume that this thing has run it's course.......and do my administrative duty (and the world a favor) by closing it.....

if anyone's crotch get's twisted by this action, feel free to start a new pointless argument